Way too much dribbling.
Cal vs Vanderbilt
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Last: 4 days ago by Big C
Looks a lot like a pick up game when one team is really hung over
If Vandy wasn't an awful 3 point shooting team this would look really ugly.
anieves said:
If Vandy wasn't an awful 3 point shooting team this would look really ugly.
I think we are seeing who should start and get a lot of minutes. Problem is Blackshear is not a great ball handler-so where do we go? Tucker hasn't played much
?? Blacksher is a great ball handler. He's just too small. Wilkinson's ball handling is suspect.oskidunker said:anieves said:
If Vandy wasn't an awful 3 point shooting team this would look really ugly.
I think we are seeing who should start and get a lot of minutes. Problem is Blackshear is not a great ball handler-so where do we go? Tucker hasn't played much
Unfortunately, he lacks quickness.concernedparent said:?? Blacksher is a great ball handler. He's just too small. Wilkinson's ball handling is suspect.oskidunker said:anieves said:
If Vandy wasn't an awful 3 point shooting team this would look really ugly.
I think we are seeing who should start and get a lot of minutes. Problem is Blackshear is not a great ball handler-so where do we go? Tucker hasn't played much
If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
Has there been a rules change? How was that not rim interference?
First of all, congratulations to Coach Madsen and his family.
Second of all, for those of you not familiar with Vandy, Memorial Gym in Nashville is one of the toughest places to play in college basketball. It has a very unique and unorthodox setup that confounds opponents.
Second of all, for those of you not familiar with Vandy, Memorial Gym in Nashville is one of the toughest places to play in college basketball. It has a very unique and unorthodox setup that confounds opponents.
oskidunker said:
We should have a height advantage. They are a poor three point shooting team. I suspect turnovers will determine who wins,munless we get jobbed ny the refs.
Bump
NYCGOBEARS said:
These SEC super homer announcers are tough to listen to.
Not particularly surprising. The color commentator is Shan Foster (pronounced SHANE), a former star player at Vanderbilt from 2004-2008.
He was a 2nd round pick in the 2008 NBA Draft by the Dallas Mavericks, but he wound up playing professionally overseas in Italy, Belgium, Turkey, and the Dominican Republic.
Foster was a great player at Vandy under former coach Kevin Stallings. He was their all-time leader in both points and three-point baskets made, and is also among the SEC's all-time leaders with consecutive games with a made three-pointer. He was a AP second team All-American for the 2007-2008 college basketball season.
thanks, great idea for next time too.oscarsBBurger said:
..switched to 810am to hear Justin, WAY BETTER
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
VolunteerReverie said:NYCGOBEARS said:
These SEC super homer announcers are tough to listen to.
Not particularly surprising. The color commentator is Shan Foster (pronounced SHANE), a former star player at Vanderbilt from 2004-2008.
He was a 2nd round pick in the 2008 NBA Draft by the Dallas Mavericks, but he wound up playing professionally overseas in Italy, Belgium, Turkey, and the Dominican Republic.
Foster was a great player at Vandy under former coach Kevin Stallings. He was their all-time leader in both points and three-point baskets made, and is also among the SEC's all-time leaders with consecutive games with a made three-pointer. He was a AP second team All-American for the 2007-2008 college basketball season.
6 assists (19 for Vanderbilt). Yikes. Way too much one-on-one ball. Keep playing like that and it's going to be a very ugly year.oskidunker said:oskidunker said:
We should have a height advantage. They are a poor three point shooting team. I suspect turnovers will determine who wins,munless we get jobbed ny the refs.
Bump
Guards had a horrific night. Could not get the ball into our spots.HKBear97! said:6 assists (19 for Vanderbilt). Yikes. Way too much one-on-one ball. Keep playing like that and it's going to be a very ugly year.oskidunker said:oskidunker said:
We should have a height advantage. They are a poor three point shooting team. I suspect turnovers will determine who wins,munless we get jobbed ny the refs.
Bump
Even the guys who had good games looked very flawed. Stojakovic and Omot are skilled and athletic but absolutely should not be pounding the rock for 10 seconds 1 on 1 from the top of the key/wing. Omot's shot selection was pretty wild (as his previous season tape also showed... this is a coaching problem), but to his credit he made a good number of tough shots tonight. Stojakovic can get penetration but struggles to make contested baskets straight up without counter moves. I've seen so many of his drives where he gets into the lane and just clanks a contested lay up. Teams will eventually learn to not give into his foul baiting.
