HearstMining said:

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PenBear said:

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I would say even low-level tournaments will add more practice time and game time to the team. And hopefully increase team cohesiveness. Maybe winning a few games would help convince Wilkinson and Stoj to stay.

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With the portal producing 50% or more annual turnover of the roster, that "additional practice time" benefit is insignificant. You're starting fresh every season. Rather than a postseason tournament, Madsen's time is better spent on portal recruiting, hiring better staff, and scheming offense and defense that will make them winners in ACC play.
EDIT - The same is true for football. What actual carryover value did Cal get out of the LA Bowl debacle?

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Def zero value (esp the way Wilcox went at it, treating it like a scrimmage) except it was fun hanging out with the Calgorithm in the suite that Vic Enwere invited us to (kind of, Mayor Mike won spot through Vic and then Mayor Mike slipped a few of us in -- LA Bowl didn't care at all lol, these bowls are so low maintenance). Despite all his criticisms of Cal football directed at Wilcox, he is a really cool guy.

While CJ was playing the LA bowl was a blast.

When he got hurt/the second half... Not so much

But I'm pretty sure we got dejesus because of it, so it's still a win

HearstMining said:

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PenBear said:

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I would say even low-level tournaments will add more practice time and game time to the team. And hopefully increase team cohesiveness. Maybe winning a few games would help convince Wilkinson and Stoj to stay.

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With the portal producing 50% or more annual turnover of the roster, that "additional practice time" benefit is insignificant. You're starting fresh every season. Rather than a postseason tournament, Madsen's time is better spent on portal recruiting, hiring better staff, and scheming offense and defense that will make them winners in ACC play.
EDIT - The same is true for football. What actual carryover value did Cal get out of the LA Bowl debacle?

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We should take a page from Mario Savio and put our bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus of the Portal and make it stop.

And so much for CSUN beating the furd. My wishful thinking. furd by 17 under 4 minutes to go.

I'm sure Madsen made a ton of progress on next year's roster today. I mean, we wouldn't want to be competing in a postseason tournament or anything.

sonofabear51 said:

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And so much for CSUN beating the furd. My wishful thinking. furd by 17 under 4 minutes to go.

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Stanford out classes the rest of the NIT field

I see them winning or at least getting to Championship game

CalLifer said:

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Addicted-to-TopDog said:

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Jerod Haase had destroyed that program over his 8 years there. I'm stunned at how quickly Kyle Smith got it turned around.

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If you call what Haase did to Stanfurd "destroyed", does a word even exist in the English language to describe what Fox did to Cal?

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Wyking Jones and Fox are co-conspirators in the… napalming? vaporization?

Addicted-to-TopDog said:

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Jerod Haase had destroyed that program over his 8 years there. I'm stunned at how quickly Kyle Smith got it turned around.

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I'm too lazy to look it up: How much worse was the Haase program. compared to what Johnny Dawkins did there? As I recall, it was 15 (?) years of mediocrity, all told. Not that we've even been mediocre the past 8 years, but still...

Yeah Dawkins was pretty bad there as well, although not nearly as bad as Haase. Dawkins did have one Sweet 16 and won the NIT twice while Haase got like one NIT bid in his 8 years there. Never got them into the big dance.

Trent Johnson wasn't much better. He road on what Monty had built there before him and had the good fortune of being gifted the Lopez twins. He didn't even have to recruit them, as it was pre-ordained by their mother they were going to Furd when they were little kids.

Trent Johnson went on to drive the LSU, TCU, and Cal State Northridge programs into the ground one after the other, collecting smaller paychecks at each stop. So Kyle Smith is really Furd's first quality head coach since Monty. That's over 20 years of mediocrity. So we've had some company in our misery.

Addicted-to-TopDog said:

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Yeah Dawkins was pretty bad there as well, although not nearly as bad as Haase. Dawkins did have one Sweet 16 and won the NIT twice while Haase got like one NIT bid in his 8 years there. Never got them into the big dance.

Trent Johnson wasn't much better. He road on what Monty had built there before him and had the good fortune of being gifted the Lopez twins. He didn't even have to recruit them, as it was pre-ordained by their mother they were going to Furd when they were little kids.

