Is Pasternack good at the basketball aspect of coaching?

11,989 Views | 107 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by BearyWhite
sluggo
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So I watched UCSB beat UCR 92-87 last night. I think the game answered some questions about Pasternack and raised some others. I realize it was only one game, and I hope to learn more today and in the NCAA tournament if UCSB wins today.

Offense: A critique of Pasternack was that his teams played at a slow pace and did not take many 3s. In this game they did not run the ball up, but they attacked immediately. And they shot every open 3 and went 8 for 15. So neither was an issue, at least last night. They shot 57% overall. The team shared the ball and had good spacing. For those like me who like structure, they had one early action, which they did well, then it was mostly one-on-one with on ball screening and little off the ball. Which is typical, but not great. It will be interesting if they have more against better competition.

Defense: Cal constantly hiring "great" defensive coaches has made me not care so much about defense. But UCSB's defense was bad. Over helping to give up easy 3s, under helping and allowing easy shots around the basket, constant, stupid fouling to keep UCR in the game. I also did not like that they hedged and recovered on every pick-and-roll. So the offense knew exactly what they would do and could attack it. If you are bad at aggressive man-to-man, you should play something else. I understand why UCSB is lowly ranked defensively.

Players: I really liked Norris, a forward with a face up game, and Pierre-Louis, an ultra quick guard who does not shoot great. Both are seniors and could maybe come as grad transfers. The announcers could not stop talking about sophomore Ajay Mitchell. He is a good player, a left-handed combo guard who can finish with either hand. But he is not great. He is a career 30% shooter from 3 and just an okay athlete. Of course Cal would take him, and he is an upgrade over Askew, but not by as much as I would have thought.

Overall: I like UCR's coach Magpayo. Pasternack? There are reasons to hire him but they are not on the basketball side.
Bobodeluxe
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sluggo said:

So I watched UCSB beat UCR 92-87 last night. I think the game answered some questions about Pasternack and raised some others. I realize it was only one game, and I hope to learn more today and in the NCAA tournament if UCSB wins today.

Offense: A critique of Pasternack was that his teams played at a slow pace and did not take many 3s. In this game they did not run the ball up, but they attacked immediately. And they shot every open 3 and went 8 for 15. So neither was an issue, at least last night. They shot 57% overall. The team shared the ball and had good spacing. For those like me who like structure, they had one early action, which they did well, then it was mostly one-on-one with on ball screening and little off the ball. Which is typical, but not great. It will be interesting if they have more against better competition.

Defense: Cal constantly hiring "great" defensive coaches has made me not care so much about defense. But UCSB's defense was bad. Over helping to give up easy 3s, under helping and allowing easy shots around the basket, constant, stupid fouling to keep UCR in the game. I also did not like that they hedged and recovered on every pick-and-roll. So the offense knew exactly what they would do and could attack it. If you are bad at aggressive man-to-man, you should play something else. I understand why UCSB is lowly ranked defensively.

Players: I really liked Norris, a forward with a face up game, and Pierre-Louis, an ultra quick guard who does not shoot great. Both are seniors and could maybe come as grad transfers. The announcers could not stop talking about sophomore Ajay Mitchell. He is a good player, a left-handed combo guard who can finish with either hand. But he is not great. He is a career 30% shooter from 3 and just an okay athlete. Of course Cal would take him, and he is an upgrade over Askew, but not by as much as I would have thought.

Overall: I like UCR's coach Magpayo. Pasternack? There are reasons to hire him but they are not on the basketball side.

Heretic! Away with you! How dare you question the narrative?
4thGenCal
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sluggo said:

So I watched UCSB beat UCR 92-87 last night. I think the game answered some questions about Pasternack and raised some others. I realize it was only one game, and I hope to learn more today and in the NCAA tournament if UCSB wins today.

Offense: A critique of Pasternack was that his teams played at a slow pace and did not take many 3s. In this game they did not run the ball up, but they attacked immediately. And they shot every open 3 and went 8 for 15. So neither was an issue, at least last night. They shot 57% overall. The team shared the ball and had good spacing. For those like me who like structure, they had one early action, which they did well, then it was mostly one-on-one with on ball screening and little off the ball. Which is typical, but not great. It will be interesting if they have more against better competition.

Defense: Cal constantly hiring "great" defensive coaches has made me not care so much about defense. But UCSB's defense was bad. Over helping to give up easy 3s, under helping and allowing easy shots around the basket, constant, stupid fouling to keep UCR in the game. I also did not like that they hedged and recovered on every pick-and-roll. So the offense knew exactly what they would do and could attack it. If you are bad at aggressive man-to-man, you should play something else. I understand why UCSB is lowly ranked defensively.

Players: I really liked Norris, a forward with a face up game, and Pierre-Louis, an ultra quick guard who does not shoot great. Both are seniors and could maybe come as grad transfers. The announcers could not stop talking about sophomore Ajay Mitchell. He is a good player, a left-handed combo guard who can finish with either hand. But he is not great. He is a career 30% shooter from 3 and just an okay athlete. Of course Cal would take him, and he is an upgrade over Askew, but not by as much as I would have thought.

