What are the chances we land Tim Miles from SJSU? Seems like he has not been extremely impressive and many people on this board have deemed him Mark Fox 2.0. Is there any chance we end up with him? Thoughts?
Tim Miles? Please no
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Last: 1 yr ago by Cabin14
I sure hope not, but this being Cal…. If that happens, they can count on continued non support of men's basketball. I'd take Pasternak, but really, I would love to go back in time and see Cal hire DeCuire after Montgomery. Sure, not as flashy as Martin, but probably better for the program in the long run. Of course, the next point to go to would be not hiring Knowlton…
Pasternack should be our "floor". We can pencil him in and keep looking around for better. Any competent AD would have been going through the process for months now. Clean house next week and have somebody new before the end of March.
Wow, it's already March. Now I'm getting nervous that this is going to get screwed up again. But hell, even a chimpanzee could hire Pasternack, because he's right there waiting for the offer... and would at least be a vast improvement.
I can tell you one horrifying fact - Knowlton has a "good feeling" about Miles.
Econ141 said:
I can tell you one horrifying fact - Knowlton has a "good feeling" about Miles.
Feels really comfortable with him.
My gut says that Pasternack leaves UCSB but ends up somewhere besides Cal.Big C said:
Pasternack should be our "floor". We can pencil him in and keep looking around for better. Any competent AD would have been going through the process for months now. Clean house next week and have somebody new before the end of March.
Wow, it's already March. Now I'm getting nervous that this is going to get screwed up again. But hell, even a chimpanzee could hire Pasternack, because he's right there waiting for the offer... and would at least be a vast improvement.
BeachedBear said:My gut says that Pasternack leaves UCSB but ends up somewhere besides Cal.Big C said:
Pasternack should be our "floor". We can pencil him in and keep looking around for better. Any competent AD would have been going through the process for months now. Clean house next week and have somebody new before the end of March.
Wow, it's already March. Now I'm getting nervous that this is going to get screwed up again. But hell, even a chimpanzee could hire Pasternack, because he's right there waiting for the offer... and would at least be a vast improvement.
Even if we get in there first with an offer? I thought Cal was his dream job, especially with his relationship to major donors. His "desirability profile" would seem to fit ours.
Became slightly more worried when the SF Chronicle started singing his praises and specifically mentioned us as a landing spot for him
It would take a special level of fool to hire an exact replica of what failed here: a coach who couldn't cut it at the power conference level, went ~.500 at another non-basketball school, was unemployed for a year or two because no program wanted him, and is generally "respected" in the coaching community
I doubt we make him our priority but it would be especially disappointing if we end up with him. We'd be such failures at that point
Quote:
Best known for resuscitating disastrous programs at the NAIA, Division II, mid-major Division I and high-major D-I levels, Miles has earned his "Coach FEMA" nickname. Perhaps it would be fitting, then, for him to head to Berkeley.
It would take a special level of fool to hire an exact replica of what failed here: a coach who couldn't cut it at the power conference level, went ~.500 at another non-basketball school, was unemployed for a year or two because no program wanted him, and is generally "respected" in the coaching community
I doubt we make him our priority but it would be especially disappointing if we end up with him. We'd be such failures at that point
He has 18 wins at sjs, a hard place to win at. He is better than foxeastcoastcal said:
Became slightly more worried when the SF Chronicle started singing his praises and specifically mentioned us as a landing spot for himQuote:
Best known for resuscitating disastrous programs at the NAIA, Division II, mid-major Division I and high-major D-I levels, Miles has earned his "Coach FEMA" nickname. Perhaps it would be fitting, then, for him to head to Berkeley.
It would take a special level of fool to hire an exact replica of what failed here: a coach who couldn't cut it at the power conference level, went ~.500 at another non-basketball school, was unemployed for a year or two because no program wanted him, and is generally "respected" in the coaching community
I doubt we make him our priority but it would be especially disappointing if we end up with him. We'd be such failures at that point
Go Bears!
I do think he is better than Fox. My 'exact replica' comment was hyperbole. But cmon, a guy who was .500 at another "tough to win at" power school, got fired after a long tenure there, was unemployed for a couple years.. there are similarities.oskidunker said:He has 18 wins at sjs, a hard place to win at. He is better than foxeastcoastcal said:
Became slightly more worried when the SF Chronicle started singing his praises and specifically mentioned us as a landing spot for himQuote:
Best known for resuscitating disastrous programs at the NAIA, Division II, mid-major Division I and high-major D-I levels, Miles has earned his "Coach FEMA" nickname. Perhaps it would be fitting, then, for him to head to Berkeley.
