Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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JimSox said:

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Just looked at the box score. Every Cal player in the plus column in the +/-, and every ASU player in the minus column.
Cal played only eight players. And only Newell got significant playing time off the bench. I wonder why no subs in garbage time, at least in the last minute when it was clearly over.

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More than a head scratcher, if someone had been injured it'd be called malpractice. Especially with Tyson's late game legs.

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Asu never took,off the press. Though we were up by a-lot, 5 players who rarely play might have turned the ball,over and made it close.

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And those players who rarely play thank you for your support. And I hope they don't read this forum. Without them sacrificing their bodies at every practice, this team would likely have lost more games than it has.

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This isn't Little League.

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Did you ever sit on the bench before? Those kids would give anything for that one chance to get into a game and show what they can do. They dream of it. They spend countless hours alone or in competition, practicing their shots and their moves, just to get that one chance to play in a game. They pray for it. I'd guess that what was going on in the heads and hearts of bench players in Little League, is true for most or many players in high school, college, pro, and even in the NBA. After a game they read newspapers, and check websites to look at a box score to see if the scorekeeper got their name and stats right, or if they got a mention in the media. Oski may think they are akin to chopped liver, but many keep scrapbooks, or records of their play. And not only these bench players, but I'd guess some of their friends, family and fans look at these things too. I'll bet some of them even read these Forums.

One father of an All-American Cal punter reads them. Years ago I made a negative comment in the BI Football Forum, about his son's punts in one game, and I got a PM from his father, ripping me to shreds, and deservedly so, as he pointed out that I was unaware of the strategy behind some of his son's punts that day. That is why I try anyway to lay off harsh criticism of players, starters, the players at the end of the bench, and all the players in between. They are busting their butts for themselves, their families, their friends, their teammates, their coach, and for us.

JimSox said:

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Just looked at the box score. Every Cal player in the plus column in the +/-, and every ASU player in the minus column.
Cal played only eight players. And only Newell got significant playing time off the bench. I wonder why no subs in garbage time, at least in the last minute when it was clearly over.

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"Clearly over" when it is us leading has not been a part of Cal BB for some time. Must be careful. Great win though.

SFCityBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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JimSox said:

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Just looked at the box score. Every Cal player in the plus column in the +/-, and every ASU player in the minus column.
Cal played only eight players. And only Newell got significant playing time off the bench. I wonder why no subs in garbage time, at least in the last minute when it was clearly over.

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More than a head scratcher, if someone had been injured it'd be called malpractice. Especially with Tyson's late game legs.

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Asu never took,off the press. Though we were up by a-lot, 5 players who rarely play might have turned the ball,over and made it close.

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And those players who rarely play thank you for your support. And I hope they don't read this forum. Without them sacrificing their bodies at every practice, this team would likely have lost more games than it has.

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This isn't Little League.

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Did you ever sit on the bench before? Those kids would give anything for that one chance to get into a game and show what they can do. They dream of it. They spend countless hours alone or in competition, practicing their shots and their moves, just to get that one chance to play in a game. They pray for it. I'd guess that what was going on in the heads and hearts of bench players in Little League, is true for most or many players in high school, college, pro, and even in the NBA. After a game they read newspapers, and check websites to look at a box score to see if the scorekeeper got their name and stats right, or if they got a mention in the media. Oski may think they are akin to chopped liver, but many keep scrapbooks, or records of their play. And not only these bench players, but I'd guess some of their friends, family and fans look at these things too. I'll bet some of them even read these Forums.

One father of an All-American Cal punter reads them. Years ago I made a negative comment in the BI Football Forum, about his son's punts in one game, and I got a PM from his father, ripping me to shreds, and deservedly so, as he pointed out that I was unaware of the strategy behind some of his son's punts that day. That is why I try anyway to lay off harsh criticism of players, starters, the players at the end of the bench, and all the players in between. They are busting their butts for themselves, their families, their friends, their teammates, their coach, and for us.

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Yes, and I don't disagree with anything you said in your latest reply. However, that doesn't mean Madson should play those guys, for those reasons, with the game still in doubt, even if the chance of losing was fairly remote. Hurley still had his guys in pressing as though the game was still on the line and so Madson was right to do the same. Even if you feel there was zero chance of a comeback, the coaches and players didn't feel and play that way. Cal had blown way too many games to take any chances. If anything, it was good experience for the rotation players when they undoubtedly face similar play with the score much closer.