Overall: I like UCR's coach Magpayo. Pasternack? There are reasons to hire him but they are not on the basketball side.

Always like your blunt opinions and thus no hedging! Tough assessment (and as you clearly said based on the one game watched and vs a team playing for the 3rd time in less than 3 months). Would be interesting if the bar posters have - for must have qualities in a HC, are applied as well to their significant other?. Joe wins - that is the defining bar to have - 131-52 at UCSB (4 of 5, 21+ winning seasons).and took over the program at near current Cal basketball levels. As a very well known former HC said to me this week "What matters is that his teams win. They do an excellent job of scouting to take away their opponents strengths. His teams can score, but they rely on their defense to win or put themselves in the position to win. He has a # of guys each year who can score on the block, which you need, can knock down 3's or create at the end of the shot clock . That is call efficiency. Do you want a team that looks good or passes the eye test, or wins. Pretty simple to me". And yes JP also brings other key reasons to the table that are critical to winning at Cal. Mitchell would certainly be an upgrade at pt at Cal and yes He would follow JP.
6956bear
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sluggo said:

4thGenCal said:

bluesaxe said:

sluggo said:

I hav read many times that Cal has to hire Pasternack. Mostly it is because he will bring in donors, he is a good recruiter, and he "knows" Cal and it is his dream to coach at Cal. And that he has a good record, although he is coaching against very low level competition and has no NCAA tournament success. I want someone who is good at the basketball aspect of coaching because those skills will be needed to translate to a higher level. Is he good?

Another site says: "Slow pace, doesn't take many 3s, good on the glass on both ends, allows teams to take a ton of 3s." That does not sound great. I notice his team is 329th nationally with 5.5 threes made per game. In KenPom his team is listed as 85th at adjusted offensive efficiency and 156th at adjusted defensive efficiency. I care a lot more about offense, and that is mediocre. It looks like his past teams were slightly better offensively.

So what is the basketball argument for him? Do his teams look good to the eye? Is he a great developer of talent? Do his teams set screens away from the ball? Do they move without the ball? Is the other site correct about slow pace? Is he modern in terms of the 3 point shot?
That 85 rank in adjusted offensive efficiency is the best ranking in the conference by 51 places, and the overall ranking is in part a function of playing in a league where you won't get much strength of schedule help. The questions I'd have are does he prefer the slower paced game or is it a function of the players he's been able to land. He's been there long enough that you'd think it was the former, which I wouldn't love. Can he recruit to Cal with that system even assuming the availability of NIL money?

Give me Pasternak over Miles any day though.
If JP get's the job and there will be attempts to land "big names'/national names - Joe will recruit extremely well. JP has earned and developed outstanding trusted relationships with Oakland Soldiers/PP programs along with key African country programs. Locally Bill Duffy/Calvin Andrews will support JP as well. JP has a very strong/effective network locally which is very important for Cal. Shore up the Bay Area/Sacramento as hoping for National coverage is hard to sustain without a proven tradition of winning. Pasternack will be able to recruit even better with a Power 5 team attraction to play for. He wins and former players respect him _ Leon Powe, Sean Marx, Omar Wilkes, Ryan Anderson, Theo, Midgely, Ubaka, etc Also interestingly Dennis Gates will endorse JP as they have a good relationship. Gates will receive the respectful call of "are you interested in the Cal job' and He will politely decline, but if asked He would endorse JP.
I feel like most of Cal's bad hires have been when they hire recruiters. I want a coach good at the basketball side. The only conference title of my lifetime was under Monty, the only coach who was good at the basketball stuff. I plan to watch UCSB tonight. I am curious and open minded.
Fox was supposed to be a good X's and O's coach. You need a blend of coaching and recruiting. Cal is not going to land top 50 type guys but there are a lot of underrecruited players that can help rebuild the program. Pasternack is a nice blend of coaching and recruiting. He also has experience at Cal and a strong network in NorCal.

IMO Pasternack is the best coach Cal can afford and likely attract to put the program back on solid footing. He would have a lot of support at the outset and that is important. Is Pasternack in Mick Cronins class as a coach? No, but this is a major rebuild. It will take more than good X's and O's to turn it around. it will require some players as well. I think Pasternack will be an active recruiter and the talent level should begin to pick up again.

He may be able to bring his PG who is a very nice player.
oskidunker
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6956bear said:

sluggo said:

4thGenCal said:

bluesaxe said:

sluggo said:

I hav read many times that Cal has to hire Pasternack. Mostly it is because he will bring in donors, he is a good recruiter, and he "knows" Cal and it is his dream to coach at Cal. And that he has a good record, although he is coaching against very low level competition and has no NCAA tournament success. I want someone who is good at the basketball aspect of coaching because those skills will be needed to translate to a higher level. Is he good?

