It's tough to play with 3 rotation players out for a protracted interval just 4 games into the season. Maybe it will help develop our bench.

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

Exactly. They looked ok at the end of the last game. I think Okafor should get more time when we are getting abused in the middle. At least he can block shots.

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

Maybe Pete Newell Court has latent construction defects.

bearister said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

Maybe Pete Newell Court has latent construction defects.

---

Must be the absence of a dedicated practice facility.

oskidunker said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

Exactly. They looked ok at the end of the last game. I think Okafor should get more time when we are getting abused in the middle. At least he can block shots.

---

Hey what happened to Okafor? Injured? He looked pretty good for his four minutes in the first half, then we never saw him again. Maybe play him and Aimaq at the same time? Clog the middle against a team that's shooting poorly from distance.

JimSox said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

Exactly. They looked ok at the end of the last game. I think Okafor should get more time when we are getting abused in the middle. At least he can block shots.

---

Hey what happened to Okafor? Injured? He looked pretty good for his four minutes in the first half, then we never saw him again. Maybe play him and Aimaq at the same time? Clog the middle against a team that's shooting poorly from distance.

---

Good question. Better to play okofor at center and Aimaq at forward.

wifeisafurd said:

---

This team has a lot of individual talent, as evident by just watching games. Will take some time to play as a team with so many new bodies, and injuries don't help. Especially on team defense. They just need to ready for conference play.

---

Right now, that looks like a tall order.

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

---

Nor did he jump as high or play as much at a young age like these kids do? Anyone who thinks injuries didn't happen in the good old days is suffering from a failing memory. Even Havlicek dislocated his right shoulder in the Eastern Conference Finals in 1973. Stuff happens in a contact sport involving constant motion. Ankles and knees are vulnerable as are all those small bones in the feet.

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

---

SFCB, while I respect your opinion you have to remember that John Havlicek was referring to an 82 game season, and even in those days you could add an average of mabye 10 playoff games. That's 92 games. Kind of apples and oranges.

bluesaxe said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

---

Nor did he jump as high or play as much at a young age like these kids do? Anyone who thinks injuries didn't happen in the good old days is suffering from a failing memory. Even Havlicek dislocated his right shoulder in the Eastern Conference Finals in 1973. Stuff happens in a contact sport involving constant motion. Ankles and knees are vulnerable as are all those small bones in the feet.

---

I don't understand much of your post, and I hope you can explain. Your first sentence kind of makes my point, when you say "Havlicek did not jump as high at a young age.........like these kids do." If you mean he could not jump as high as kids today, well Hondo could jump. He was a fine rebounder for a guard, averaging 6.3 rebounds a game over his career, a little less than Oscar Robertson, and a little more thane Jerry West. As a guard, you don't get many rebounds in the NBA if you can't jump. When you say "Hondo didn't play as much as a young age like these kids do", you are probably right, because he was a fabulous 3-sport athlete, growing up. He was a star QB in high school football, drafted by the Cleveland Browns to play wide receiver in 1962. He could throw a football 80 yards. He was also an outstanding baseball player, and went to Ohio State to play basketball and baseball. As a kid he probably gave about one third of his time playing sports to just playing basketball.

Who said "injuries didn't happen in the good old days"? Not me. I was a chopped liver player,but I suffered as many or more injuries than most. I sprained my ankles and my fingers many times. I suffered a broken finger. I had a concussion. The only time I ever missed a game for injury, was when I missed two games due to spraining both knees on the same play. Two defenders hit me from each side at the same time, and the impact lifted me up into the air a couple feet, and I landed on both knees. I was on crutches for a week. The difference might be that most old time players played through their injuries, as opposed today. When players get injured now, they are pulled from the game, and every precaution is taken by coaches to ensure their safety. They are checked out, treated by medical personnel, before they are allowed to return, in many or most cases. I think it is an insurance thing, rather than a player being soft, if you get my drift. Look at baseball. Look at all the different injured lists they have now. When Willie Mays played, there was no injured list, or disabled list, as they used to call it. Most of those old time baseball players played every game every day. There was no platooning, and very few injuries.

