Details on paid. Good chance for high impact aadd

socaltownie said:

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Details on paid. Good chance for high impact aadd

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aadd? Did you mean adhd?

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

stu said:

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We have lost 7 rotation players and pending further signings we have 8 players coming in or returning after redshirt/injury. Approximate equivalents:

Pippen out, Ross in: Similar size, more experience, lower ceiling.
Ames out, Cooper in: A bit bigger, less experience.
Campbell out, Ruff in: Bigger, less experience, higher ceiling.

Bell out, Indrusaitis in: Less length, more bulk.
Camden out, Yeanay in: Better athlete, way less experience, unknown skill set.
Dorsey out, Bakare in: better athlete, no experience, higher ceiling.
Wilkins in: nobody comparable leaving - long, athletic, little experience, very high ceiling.

Ilic out, Mitrovoc in: More length, less bulk, possibly quicker, no experience.

Overall more athletic but Madsen will really have to coach them up to get equal or better results.

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In Madsen's first two years, with an iso offensive scheme (which to me essentially means no real offensive scheme) the lack of a true PG was felt mostly on defense, where the Cal's PGs were generally too small to have real impact. This last season with Pippen and a different offense was a revelation. While not the strongest athlete, he still could put the defensive clamps on opposing players. Meanwhile, his decision-making and a more versatile offensive plan made a huge difference on the offensive end. I hope TT can fill that gap, but I hope one of the incoming guys can also contribute at PG, especially on the defensive end.

GameDay said:

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Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

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And TT Carr

HearstMining said:

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stu said:

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We have lost 7 rotation players and pending further signings we have 8 players coming in or returning after redshirt/injury. Approximate equivalents:

Pippen out, Ross in: Similar size, more experience, lower ceiling.
Ames out, Cooper in: A bit bigger, less experience.
Campbell out, Ruff in: Bigger, less experience, higher ceiling.

Bell out, Indrusaitis in: Less length, more bulk.
Camden out, Yeanay in: Better athlete, way less experience, unknown skill set.
Dorsey out, Bakare in: better athlete, no experience, higher ceiling.
Wilkins in: nobody comparable leaving - long, athletic, little experience, very high ceiling.

Ilic out, Mitrovoc in: More length, less bulk, possibly quicker, no experience.

Overall more athletic but Madsen will really have to coach them up to get equal or better results.

---

In Madsen's first two years, with an iso offensive scheme (which to me essentially means no real offensive scheme) the lack of a true PG was felt mostly on defense, where the Cal's PGs were generally too small to have real impact. This last season with Pippen and a different offense was a revelation. While not the strongest athlete, he still could put the defensive clamps on opposing players. Meanwhile, his decision-making and a more versatile offensive plan made a huge difference on the offensive end. I hope TT can fill that gap, but I hope one of the incoming guys can also contribute at PG, especially on the defensive end.

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It'll be interesting how iso-heavy this roster will be because iso scoring at volume might be our biggest current weakness.

I was personally frustrated at times by an over reliance on Dai Dai and Pippen last season (and even occasionally Camden).

Whether that was by design (eg we probably couldn't get better shots running a more team oriented system with our personnel) or by default is my biggest question going into next year.

JimSox said:

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GameDay said:

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Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

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And TT Carr

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I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

stu said:

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JimSox said:

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GameDay said:

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Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

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And TT Carr

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I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

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Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

barsad said:

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stu said:

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JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

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Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

I mentioned Carr before he went into the portal.
Kocanas and Dut are backups at the 5. Kocanas can shoot a three, and Dut won the Miami game for us when he was needed in an emergency.
Besides, it's the money that's in short supply, not the roster spots.

JimSox said:

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barsad said:

---

stu said:

---

JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

---

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

I mentioned Carr before he went into the portal.
Kocanas and Dut are backups at the 5. Kocanas can shoot a three, and Dut won the Miami game for us when he was needed in an emergency.
Besides, it's the money that's in short supply, not the roster spots.

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Fine, then we need to go into the Bargain Bin for shooters, I know they're out there, diamonds in the rough (Ruff?)

barsad said:

---

stu said:

---

JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

---

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

Right now shooting looks bleak. We need to add 2 good shooters to the rotation who are good enough at everything else to be on the floor most of the time. Maybe Ruff can be one of those guys? Don't like to rely too heavily on first year players. Which he essentially is.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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barsad said:

---

stu said:

---

JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

---

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

Right now shooting looks bleak. We need to add 2 good shooters to the rotation who are good enough at everything else to be on the floor most of the time. Maybe Ruff can be one of those guys? Don't like to rely too heavily on first year players. Which he essentially is.

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I suppose after he's practiced a year our coaches will know if he can shoot. But they haven't told me. Who they sign next could provide the answer.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

barsad said:

---

stu said:

---

JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

---

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

Right now shooting looks bleak. We need to add 2 good shooters to the rotation who are good enough at everything else to be on the floor most of the time. Maybe Ruff can be one of those guys? Don't like to rely too heavily on first year players. Which he essentially is.

---

Agreed, this team desperately needs proven shooters. Fortunately that is an easy metric to find, though not everyone who shoots well at a lower level is able to maintain that when the take a step up. That is where the coaches' evaluation comes in.