Another site says: "Slow pace, doesn't take many 3s, good on the glass on both ends, allows teams to take a ton of 3s." That does not sound great. I notice his team is 329th nationally with 5.5 threes made per game. In KenPom his team is listed as 85th at adjusted offensive efficiency and 156th at adjusted defensive efficiency. I care a lot more about offense, and that is mediocre. It looks like his past teams were slightly better offensively.

So what is the basketball argument for him? Do his teams look good to the eye? Is he a great developer of talent? Do his teams set screens away from the ball? Do they move without the ball? Is the other site correct about slow pace? Is he modern in terms of the 3 point shot?
That 85 rank in adjusted offensive efficiency is the best ranking in the conference by 51 places, and the overall ranking is in part a function of playing in a league where you won't get much strength of schedule help. The questions I'd have are does he prefer the slower paced game or is it a function of the players he's been able to land. He's been there long enough that you'd think it was the former, which I wouldn't love. Can he recruit to Cal with that system even assuming the availability of NIL money?

Give me Pasternak over Miles any day though.
If JP get's the job and there will be attempts to land "big names'/national names - Joe will recruit extremely well. JP has earned and developed outstanding trusted relationships with Oakland Soldiers/PP programs along with key African country programs. Locally Bill Duffy/Calvin Andrews will support JP as well. JP has a very strong/effective network locally which is very important for Cal. Shore up the Bay Area/Sacramento as hoping for National coverage is hard to sustain without a proven tradition of winning. Pasternack will be able to recruit even better with a Power 5 team attraction to play for. He wins and former players respect him _ Leon Powe, Sean Marx, Omar Wilkes, Ryan Anderson, Theo, Midgely, Ubaka, etc Also interestingly Dennis Gates will endorse JP as they have a good relationship. Gates will receive the respectful call of "are you interested in the Cal job' and He will politely decline, but if asked He would endorse JP.
I feel like most of Cal's bad hires have been when they hire recruiters. I want a coach good at the basketball side. The only conference title of my lifetime was under Monty, the only coach who was good at the basketball stuff. I plan to watch UCSB tonight. I am curious and open minded.
Fox was supposed to be a good X's and O's coach. You need a blend of coaching and recruiting. Cal is not going to land top 50 type guys but there are a lot of underrecruited players that can help rebuild the program. Pasternack is a nice blend of coaching and recruiting. He also has experience at Cal and a strong network in NorCal.

IMO Pasternack is the best coach Cal can afford and likely attract to put the program back on solid footing. He would have a lot of support at the outset and that is important. Is Pasternack in Mick Cronins class as a coach? No, but this is a major rebuild. It will take more than good X's and O's to turn it around. it will require some players as well. I think Pasternack will be an active recruiter and the talent level should begin to pick up again.

He may be able to bring his PG who is a very nice player.
Would we wait until ucsb stops playing before announcing?
Go Bears!
calumnus
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sluggo said:

So I watched UCSB beat UCR 92-87 last night. I think the game answered some questions about Pasternack and raised some others. I realize it was only one game, and I hope to learn more today and in the NCAA tournament if UCSB wins today.

Offense: A critique of Pasternack was that his teams played at a slow pace and did not take many 3s. In this game they did not run the ball up, but they attacked immediately. And they shot every open 3 and went 8 for 15. So neither was an issue, at least last night. They shot 57% overall. The team shared the ball and had good spacing. For those like me who like structure, they had one early action, which they did well, then it was mostly one-on-one with on ball screening and little off the ball. Which is typical, but not great. It will be interesting if they have more against better competition.

Defense: Cal constantly hiring "great" defensive coaches has made me not care so much about defense. But UCSB's defense was bad. Over helping to give up easy 3s, under helping and allowing easy shots around the basket, constant, stupid fouling to keep UCR in the game. I also did not like that they hedged and recovered on every pick-and-roll. So the offense knew exactly what they would do and could attack it. If you are bad at aggressive man-to-man, you should play something else. I understand why UCSB is lowly ranked defensively.

Players: I really liked Norris, a forward with a face up game, and Pierre-Louis, an ultra quick guard who does not shoot great. Both are seniors and could maybe come as grad transfers. The announcers could not stop talking about sophomore Ajay Mitchell. He is a good player, a left-handed combo guard who can finish with either hand. But he is not great. He is a career 30% shooter from 3 and just an okay athlete. Of course Cal would take him, and he is an upgrade over Askew, but not by as much as I would have thought.

Overall: I like UCR's coach Magpayo. Pasternack? There are reasons to hire him but they are not on the basketball side.



Agreed. Pasternak has the far better roster, he is at traditional Big West power UCSB, selling beautiful beaches and decades of good fan support versus perennial doormat UC Riverside, but Magpayo is the better basketball coach.