It would take a special level of fool to hire an exact replica of what failed here: a coach who couldn't cut it at the power conference level, went ~.500 at another non-basketball school, was unemployed for a year or two because no program wanted him, and is generally "respected" in the coaching community
I doubt we make him our priority but it would be especially disappointing if we end up with him. We'd be such failures at that point
Plus last year, 1-17 in conference? This year improved to 9-8 in conference and certainly impressive given SJS is not easy to win at. But it would really be a poor hire. To be clear, I doubt we are targeting him at all, but I do think on some level it is concerning that both ESPN and the SF Chronicle have explicitly mentioned him for our role.
Edit: I think Big C's comment above is really good. Pasternack should be our default target. His connection to Cal + recruiting acumen + HC winning experience make him someone we should set as our initial target. If somehow there is a new candidate who appears and lands in our lap, we can take a look at that. Maybe the day after the Pac-12 tournament, Coach K decides he is bored with retirement and is looking for a fresh challenge!
eastcoastcal said:I do think he is better than Fox. My 'exact replica' comment was hyperbole. But cmon, a guy who was .500 at another "tough to win at" power school, got fired after a long tenure there, was unemployed for a couple years.. there are similarities.oskidunker said:He has 18 wins at sjs, a hard place to win at. He is better than foxeastcoastcal said:
Became slightly more worried when the SF Chronicle started singing his praises and specifically mentioned us as a landing spot for himQuote:
Best known for resuscitating disastrous programs at the NAIA, Division II, mid-major Division I and high-major D-I levels, Miles has earned his "Coach FEMA" nickname. Perhaps it would be fitting, then, for him to head to Berkeley.
It would take a special level of fool to hire an exact replica of what failed here: a coach who couldn't cut it at the power conference level, went ~.500 at another non-basketball school, was unemployed for a year or two because no program wanted him, and is generally "respected" in the coaching community
I doubt we make him our priority but it would be especially disappointing if we end up with him. We'd be such failures at that point
Plus last year, 1-17 in conference? This year improved to 9-8 in conference and certainly impressive given SJS is not easy to win at. But it would really be a poor hire. To be clear, I doubt we are targeting him at all, but I do think on some level it is concerning that both ESPN and the SF Chronicle have explicitly mentioned him for our role.
Edit: I think Big C's comment above is really good. Pasternack should be our default target. His connection to Cal + recruiting acumen + HC winning experience make him someone we should set as our initial target. If somehow there is a new candidate who appears and lands in our lap, we can take a look at that. Maybe the day after the Pac-12 tournament, Coach K decides he is bored with retirement and is looking for a fresh challenge!
Thank you, eastcoastcal. At least for optics sake, we need to go in a different direction. I'm pretty unfamiliar with Miles. Does he at least have a more charismatic personality than our dour Fox? What did he do to improve the team this season? Recruit actual players?
oskidunker said:He has 18 wins at sjs, a hard place to win at. He is better than foxeastcoastcal said:
Became slightly more worried when the SF Chronicle started singing his praises and specifically mentioned us as a landing spot for himQuote:
Best known for resuscitating disastrous programs at the NAIA, Division II, mid-major Division I and high-major D-I levels, Miles has earned his "Coach FEMA" nickname. Perhaps it would be fitting, then, for him to head to Berkeley.
It would take a special level of fool to hire an exact replica of what failed here: a coach who couldn't cut it at the power conference level, went ~.500 at another non-basketball school, was unemployed for a year or two because no program wanted him, and is generally "respected" in the coaching community
I doubt we make him our priority but it would be especially disappointing if we end up with him. We'd be such failures at that point
A very low bar indeed. If Fox continues coaching I think it will be somewhere similar, but probably further east.
Afghanistan?calumnus said:
A very low bar indeed. If Fox continues coaching I think it will be somewhere similar, but probably further east.