My Little League comment was that coaches aren't required to play all their players a certain amount of innings, or in this case minutes. I have yet to see a good coach at this level empty his bench until after the losing team has called off its dogs.

Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Econ141 said:

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calumnus said:

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oskidunker said:

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Win 6-7 games and we are 15-14 with a shot at The Nit.

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I still want to win the PAC-12 Tournament and get the auto bid to the Big Dance.

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We need to avoid AZ

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Meh. Bring 'em on! If we can't beat them once in three tries we don't deserve a tourney appearance anyway.

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That's modern basketball. Getting 3 chances for an NCAA invite. Back before the NCAA became all about money, it was lose and you're out. In the future, it may be lose an NCAA Tournament game, and you may be placed a loser's bracket and get another chance to win the Tournament. Mark my words.

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It's still lose one and you're out. It's that format that makes the tourney one of the most exciting things in all of sports, and what brings in the big $$$. It would be moronic of the NCAA to kill it...but stranger things have happened.

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Yeah I doubt they tinker with it. The NCAA tourney has a total of 67 games with the play-ins, and every single one is a do or die game. They already are maximizing their slate and revenues, any tampering with the format is going to result in less excitement and be counterproductive to their bottom line.

Unlike the football playoffs, the NCAA Tourney is also very inclusive, there is no need to expand it. If you can't make the cut you don't deserve to be in it, and even there, there is the NIT.

OdontoBear66 said:

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JimSox said:

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Just looked at the box score. Every Cal player in the plus column in the +/-, and every ASU player in the minus column.
Cal played only eight players. And only Newell got significant playing time off the bench. I wonder why no subs in garbage time, at least in the last minute when it was clearly over.

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"Clearly over" when it is us leading has not been a part of Cal BB for some time. Must be careful. Great win though.

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I wasn't criticizing Madsen for not putting the scrubs in, I was just surprised. There was a timeout with 58 seconds left, and we led by 16 and had the ball. Normally that's when you empty the bench, because the game does seem to be over. I don't know if Hurley put his subs in then, but if not, that's surprising, too.

JimSox said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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JimSox said:

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Just looked at the box score. Every Cal player in the plus column in the +/-, and every ASU player in the minus column.
Cal played only eight players. And only Newell got significant playing time off the bench. I wonder why no subs in garbage time, at least in the last minute when it was clearly over.

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"Clearly over" when it is us leading has not been a part of Cal BB for some time. Must be careful. Great win though.

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I wasn't criticizing Madsen for not putting the scrubs in, I was just surprised. There was a timeout with 58 seconds left, and we led by 16 and had the ball. Normally that's when you empty the bench, because the game does seem to be over. I don't know if Hurley put his subs in then, but if not, that's surprising, too.

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Hurley is an idiot.

I agree with JimSox, 58 secs and up 16 is officially garbage time whether Hurley is pressing or not. It's great to say, we don't stop playing until they do, but if one of Cal's starters had a season ending injury (let's say Tyson) in those 58 secs, there would be a whole thread here dedicated to how stupid a move it was.

Ask Madsen next time he has a press conference. He will answer truthfully

barsad said:

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I agree with JimSox, 58 secs and up 16 is officially garbage time whether Hurley is pressing or not. It's great to say, we don't stop playing until they do, but if one of Cal's starters had a season ending injury (let's say Tyson) in those 58 secs, there would be a whole thread here dedicated to how stupid a move it was.

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Yeah, they probably shouldn't practice either.

The Walk ons and rarely used Bowser played in the AZ game with 2 of them getting positive stats

The player I would have subbed in with a minute left would have been bowser and Curtis to get them the experience, not the walk ons with the majority of ASUs players still in the game and trapping

Bobodeluxe said:

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OT: "… don't want to hear another comment suggesting that …"

Perhaps one should not read the comments out loud?

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I hear ya, and see what you're saying.

oskidunker said:

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JimSox said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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JimSox said:

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Just looked at the box score. Every Cal player in the plus column in the +/-, and every ASU player in the minus column.
Cal played only eight players. And only Newell got significant playing time off the bench. I wonder why no subs in garbage time, at least in the last minute when it was clearly over.