The ONLY reason I would be OK with Pasternak is if big donors really come through with massive NIL to continue to give Pasternak a talent advantage. NIL is the future. If the same donors would back Magpayo, or any of dozens of other, otherwise better candidates equally, I would prefer we look elsewhere. But it really appears the donors would back Pasternak significantly more than others, so great. It is their money, go for it.
Pittstop
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Apropos to nothing in particular, Mark Fox had a similar-type run/record at UNR before he went to Georgia...and, ultimately, Cal.
Pittstop
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And he will almost certainly hire a strong staff of young[ish] knowledgeable assistants who also recruit, and possibly some with Cal connections.
BearSD
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calumnus said:

sluggo said:



The ONLY reason I would be OK with Pasternak is if big donors really come through ...
The only reason we should be OK with any new coach if is big donors really come through.

If only we had an AD who understands that substantial financial support from major donors is the top priority in this coaching search.
dimitrig
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BeachedBear said:

sluggo said:

BeachedBear said:

sluggo said:

I hav read many times that Cal has to hire Pasternack. Mostly it is because he will bring in donors, he is a good recruiter, and he "knows" Cal and it is his dream to coach at Cal. And that he has a good record, although he is coaching against very low level competition and has no NCAA tournament success. I want someone who is good at the basketball aspect of coaching because those skills will be needed to translate to a higher level. Is he good?

Another site says: "Slow pace, doesn't take many 3s, good on the glass on both ends, allows teams to take a ton of 3s." That does not sound great. I notice his team is 329th nationally with 5.5 threes made per game. In KenPom his team is listed as 85th at adjusted offensive efficiency and 156th at adjusted defensive efficiency. I care a lot more about offense, and that is mediocre. It looks like his past teams were slightly better offensively.

So what is the basketball argument for him? Do his teams look good to the eye? Is he a great developer of talent? Do his teams set screens away from the ball? Do they move without the ball? Is the other site correct about slow pace? Is he modern in terms of the 3 point shot?
When Pasternack was on the Cal staff and I was coaching AAU and summer camps, I had the opportunity to coach with him. he knows his X's & O's. He also gets adapting his scheme to his talent and opponents. More importantly, Joe knows all of the other things that go into a D1 college program - recruiting, donor outreach, administration support, fan engagement. Even more importantly, he's a basketball junkie - he will sit and talk schemes all day long and is always learning new things and trying to learn and adapt.

A very long time ago, I got to listen to an aged Pete Newell and Bob Knight geek out on X's and O's. It put most of my STEM professors to shame in terms of Nerddom. Joe P struck me in that vein (not in the chair throwing Knight vein).

Are there better coaches out there that Cal could get? I think so - but not with Knowlton in charge. Would Joe be successful at Cal? My sense is, given a few seasons - we would be comparing him (favorably) to Braun in his third or fourth season. Which is successful IMHO. Will Joe come to Cal - I think last year was our opportunity and unless Knowlton is replaced - he will find better pastures.

I'm glad Fox is fired, but the fact it took so long leaves me with no confidence in JK. If we can hire Joe, despite JK - I would be very thrilled and consider rejoining the CalmBB donor pool. If, as some on BI suggest, better minds like Marks, Abdur Rahim, Kidd and others are part of the decision, we could even do better. However, I don't have a good feeling that JK is self aware enough to step back and let someone competent take over.
Interesting first hand report. I know Cal could do a lot worse.
BTW - I also coached with Bozeman, when he was HC at Cal. He did not know his X's and O's - but was learning and always surrounded himself with good assistants (sort of the anti-FOX). He was a pretty darn good guard in college who really wanted to be a great coach, but at the time was a top recruiter (vs other coaching attributes). Other than getting caught (and I don't forgive that at all). He was a very passionate and generous person. Pretty much everyone around liked him.

At that time in College sports, cheating was absolutely everywhere. So, I wasn't surprised what followed later. I was just an AAU coach and I had parents offering me money like that would help. I actually donated my summer camp stipends because it was so bad. That whole experience turned me hard from AAU basketball for many years until my own kids came of age.


I went to Cal during the Bozeman years and I saw him on campus often. I never stopped to talk to him but he always smiled and waved as he walked past.

It was not entirely surprising that he got caught cheating given the recruiting success he had but it was sad because it didn't need to happen. Cal was riding high off of Kidd and would have signed some of those guys anyway. I think Bozeman just felt tremendous pressure to keep it going.
calumnus
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dimitrig said:

BeachedBear said:

sluggo said:

BeachedBear said:

sluggo said:

I hav read many times that Cal has to hire Pasternack. Mostly it is because he will bring in donors, he is a good recruiter, and he "knows" Cal and it is his dream to coach at Cal. And that he has a good record, although he is coaching against very low level competition and has no NCAA tournament success. I want someone who is good at the basketball aspect of coaching because those skills will be needed to translate to a higher level. Is he good?

Another site says: "Slow pace, doesn't take many 3s, good on the glass on both ends, allows teams to take a ton of 3s." That does not sound great. I notice his team is 329th nationally with 5.5 threes made per game. In KenPom his team is listed as 85th at adjusted offensive efficiency and 156th at adjusted defensive efficiency. I care a lot more about offense, and that is mediocre. It looks like his past teams were slightly better offensively.

