Butler is picked second to last in their conference. To. BEat Arizona Cone cant go 2-10.
I am hoping we get some players back for SantaClara. Maybe home court will help.

Ole Miss predicted as 10 place -14 in conference. Waiting for two portal players to be approved

It was absolutely maddening to watch Cone shoot. I don't know the depth chart, but hopefully we have some guards coming back into the rotation soon.

GoOskie said:

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It was absolutely maddening to watch Cone shoot. I don't know the depth chart, but hopefully we have some guards coming back into the rotation soon.

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Cone's season shooting stats are 31% FG and 27% 3-point FG.... this will not get it done. His career stats are much better, so I'm not sure what is going on, perhaps he is pressing too hard. A lot of his shots this season are off balance and high degree of difficulty attempts. Hopefully Madsen can figure out how to reign him in a little and get him open looks where he is more set and in rhythm.

75bear said:

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GoOskie said:

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It was absolutely maddening to watch Cone shoot. I don't know the depth chart, but hopefully we have some guards coming back into the rotation soon.

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Cone's season shooting stats are 31% FG and 27% 3-point FG.... this will not get it done. His career stats are much better, so I'm not sure what is going on, perhaps he is pressing too hard. A lot of his shots this season are off balance and high degree of difficulty attempts. Hopefully Madsen can figure out how to reign him in a little and get him open looks where he is more set and in rhythm.

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He must have gotten more open looks at Northern Arizona.

None of the games will be easy, starting with the next four. I know Santa Clara got blown out by Ohio State but I think sometimes you have to discount these tournament games that are played on consecutive nights. (I know, same situation for Ohio State, but these college teams rarely play two nights in a row so more random things can happen.) Santa Clara looked really good beating both Oregon and Furd, and in our situation I'm just hoping we can hang with them.

Butler always good, MSU on road we're underdogs again. Only game we're possible favored would be UCSan Diego at home, by then hopefully we are healthier.

I think we'll have two key pieces back this Saturday and we'll roll Santa Clara in Haas.

Grandours said:

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I think we'll have two key pieces back this Saturday and we'll roll Santa Clara in Haas.

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I guess you're referring to Celestine and Kennedy, I heard Askew has a way to go. Just curious, have you watched Santa Clara play this year?

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Grandours said:

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I think we'll have two key pieces back this Saturday and we'll roll Santa Clara in Haas.

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I guess you're referring to Celestine and Kennedy, I heard Askew has a way to go. Just curious, have you watched Santa Clara play this year?

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It all depends on our defense. We always can score.

i wouldn't expect too much from Kennedy, they will have to work him back in. I'm sure he will be better than Cone running the team. If you want Cone to shoot less then we need Brown and Newell to shoot more. They just need more confidence.

All of them if the 3 are out there, and all of the past games.

Basketball Bear said:

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i wouldn't expect too much from Kennedy, they will have to work him back in. I'm sure he will be better than Cone running the team. If you want Cone to shoot less then we need Brown and Newell to shoot more. They just need more confidence.

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Is Kennedy supposed to be a PG? I thought he was a shooting guard. Maybe (the dreaded) "combo guard"?

I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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Hardly anyone on the roster is a good passer (for their position). Tyson maybe.

Wilner is still a believer,

"12. Cal (2-5)

Last week: 12Results: lost to Tulane 84-81, lost to San Diego State 76-67Next up: vs. Santa Clara (Saturday)Comment: Our advice: Take the Broncos on Saturday and give the points, regardless of the line."

Bobodeluxe said:

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Wilner is still a believer,

"12. Cal (2-5)

Last week: 12Results: lost to Tulane 84-81, lost to San Diego State 76-67Next up: vs. Santa Clara (Saturday)Comment: Our advice: Take the Broncos on Saturday and give the points, regardless of the line."

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Ouch. Wilner's apparently still bitter over Fox's firing.

Big C said:

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stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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Hardly anyone on the roster is a good passer (for their position). Tyson maybe.

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I'm afraid you're correct. Two measures (of uncertain worth) are assists per minute and assist to turnover ratio. So far Tyson has an assist every 10.6 minutes and 0.83 A/TO, Askew has an assist every 10 minutes and 1.00 A/TO. Next best is Okafor.

Big C said:

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stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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Hardly anyone on the roster is a good passer (for their position). Tyson maybe.

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I think Celestine is the best passer on the roster. And at least he knows how to make all different types of passes. I remember him in a previous season, making a couple of beautiful bounce passes, one in traffic in the lane, and one longer one from the perimeter into a cutter in the paint. I don't think many coaches teach the bounce pass anymore, do they? I see it very seldom. I've seen players confront situations that could well call for a bounce pass, but they either take a low percentage shot themselves, or make a risky pass. But then I watch only Cal games.

hbear777 said:

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All of them if the 3 are out there, and all of the past games.

