How the California Legends Collective Works

3,185 Views | 13 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by Johnfox
Sebastabear
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While I generally dislike starting new threads, there seems to be some confusion around our collective and i thought it would be helpful to respond to some of those posts in a single place rather than having them buried in different discussions. Read on if you are interested.

Those who have said our collective is different than others are correct. There are things we do not and will not do that are pretty common across the industry. It is distressingly common, for example, to see promises to players broken. They are often promised vast sums in NIL earnings if they come to XYZ school only to see those promises disappearing. Players often find their promised payments going poof if they get hurt, passed over on the depth chart, fail to live up to expectations or just the collective runs out of money or reprioritizes its spending. Happens literally every day.

We don't do any of that. We fundamentally believe that a contract is binding and our word is our word (whether distilled into a contract or not). If a player commits to Cal, stays in good standing in school and doesn't enter the transfer portal we are going to give them every dime we promised them. We have never failed to do so. Matt Cindric got hurt five minutes into our first football game and he got 100% of his money for the season. A number of our MBB players missed significant playing time because of injury and it didn't impact their NIL payments by one dime. And that's not going to change while I am running this.

Pay to play is technically not permitted under the NCAA rules. You can't give players a certain amount in NIL for points scored, games played, etc. It's flatly prohibited although, as noted by others, the NCAA's ability to enforce any of its rules these days is highly suspect. But this is a rule we are going to continue following because we think it makes business sense. Eventually enough players will learn which collectives are "good guys" and which are "bad guys" and it should help our coaches with recruiting. That is not to say that the bad guys won't occasionally win recruiting battles. We've all seen that in life - sometimes evil does in fact triumph. But (to paraphrase MLK) we believe that while the arc of the moral universe is long, it bends toward justice. Ultimately this is the better business approach. We should see better returns than those who tack a different way. But more importantly than any of that, lying to teenagers (or anyone else for that matter) is gross and we won't do it.

None of this, however, has anything to do with our fundraising or our ability to get funds to our players. We can and do get "true" NIL (i.e. not pay to play) opportunities to our players, but the money is just as green. And far more certain than what other collectives will deliver despite their promises. So we don't lose portal recruits because we can't effectively get them paid. That's just not a thing. We can find plenty of ways to pay them.

The issue is fundraising. Our fundraising for football has, after some tense periods, come out in a very good spot. Our fundraising for MBB is also going well, but we clearly need more money to truly compete in the ACC. And we, and Coach Madsen, are working furiously to secure that. I am very grateful to the significant number of people who have stepped forward with major gifts for MBB. But I am also candidly frustrated with the large number of alumni who seem to be engaged in some kind of donor cosplay. They have the means and want to appear to be major donors but they won't do the most single most cost-effective thing they can do to help. Which is to write a five or six or even seven figure check to the collective for MBB. I think too many of our donors lost the thread somewhere along the way. They think supporting the program means showing up and bemoaning our lack of success on the court and then getting back in their Mercedes and driving away. It doesn't. You want to support the program then support it.

Please note here that I am not talking about the handful of people who have given millions to Cal athletics but yet aren't major NIL donors. They have done plenty for Cal already and while I wish a few of them would come out differently than they have, it's their call. I don't tell people how they have to spend their money and they're the only reason we still have a program at all. Here I'm talking about people of means who like to pretend like they are "insiders" and yet are nowhere to be found when the hat gets passed. They need to do better.

Had a good meeting yesterday with our AD and there are some initiatives in the works that I am very confident will soon help us fully close the gap between where we are and where we want to be in MBB. I have no interest in watching a 13 win team again next year. We have one chance to make a splash with our first year in the ACC and this is it. One way or the other we are going to get there.

Thanks for reading.

https://calegends.com/calegendsdonate/
parentswerebears
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Thank you for the succinct description of the collective. I hope that your efforts prove fruitful. Thank you for your hard work.
DaveT
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Thank you for a fantastic and informative post (as well as for all the hard work you and your team are doing to help Cal athletics).