I'll respectfully disagree with the other posters. I'd prefer Miles over Fox. I watched Miles at Nebraska and his teams played hard even when they didn't necessarily play well. Fred Hoiberg, who replaced Miles, hasn't been a marked improvement, and he came highly touted from Iowa State. My caveat would be this: low base, big incentives. A coach that wins three games should be paid accordingly.
I'd be good with Miles.
I'd be good with Miles.
With all due respect, SFB, can't what you just said be also applied to Fox? The players have played hard this season, despite not playing well. I do think Miles is better than Fox, but do we really need to run back the experiment of hiring a coach who failed at the power conference level?SoFlaBear said:
I'll respectfully disagree with the other posters. I'd prefer Miles over Fox. I watched Miles at Nebraska and his teams played hard even when they didn't necessarily play well. Fred Hoiberg, who replaced Miles, hasn't been a marked improvement, and he came highly touted from Iowa State. My caveat would be this: low base, big incentives. A coach that wins three games should be paid accordingly.
I'd be good with Miles.
Personally (and I respect your opinion), if we hire Miles I will pretty much lose all faith in our basketball program.
SoFlaBear said:
I'll respectfully disagree with the other posters. I'd prefer Miles over Fox. I watched Miles at Nebraska and his teams played hard even when they didn't necessarily play well. Fred Hoiberg, who replaced Miles, hasn't been a marked improvement, and he came highly touted from Iowa State. My caveat would be this: low base, big incentives. A coach that wins three games should be paid accordingly.
I'd be good with Miles.
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Fox can take a long walk off a short pier but getting close to 20 wins at San Jose is no joke.
Strykur said:
Fox can take a long walk off a short pier but getting close to 20 wins at San Jose is no joke.
It is the Moutain West not the Big West. They are in 5th place. Utah State has 24 wins, New Mexico has 21.
Yeah but San Jose State has its most wins in a season since 1980 (when it was in the PCAA).calumnus said:It is the Moutain West not the Big West. They are in 5th place. Utah State has 24 wins.Strykur said:
Fox can take a long walk off a short pier but getting close to 20 wins at San Jose is no joke.
Good God....You have to be kidding....While I would not be surprised if JK did something as idiotic as this, I also would be totally against it....That would be another extremely lazy hire....
Re: The height of the bar. It's the bar we have. That is what we have to judge against - a Coach who came with a good-ish reputation who is being paid 7 figures and who can't win.calumnus said:SoFlaBear said:
I'll respectfully disagree with the other posters. I'd prefer Miles over Fox. I watched Miles at Nebraska and his teams played hard even when they didn't necessarily play well. Fred Hoiberg, who replaced Miles, hasn't been a marked improvement, and he came highly touted from Iowa State. My caveat would be this: low base, big incentives. A coach that wins three games should be paid accordingly.
I'd be good with Miles.
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Miles is infectiously positive. At Nebraska, he recruited decently at a school with better facilities (Pinnacle Bank Arena is a near - professional level facility) in a better (these days, anyway) basketball conference. But also at a school that is really difficult to recruit for basketball. In the region, Nebraska has to compete with Creighton, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State.
I enjoyed watching Miles' teams. I didn't enjoy watching Fox's team, and apparently neither did more than ~ 2,200 fans per game. I stand by my assertion that Miles would be an improvement - being defined as drawing more than ~2,200 fans per game and winning more than three games. I also stand by my assertion that whomever we hire should be contracted on the basis of a low, low base and incentives tied to numerous factors - wins, NIT/NCCA appearances, team GPA, and attendance.
That said, I don't disagree that there are many assistants, HCs at mid-majors, minors, and high schools who could do a better job than Fox. The questions are these: a) will Knowlton (who sees this bad program in terms of "it still made money") actually do anything and b) will he be smart enough not to hire a washed-up major school coach for 7 figures base figuring that "this one will turn the program around."
At least you wrote "with all due respect" instead of "bless your heart."eastcoastcal said:With all due respect, SFB, can't what you just said be also applied to Fox? The players have played hard this season, despite not playing well. I do think Miles is better than Fox, but do we really need to run back the experiment of hiring a coach who failed at the power conference level?SoFlaBear said:
I'll respectfully disagree with the other posters. I'd prefer Miles over Fox. I watched Miles at Nebraska and his teams played hard even when they didn't necessarily play well. Fred Hoiberg, who replaced Miles, hasn't been a marked improvement, and he came highly touted from Iowa State. My caveat would be this: low base, big incentives. A coach that wins three games should be paid accordingly.