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And very few of them, if none of the 3 are out there. Remember last season, when Celestine, Askew, and Clayton had injuries the prevented them from ever being on the floor together for even a single minute?

oskidunker said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Grandours said:

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I think we'll have two key pieces back this Saturday and we'll roll Santa Clara in Haas.

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I guess you're referring to Celestine and Kennedy, I heard Askew has a way to go. Just curious, have you watched Santa Clara play this year?

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It all depends on our defense. We always can score.

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We can? Right now, in points scored per game, we are ranked 220th in the NCAA.

75bear said:

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GoOskie said:

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It was absolutely maddening to watch Cone shoot. I don't know the depth chart, but hopefully we have some guards coming back into the rotation soon.

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Cone's season shooting stats are 31% FG and 27% 3-point FG.... this will not get it done. His career stats are much better, so I'm not sure what is going on, perhaps he is pressing too hard. A lot of his shots this season are off balance and high degree of difficulty attempts. Hopefully Madsen can figure out how to reign him in a little and get him open looks where he is more set and in rhythm.

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I'm inclined to agree with you. Cone's shooting percentage at Virginia Tech, against very tough ACC competition were excellent. However, he only started a couple of games, and averaged half the minutes he is playing now. He was an outstanding scorer in North Carolina high school basketball history. Then he dropped down to lower level competition at Northern Arizona, so he may have gotten a little lax or too confident with his shot selection. When he is open, his form looks good. I think he is taking too many shots, and he is not shooting from behind screens, or running his defender into a screen so he can take an open shot. He's a little guy. He plays smaller than the listed 5'-10", IMO. Madsen should run him behind screens. Right now he is trying to create too many of his own shots, again IMO. If Monty was the coach, he would have plays for Cone to take high percentage shots. Monty was Madsen's teacher, so Mark should know something about this, and help put him in position to be successful. Otherwise, maybe Cone is best coming off the bench, and not starting, like he was at Virginia Tech. Right now, I'm not too worried. Shooters often go into slumps which can last several games. Cone is a shooting guard, period, and they need a point guard. Maybe Kennedy?

stu said:

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Big C said:

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stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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Hardly anyone on the roster is a good passer (for their position). Tyson maybe.

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I'm afraid you're correct. Two measures (of uncertain worth) are assists per minute and assist to turnover ratio. So far Tyson has an assist every 10.6 minutes and 0.83 A/TO, Askew has an assist every 10 minutes and 1.00 A/TO. Next best is Okafor.

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What those statistics don't take into account is the offensive scheme. I happen to think Celestine may be our best passer (haven't seen Kennedy yet), but I don't believe that so far any Cal coach seems to have asked him to pass the ball very much. Askew is a puzzle to me. Is he on his own to make a choice when to set up a play or when to take a shot himself? I've seen games over the last 2 seasons where he tried to pass for an assist a lot of times, and seemed to be taking very few times, and games where he called his own number many times. There are games he shoots a lot of 3s, and games where he drives to the basket too much, while his teammates stand around watching.

stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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You have to go back to 1960 for the last time Cal had a team like that.

SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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You have to go back to 1960 for the last time Cal had a team like that.

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The Cal women are close to that this year. Gotcha!

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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You have to go back to 1960 for the last time Cal had a team like that.

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The Cal women are close to that this year. Gotcha!

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Don't quite get that. Cal women have shooters, but if Leilani McIntosh does not fill the description of a true point guard, then I don't know who does.

SFCityBear said:

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hbear777 said:

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All of them if the 3 are out there, and all of the past games.

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And very few of them, if none of the 3 are out there. Remember last season, when Celestine, Askew, and Clayton had injuries the prevented them from ever being on the floor together for even a single minute?

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You've brought that up a few times now. I'm guessing the reason no one else has acknowledged it is because Celestine was out the entire season, so of course they never saw the floor together for even a single minute.

Your point that Fox was also shorthanded last season is correct, but the main difference is that it was season four for the guy, so we had already seen what he was capable of. Madson may or may not right the ship if and when his injured players come back.

Basic point guard problem:
From what we've heard about Kennedy he is more of a defensive specialist.
Jalen Cone fits the point guard description somewhat, but he is a liability on the defensive end. So far opposing teams have ran screens resulting in Cone being posted and he is just too small. It's been a problem.