So what is the basketball argument for him? Do his teams look good to the eye? Is he a great developer of talent? Do his teams set screens away from the ball? Do they move without the ball? Is the other site correct about slow pace? Is he modern in terms of the 3 point shot?
When Pasternack was on the Cal staff and I was coaching AAU and summer camps, I had the opportunity to coach with him. he knows his X's & O's. He also gets adapting his scheme to his talent and opponents. More importantly, Joe knows all of the other things that go into a D1 college program - recruiting, donor outreach, administration support, fan engagement. Even more importantly, he's a basketball junkie - he will sit and talk schemes all day long and is always learning new things and trying to learn and adapt.

A very long time ago, I got to listen to an aged Pete Newell and Bob Knight geek out on X's and O's. It put most of my STEM professors to shame in terms of Nerddom. Joe P struck me in that vein (not in the chair throwing Knight vein).

Are there better coaches out there that Cal could get? I think so - but not with Knowlton in charge. Would Joe be successful at Cal? My sense is, given a few seasons - we would be comparing him (favorably) to Braun in his third or fourth season. Which is successful IMHO. Will Joe come to Cal - I think last year was our opportunity and unless Knowlton is replaced - he will find better pastures.

I'm glad Fox is fired, but the fact it took so long leaves me with no confidence in JK. If we can hire Joe, despite JK - I would be very thrilled and consider rejoining the CalmBB donor pool. If, as some on BI suggest, better minds like Marks, Abdur Rahim, Kidd and others are part of the decision, we could even do better. However, I don't have a good feeling that JK is self aware enough to step back and let someone competent take over.
Interesting first hand report. I know Cal could do a lot worse.
BTW - I also coached with Bozeman, when he was HC at Cal. He did not know his X's and O's - but was learning and always surrounded himself with good assistants (sort of the anti-FOX). He was a pretty darn good guard in college who really wanted to be a great coach, but at the time was a top recruiter (vs other coaching attributes). Other than getting caught (and I don't forgive that at all). He was a very passionate and generous person. Pretty much everyone around liked him.

At that time in College sports, cheating was absolutely everywhere. So, I wasn't surprised what followed later. I was just an AAU coach and I had parents offering me money like that would help. I actually donated my summer camp stipends because it was so bad. That whole experience turned me hard from AAU basketball for many years until my own kids came of age.


I went to Cal during the Bozeman years and I saw him on campus often. I never stopped to talk to him but he always smiled and waved as he walked past.

It was not entirely surprising that he got caught cheating given the recruiting success he had but it was sad because it didn't need to happen. Cal was riding high off of Kidd and would have signed some of those guys anyway. I think Bozeman just felt tremendous pressure to keep it going.



The Gardner's story still doesn't make sense. Casey, the agent that supposedly gave Gardner's dad the money lived near the Gardners in LA, was married to Jelani's mom's cousin, and was turned into to the NCAA by Bozeman the year before for giving Tremaine Fowlkes $1,800 to buy a car. A key piece of the puzzle was the sexual harassment suit involving the young women who Jelani introduced to Bozeman and who was involved in the Friends Helping Friend pyramid scheme that was dropped when Bozeman agreed to resign.

Here was a pretty good article at the time:

https://vault.si.com/.amp/vault/1996/09/09/haste-made-waste-cals-basketball-coach-todd-bozeman-was-a-man-in-a-hurry-until-charges-of-wrongdoing-halted-him

Maybe one day, after Bozeman retires, the real, full story might come out.
dimitrig
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calumnus said:

dimitrig said:

BeachedBear said:

sluggo said:

BeachedBear said:

sluggo said:

I hav read many times that Cal has to hire Pasternack. Mostly it is because he will bring in donors, he is a good recruiter, and he "knows" Cal and it is his dream to coach at Cal. And that he has a good record, although he is coaching against very low level competition and has no NCAA tournament success. I want someone who is good at the basketball aspect of coaching because those skills will be needed to translate to a higher level. Is he good?

Another site says: "Slow pace, doesn't take many 3s, good on the glass on both ends, allows teams to take a ton of 3s." That does not sound great. I notice his team is 329th nationally with 5.5 threes made per game. In KenPom his team is listed as 85th at adjusted offensive efficiency and 156th at adjusted defensive efficiency. I care a lot more about offense, and that is mediocre. It looks like his past teams were slightly better offensively.

So what is the basketball argument for him? Do his teams look good to the eye? Is he a great developer of talent? Do his teams set screens away from the ball? Do they move without the ball? Is the other site correct about slow pace? Is he modern in terms of the 3 point shot?
When Pasternack was on the Cal staff and I was coaching AAU and summer camps, I had the opportunity to coach with him. he knows his X's & O's. He also gets adapting his scheme to his talent and opponents. More importantly, Joe knows all of the other things that go into a D1 college program - recruiting, donor outreach, administration support, fan engagement. Even more importantly, he's a basketball junkie - he will sit and talk schemes all day long and is always learning new things and trying to learn and adapt.