I'd be good with Miles.
Personally (and I respect your opinion), if we hire Miles I will pretty much lose all faith in our basketball program.
I enjoyed watching Miles' teams at Nebraska, whereas I haven't enjoyed watching Fox's teams. All I can tell you is that, at that level, I'd be open to it. "Fun to watch" goes a long way with me.
We aren't getting Randy Bennett. I take that as a given. As I said in another post, whoever we would get to replace Fox should be hired on a low base/high incentive package type contract. I'd be open to giving Cuonzo Martin another shot. I'd be open to Miles. I'd be open to going after a hungry assistant or mid-major HC.
It's absolutely insane that that we are even discussing Tim Miles as a potential candidate.
Tim Miles is a 56 year old coach that has never won an NCAA Tournament game and has exactly 2 Tournament appearances in 17 years of D1 coaching.
He has never finished higher than 4th in his conference at both Colorado State and Nebraska. Yes, those places are tough to win, especially Nebraska, and his two 4th place finishes in the Big Ten were very solid. But outside of those two 4th place conference finishes, his other conference finishes at Nebraska were 10th, 12th, 11th, 12th and 13th.
This year at San Jose St is a nice little story but let's not pretend the goal is just to find an upgrade over Fox. That is such a low bar that at this point literally almost any head coach in the country and probably the key assistant for most programs would be an upgrade over Fox.
At this point Tim Miles' resume is a lot closer to Fox's resume than it is to any recent Cal coach that found success here. In fact his resume may even be worse than Fox's resume. The Montgomery situation was obviously unique but Cuonzo Martin at least won a conference title at Missouri State before finishing 2nd, 5th, and 4th in his three seasons in the SEC at Tennessee, including a Sweet 16 run. Ben Braun won his conference 3 times at Eastern Michigan and won games in multiple NCAA tournament appearances including reaching the Sweet 16.
I can't believe this is where we find ourselves. If there are any major donors that waste their time on this site, please do anything and everything in your power to make sure we don't do something dumb like hire Tim Miles.
Tim Miles is a 56 year old coach that has never won an NCAA Tournament game and has exactly 2 Tournament appearances in 17 years of D1 coaching.
He has never finished higher than 4th in his conference at both Colorado State and Nebraska. Yes, those places are tough to win, especially Nebraska, and his two 4th place finishes in the Big Ten were very solid. But outside of those two 4th place conference finishes, his other conference finishes at Nebraska were 10th, 12th, 11th, 12th and 13th.
This year at San Jose St is a nice little story but let's not pretend the goal is just to find an upgrade over Fox. That is such a low bar that at this point literally almost any head coach in the country and probably the key assistant for most programs would be an upgrade over Fox.
At this point Tim Miles' resume is a lot closer to Fox's resume than it is to any recent Cal coach that found success here. In fact his resume may even be worse than Fox's resume. The Montgomery situation was obviously unique but Cuonzo Martin at least won a conference title at Missouri State before finishing 2nd, 5th, and 4th in his three seasons in the SEC at Tennessee, including a Sweet 16 run. Ben Braun won his conference 3 times at Eastern Michigan and won games in multiple NCAA tournament appearances including reaching the Sweet 16.
I can't believe this is where we find ourselves. If there are any major donors that waste their time on this site, please do anything and everything in your power to make sure we don't do something dumb like hire Tim Miles.
This thread is sad.
Sounds like Miles is the perfect candidate to someone like Knowlton: an uninspired and uninspiring choice who might achieve a .500 record to keep the alumni quiet and not anger the faculty.DonnieMcCleskey said:
It's absolutely insane that that we are even discussing Tim Miles as a potential candidate.
Tim Miles is a 56 year old coach that has never won an NCAA Tournament game and has exactly 2 Tournament appearances in 17 years of D1 coaching.
He has never finished higher than 4th in his conference at both Colorado State and Nebraska. Yes, those places are tough to win, especially Nebraska, and his two 4th place finishes in the Big Ten were very solid. But outside of those two 4th place conference finishes, his other conference finishes at Nebraska were 10th, 12th, 11th, 12th and 13th.
This year at San Jose St is a nice little story but let's not pretend the goal is just to find an upgrade over Fox. That is such a low bar that at this point literally almost any head coach in the country and probably the key assistant for most programs would be an upgrade over Fox.