I wish I could pony up a sizeable contribution, but I'm unfortunately a small fish. To the extent it's helpful, I can give a little feedback as a donor who has chipped in a few hundred dollars to the collective, and could (and may) dig a little deeper - although never deep enough to move the needle.

The most effective thing I've seen the collective do (from my limited perspective) was the matching challenge when we landed in the ACC. I donated multiple times, and far in excess of what I originally anticipated. That was in part because it seemed like my dollar was going further since a generous donor was matching it, but also because we kept getting updates as the goal got closer.

I literally checked this board multiple times a day to get updates, and nearly every time I popped in a little more money just to help (in a small way) get to the goal. It's obviously an effective tool that many non-profits use for fundraising, but it sure worked on me.

While I know larger donors need to be the focus, I also believe a motivated group of alums who can make smaller donations can, in aggregate, help a bit at least at the margin. Maybe there's a way to merge the two - a larger donor who may be willing to match if not make an outright contribution, and the rest of us little guys having an additional incentive to help out as well.

Thanks again for everything you and the collective do!
sandiegobears
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Good info and good work so far. I have questions:

1. Why is the outreach and emphasis to the small guy (me and 99% of my friends) not there? It seems like this has been mentioned more than once, that the big fish have more impact. $20 per month x 12 months x 20 close Cal friends = $4,800. If those 20 hit up another 10 each, it's $48,000. According to Google, there are over 450,000 living Cal alums. Let's say the 1% is the 1%, that still leaves 445,000. A reach of only 2% of 445,000 is 8,900 x 12 x $20 = $2,136,000 per year. People are more than willing to let their Amazon Prime, Hulu, AppleTV+ and all manner of subscriptions just sit while they don't use them, this seems like no brainer to get them to buy a Cal monthly sub, in return for something, perhaps?

2. Do you have "Venmo to Calegends NIL" booths setup at sporting events? Seems like people would chip in $10 or $20 on their way in to a game. Or is there a rule that won't allow this?

3. Why is the Cal Legends "gear" branded for Cal Legends? In 0.001 seconds, I'd buy $200 worth of Cal gear to fund NIL. No offense, I have zero interest in Cal Legends gear, at least as it's designed right now. SDSU has an NIL store with branded gear: https://sdsu.nil.store/ I'm sure it's a licensing issue, note that Mesa Foundation is more similar to Cal Legends, they have their own gear.

Not picking nits, just being honest about a few things that I've wondered about, perhaps you can reply?
Sebastabear
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sandiegobears said:

Good info and good work so far. I have questions:

1. Why is the outreach and emphasis to the small guy (me and 99% of my friends) not there? It seems like this has been mentioned more than once, that the big fish have more impact. $20 per month x 12 months x 20 close Cal friends = $4,800. If those 20 hit up another 10 each, it's $48,000. According to Google, there are over 450,000 living Cal alums. Let's say the 1% is the 1%, that still leaves 445,000. A reach of only 2% of 445,000 is 8,900 x 12 x $20 = $2,136,000 per year. People are more than willing to let their Amazon Prime, Hulu, AppleTV+ and all manner of subscriptions just sit while they don't use them, this seems like no brainer to get them to buy a Cal monthly sub, in return for something, perhaps?

2. Do you have "Venmo to Calegends NIL" booths setup at sporting events? Seems like people would chip in $10 or $20 on their way in to a game. Or is there a rule that won't allow this?

3. Why is the Cal Legends "gear" branded for Cal Legends? In 0.001 seconds, I'd buy $200 worth of Cal gear to fund NIL. No offense, I have zero interest in Cal Legends gear, at least as it's designed right now. SDSU has an NIL store with branded gear: https://sdsu.nil.store/ I'm sure it's a licensing issue, note that Mesa Foundation is more similar to Cal Legends, they have their own gear.

Not picking nits, just being honest about a few things that I've wondered about, perhaps you can reply?
Will try to hit briefly.

