calumnus;842083522 said:

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Monty has been yelling all season. It has been noticeable all along and has been a big contrast to prior years. Our downturn was when teams started focusing on just stopping Crabbe and Cobbs (and we lost Smith) and our bigs could not step up. Crabbe has had his ups and downs, but he is still the Pac-12's leading scorer and is the favorite to win Pac-12 Player of the Year. That is a lot more up than down. Even Kobe and Lebron have off-nights.

Solomon's improvement appeared to be when Monty stopped yelling at him constantly from the bench and assigned DeCuire to coach him from the sideline. Our run of good play has been with the emergence of Solomon and Kravish--neither of whom appear to respond well to yelling. Their confidence now is noticeable.

As a kid I sat next to John Wooden at UCLA practices. I sat behind him during games (my dad was a Pac-8 ref at the time). Wooden taught that to earn respect you had to show respect to your student athletes. I never heard him yell at a player, much less shove a player in anger. Yet, he was a superb motivator. In fact, motivation was his primary focus.

You can "light a fire" under a person without insulting them and without shoving them. You can be emotional and fired up in a positive way. The best locker room speeches are both passionate and inspirational. Here is just one of the many books my dad written on the coaching which emphasizes that times have changed: https://www.coacheschoice.com/m-159-george-a-selleck.aspx

The thing is, Monty knows all this. He was generally a teacher at Stanford and in prior years here. I am pretty sure he had some involvement with the Positive Coaching Alliance LINK, which was founded at Stanford. He might yell at refs, but he rarely yelled at or insulted a player, much less shoved them. The worst from him was usually a disapproving glare or a sarcastic quip. You have an issue with Crabbe, did you eve see Josh Childress play in college? Did Monty ever shove him in a game to motivate him? Something is different this year, and as I said, it has been noticeable from Day 1. When he shoved Cobbs I was alarmed, glad it was not made into a big deal, but hoped it wouldn't happen again. Unfortunately it did. Hope Monty gets it now, this blows over so it is not more of a distraction and we can get back to winning.

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I guess my recollection varies from yours. At the beginning of the season Monty spent a lot of time seated with his arms crossed. As we hit rough patch he stayed that way for a while. It got to the point where people here were saying he was just phoning it in and playing the string out of his contract, that he'd lost his fire, that he didn't care enough. I can't see why those posts would have been made if he'd been up yelling all the time.

Wooden, well, I wonder how effectively his approach would have worked without totally dominant players. And there are other proven successful coaches who have a very different approach. Coach K, though he rarely gets called out for it, is a profane snarling wharf rat during games, and while it's usually directed toward the refs it's occasionally directed to his players.

Again, I'm not saying that shoving players is OK. I'm also saying Monty's edgier than I've ever seen him this year. But I do believe the combination of Crabbe's personality and Monty needing him to be a floor leader who doesn't drift or take possessions off is part of the issue.

south bender;842083451 said:

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There will never be proof one way or another as to what motivated Allen late in the game.

However, he was acting like a child and not playing defensively to a high standard when Monty lost it.

Let's not make out as though there was no basis for Monty's discomfort with Allen's effort.

Regrettable as Monty's behavior was, it did not come out of the blue.

Go Bears!

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It doesn't matter how Crabbe was acting, plain and simple.

The problem with all the media commentary is that it's by people who haven't cared a rat's ass about Cal basketball until this incident. Those of us who have gone to all the games this year have seen Montgomery's level of frustration with this team's inability to execute in games what they've been coached in practice to do. Example was the 3s they gave up to Stanford's big men, after being told all week to switch out on the screener.

I think the frustration is unusual, in that Montgomery teams in the past have rarely failed to execute his coaching. Montgomery has been clear all year after losses that he feels this team has underachieved because they lack focus and toughness. Prior to the shove, Crabbe lined up twice on the wrong side in the defense, resulting in a pair of uncontested 3s for U$C. That kind of lack of focus is inexcusable. While I don't condone the shove, up until the last three weeks I was fairly worried, as were other posters, that Montgomery had given up trying to find ways to reach this team and get them to play up to their potential. That's clearly not an issue now.