At this point Tim Miles' resume is a lot closer to Fox's resume than it is to any recent Cal coach that found success here. In fact his resume may even be worse than Fox's resume. The Montgomery situation was obviously unique but Cuonzo Martin at least won a conference title at Missouri State before finishing 2nd, 5th, and 4th in his three seasons in the SEC at Tennessee, including a Sweet 16 run. Ben Braun won his conference 3 times at Eastern Michigan and won games in multiple NCAA tournament appearances including reaching the Sweet 16.
I can't believe this is where we find ourselves. If there are any major donors that waste their time on this site, please do anything and everything in your power to make sure we don't do something dumb like hire Tim Miles.
Bobodeluxe said:
A possible new name to add to the list!
Good Gawd, what a moron, but actually reminds me of Knowlton and is the type of coach he would bring to Berkeley after he gets run out of Lubbock.
Tim miles would be worse than fox. No upside. Bfd about sjsu and one ok year (which is still incomplete)
What about rec league coaches? I'm sure there are many of those that could do a better job coaching than Fox.
Not only that, but "Better than Fox" is a bar that Tim Miles doesn't clear. He has fewer 20-won seasons in his coaching career than Fox. Miles' coaching career is a not-quite-as-good version of Fox's, if you can believe that.calumnus said:
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Hard pass.
BearSD said:Not only that, but "Better than Fox" is a bar that Tim Miles doesn't clear. He has fewer 20-won seasons in his coaching career than Fox. Miles' coaching career is a not-quite-as-good version of Fox's, if you can believe that.calumnus said:
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Hard pass.
Miles is definitely a better coach, smarter, better people person (though both have similar in game personas-ugh) but Fox has had better opportunities at every step, including now. Cal is a MUCH better program historically than San Jose State. Fox just handed us the worst season in Cal history, the worst in the entire country. I am sure they are out there, but there is zero evidence ANYONE is a worse coach. The coach at UCSD makes $70,000 a year, faces tougher admission standards, buy out coached Fox in their win over Cal.
Again, a huge NO to both. We can do much better.
The comparison isn't Cal/SJSU, it'scalumnus said:BearSD said:Not only that, but "Better than Fox" is a bar that Tim Miles doesn't clear. He has fewer 20-won seasons in his coaching career than Fox. Miles' coaching career is a not-quite-as-good version of Fox's, if you can believe that.calumnus said:
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Hard pass.
Miles is definitely a better coach, smarter, better people person (though both have similar in game personas-ugh) but Fox has had better opportunities at every step, including now. Cal is a MUCH better program historically than San Jose State. Fox just handed us the worst season in Cal history, the worst in the entire country. I am sure they are out there, but there is zero evidence ANYONE is a worse coach. The coach at UCSD makes $70,000 a year, faces tougher admission standards, buy out coached Fox in their win over Cal.
Again, a huge NO to both. We can do much better.
Colorado State (Miles) / Nevada (Fox) followed by
Nebraska (Miles) / Georgia (Fox)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tim-miles-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/mark-fox-1.html
At any rate, we agree that Fox should be out and Miles should not be in.
We have miles to go before we are good again.BearSD said:The comparison isn't Cal/SJSU, it'scalumnus said:BearSD said:Not only that, but "Better than Fox" is a bar that Tim Miles doesn't clear. He has fewer 20-won seasons in his coaching career than Fox. Miles' coaching career is a not-quite-as-good version of Fox's, if you can believe that.calumnus said:
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Hard pass.
Miles is definitely a better coach, smarter, better people person (though both have similar in game personas-ugh) but Fox has had better opportunities at every step, including now. Cal is a MUCH better program historically than San Jose State. Fox just handed us the worst season in Cal history, the worst in the entire country. I am sure they are out there, but there is zero evidence ANYONE is a worse coach. The coach at UCSD makes $70,000 a year, faces tougher admission standards, buy out coached Fox in their win over Cal.
Again, a huge NO to both. We can do much better.
Colorado State (Miles) / Nevada (Fox) followed by
Nebraska (Miles) / Georgia (Fox)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tim-miles-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/mark-fox-1.html
At any rate, we agree that Fox should be out and Miles should not be in.
Go Bears!
