barsad said:

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Did someone really claim above that Rooks, Okoreh and Lars were "solid mid-major" centers (I guess playing in the wrong conference?) Call them nice guys, call them well-intentioned, but they (like many who came before them) were not up to the standard of skills you need to play in March Madness. So let's stop saying "good enough for Cal" and start expecting "good enough for a March Madness berth."

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I posted that but only to contrast how good Daws is (without dissing former cal players)

My point is I read so much criticism of Daws who has been the best Cal center in decades, yet I see some posters comparing him unfavorably to NBA legends or saying he is a liability on the court.

P. S. he blocked 3 shots in the two point win over UW, including the last UW shot at the buzzer

I appreciate the stat comparison on Grant and Gus, but you can only do so much with it. When you watch these guys play it's kind of obvious that Grant is more of a 3/4, and Gus is more of a 4/5. Because of Okafor's injury, who to use in specific situations for the rest of the year will come into play randomly. I would think MM still has to use matchups, time and score, foul situations into making a decision.

Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

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Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

barsad said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

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Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

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For better or worse, that is the new reality with the portal and NIL, I have the same feelings but it seems like it will be the new norm.

rkt88edmo said:

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barsad said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

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Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

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For better or worse, that is the new reality with the portal and NIL, I have the same feelings but it seems like it will be the new norm.

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Actually, when I said I hoped Madsen would bring in a solid 4 and 5, my hope wasn't based solely on the transfer portal. I also realize that finding someone that good as a freshman is very difficult. But I'm hoping cautiously that now that MM is already here, he has a better chance to mix some HS recruits into the mix along with the transfers.

rkt88edmo said:

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barsad said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

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Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

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For better or worse, that is the new reality with the portal and NIL, I have the same feelings but it seems like it will be the new norm.

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Portal doesn't necessarily mean one year. Tyson actually has another year, but the double-edged sword of him being so good may make him a one-year player for us anyway. On the football side, many (most?) of our transfer players are multi-year players for Cal.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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rkt88edmo said:

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barsad said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

---

Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

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For better or worse, that is the new reality with the portal and NIL, I have the same feelings but it seems like it will be the new norm.

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Actually, when I said I hoped Madsen would bring in a solid 4 and 5, my hope wasn't based solely on the transfer portal. I also realize that finding someone that good as a freshman is very difficult. But I'm hoping cautiously that now that MM is already here, he has a better chance to mix some HS recruits into the mix along with the transfers.

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I'm thinking Madsen looks for the big man who was very good in high school, but stuck on the bench behind a better player in college. Madsen's own background should appeal to such a player. Hopefully, they have 2-3 years of eligibility so we can watch them mature.

Alternatively, I'd like to see Cal do more to get overseas players. And I'm talking about guys who are a couple of steps up from Lars. BTW, I just checked Lars' bio on the LMU BBall page and in response to "What three people in history would you invite to dinner?", he listed Einstein, Plato, and Tesla. Nice! Anyway, my point is that Cal has a worldwide reputation, so should be able to attract good overseas players of all sizes.

drizzlybear said:

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rkt88edmo said:

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barsad said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

---

Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

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For better or worse, that is the new reality with the portal and NIL, I have the same feelings but it seems like it will be the new norm.

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Portal doesn't necessarily mean one year. Tyson actually has another year, but the double-edged sword of him being so good may make him a one-year player for us anyway. On the football side, many (most?) of our transfer players are multi-year players for Cal.

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Most college hoops teams play a 7 or 8 man rotation. Some will go deeper but as the season gets closer to post season most teams shorten the rotations.

So you need to add players that can play now and be effective. It is true that you can add players with multiple seasons of eligibility but the players you add have to be able to play now and impact the won-loss record. Tyson will almost certainly declare for the draft. So Cal will need to replace 4 starters. And keep Brown, Celestine and Newell happy. I think if either Askew or Okafor want out nobody will be begging either to stay. Bowser likely leaves. Larson and Curtis likely stay. Pavlovic I have no idea.

They have 1 HS recruit signed. I expect them to sign at least 3 or 4 portal guys and possibly another 1 or 2 HS guys or international players. The program needs to develop from within some, but needs to win now. So sure any additions can have multiple seasons remaining. But they have to be able to play. And play well.