1. On smaller donors. As I've written many times, we started out the collective with this being our exact target. Get 10,000 people to give you $100/month and you're done. Boom. This was also how many collectives launched. What we all found, and it's not just Cal, is that this broad based subscription model for small donors just doesn't work. To be blunt, there aren't enough of you. We can't get 500 people to do this, much less 10,000. Across all universities, only Tennessee has achieved anything like this and I think they have about 3,500 subscribers. There are lots of Cal alumni. There are a fraction of those who care about our (historically underperforming) revenue sports. There are a fraction of this fraction who support NIL as a concept. And there are a fraction of a fraction of this fraction who will actually write the checks. Most of them are on BI.

As I've said many times, we appreciate all donors. We are grateful for our donors. We need all donors. But the focus and the emphasis has to be on those who can move the needle. So that's what we're doing. And it has worked.

2. We are an all volunteer organization. Part of the reason that 100% of all the money gets passed along to athletes is we have historically had no paid staff. So organizing Venmo booths (much less working through all the complexity of it) just isn't in the cards. Speaking of cards, we sold trading cards in person at the football games. It was a huge amount of work. It generated virtually no money. It's a nice form of community building but it doesn't move the needle. And I'm only in this to move the needle. We need to do things that make real money for us. But if you or anyone else feels like we're missing the boat on this, I would say don't just post about it on BI. Feel free to organize your friends and neighbors. Create a GoFundMe. Whatever. This isn't my collective. It's our collective. Anyone who thinks they can help should.

3. Answer is licensing. Sorry you don't like our gear. But again, see point 1.
eastcoastcal
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sandiegobears said:

Good info and good work so far. I have questions:

1. Why is the outreach and emphasis to the small guy (me and 99% of my friends) not there? It seems like this has been mentioned more than once, that the big fish have more impact. $20 per month x 12 months x 20 close Cal friends = $4,800. If those 20 hit up another 10 each, it's $48,000. According to Google, there are over 450,000 living Cal alums. Let's say the 1% is the 1%, that still leaves 445,000. A reach of only 2% of 445,000 is 8,900 x 12 x $20 = $2,136,000 per year. People are more than willing to let their Amazon Prime, Hulu, AppleTV+ and all manner of subscriptions just sit while they don't use them, this seems like no brainer to get them to buy a Cal monthly sub, in return for something, perhaps?

2. Do you have "Venmo to Calegends NIL" booths setup at sporting events? Seems like people would chip in $10 or $20 on their way in to a game. Or is there a rule that won't allow this?

3. Why is the Cal Legends "gear" branded for Cal Legends? In 0.001 seconds, I'd buy $200 worth of Cal gear to fund NIL. No offense, I have zero interest in Cal Legends gear, at least as it's designed right now. SDSU has an NIL store with branded gear: https://sdsu.nil.store/ I'm sure it's a licensing issue, note that Mesa Foundation is more similar to Cal Legends, they have their own gear.

Not picking nits, just being honest about a few things that I've wondered about, perhaps you can reply?
1. The amount of time, $, energy needed to engage in something grassroots like that is immense and it existed- at the launch of Calegends there were subscription benefits & all these ancillary things. However the lion's share, as I understand it, came from bigger checks. To use your numbers, the reality is a significant portion of the 450k alumni are not interested in sports. Out of those who are, some chunk are not financially capable of donating, may have some moral opposition, or some other hurdle. The volume gets cut down significantly, well beyond even the 2% mark you suggest. The ROI just isn't there for small donations. This isn't to say that you shouldn't donate- please do! In fact, there's nothing stopping anyone from setting up a GoFundMe and organizing a social media campaign. Literally nobody will stop you! Offer up your own $5k or $10k match! But the focus on the collective side can & should be more sizable checks.