A very long time ago, I got to listen to an aged Pete Newell and Bob Knight geek out on X's and O's. It put most of my STEM professors to shame in terms of Nerddom. Joe P struck me in that vein (not in the chair throwing Knight vein).

Are there better coaches out there that Cal could get? I think so - but not with Knowlton in charge. Would Joe be successful at Cal? My sense is, given a few seasons - we would be comparing him (favorably) to Braun in his third or fourth season. Which is successful IMHO. Will Joe come to Cal - I think last year was our opportunity and unless Knowlton is replaced - he will find better pastures.

I'm glad Fox is fired, but the fact it took so long leaves me with no confidence in JK. If we can hire Joe, despite JK - I would be very thrilled and consider rejoining the CalmBB donor pool. If, as some on BI suggest, better minds like Marks, Abdur Rahim, Kidd and others are part of the decision, we could even do better. However, I don't have a good feeling that JK is self aware enough to step back and let someone competent take over.
Interesting first hand report. I know Cal could do a lot worse.
BTW - I also coached with Bozeman, when he was HC at Cal. He did not know his X's and O's - but was learning and always surrounded himself with good assistants (sort of the anti-FOX). He was a pretty darn good guard in college who really wanted to be a great coach, but at the time was a top recruiter (vs other coaching attributes). Other than getting caught (and I don't forgive that at all). He was a very passionate and generous person. Pretty much everyone around liked him.

At that time in College sports, cheating was absolutely everywhere. So, I wasn't surprised what followed later. I was just an AAU coach and I had parents offering me money like that would help. I actually donated my summer camp stipends because it was so bad. That whole experience turned me hard from AAU basketball for many years until my own kids came of age.


I went to Cal during the Bozeman years and I saw him on campus often. I never stopped to talk to him but he always smiled and waved as he walked past.

It was not entirely surprising that he got caught cheating given the recruiting success he had but it was sad because it didn't need to happen. Cal was riding high off of Kidd and would have signed some of those guys anyway. I think Bozeman just felt tremendous pressure to keep it going.



The Gardner's story still doesn't make sense. Casey, the agent that supposedly gave Gardner's dad the money lived near the Gardners in LA, was married to Jelani's mom's cousin, and was turned into to the NCAA by Bozeman the year before for giving Tremaine Fowlkes $1,800 to buy a car. A key piece of the puzzle was the sexual harassment suit involving the young women who Jelani introduced to Bozeman and who was involved in the Friends Helping Friend pyramid scheme that was dropped when Bozeman agreed to resign.

Here was a pretty good article at the time:

https://vault.si.com/.amp/vault/1996/09/09/haste-made-waste-cals-basketball-coach-todd-bozeman-was-a-man-in-a-hurry-until-charges-of-wrongdoing-halted-him

Maybe one day, after Bozeman retires, the real, full story might come out.


Pete Newell from the article:

"You may have momentary glory, but in the long
run it hurts you more. See, at Cal, the alums don't want a
national championship every year, or even every decade. They
want to be proud."
89Bear
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Pasternak:
-Brings a quality point guard.
-Brings back Theo perhaps and other former players on staff.
-Has a strong connection to AAU coaches, especially the local guys.
-Has, supposedly, support from some key donors.

Done deal, in my opinion!!!
oskidunker
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89Bear said:

Pasternak:
-Brings a quality point guard.
-Brings back Theo perhaps and other former players on staff.
-Has a strong connection to AAU coaches, especially the local guys.
-Has, supposedly, support from some key donors.

Done deal, in my opinion!!!


I hope you are right but who knows what Knowlton will do.
Go Bears!
sluggo
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sluggo said:

So I watched UCSB beat UCR 92-87 last night. I think the game answered some questions about Pasternack and raised some others. I realize it was only one game, and I hope to learn more today and in the NCAA tournament if UCSB wins today.

Offense: A critique of Pasternack was that his teams played at a slow pace and did not take many 3s. In this game they did not run the ball up, but they attacked immediately. And they shot every open 3 and went 8 for 15. So neither was an issue, at least last night. They shot 57% overall. The team shared the ball and had good spacing. For those like me who like structure, they had one early action, which they did well, then it was mostly one-on-one with on ball screening and little off the ball. Which is typical, but not great. It will be interesting if they have more against better competition.

Defense: Cal constantly hiring "great" defensive coaches has made me not care so much about defense. But UCSB's defense was bad. Over helping to give up easy 3s, under helping and allowing easy shots around the basket, constant, stupid fouling to keep UCR in the game. I also did not like that they hedged and recovered on every pick-and-roll. So the offense knew exactly what they would do and could attack it. If you are bad at aggressive man-to-man, you should play something else. I understand why UCSB is lowly ranked defensively.