We can afford a few "learning experience" games like this, but we need to get better fairly soon. Good test for the staff.
Big C said:
We can afford a few "learning experience" games like this, but we need to get better fairly soon. Good test for the staff.
Let's hope so. But man, can't shake the comparison of a Vanderbilt squad with even more new bodies than us looking like a team that actually played together.
concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.
BearSD said:When you have an almost-all-new team every year, it takes a lot of time and work for them to play well as a team. Hopefully this team will get there.sycasey said:
LOL we suck.
I like Madsen, but we have yet to see a well-executed offense under him.
Nope don't get to use that excuse when the other team has a new coach and 11 new players.
With that said, last year eventually Madsen did iron out most of the early season issues. But it did take some time. Here's my quick list of issues for this year that needs to get cleaned up pronto
- obviously we need to learn how to pass and be stronger with the ball, duh
- all parts of the D is a mess, from help side D to proper rotations. But if they can fix just one thing now, you gotta fix the PnR defense. Pick some sort of plan and be decisive with it. Whether that's switching or fighting thru screens and hedging or icing (personally I prefer blitzing). But what we're doing now is trying to fight thru screens, the low man isn't hedging at all, so the offensive player just waltzes into the paint. It's ridiculous.
- Madsen absolutely needs to emphasize that if you aren't playing hard, you ain't playing. Period. Don't care who it is, no exceptions. We cannot afford to get outhustled. We don't have the talent
- lastly Madsen needs to figure out the rotations. Campbell is a problem. Rhytis needs to play much more. We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.
I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
concernedparent said:That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
I try to judge his takes on whether they're actually good looks and not whether they actually go in. I think for younger players, process is more important than results.
I think he can definitely take less 3's, as I realy only want him to shoot open catch and shoot threes at this point till his shot improves.
But as far as his drives, maybe there's 1-2 that are questionable per game, but I'll easily take that. He's getting fouled a lot. And I want him to stay aggressive. He just has so much offensive upside, the last thing I would want to do is discourage him from driving.
I'm with you philosophically. I think we just disagree as to what constitutes a good look for him. He's not the finisher that Tyson/Ty Wallace were or the shooter that Crabbe/Mathews were. A contested 3 or trying to finish a layup over multiple defenders in position is not going to be efficient. I don't like seeing those shots in the college game unless it's from an NBA caliber player.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
I try to judge his takes on whether they're actually good looks and not whether they actually go in. I think for younger players, process is more important than results.
I think he can definitely take less 3's, as I realy only want him to shoot open catch and shoot threes at this point till his shot improves.
But as far as his drives, maybe there's 1-2 that are questionable per game, but I'll easily take that. He's getting fouled a lot. And I want him to stay aggressive. He just has so much offensive upside, the last thing I would want to do is discourage him from driving.
The player development angle is a good point.
Did we play any minutes with 3 wings on the floor?concernedparent said:That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
No, I don't think we have all year. The staff probably thinks Stojakovic and Omot, who honestly play like big guards, can't handle secondary ballhandling duties.stu said:Did we play any minutes with 3 wings on the floor?concernedparent said:That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
concernedparent said:No, I don't think we have all year. The staff probably thinks Stojakovic and Omot, who honestly play like big guards, can't handle secondary ballhandling duties.stu said:Did we play any minutes with 3 wings on the floor?concernedparent said:That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
And after watching the last game, I don't think they can either.
Which again, leads to one of the bigger problems, who to play at the 2 who can be a secondary ball handler and passer.
Campbell plays more like a 3. I don't trust him to move the ball or handle the ball
Wilkerson isn't ready yet
And if you use tucker as a starter, there's no PG to run the second unit.
It's a problem.