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"Clearly over" when it is us leading has not been a part of Cal BB for some time. Must be careful. Great win though.

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I wasn't criticizing Madsen for not putting the scrubs in, I was just surprised. There was a timeout with 58 seconds left, and we led by 16 and had the ball. Normally that's when you empty the bench, because the game does seem to be over. I don't know if Hurley put his subs in then, but if not, that's surprising, too.

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Hurley is an idiot.

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He is a sore loser. He is floundering at ASU, while his younger brother, a much better coach, won the national title last season.

Bobodeluxe said:

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OT: "… don't want to hear another comment suggesting that …"

Perhaps one should not read the comments out loud?

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My bad. Let me correct myself. I should have started the sentence with "...don't want to read another comment suggesting that..." My apologies if my statement was confusing to anyone.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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OT: "… don't want to hear another comment suggesting that …"

Perhaps one should not read the comments out loud?

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My bad. Let me correct myself. I should have started the sentence with "...don't want to read another comment suggesting that..." My apologies if my statement was confusing to anyone.

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Peop,le are en titled to their own opinions. I am happy to hear different points of view.

oskidunker said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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OT: "… don't want to hear another comment suggesting that …"

Perhaps one should not read the comments out loud?

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My bad. Let me correct myself. I should have started the sentence with "...don't want to read another comment suggesting that..." My apologies if my statement was confusing to anyone.

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Peop,le are en titled to their own opinions. I am happy to hear different points of view.

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You're right OD. If someone writes it, I guess I have to read it. I should have just simply said I disagreed with it.

HoopDreams said:

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sandiegobears said:

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You wrote what a lot of people are thinking, the negativity and nit-picking is getting annoying at this point. It doesn't invalidate what someone says, but it's enough already. I think fans just got used to doing that after 7 years of sh*t, and even when the team plays well, they find something to criticize. I don't know why anyone would think every player is going to play perfectly on every possession. For example, Cone shoots a lot, it's what he does, some are certainly questionable, but who doesn't like it when he knocks down three 3s in less than 2 minutes?

We are 2/3 of the way through the season, this team is improving every week, even when they stumble, and Madsen is doing exactly what he said he'd do. In fact, if not for two close losses (one, a buzzer beater), they'd be 7-4 in conference. Are you kidding me? This next stretch to finish the season will be really tough with road games in Washington, Utah/Colorado, plus Oregon at home. But I like where they are at. We should be extremely happy with everything we see, warts and all, this is an F-ton of fun after the last 7 seasons. LFGo Bears!

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agree, I was talking to a former college basketball player (not former Cal) and was talking about fans and how unrealistic they are, especially when they pick apart a single play

His comment was, "have they ever played the game?"

His point was the game moves so fast with so much going on, and when you are on the court you can't see things as well as when you watch from TV, and that there are other factors that affect a player in a situation too (stress, undisclosed injuries, confidence, the fog of war)

Personally, I can't imagine playing in a high level game with this much scrutiny about what I did wrong in a bang bang play. I hope the majority of players don't read social media and sports boards.

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It amazes me the people who don't have this perspective.

sandiegobears said:

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You wrote what a lot of people are thinking, the negativity and nit-picking is getting annoying at this point. It doesn't invalidate what someone says, but it's enough already. I think fans just got used to doing that after 7 years of sh*t, and even when the team plays well, they find something to criticize. I don't know why anyone would think every player is going to play perfectly on every possession. For example, Cone shoots a lot, it's what he does, some are certainly questionable, but who doesn't like it when he knocks down three 3s in less than 2 minutes?

We are 2/3 of the way through the season, this team is improving every week, even when they stumble, and Madsen is doing exactly what he said he'd do. In fact, if not for two close losses (one, a buzzer beater), they'd be 7-4 in conference. Are you kidding me? This next stretch to finish the season will be really tough with road games in Washington, Utah/Colorado, plus Oregon at home. But I like where they are at. We should be extremely happy with everything we see, warts and all, this is an F-ton of fun after the last 7 seasons. LFGo Bears!

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Well here I go, I think I got it now. I liked reading this comment. I agree with it.