That leaves Askew. First problem is he's injured very often. Second problem is when he plays he shows point guard mentality, but often his reactions to finish a play correctly are simply too slow. That's been pointed out by several posters on this site.

That leaves Tyson kind of playing "point forward." Problem with that, since we depend on him to be our primary scorer all of the extra ball handling ultimately increases fatigue in his game.

Need to bring in a 4 star PG next year. Anybody got any insight on Wilkinson?

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Basic point guard problem:
From what we've heard about Kennedy he is more of a defensive specialist.
Jalen Cone fits the point guard description somewhat, but he is a liability on the defensive end. So far opposing teams have ran screens resulting in Cone being posted and he is just too small. It's been a problem.

That leaves Askew. First problem is he's injured very often. Second problem is when he plays he shows point guard mentality, but often his reactions to finish a play correctly are simply too slow. That's been pointed out by several posters on this site.

That leaves Tyson kind of playing "point forward." Problem with that, since we depend on him to be our primary scorer all of the extra ball handling ultimately increases fatigue in his game.

Need to bring in a 4 star PG next year. Anybody got any insight on Wilkinson?

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Don't like Tyson at point forward. Ends up jacking up threes instead of working his magic near the basket, which is his strength.

JimSox said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Basic point guard problem:
From what we've heard about Kennedy he is more of a defensive specialist.
Jalen Cone fits the point guard description somewhat, but he is a liability on the defensive end. So far opposing teams have ran screens resulting in Cone being posted and he is just too small. It's been a problem.

That leaves Askew. First problem is he's injured very often. Second problem is when he plays he shows point guard mentality, but often his reactions to finish a play correctly are simply too slow. That's been pointed out by several posters on this site.

That leaves Tyson kind of playing "point forward." Problem with that, since we depend on him to be our primary scorer all of the extra ball handling ultimately increases fatigue in his game.

Need to bring in a 4 star PG next year. Anybody got any insight on Wilkinson?

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Don't like Tyson at point forward. Ends up jacking up threes instead of working his magic near the basket, which is his strength.

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Exactly.

And again let me add. The additional ball handling responsibility requires more energy and ultimately will effect his efficiency when he does take a 3 point shot.

Been saying for months that the weakness in our roster was PG. What first set me off was when we got a fairly-highly recruited 5-11 guard who could score. "Hey, great!" But he's not a PG, he's a "combo guard". Red flag! Run in the opposite direction! (almost as fast as in football, when I hear that we got a "dual-threat quarterback") These are usually euphemistic terms: Fine to have a combo guard in the rotation, just don't expect him to be the main PG.

And maybe its an illusion based on comparison, but it sure doesn't look like JC is 5-11'. (I could be wrong.)

stu said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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I think we can play without a classic PG if we have enough guys who can pass, shoot, and defend the position.

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You have to go back to 1960 for the last time Cal had a team like that.

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The Cal women are close to that this year. Gotcha!

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Don't quite get that. Cal women have shooters, but if Leilani McIntosh does not fill the description of a true point guard, then I don't know who does.

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Many of the others can pass and defend PGs but Leilani is a fantastic PG who can play 40 minutes so they don't have to. BTW in 7 games our women have 100 assists and 99 turnovers, our men have 64 assists and 101 turnovers.

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Ouch! That is dreadful!

Big C said:

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Been saying for months that the weakness in our roster was PG. What first set me off was when we got a fairly-highly recruited 5-11 guard who could score. "Hey, great!" But he's not a PG, he's a "combo guard". Red flag! Run in the opposite direction! (almost as fast as in football, when I hear that we got a "dual-threat quarterback") These are usually euphemistic terms: Fine to have a combo guard in the rotation, just don't expect him to be the main PG.

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Steph Curry, James Harden, and Allen Iverson are all combo guards. It's not a combo guard problem, it's a Cone isn't shooting or scoring well enough to offset his weaknesses problem.

concernedparent said:

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Big C said:

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Been saying for months that the weakness in our roster was PG. What first set me off was when we got a fairly-highly recruited 5-11 guard who could score. "Hey, great!" But he's not a PG, he's a "combo guard". Red flag! Run in the opposite direction! (almost as fast as in football, when I hear that we got a "dual-threat quarterback") These are usually euphemistic terms: Fine to have a combo guard in the rotation, just don't expect him to be the main PG.

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Steph Curry, James Harden, and Allen Iverson are all combo guards. It's not a combo guard problem, it's a Cone isn't shooting or scoring well enough to offset his weaknesses problem.

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Even if Cone is shooting better (and he probably will be... I hope), we lack guards who can facilitate. The guards you mention can also run up assist numbers.