Yes, Crabbe is a great offensive player, but he's terrible defensively. In my opinion, that's because he's not as focused. I thought both player and coach reacted appropriately in the aftermath, Crabbe by coming back to the court, Montgomery by putting him back in straight away, and Crabbe then taking over the game. If we make the NCAAs, this incident, which avoided a horrible loss, will be part of the reason why.

bluesaxe;842083494 said:

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No, Crabbe has not been great all along. His play took a downturn just like the team's play took a downturn. It wasn't just the bigs, it was the guards as well.

That's not to say Crabbe hasn't been our best player, but the guy who showed up at Arizona was MIA for a stretch and it cost the team. His play can be infuriating because his intensity level ebbs and flows.

This is not a knock on Alan as a person, or even as a player so much. He's unselfish, team-oriented, seems like a nice guy, and that's almost part of the issue with him. He also gets down on himself and at times give up for stretches. If he wants to be the player he can be, he needs to play hard all game long no matter if he's getting pushed, shoved, kicked or beaten. He needs some Jorge in him. And I think that's what Montgomery is pushing for, harder and harder, especially as it became obvious we were going to be without Kreklow. Because Crabbe's personality has been reflected a bit too much by the team's personality, since he's the best player.

I'm impressed that the team mentality seems to be changing in a good way. I'm impressed that Crabbe is a bit more fiery and is playing the way he's playing. I credit both players and coaches for that. But they definitely needed a fire lit under their collective ass and pats on the back don't motivate some guys.

I'm not saying Monty should be shoving people, just that I don't see what's going on the same way you do. I think Monty is doing a hell of a coaching job right now, and that we should probably all take Thurman's advice and chill out.

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Thank you BluesAxe. Anyone who was watching the game saw a different Alan Crabbe after the "shove" than before it. He was much more "into" the game and putting pressure on his man (IIRC this was one of the things that MM was upset about). Thus he got a few rebounds and a few steals before he started connecting on his shots.

Also as for MM shouting more this year. IMO it is true (but MM always has been a yeller - except for the time he was worried about his heart). this year the team has needed it. Until recently this season there has been little "fire" shown by the team as a whole.
Gone are Jorge and Kamp. And before them MM had the likes of Theo Robertson, Randle and Christopher who always played hard every game all the time.

Jeff82;842083647 said:

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The problem with all the media commentary is that it's by people who haven't cared a rat's ass about Cal basketball until this incident. Those of us who have gone to all the games this year have seen Montgomery's level of frustration with this team's inability to execute in games what they've been coached in practice to do. Example was the 3s they gave up to Stanford's big men, after being told all week to switch out on the screener.

I think the frustration is unusual, in that Montgomery teams in the past have rarely failed to execute his coaching. Montgomery has been clear all year after losses that he feels this team has underachieved because they lack focus and toughness. Prior to the shove, Crabbe lined up twice on the wrong side in the defense, resulting in a pair of uncontested 3s for U$C. That kind of lack of focus is inexcusable. While I don't condone the shove, up until the last three weeks I was fairly worried, as were other posters, that Montgomery had given up trying to find ways to reach this team and get them to play up to their potential. That's clearly not an issue now.

Yes, Crabbe is a great offensive player, but he's terrible defensively. In my opinion, that's because he's not as focused. I thought both player and coach reacted appropriately in the aftermath, Crabbe by coming back to the court, Montgomery by putting him back in straight away, and Crabbe then taking over the game. If we make the NCAAs, this incident, which avoided a horrible loss, will be part of the reason why.

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All excellent points.

Notwithstanding, "the program" now has an "800 pound gorilla" to deal with--and, "it" will always be somewhere, even in the shadows, no matter how well we do...

Furthermore, and for the participants involved (=using history as a guide), and for the rest of their careers, pundits/analysts/naysayers will always "bring it up" to highlight a "point of view" that they make....

It's the age old story of Humpty Dumpty...

:facepalm