WSU's Roster

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sluggo
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3:40p, 2/23/24
It is amazing to me that WSU has built the best or nearly the best team in the conference with so many defections. They don't have many fans, and I doubt they have much money. So how did the do it? A cursory look suggests great scouting.

They have two great players who came from small schools. Wells came from Sonoma and Jones came from Idaho. Cal football has targeted players from smaller schools, and maybe hoops can too.

They have four players that are foreign born. The countries are Macedonia, Australia, Nigeria, and France. Not sure if they arrived directly.

They have two Americans. I have no idea why a player as good as Rice went there.

I think this shows that good scouting can overcome a lot. There may be more to the story than I know. Maybe someone can fill in more details.
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calumnus
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In reply to sluggo • 4:13p, 2/23/24
sluggo said:
It is amazing to me that WSU has built the best or nearly the best team in the conference with so many defections. They don't have many fans, and I doubt they have much money. So how did the do it? A cursory look suggests great scouting.

They have two great players who came from small schools. Wells came from Sonoma and Jones came from Idaho. Cal football has targeted players from smaller schools, and maybe hoops can too.

They have four players that are foreign born. The countries are Macedonia, Australia, Nigeria, and France. Not sure if they arrived directly.

They have two Americans. I have no idea why a player as good as Rice went there.

I think this shows that good scouting can overcome a lot. There may be more to the story than I know. Maybe someone can fill in more details.


Since his days as an assistant at USD and St. Mary's Kyle Smith has developed "Nerdball" essentially Moneyball for basketball recruiting. He doesn't care what a player looks like. He is very into the advanced stats. Samahan at St Mary's was the poster child for a guy who was not recruited by others because of the way he looked. The discussion on this board supporting Fox starting freshman Thiemann over sophomore Andre Kelly (or Charles Barkley early in his career) epitomized the fallacy. Smith uses databases and advanced stats to spread a wide net and identify players for closer evaluation.

Add: just saw this article

https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/pac-12-hoop-notebook-feb-19
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Johnfox
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In reply to sluggo • 7:29p, 2/23/24
Rice went under the radar in high school. Jakimovski is a spot up shooter (similar to Celestine) although not as athletic. Jaylen Wells is shooting out of his mind from 3. Isaac Jones also went under the radar (really good). We almost got Oscar Cluff last year, but Smith pulled him in. The WSU assistant has great connections with NBA Academy in Africa (Efe Abogidi, Reuben Chinyelu). Kyle Smith scouts under the radar players from small high schools and is able to get them to the Palouse due to not a lot of NIL.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to Johnfox • 9:31p, 2/23/24
Johnfox said:
Rice went under the radar in high school. Jakimovski is a spot up shooter (similar to Celestine) although not as athletic. Jaylen Wells is shooting out of his mind from 3. Isaac Jones also went under the radar (really good). We almost got Oscar Cluff last year, but Smith pulled him in. The WSU assistant has great connections with NBA Academy in Africa (Efe Abogidi, Reuben Chinyelu). Kyle Smith scouts under the radar players from small high schools and is able to get them to the Palouse due to not a lot of NIL.
the amazing thing is WSU had Guard Justin Powell (now plays in the NBA), All-Pac12 and All-Pac12 defensive player Mouhamed Gueye, 6*11 forward (now in NBA), All-Pac12 SF Bamba (transferred to Villanova), 7 foot center Adrame Diongue (#40 HS recruit a year ago), and Rodman (transferred to USC)

If Gueye, Powell and Bamba stayed, WSU could be a final four team

Amazing recruiting
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bearister
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In reply to calumnus • 9:37p, 2/23/24
I don't recall there ever being a Lars vs Andre debate. That was no contest:

Andre Kelly PTS 9 TRB 6
Lars Thieman PTS 5.3 TRB 3.6

The debate was Lars vs Twin Pigtails Boy
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HoopDreams
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In reply to bearister • 9:44p, 2/23/24
bearister said:
I don't recall there ever being a Lars vs Andre debate. That was no contest:

Andre Kelly PTS 9 TRB 6
Lars Thieman PTS 5.3 TRB 3.6

The debate was Lars vs Twin Pigtails Boy
certainly wasn't from me. I often defended Lars, but Kelly was my man
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drizzlybear
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1:37a, 2/24/24
I think even Smith might be a little surprised. He made comments during the off-season lamenting how the nil/transfer has made it impossible for schools like wsu to compete with the big boys. I think he was particularly bitter about losing Rodman, after Rodman had made a big public announcement that he was coming back to wsu, but then didn't.