I am really hoping Ruff can be the shooter/scorer this team needs, but the fact Madsen redshirted him gives me pause. I'd think if he was showing something he'd have gotten some PT, maybe not as much as Carr or Wilkinson the year before, but in the Portal era, there is really no reason to redshirt a player who can contribute (was Ruff injured?) .

Madson has been very coy about injuries, which were identified as a reason for the RS.

But Ruff's high school tape showed a guy who probably would have benefitted from a RS year regardless (like Christian Hammond from Santa Clara) since explosive athleticism and strength are two of his biggest areas for growth.

Compared to TT (who I watched live in HS) and thought he had the athletic traits to compete immediately.

But I'm really excited to see Ruff next year. He's got an advanced SG handle and since he's a smooth but not dominant athlete, he's had to develop lots of ways to score at all 3 levels so hopefully he takes the year to keep growing into his body and level up physically.

Also Ruff has one of the funkiest shooting motions I've ever seen. Not sure if you try to tweak it because it seems to work but shooting contested 3s could be a challenge because compared to textbook shooters like Klay, the motion starts really low and almost looks more like an outlet pass than shot initially.

It's kind of ironic. With a couple of taller bigger players coming in, and having Yeaney healthy to start the season, we probably won't be getting beat up inside like we did this year. But with no forwards to match the outside shooting of Bell and Camden, it feels like there is now a deficiency of 3 point shooting, again the opposite of this year. Really hoping we can bring in one guy 6-7 or taller that can shoot the three with our last four schollies.

calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

barsad said:

---

stu said:

---

JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

---

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

Right now shooting looks bleak. We need to add 2 good shooters to the rotation who are good enough at everything else to be on the floor most of the time. Maybe Ruff can be one of those guys? Don't like to rely too heavily on first year players. Which he essentially is.

---

Agreed, this team desperately needs proven shooters. Fortunately that is an easy metric to find, though not everyone who shoots well at a lower level is able to maintain that when the take a step up. That is where the coaches' evaluation comes in.

I am really hoping Ruff can be the shooter/scorer this team needs, but the fact Madsen redshirted him gives me pause. I'd think if he was showing something he'd have gotten some PT, maybe not as much as Carr or Wilkinson the year before, but in the Portal era, there is really no reason to redshirt a player who can contribute (was Ruff injured?) .

---

It's easy to find guys who can shoot. They are a dime a dozen. What is hard is finding guys who can shoot under the pressure of high D-1 basketball and who are good enough on defense, handling, passing, and everything else to play consistently. A 40% three point shooter who is on your bench doesn't help much.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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It's kind of ironic. With a couple of taller bigger players coming in, and having Yeaney healthy to start the season, we probably won't be getting beat up inside like we did this year. But with no forwards to match the outside shooting of Bell and Camden, it feels like there is now a deficiency of 3 point shooting, again the opposite of this year. Really hoping we can bring in one guy 6-7 or taller that can shoot the three with our last four schollies.

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Sorry to answer myself. 6-8 Amier Ali is now a Bear.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

barsad said:

---

stu said:

---

JimSox said:

---

GameDay said:

---

Don't forget Jovani Ruff!

---

And TT Carr

---

I did include Ruff.

I did not include Carr or Dort because both played a lot of minutes this past season and don't represent a change, though I expect both to improve.

I also did not include Kocanas or Manyiel Dut because I'm not sure they'll play much.

---

Carr is in the portal, count him out.
Never really understood the concept of wasting three scholarships at the end of the bench for guys "not expected to play much." If we don't think they can fill a role or at least fill a role after a year of development, why are they occupying valuable roster spots? I hear this said about Kocanas and Dut all the time.
We have 4 scholarships left, and we have a full tank on big men and guards (jury is out on whether any of them have the talent to push the team further).
Seems to me all four of those spots go to pure shooters, guys like Bell and Camden who could keep us in (and out) of games when no one else was scoring.

---

Right now shooting looks bleak. We need to add 2 good shooters to the rotation who are good enough at everything else to be on the floor most of the time. Maybe Ruff can be one of those guys? Don't like to rely too heavily on first year players. Which he essentially is.

---

Agreed, this team desperately needs proven shooters. Fortunately that is an easy metric to find, though not everyone who shoots well at a lower level is able to maintain that when the take a step up. That is where the coaches' evaluation comes in.

I am really hoping Ruff can be the shooter/scorer this team needs, but the fact Madsen redshirted him gives me pause. I'd think if he was showing something he'd have gotten some PT, maybe not as much as Carr or Wilkinson the year before, but in the Portal era, there is really no reason to redshirt a player who can contribute (was Ruff injured?) .

---

It's easy to find guys who can shoot. They are a dime a dozen. What is hard is finding guys who can shoot under the pressure of high D-1 basketball and who are good enough on defense, handling, passing, and everything else to play consistently. A 40% three point shooter who is on your bench doesn't help much.

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Agreed, we need shooting that is capable of earning starting or at least major rotational minutes, and that definitely includes defense and passing, maybe rebounding, etc.