Trent Johnson went on to drive the LSU, TCU, and Cal State Northridge programs into the ground one after the other, collecting smaller paychecks at each stop. So Kyle Smith is really Furd's first quality head coach since Monty. That's over 20 years of mediocrity. So we've had some company in our misery.

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Don't forget he took an even smaller paycheck when he came to help Fox run Cal into the ground.

Very good point.

HKBear97! said:

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HoopDreams said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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And so much for CSUN beating the furd. My wishful thinking. furd by 17 under 4 minutes to go.

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Stanford out classes the rest of the NIT field

I see them winning or at least getting to Championship game

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Stanford looks like a well-coached team. I didn't realize they were predicted to finish 17th in the ACC and finished 7th until Rod mentioned it in his post. Amazing what a good coach can do!

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Stanford is an average team with a superstar 7 foot center who shoots 3s

He has literally been the difference between winning and losing when Cal have played them

In most games, the team that won probably would have lost if their best player had been unavailable. So, it's a bit silly to point out that Furd was only able to beat us because they had a great player like Raynaud.

BearSD said:

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CalLifer said:

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Addicted-to-TopDog said:

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Jerod Haase had destroyed that program over his 8 years there. I'm stunned at how quickly Kyle Smith got it turned around.

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If you call what Haase did to Stanfurd "destroyed", does a word even exist in the English language to describe what Fox did to Cal?

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Wyking Jones and Fox are co-conspirators in the… napalming? vaporization?

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Jones was only HC at Cal two years but I really liked the young team he put together. He left the Cal program with better players than he inherited. All the talent Fox had were players left to him by Jones until he ran them all off and turned us into the worst team in our history, the lowest scoring team in the entire country (out of over 330 teams). Madsen inherited zero talent from Fox. Unfortunately in his first two seasons, Madsen is making a lot of the same coaching strategy mistakes as Jones did and Rod Benson details (pro style of play, not playing your best players….).

Addicted-to-TopDog said:

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In most games, the team that won probably would have lost if their best player had been unavailable. So, it's a bit silly to point out that Furd was only able to beat us because they had a great player like Raynaud.

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Except that the statement you are referring to was a response to a statement stating that Stanfurd was a well coached team. Under those circumstances the statement makes complete sense. Add to it that that the one player is the only sure bet NBA player on the court, and the statement is even more valid.

calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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CalLifer said:

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Addicted-to-TopDog said:

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Jerod Haase had destroyed that program over his 8 years there. I'm stunned at how quickly Kyle Smith got it turned around.

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If you call what Haase did to Stanfurd "destroyed", does a word even exist in the English language to describe what Fox did to Cal?

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Wyking Jones and Fox are co-conspirators in the… napalming? vaporization?

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Jones was only HC at Cal two years but I really liked the young team he put together. He left the Cal program with better players than he inherited. All the talent Fox had were players left to him by Jones until he ran them all off and turned us into the worst team in our history, the lowest scoring team in the entire country (out of over 330 teams). Madsen inherited zero talent from Fox. Unfortunately in his first two seasons, Madsen is making a lot of the same coaching strategy mistakes as Jones did and Rod Benson details (pro style of play, not playing your best players….).

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Agreed. Wyking was in over his head but at least he brought in talent unlike Fox. Wyking recruited
Sueing, McNeil, Anticevich, Harris-Dyson (was he a 4 star??), Bradley, Kelly, Vanover to name a few.

HoopDreams said:

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HKBear97! said:

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HoopDreams said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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And so much for CSUN beating the furd. My wishful thinking. furd by 17 under 4 minutes to go.

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Stanford out classes the rest of the NIT field

I see them winning or at least getting to Championship game

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Stanford looks like a well-coached team. I didn't realize they were predicted to finish 17th in the ACC and finished 7th until Rod mentioned it in his post. Amazing what a good coach can do!

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Stanford is an average team with a superstar 7 foot center who shoots 3s

He has literally been the difference between winning and losing when Cal have played them

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I've only caught a few Stanford games this season, but I thought they looked pretty good and often made some nice adjustments during games. And as noted, the pundits thought their talent level would be fairly low, thus the 17th place prediction, so seems like Smith is getting more out of less.

Of course, after eight years of Wyking/Fox/Madsen any team that looks like they actually have a system and are able to make in-game adjustments looks pretty good to me. Cal has been so bad for so long, maybe I've forgotten what average looks like!