Rice has emerged from missing a year to Leukemia and is out-performing his stature as a HS recruit. He's beautiful to watch play (has a Curry-like swagger). I think he's got strong bond with wsu for going through his cancer with him, but i wonder if he gets poached after this season.

I could never understand how wsu so badly underperformed their excellent roster last year and didn't even make the tournament. Then they lost everyone, so I wrote them off for dead this year. And look at them now. Kudos to Smith.
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calumnus
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In reply to bearister • 2:51a, 2/24/24
bearister said:
I don't recall there ever being a Lars vs Andre debate. That was no contest:

Andre Kelly PTS 9 TRB 6
Lars Thieman PTS 5.3 TRB 3.6

The debate was Lars vs Twin Pigtails Boy


People defenitely defended Fox that first year for not starting Kelly and playing Thiemann, blaming Kelly for not being "in shape" and "not being able to play more" than the 20 minutes Fox was giving him.

Kenyon Jones, Malik McMorris…
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HearstMining
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In reply to calumnus • 7:13a, 2/24/24
calumnus said:
bearister said:
I don't recall there ever being a Lars vs Andre debate. That was no contest:

Andre Kelly PTS 9 TRB 6
Lars Thieman PTS 5.3 TRB 3.6

The debate was Lars vs Twin Pigtails Boy


People defenitely defended Fox that first year for not starting Kelly and playing Thiemann, blaming Kelly for not being "in shape" and "not being able to play more" than the 20 minutes Fox was giving him.

Kenyon Jones, Malik McMorris…
No point in putting "in shape" in quotes. I was also a big Kelly fan but he wasn't in shape his freshman year - all you had to do was compare the sophomore Kelly (-25 lbs) to appreciate the difference in both his appearance and his play.

That being said, I think Fox vastly overrated Lars' potential - maybe he was overly impressed that Lars was on Sweden's U19 team and then played him hoping he'd bloom. Vintage Fox: lousy recruiter, lousy program builder, nasty personality, anything else I'm missing?
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Johnfox
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In reply to HoopDreams • 7:23a, 2/24/24
IMO, Rice is a upgrade from Bamba and Wells in an upgrade from Powell. Losing Gueye was tough as he's better than both bigs, but Rodman wasn't so tough. They just asked Jakimovski to step up and he did.
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to bearister • 7:57a, 2/24/24
bearister said:
I don't recall there ever being a Lars vs Andre debate. That was no contest:

Andre Kelly PTS 9 TRB 6
Lars Thieman PTS 5.3 TRB 3.6

The debate was Lars vs Twin Pigtails Boy
Not even neccessary to put up stats re Lars vs. Andre. All you had to do was watch a couple of games.
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OdontoBear66
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8:16a, 2/24/24
Not to undermine my respect for Kyle Smith as a coach at all, but before the world of NIL got so wild and the "student-athlete" became a "business-athlete", WSU had a decided advantage over at least half the schools in the Pac12 because their academic profile was at so much a lower level. Said differently they could recruit players who could not survive at half or better of the schools in the old Pac12. I sense that has all changed recently and most recently in the last few days. Open warfare for players, not student players necessarily.
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GoCal80
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8:27a, 2/24/24
This article gave me the impression that the WSU coach was as surprised as anyone by the success of his team since they had to pull together a roster so quickly.
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bearister
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 8:39a, 2/24/24
I deal with admissible evidence, not opinion.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to bearister • 8:43a, 2/24/24
bearister said:
I deal with admissible evidence, not opinion.
Allow me to repeat the famous Vin Scully quote:

"Statistics are like girls wearing bikinis. They show a lot, but they don't show everything."
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HearstMining
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9:54a, 2/24/24
Sounds like WSU has additional problems aside from just its future in the Pac-2:
https://www.columbian.com/news/2024/feb/23/washington-state-university-faculty-members-publish-open-letter-calling-on-wsu-president-kirk-schulz-other-administrators-to-step-down/
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drizzlybear
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In reply to GoCal80 • 10:02a, 2/24/24
GoCal80 said:
This article gave me the impression that the WSU coach was as surprised as anyone by the success of his team since they had to pull together a roster so quickly.

Hadn't seen the article, but that's the impression I was referring to in my post above.
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drizzlybear
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In reply to Johnfox • 10:06a, 2/24/24
Johnfox said:
IMO, Rice is a upgrade from Bamba and Wells in an upgrade from Powell. Losing Gueye was tough as he's better than both bigs, but Rodman wasn't so tough. They just asked Jakimovski to step up and he did.

Smith was crushed by Rodman's departure. He spoke publicly about it being "heartbreaking". He literally jumped into Rodman's arms when Rodman announced he'd be coming back to wsu (before later bolting for usc).

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