Theres over 20 players on the team. Why? Surely there is someone can handle the ball..if not, he recruited the wrong players
I think it is different to handle the ball against extreme pressure like Vandy provided than against a more standard defense. I think Stojakovic and Omot could handle the ball against most teams.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:No, I don't think we have all year. The staff probably thinks Stojakovic and Omot, who honestly play like big guards, can't handle secondary ballhandling duties.stu said:Did we play any minutes with 3 wings on the floor?concernedparent said:That's a pretty big trick though. I wasn't happy with probably 6 or so of his shots last game, which is the difference between having a great night and being Don Coleman. I 100% agree that he is one of the only guys (along with Omot) who have real scoring upside.ducky23 said:concernedparent said:Unlike last game, he's getting good shots almost every time tonight.HoopDreams said:
The one bright spot is seeing Andrej taking the lead role and being aggressive
I'd disagree with that. He's been getting pretty good looks consistently all year. This game they just went in. Getting good looks isn't the problem for Andrej. He can get to his spot better than any other player on the team. For him, the trick is just being able to finish consistently. I'm confident it's going to come eventually.I think the bigger problem is they aren't on the roster. What lineup would you have tried? We already always play two guards. Three would've been rough offensively because our wings are by far our best scorers. Blacksher is solid but he's really small. Campbell is a bit of a black hole. The game is too fast for Wilkinson right now and his high dribble is concerning. Tucker just looks overwhelmed athletically against power conference level guards.Quote:
We need more ball handlers on the court at the same time. We had some lineups out there that made zero sense.
And after watching the last game, I don't think they can either.
Which again, leads to one of the bigger problems, who to play at the 2 who can be a secondary ball handler and passer.
Campbell plays more like a 3. I don't trust him to move the ball or handle the ball
Wilkerson isn't ready yet
And if you use tucker as a starter, there's no PG to run the second unit.
It's a problem.
Tucker could play 20 minutes, 10 minutes on the ball when Blacksher is out and 10 minutes off the ball when they want a little more ball handling. The main problem is he does not bring much scoring to the table.
Next year Ruff will be a wing who can handle the ball. It will be nice.
Great analysis, agree with most of this, though I do not think, like many on this thread, that the team's poor performance spells doom for the season. Madsen not being on the floor was a significant disadvantage. I know Mazarei is well liked but this was not a great coaching job on defense (where was the adjustment when it was clear we were about to hand 18 STEALS to Vandy?) We got schooled, now let's learn from it and get some reps in at practice on pressure D. Other teams will watch this game and immediately draw up pressure D plans, let's not be caught flat-footed like we were on Wednesday.
I agree as well. And while the phrase "you get what you wish for" is valid, it's probably more of a good thing that we can try to make adjustments immediately by facing a formidable opponent on the road like USC just four days later. I think in the long run it's a better assignment than returning home for a game to play a less qualified team.barsad said:
Great analysis, agree with most of this, though I do not think, like many on this thread, that the team's poor performance spells doom for the season. Madsen not being on the floor was a significant disadvantage. I know Mazarei is well liked but this was not a great coaching job on defense (where was the adjustment when it was clear we were about to hand 18 STEALS to Vandy?) We got schooled, now let's learn from it and get some reps in at practice on pressure D. Other teams will watch this game and immediately draw up pressure D plans, let's not be caught flat-footed like we were on Wednesday.
RedlessWardrobe said:I agree as well. And while the phrase "you get what you wish for" is valid, it's probably more of a good thing that we can try to make adjustments immediately by facing a formidable opponent on the road like USC just four days later. I think in the long run it's a better assignment than returning home for a game to play a less qualified team.barsad said:
Great analysis, agree with most of this, though I do not think, like many on this thread, that the team's poor performance spells doom for the season. Madsen not being on the floor was a significant disadvantage. I know Mazarei is well liked but this was not a great coaching job on defense (where was the adjustment when it was clear we were about to hand 18 STEALS to Vandy?) We got schooled, now let's learn from it and get some reps in at practice on pressure D. Other teams will watch this game and immediately draw up pressure D plans, let's not be caught flat-footed like we were on Wednesday.
Anyone know if Madsen will be there?
oskidunker said:RedlessWardrobe said:I agree as well. And while the phrase "you get what you wish for" is valid, it's probably more of a good thing that we can try to make adjustments immediately by facing a formidable opponent on the road like USC just four days later. I think in the long run it's a better assignment than returning home for a game to play a less qualified team.barsad said:
Great analysis, agree with most of this, though I do not think, like many on this thread, that the team's poor performance spells doom for the season. Madsen not being on the floor was a significant disadvantage. I know Mazarei is well liked but this was not a great coaching job on defense (where was the adjustment when it was clear we were about to hand 18 STEALS to Vandy?) We got schooled, now let's learn from it and get some reps in at practice on pressure D. Other teams will watch this game and immediately draw up pressure D plans, let's not be caught flat-footed like we were on Wednesday.
Anyone know if Madsen will be there?
Honest question: What needs changing more, the diapers or the lineup?
Edit to add: Hope the baby and the mom are healthy and happy!
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