I watched a lot of Cal basketball games before I came to Cal, and many years after. In my early years, I don't think I ever saw a player get injured. Earl Robinson came to Cal with a knee injured enough for him to wear a knee pad, and Darrall Imhoff got the flu in the NCAA semi-final, and in the final the next night, was perhaps the worst game of his Cal career. He was gassed. None of the guys I played with in scrimmages, like Cam Wall, Dick Smith, Jim Smith got injured at Cal. Were players back then tougher? I don't know. I'm sure it must have happened, but I don't remember any of Newell's Cal players ever getting injured.

Havlicek dislocated his right shoulder in the 3rd game of the 1973 Easter Conference Playoffs as you said. He missed game 4, but then returned to the lineup for the next three games, playing left-handed.

John Madden talked a lot about the big increase in injuries in pro sports. His theory was that the reason for the increase was the extensive training in the gym to build bulk and strength. He said players had too much mass and strength, and their frames or skeleton could not support all that load an stress. Whatever the reason, injuries have increased from days long ago.

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

---

SFCB, while I respect your opinion you have to remember that John Havlicek was referring to an 82 game season, and even in those days you could add an average of mabye 10 playoff games. That's 92 games. Kind of apples and oranges.

---

I respect you as well, but I don't quite understand the point. Are you saying using Havlicek is not a good example because he played many more games than a college player? Havlicek had very few injuries, but he did have some over the years. He played all 82 games in only 5 seasons out of his 16 seasons in the NBA. Players in college play far fewer games, but I feel like so many have injuries now. And the injuries seem more severe, like the player who had a compound fracture of his leg during a game on TV.

SFCityBear said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

---

SFCB, while I respect your opinion you have to remember that John Havlicek was referring to an 82 game season, and even in those days you could add an average of mabye 10 playoff games. That's 92 games. Kind of apples and oranges.

---

I respect you as well, but I don't quite understand the point. Are you saying using Havlicek is not a good example because he played many more games than a college player? Havlicek had very few injuries, but he did have some over the years. He played all 82 games in only 5 seasons out of his 16 seasons in the NBA. Players in college play far fewer games, but I feel like so many have injuries now. And the injuries seem more severe, like the player who had a compound fracture of his leg during a game on TV.

---

I think he is saying Havlicek played at 85% sometimes because NBA players play a lot more minutes and games than college players.

JimSox said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

Exactly. They looked ok at the end of the last game. I think Okafor should get more time when we are getting abused in the middle. At least he can block shots.

---

Hey what happened to Okafor? Injured? He looked pretty good for his four minutes in the first half, then we never saw him again. Maybe play him and Aimaq at the same time? Clog the middle against a team that's shooting poorly from distance.

---

Just a hunch but in that particular game playing without Askew who Madsen considers a point guard, Madsen may have thought that on the offensive end Okafor may have been too ineffective to produce anything without Askew working with him (Okafor.) Just a guess.

Civil Bear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

upsetof86 said:

---

stu said:

---

Are these practice injuries? What are we doing?

---

I'm more cynical and going to guess we have some dietary behavior involved. I mean eat meats and dairy regularly if your under 25 playing competitive sports. Dinosaur right? I never grew up with so many injuries.

---

Did you play as hard and fast, and jump as high as they do now? Did you try to play at 110% or 120% of your capability all the time?

NBA Hall of Famer, John Havlicek, said he played at 85% of his capability most of the time, saving himself to go all out in key situations like the last few minutes in an NBA game. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, 13 times an All-Star, and in his 16th and final season, played all 82 games, averaged 34 minutes a game and shot better than he did in his rookie year.

Playing beyond your capabilities is just plain stupid, because it increases your exposure to situations that cause injuries. But that is what kids do today, and a lot of coaches push them to do it. And the fans love it. Welcome to modern basketball.

