So far we've played two teams that are not projected to do anything close to significant, but they've made us look bad due to the simple reason that both of them are coached to move the ball swiftyl around the perimeter, find the opening, and because they have recruited shooters, make the 3 point shot.

In today's game, this style has become the blueprint style more than ever. Makes me wonder as we go through the season, how many of our opponents will have the same approach as St. Thomas and Pacific? While our offensive movement has been subpar (understatement I know), the fact is that the few times we have been successful, the play has resulted more often than not in a 2 point basket as opposed to 3. Makes me wonder in this day and age if a team can win that way. I know you've all heard it over and over, but to match 40% from 3 point land you have to go 60% from inside the arc. Unless you have top 20 caliber defense, it almost seems like every game will always be a struggle using Cal's approach.

This whole narration might be a smoke screen for me really saying that this team isn't very good, but I guess I'm sucked in to thinking that we DO have talented players, however our approach to the game won't work over 30+ games. Wondering if any of you kind of have the feeling as I do or some variation of it. Comments certainly welcomed.

Agreed. I know I'm not a coach and this isn't a very sophisticated analysis but if we were so helpless in a straight man to man maybe some type of extended zone is the answer. As I mentioned before, if we extend and are caught at least we're giving up 2 instead of 3.

"both of them are coached to move the ball swiftyl around the perimeter, find the opening, and because they have recruited shooters,"

certainly not new, but many never achieve it, I remember back in the late 50's when I played HS ball the coach drilled us on this, but we quite frankly just didn't have the talent to do it

I have admired the Warriors and their ball movement, they have made it more of the "in thing" to do, but it certainly is not new

Oakbear said:

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"both of them are coached to move the ball swiftyl around the perimeter, find the opening, and because they have recruited shooters,"

certainly not new, but many never achieve it, I remember back in the late 50's when I played HS ball the coach drilled us on this, but we quite frankly just didn't have the talent to do it

I have admired the Warriors and their ball movement, they have made it more of the "in thing" to do, but it certainly is not new

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to your point, yes this strategy is not "new", but the point I was trying to make is that in the college game with the much closer 3 point distance, the word that on second thought I should have used is more "emphasized."

When the opponents are playing 5 out I think we should go small. Last night our two centers got only 2 defensive rebounds and committed 4 fouls while UOP was making 13 threes. At the other end our two centers scored 18 (on 13 FGA and 9 FTA) which didn't make up for the damage on defense.

I would like to have seen us try a rotation of Cone, Askew, Celestine, Bowser, Tyson, and Newell with a little of Brown and Pavlovic. When Kennedy becomes available that smaller lineup should be a lot better.

Askew is killing us. He is not a point guard. We need a distributor . Maybe when Kennedy can play, Cone runs the point.

stu said:

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When the opponents are playing 5 out I think we should go small. Last night our two centers got only 2 defensive rebounds and committed 4 fouls while UOP was making 13 threes. At the other end our two centers scored 18 (on 13 FGA and 9 FTA) which didn't make up for the damage on defense.

I would like to have seen us try a rotation of Cone, Askew, Celestine, Bowser, Tyson, and Newell with a little of Brown and Pavlovic. When Kennedy becomes available that smaller lineup should be a lot better.

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You make a very strong point. And yes, I'm not the coach, don't see what goes on in practice, and don't mean to pile on Askew, but maybe a few of his minutes could go to Bowser, who has more experience than Brown, and looked very comfortable in his few minute vs. St. Thomas as well as playing extremely well in last season's finale.

If we go five out they will drive on us for easy lay ups.

If we play a team that goes 5 out we can go to a zone with 4 out to defend the three and Aimaq down low as the rim protector/rebounder. Then feed Aimaq on offense.

I see Aimaq more as a low post scorer and rebounder than a rim protector. And if opponents are playing 5 out he won't be able to stay around the rim.

There likely aren't any talented players on this team. In the era of portal and plug-n-play I think that's a fair assessment.

Unlike a football squad, basketball requires only five players, and only three at most to be competitive. Clearly we aren't meeting that benchmark.

Does Madsen know how how to coach a team to score?

We're scoring much more than Fox's teams. We're also giving up much more.

touchdownbears43 said:

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There likely aren't any talented players on this team. In the era of portal and plug-n-play I think that's a fair assessment.

Unlike a football squad, basketball requires only five players, and only three at most to be competitive. Clearly we aren't meeting that benchmark.

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Apologies if I am taking your statement too literally, but if you believe there likely aren't any talented players on this team then I would guess you are expecting them to win, say three games this year, similiar to last year. Is that the case?

touchdownbears43 said:

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There likely aren't any talented players on this team. In the era of portal and plug-n-play I think that's a fair assessment.

Unlike a football squad, basketball requires only five players, and only three at most to be competitive. Clearly we aren't meeting that benchmark.

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That's absurd. There's talent on this team, but Madsen has to figure out how to best fit it together and these guys haven't played together much so that is harder than it would be if there was more continuity.

And no, three guys won't make you competitive and if you can't go at least 8 deep you'll struggle to win games.

upsetof86 said:

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Does Madsen know how how to coach a team to score?

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79 points last game. That ought to win you a college game.

Cone is not making enough shots for the volume he shoots.

oskidunker said:

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Cone is not making enough shots for the volume he shoots.

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does he get stuck throwing up any last minute shot clock shots?? that can really affect the percentage

Oakbear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Cone is not making enough shots for the volume he shoots.

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does he get stuck throwing up any last minute shot clock shots?? that can really affect the percentage

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The ones I saw weren't last second but I'm sure they'll start falling after everyone has played together for a while and gotten more comfortable.

stu said:

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Oakbear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Cone is not making enough shots for the volume he shoots.

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does he get stuck throwing up any last minute shot clock shots?? that can really affect the percentage

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The ones I saw weren't last second but I'm sure they'll start falling after everyone has played together for a while and gotten more comfortable.

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Career
G
2
114
PTS
16.0
14.1
TRB
1.5
2.1
AST
1.5
2.1
FG%
32.0
39.9
FG3%
31.3
38.5
FT%
84.6
84.8

in 114 games he has hit 40%, he should revert to his average?

Maybe he could be coached on shot selection. Same issue with equally talented Jayda Curry on our women's team last season.

stu said:

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Maybe he could be coached on shot selection. Same issue with equally talented Jayda Curry on our women's team last season.

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In fairness to Cone a majority of his 3 point misses on Friday came late in the game as the deficit reached double digits. This was a game situation, don't think at this point JC needs shot selection coaching

upsetof86 said:

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Does Madsen know how how to coach a team to score?

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At Utah Valley State, Madsen's teams average scoring was in the low 70s. Last season was 77.4 pts per game. I expect that's what we'll see from his Cal teams and so far, that's about what we've done in the first two games. He's not Paul Westphal, if that's what you're looking for.