BearSD said:The comparison isn't Cal/SJSU, it'scalumnus said:BearSD said:Not only that, but "Better than Fox" is a bar that Tim Miles doesn't clear. He has fewer 20-won seasons in his coaching career than Fox. Miles' coaching career is a not-quite-as-good version of Fox's, if you can believe that.calumnus said:
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Hard pass.
Miles is definitely a better coach, smarter, better people person (though both have similar in game personas-ugh) but Fox has had better opportunities at every step, including now. Cal is a MUCH better program historically than San Jose State. Fox just handed us the worst season in Cal history, the worst in the entire country. I am sure they are out there, but there is zero evidence ANYONE is a worse coach. The coach at UCSD makes $70,000 a year, faces tougher admission standards, buy out coached Fox in their win over Cal.
Again, a huge NO to both. We can do much better.
Colorado State (Miles) / Nevada (Fox) followed by
Nebraska (Miles) / Georgia (Fox)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tim-miles-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/mark-fox-1.html
At any rate, we agree that Fox should be out and Miles should not be in.
Miles' later teams at Colorado State, Nebraska and San Jose are all better than his early teams. His best teams at Colorado State are years 4 and 5 (of 5), his best years at Nebraska are years 6 and 7 (of 7), his best year at San Jose State is now Year 2 of 2. His teams improve over time, glacially, and not enough, but they improve.
Mark Fox's best team's were 3 of 5 at Nevada, 2 of 9 at Georgia and 1 of 4 at Cal. He comes in and pushes the existing players to play tough defense and gets an immediate bump and then generally coasts downhill from there. He is just not a good coach, but is a world class excuse maker including sanctimoniously complaining about everyone else cheating while Georgia boosters continued to do what Georgia boosters do. At Cal his excuse making has been epic and he is salting the ground with the "it is impossible to win at Cal" propaganda which many buy despite Cal earning a 4 seed and finishing ranked in recent memory.
Let's make it easy, compare the Fox tenure in Berkeley to what Miles has done in less than 2 seasons in San Jose, not even in the same universe.calumnus said:Miles' later teams at Colorado State, Nebraska and San Jose are all better than his early teams. His best teams at Colorado State are years 4 and 5 (of 5), his best years at Nebraska are years 6 and 7 (of 7), his best year at San Jose State is now Year 2 of 2. His teams improve over time, glacially, and not enough, but they improve.BearSD said:The comparison isn't Cal/SJSU, it'scalumnus said:BearSD said:Not only that, but "Better than Fox" is a bar that Tim Miles doesn't clear. He has fewer 20-won seasons in his coaching career than Fox. Miles' coaching career is a not-quite-as-good version of Fox's, if you can believe that.calumnus said:
"Better than Fox" is an incredibly low bar.
Fox has Cal with the lowest winning percentage in the country. There are literally over 360 coaches with better winning percentages, and that is just the head coaches. Probably another 100 top assistants are better too. I know the coach at SFCC would be better, pobsbly some high school coaches as well.
Please, not Miles. We are in a huge hole, need an injection of excitement and he will not move the needle.
Hard pass.
Miles is definitely a better coach, smarter, better people person (though both have similar in game personas-ugh) but Fox has had better opportunities at every step, including now. Cal is a MUCH better program historically than San Jose State. Fox just handed us the worst season in Cal history, the worst in the entire country. I am sure they are out there, but there is zero evidence ANYONE is a worse coach. The coach at UCSD makes $70,000 a year, faces tougher admission standards, buy out coached Fox in their win over Cal.
Again, a huge NO to both. We can do much better.
Colorado State (Miles) / Nevada (Fox) followed by
Nebraska (Miles) / Georgia (Fox)
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tim-miles-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/mark-fox-1.html
At any rate, we agree that Fox should be out and Miles should not be in.
Mark Fox's best team's were 3 of 5 at Nevada, 2 of 9 at Georgia and 1 of 4 at Cal. He comes in and pushes the existing players to play tough defense and gets an immediate bump and then generally coasts downhill from there. He is just not a good coach, but is a world class excuse maker including sanctimoniously complaining about everyone else cheating while Georgia boosters continued to do what Georgia boosters do. At Cal his excuse making has been epic and he is salting the ground with the "it is impossible to win at Cal" propaganda which many buy despite Cal earning a 4 seed and finishing ranked in recent memory.
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