---

SFCB, while I respect your opinion you have to remember that John Havlicek was referring to an 82 game season, and even in those days you could add an average of mabye 10 playoff games. That's 92 games. Kind of apples and oranges.

---

I respect you as well, but I don't quite understand the point. Are you saying using Havlicek is not a good example because he played many more games than a college player? Havlicek had very few injuries, but he did have some over the years. He played all 82 games in only 5 seasons out of his 16 seasons in the NBA. Players in college play far fewer games, but I feel like so many have injuries now. And the injuries seem more severe, like the player who had a compound fracture of his leg during a game on TV.

---

I think he is saying Havlicek played at 85% sometimes because NBA players play a lot more minutes and games than college players.

---

My point is, the original theory appeared to be that current Cal players should pace themselves like John Havlicek did. We're talking about 20 year old kids playing 30 games in 4 months trying to help a team that may not even finish .500. They're going to give their all.
In probably every season John Havlicek played by mid January he knew his team would be in the playoffs. At that point of course he would pace himself for the second half of an 82 game season. Come playoff time I'm sure he went all out. Same reason in today's NBA many players literally sit out games on back to back nights. The two situations cannot be compared because the criteria is so different.

blungld said:

---

Consider season prediction officially revised down from 14-18 wins to 8-12 wins. Bummer.

---

Yeah, I am thinking 12-16 wins would be a good result at this point. .500 is still the goal.

calumnus said:

---

blungld said:

---

Consider season prediction officially revised down from 14-18 wins to 8-12 wins. Bummer.

---

Yeah, I am thinking 12-16 wins would be a good result at this point. .500 is still the goal.

---

I Can live with this.

BeachedBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

blungld said:

---

Consider season prediction officially revised down from 14-18 wins to 8-12 wins. Bummer.

---

Yeah, I am thinking 12-16 wins would be a good result at this point. .500 is still the goal.

---

More than win counts, I'm looking at the 'soft' things this season. Team chemistry, improvement throughout the season, cohesion, A coaching staff that has a clue.

Watching last night's replay, I'm seeing minor things that are easily correctible. unlike prior years, where the scheme didn't fit the talent and no changes were ever made.

---

In my darkest moments last season, I would have said they fit perfectly. Poor scheme fit perfectly with poor talent. But like I said, those were dark moments.

Write for California said Madsen hopes Askew, Celestine will be able to play this week. I thought I read here first conference game. Kennedy was speculated Dec2, Any updates?

HearstMining said:

---

In my darkest moments last season, I would have said they fit perfectly. Poor scheme fit perfectly with poor talent. But like I said, those were dark moments.

---

I am a big believer in the theory that life is just one big song/ movie reference.

In my hour of darkness
In my time of need
Oh Lord, grant me vision
Oh Lord, grant me speed
-Emmylou Harris/Gram Parsons, In My Hour of Darkness


*Gram OD'd at the Joshua Tree Inn in September, 1973. An ice cube suppository, the holistic Narcan of the 70's, failed to save him. The poor b@stard died less than two months shy of getting into the 27 Club with Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Pigpen, et al.

bearister said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

In my darkest moments last season, I would have said they fit perfectly. Poor scheme fit perfectly with poor talent. But like I said, those were dark moments.

---

I am a big believer in the theory that life is just one big song/ movie reference.

In my hour of darkness
In my time of need
Oh Lord, grant me vision
Oh Lord, grant me speed
-Emmylou Harris/Gram Parsons, In My Hour of Darkness


*Gram OD'd at the Joshua Tree Inn in September, 1973. An ice cube suppository, the holistic Narcan of the 70's, failed to save him. The poor b@stard died less than two months shy of getting into the 27 Club with Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison, Pigpen, et al.

---

People did some incredibly stupid stuff in the 1970s, yet somehow produced all that great music.