Players: I really liked Norris, a forward with a face up game, and Pierre-Louis, an ultra quick guard who does not shoot great. Both are seniors and could maybe come as grad transfers. The announcers could not stop talking about sophomore Ajay Mitchell. He is a good player, a left-handed combo guard who can finish with either hand. But he is not great. He is a career 30% shooter from 3 and just an okay athlete. Of course Cal would take him, and he is an upgrade over Askew, but not by as much as I would have thought.

Overall: I like UCR's coach Magpayo. Pasternack? There are reasons to hire him but they are not on the basketball side.

Watched the final against Fullerton. Pasternack very much out coached the Fullerton coach. Fullerton had the quickness advantage so UCSB had to work a little harder on offense than against UCR, and they showed more. They had some secondary actions and some nice screens to free up their best shooter Wishart. On defense they forced Fullerton into mostly tough shots, though Fullerton had no offensive cohesion, maybe because they were tired. While they only won by 10, it felt like they were in control the whole time.

Mitchell did a good job getting to the basket, and he is a great finisher. But he struggled defensively with the quickness of the Fullerton guards. I don't think his skills would translate to the PAC like some think they would.

It will be interesting to see what they do in the tournament.
tequila4kapp
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4thGenCal said:

sluggo said:

So I watched UCSB beat UCR 92-87 last night. I think the game answered some questions about Pasternack and raised some others. I realize it was only one game, and I hope to learn more today and in the NCAA tournament if UCSB wins today.

Offense: A critique of Pasternack was that his teams played at a slow pace and did not take many 3s. In this game they did not run the ball up, but they attacked immediately. And they shot every open 3 and went 8 for 15. So neither was an issue, at least last night. They shot 57% overall. The team shared the ball and had good spacing. For those like me who like structure, they had one early action, which they did well, then it was mostly one-on-one with on ball screening and little off the ball. Which is typical, but not great. It will be interesting if they have more against better competition.

Defense: Cal constantly hiring "great" defensive coaches has made me not care so much about defense. But UCSB's defense was bad. Over helping to give up easy 3s, under helping and allowing easy shots around the basket, constant, stupid fouling to keep UCR in the game. I also did not like that they hedged and recovered on every pick-and-roll. So the offense knew exactly what they would do and could attack it. If you are bad at aggressive man-to-man, you should play something else. I understand why UCSB is lowly ranked defensively.

Players: I really liked Norris, a forward with a face up game, and Pierre-Louis, an ultra quick guard who does not shoot great. Both are seniors and could maybe come as grad transfers. The announcers could not stop talking about sophomore Ajay Mitchell. He is a good player, a left-handed combo guard who can finish with either hand. But he is not great. He is a career 30% shooter from 3 and just an okay athlete. Of course Cal would take him, and he is an upgrade over Askew, but not by as much as I would have thought.

Overall: I like UCR's coach Magpayo. Pasternack? There are reasons to hire him but they are not on the basketball side.

Always like your blunt opinions and thus no hedging! Tough assessment (and as you clearly said based on the one game watched and vs a team playing for the 3rd time in less than 3 months). Would be interesting if the bar posters have - for must have qualities in a HC, are applied as well to their significant other?. Joe wins - that is the defining bar to have - 131-52 at UCSB (4 of 5, 21+ winning seasons).and took over the program at near current Cal basketball levels. As a very well known former HC said to me this week "What matters is that his teams win. They do an excellent job of scouting to take away their opponents strengths. His teams can score, but they rely on their defense to win or put themselves in the position to win. He has a # of guys each year who can score on the block, which you need, can knock down 3's or create at the end of the shot clock . That is call efficiency. Do you want a team that looks good or passes the eye test, or wins. Pretty simple to me". And yes JP also brings other key reasons to the table that are critical to winning at Cal. Mitchell would certainly be an upgrade at pt at Cal and yes He would follow JP.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughts. Good stuff.

I agree with the bolded.

However you slice it a coach with a proven prolonged track record of winning is either out recruiting or out coaching (or both) his competition. We need that type of competence more than we need style points.

We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
stu
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Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.
calumnus
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stu said:

Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.


That was my thought when I read that too. Buy an inexpensive electric. Find the next Tesla.
stu
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calumnus said:

stu said:

Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.


That was my thought when I read that too. Find the next Tesla.
Unless JK has an affinity for this:

Big C
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calumnus said:

stu said:

Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.


That was my thought when I read that too. Find the next Tesla.

Can we afford a Tesla? Not sure I care for that Model 3, their entry level. Also not liking Elon Musk too much these days...

Honda has some electrics and even a fuel cell, I believe!
RJABear
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UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
stu
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Big C said:

calumnus said:

stu said:

Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.


That was my thought when I read that too. Find the next Tesla.

Can we afford a Tesla? Not sure I care for that Model 3, their entry level. Also not liking Elon Musk too much these days...

Honda has some electrics and even a fuel cell, I believe!
Hydrogen is cool, even AC Transit is using it buses. But in this situation we need to keep Frank Zappa's observation in mind:

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."