Can't answer 2 and my suspicion regarding 3 is that there is some amount of Legal involved with licensing the Cal logo (by the way, Beastmode has some great stuff). Also my intention with this reply isn't to put words in SB's mouth- I am not a part of the collective so my bad if any of the above is incorrect. But I've read enough & seen enough replies along a similar vein to jump in. Hope this helps!


edit: whoops sebastabear replied as I was writing. my bad!
blungld
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Pin this thread!
Sebastabear
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eastcoastcal said:

sandiegobears said:

Good info and good work so far. I have questions:

1. Why is the outreach and emphasis to the small guy (me and 99% of my friends) not there? It seems like this has been mentioned more than once, that the big fish have more impact. $20 per month x 12 months x 20 close Cal friends = $4,800. If those 20 hit up another 10 each, it's $48,000. According to Google, there are over 450,000 living Cal alums. Let's say the 1% is the 1%, that still leaves 445,000. A reach of only 2% of 445,000 is 8,900 x 12 x $20 = $2,136,000 per year. People are more than willing to let their Amazon Prime, Hulu, AppleTV+ and all manner of subscriptions just sit while they don't use them, this seems like no brainer to get them to buy a Cal monthly sub, in return for something, perhaps?

2. Do you have "Venmo to Calegends NIL" booths setup at sporting events? Seems like people would chip in $10 or $20 on their way in to a game. Or is there a rule that won't allow this?

3. Why is the Cal Legends "gear" branded for Cal Legends? In 0.001 seconds, I'd buy $200 worth of Cal gear to fund NIL. No offense, I have zero interest in Cal Legends gear, at least as it's designed right now. SDSU has an NIL store with branded gear: https://sdsu.nil.store/ I'm sure it's a licensing issue, note that Mesa Foundation is more similar to Cal Legends, they have their own gear.

Not picking nits, just being honest about a few things that I've wondered about, perhaps you can reply?
1. The amount of time, $, energy needed to engage in something grassroots like that is immense and it existed- at the launch of Calegends there were subscription benefits & all these ancillary things. However the lion's share, as I understand it, came from bigger checks. To use your numbers, the reality is a significant portion of the 450k alumni are not interested in sports. Out of those who are, some chunk are not financially capable of donating, may have some moral opposition, or some other hurdle. The volume gets cut down significantly, well beyond even the 2% mark you suggest. The ROI just isn't there for small donations. This isn't to say that you shouldn't donate- please do! In fact, there's nothing stopping anyone from setting up a GoFundMe and organizing a social media campaign. Literally nobody will stop you! Offer up your own $5k or $10k match! But the focus on the collective side can & should be more sizable checks.

Can't answer 2 and my suspicion regarding 3 is that there is some amount of Legal involved with licensing the Cal logo (by the way, Beastmode has some great stuff). Also my intention with this reply isn't to put words in SB's mouth- I am not a part of the collective so my bad if any of the above is incorrect. But I've read enough & seen enough replies along a similar vein to jump in. Hope this helps!


edit: whoops sebastabear replied as I was writing. my bad!
You basically nailed it. I'm going to hire you to write my replies from now on.
oskidunker
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Do you think we might have any players sign in the next few weeks? Also is there any chance the players that left might come back?
Go Bears!
Sebastabear
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oskidunker said:

Do you think we might have any players sign in the next few weeks? Also is there any chance the players that left might come back?


Might have some clarity sooner than you think . . .
6956bear
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oskidunker said:

Do you think we might have any players sign in the next few weeks? Also is there any chance the players that left might come back?
Just my likely very unpopular opinion, but there are really very few players that once they enter I would take back. Tyson is a maybe. The others? No thanks.
chezzers
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Tyson as a maybe? Any team in the country would take him in a heartbeat.
6956bear
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chezzers said:

Tyson as a maybe? Any team in the country would take him in a heartbeat.


Probably. But this Cal team needs 10 players. Is there a number that you can't or won't meet?

As a stand alone player sure he is valuable. But is he worth spending the money to bring him back if it limits the ability to put a competitive team around him?

That is why a maybe. Not because of ability or performance.
Johnfox
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I'd take Tyson back and no one else. According to Sebasta, we may have some news of possible transfer commits!
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