I hope they can add portal guys that can play that have multiple seasons of eligibility. But they have to be able to impact the record regardless of their eligible seasons remaining.

6956bear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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rkt88edmo said:

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barsad said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Moving past this season I think this comparison goes away because I fully expect Madsen to bring in a couple of guys to fill the 4 and 5 role, whether it's as a starter or a reserve.

---

Though I hope you're right about Madsen working some transfer magic, I have mixed feelings about using the portal every year to fill two or three starting roles. Presumably then next year's starting five (assuming no Jaylon) is Celestine, a healthy Okafor, a grad year guy (Askew?) and two transfer mystery men? I just worry that team chemistry suffers with all the uncertainty and turnover, not a recipe for a tourney team. Help us Mad Dog!

---

For better or worse, that is the new reality with the portal and NIL, I have the same feelings but it seems like it will be the new norm.

---

Portal doesn't necessarily mean one year. Tyson actually has another year, but the double-edged sword of him being so good may make him a one-year player for us anyway. On the football side, many (most?) of our transfer players are multi-year players for Cal.

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Most college hoops teams play a 7 or 8 man rotation. Some will go deeper but as the season gets closer to post season most teams shorten the rotations.

So you need to add players that can play now and be effective. It is true that you can add players with multiple seasons of eligibility but the players you add have to be able to play now and impact the won-loss record. Tyson will almost certainly declare for the draft. So Cal will need to replace 4 starters. And keep Brown, Celestine and Newell happy. I think if either Askew or Okafor want out nobody will be begging either to stay. Bowser likely leaves. Larson and Curtis likely stay. Pavlovic I have no idea.

They have 1 HS recruit signed. I expect them to sign at least 3 or 4 portal guys and possibly another 1 or 2 HS guys or international players. The program needs to develop from within some, but needs to win now. So sure any additions can have multiple seasons remaining. But they have to be able to play. And play well.

I hope they can add portal guys that can play that have multiple seasons of eligibility. But they have to be able to impact the record regardless of their eligible seasons remaining.

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You speak the truth. Right now Cal has the talent to win about two games next year. Brown, Celestine and Newell can play. Okafor is a maybe. Wilkinson is blowing up but I will not believe in him until I see a game tape. Every player brought in who can play will add wins. Cal is not in a position to be choosy.

Absolutely spot on about Cal not being in the position to be choosy. My cautiously optimistic hope is that Madsen rises to the task and thus, each year moving forward we get to be just a bit more choosy than we were the year before.

I can see Tyson getting evaluated by the NBA and returning. I don't see him having an obvious NBA position. He will be a 2. Can he guard Clay Thompson? He doesn't appear to shoot well enough to be an offensive threat in the NBA. So, does he go to "G" league or come back for NIL? I think he comes back.

bearchamp said:

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I can see Tyson getting evaluated by the NBA and returning. I don't see him having an obvious NBA position. He will be a 2. Can he guard Clay Thompson? He doesn't appear to shoot well enough to be an offensive threat in the NBA. So, does he go to "G" league or come back for NIL? I think he comes back.

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I'm not sure you're watching a lot of nba games if you don't think he can guard klay

ducky23 said:

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bearchamp said:

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I can see Tyson getting evaluated by the NBA and returning. I don't see him having an obvious NBA position. He will be a 2. Can he guard Clay Thompson? He doesn't appear to shoot well enough to be an offensive threat in the NBA. So, does he go to "G" league or come back for NIL? I think he comes back.

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I'm not sure you're watching a lot of nba games if you don't think he can guard klay

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Also positions are so 2014. I have no idea what position most Warriors play. Sometimes Payton appears to be the 4 at like 6'2''.

The question is whether Tyson brings something to the table, and I think he brings a lot. In particular, I think he is very difficult to keep from the basket. His shot is up and down, but will likely get better when he is a real pro. And I think he can be a solid defender when he is the fourth or fifth scoring option, as I think he will be if he makes it to the NBA.

But we can have the Tyson pro debate in many other threads.