Big C
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stu said:

Big C said:

calumnus said:

stu said:

Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.


That was my thought when I read that too. Find the next Tesla.

Can we afford a Tesla? Not sure I care for that Model 3, their entry level. Also not liking Elon Musk too much these days...

Honda has some electrics and even a fuel cell, I believe!
Hydrogen is cool, even AC Transit is using it buses. But in this situation we need to keep Frank Zappa's observation in mind:

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."




I hear you, but if stupidity were such a good basic building block, wouldn't the Cal Athletic Department _____________ ?

(will leave y'all to complete the above sentence any way you like)
stu
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Big C said:

Can we afford a Tesla? Not sure I care for that Model 3, their entry level. Also not liking Elon Musk too much these days...
I just bought one of these, kinda the anti-Tesla. Used, with a great record and lots of potential. High floor, high ceiling. Fits right in around Berkeley. Dunno if it can recruit.

tequila4kapp
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What is that?
oskidunker
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tequila4kapp said:

What is that?
Smart car?
Go Bears!
stu
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BMW i3, made from 2014 through 2021. Designed from the ground up to be electric, extremely efficient, kinda weird (in a good way), not much like other BMWs.

Top Gear review
HoopDreams
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RJABear said:

UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
tough draw

baylor is deep, athletic and aggressive

good news is they aren't super long in the post (they have a lot of 6-7 to 6-10 Forwards)

it will be interesting to see how Ajay will compete on both sides of the court
Cal_79
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Big C said:

stu said:

Big C said:

calumnus said:

stu said:

Quote:

... We have been driving a used Yugo. It's nice to dream about a Porsche. We need to be happy - very happy - with a fully loaded Honda.
We're 2 decades into the 21st Century. Time to go electric.


That was my thought when I read that too. Find the next Tesla.

Can we afford a Tesla? Not sure I care for that Model 3, their entry level. Also not liking Elon Musk too much these days...

Honda has some electrics and even a fuel cell, I believe!
Hydrogen is cool, even AC Transit is using it buses. But in this situation we need to keep Frank Zappa's observation in mind:

"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."




I hear you, but if stupidity were such a good basic building block, wouldn't the Cal Athletic Department _____________ ?

(will leave y'all to complete the above sentence any way you like)

Don't confuse quantity with quality. Might want to reread the quote about stupidity being the basic building block of the universe.

Where does it state that stupidity is a 'good' basic building block?
stu
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HoopDreams said:

RJABear said:

UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
tough draw

baylor is deep, athletic and aggressive

good news is they aren't super long in the post (they have a lot of 6-7 to 6-10 Forwards)

it will be interesting to see how Ajay will compete on both sides of the court

Good news for whom? The more games UCSB wins the harder it will be for us to poach their coach.
HoopDreams
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stu said:

HoopDreams said:

RJABear said:

UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
tough draw

baylor is deep, athletic and aggressive

good news is they aren't super long in the post (they have a lot of 6-7 to 6-10 Forwards)

it will be interesting to see how Ajay will compete on both sides of the court

Good news for whom? The more games UCSB wins the harder it will be for us to poach their coach.
maybe, but hard to root against Kelly
calumnus
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HoopDreams said:

stu said:

HoopDreams said:

RJABear said:

UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
tough draw

baylor is deep, athletic and aggressive

good news is they aren't super long in the post (they have a lot of 6-7 to 6-10 Forwards)

it will be interesting to see how Ajay will compete on both sides of the court

Good news for whom? The more games UCSB wins the harder it will be for us to poach their coach.
maybe, but hard to root against Kelly


Definitely rooting for Kelly, Bradley and Vanover.
HoopDreams
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calumnus said:

HoopDreams said:

stu said:

HoopDreams said:

RJABear said:

UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
tough draw

baylor is deep, athletic and aggressive

good news is they aren't super long in the post (they have a lot of 6-7 to 6-10 Forwards)

it will be interesting to see how Ajay will compete on both sides of the court

Good news for whom? The more games UCSB wins the harder it will be for us to poach their coach.
maybe, but hard to root against Kelly


Definitely rooting for Kelly, Bradley and Vanover.
It may be the year for Bradley
calumnus
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HoopDreams said:

calumnus said:

HoopDreams said:

stu said:

HoopDreams said:

RJABear said:

UCSB is a #14 and got Baylor the #3 in the South Region
tough draw

baylor is deep, athletic and aggressive

good news is they aren't super long in the post (they have a lot of 6-7 to 6-10 Forwards)

it will be interesting to see how Ajay will compete on both sides of the court

Good news for whom? The more games UCSB wins the harder it will be for us to poach their coach.
maybe, but hard to root against Kelly


Definitely rooting for Kelly, Bradley and Vanover.
It may be the year for Bradley


And Gates, definitely rooting for Gates.

bluehenbear
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Rod Benson on Pasternack
 
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