The Dunk Revisited

2,474 Views | 15 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by cubzwin
SFCityBear
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There are those who say the dunk takes no skill. I think it must take some skill, because Cal missed how many last night? At least four. Let's say you shoot a layup or a putback off the glass in those instances. Probably you make two of them, and the Bears win this game a little sooner. Cal missed their dunks early, and Oakland was thinking, "Cal can't even make a dunk", and it probably gave them some confidence, because Cal was playing stupidly.

If a player is not very skilled at shooting off the glass, then the dunk is perhaps the highest percentage shot. This is why in the past I was not critical of Solomon taking a dunk. But this year, he has begun to show some skill in shooting, and he needs to think of which is the best shot for him, especially after missing two wide open dunks night.

Another problem with the dunk is if you do miss it, all positioning for the rebound is out the window, as the ball caroms wildly off the rim, and so if you miss a dunk, you just made a turnover. This is not true for a missed layup, short jumper, or hook shot. Your team still has a chance for the rebound.

Every player from 5'-7" to 7'-4" wants to dunk. That is a problem, because shorter players who can dunk are able to get away with it in high school, but when they get into college, they find there are taller athletic players denying them a path to the hoop. If they had spent time in high school perfecting other shots, instead of practicing the simplest shot in the world, the dunk, they would have become more effective ballplayers. When Alex Rossi, a fine perimeter shooter, was rehabbing he was asked what he was working on. "My dunks," he replied. He was so elated that he was finally able to dunk the ball again without pain. This is a kid who did not have the athleticism to get inside and dunk basketballs at a D-1 level, and he should haven't spent a minute of practice time on it, IMO.

Tyrone Wallace is a kid who gets it in his head that he can dunk over a crowd in the paint, and he gets stuffed sometimes. He will learn to "have better shot selection" as they say. Shot selection should refer not just to jump shots, but to dunks as well.

There were videos posted on the BI of Jabari Bird from the ProAm last summer, doing all the wonderful circus dunks, and all the fans were so excited. What they did not show were the dunks he missed. In four games, I'd guess he missed at least 10 dunks overall, with the ball usually caroming way up in the air. What players are doing now is concentrating on form, and not results. They fly high and slam the ball home, hang on the rim, shaking the basket, and then land on the floor and pound their chest with both hands and giving out a yell, all like Tarzan of the jungle.

The dunk has been around since the 1940's, and players for a long time were not so demonstrative, so as to show up an opponent. No "in your face" stuff like today. Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest player I ever saw, did not like to dunk and show up a player, but when he did dunk, it was effortless, and happened so quickly, you barely noticed it. If Wilt caught the ball under the basket, and you blinked, he would have already dunked and started back up the floor to play defense. He would be looking down on these kids today with their showboat dunks, and showboat misses, and he would be laughing his head off.
UrsaMajor
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True. But there are instances (I saw at least 3 last night) where Solomon or Kravish went for the lay-up and missed, where a dunk would have been easier and more difficult to contest.
cubzwin
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That shot hasn't been called a dunk for many years. SFCity, I'm not saying your argument is wrong but you might want to update the terminology.
HoopDreams
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I like it...

Richard_Lee
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Does being white make you less or more likely to be able to dunk than a black guy or member of another race?

Discuss.


SFCityBear;842223743 said:

There are those who say the dunk takes no skill. I think it must take some skill, because Cal missed how many last night? At least four. Let's say you shoot a layup or a putback off the glass in those instances. Probably you make two of them, and the Bears win this game a little sooner. Cal missed their dunks early, and Oakland was thinking, "Cal can't even make a dunk", and it probably gave them some confidence, because Cal was playing stupidly.

If a player is not very skilled at shooting off the glass, then the dunk is perhaps the highest percentage shot. This is why in the past I was not critical of Solomon taking a dunk. But this year, he has begun to show some skill in shooting, and he needs to think of which is the best shot for him, especially after missing two wide open dunks night.

Another problem with the dunk is if you do miss it, all positioning for the rebound is out the window, as the ball caroms wildly off the rim, and so if you miss a dunk, you just made a turnover. This is not true for a missed layup, short jumper, or hook shot. Your team still has a chance for the rebound.

Every player from 5'-7" to 7'-4" wants to dunk. That is a problem, because shorter players who can dunk are able to get away with it in high school, but when they get into college, they find there are taller athletic players denying them a path to the hoop. If they had spent time in high school perfecting other shots, instead of practicing the simplest shot in the world, the dunk, they would have become more effective ballplayers. When Alex Rossi, a fine perimeter shooter, was rehabbing he was asked what he was working on. "My dunks," he replied. He was so elated that he was finally able to dunk the ball again without pain. This is a kid who did not have the athleticism to get inside and dunk basketballs at a D-1 level, and he should haven't spent a minute of practice time on it, IMO.

Tyrone Wallace is a kid who gets it in his head that he can dunk over a crowd in the paint, and he gets stuffed sometimes. He will learn to "have better shot selection" as they say. Shot selection should refer not just to jump shots, but to dunks as well.

There were videos posted on the BI of Jabari Bird from the ProAm last summer, doing all the wonderful circus dunks, and all the fans were so excited. What they did not show were the dunks he missed. In four games, I'd guess he missed at least 10 dunks overall, with the ball usually caroming way up in the air. What players are doing now is concentrating on form, and not results. They fly high and slam the ball home, hang on the rim, shaking the basket, and then land on the floor and pound their chest with both hands and giving out a yell, all like Tarzan of the jungle.

The dunk has been around since the 1940's, and players for a long time were not so demonstrative, so as to show up an opponent. No "in your face" stuff like today. Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest player I ever saw, did not like to dunk and show up a player, but when he did dunk, it was effortless, and happened so quickly, you barely noticed it. If Wilt caught the ball under the basket, and you blinked, he would have already dunked and started back up the floor to play defense. He would be looking down on these kids today with their showboat dunks, and showboat misses, and he would be laughing his head off.
bearister
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Richard_Lee;842225829 said:

Does being white make you less or more likely to be able to dunk than a black guy or member of another race?

Discuss.


Being white makes you less likely to be able to dunk than a black guy but more likely to be able to dunk than a member of another race.
Richard_Lee
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bearister;842225847 said:

Being white makes you less likely to be able to dunk than a black guy but more likely to be able to dunk than a member of another race.




What if the member of the other race were really tall, like Yao Ming or Eduardo Najera or Greivis Vasquez? Would they be able to beat Brian Scalabrine or Steve Blake in a dunk contest?
bearister
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Richard_Lee;842225850 said:

What if the member of the other race were really tall, like Yao Ming or Eduardo Najera or Greivis Vasquez? Would they be able to beat Brian Scalabrine or Steve Blake in a dunk contest?


Richard Wadlow would not only deny all of those dunkers he would dunk over them standing flat footed.
Richard_Lee
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bearister;842225876 said:

Richard Wadlow would not only deny all of those dunkers he would dunk over them standing flat footed.




Shawn Bradley could take Wadlow in a dunk contest.
bearister
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Richard_Lee;842225888 said:

Shawn Bradley could take Wadlow in a dunk contest.


But that is only because Wadlow is taking a dirt nap in the marble orchard.
SFCityBear
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Richard_Lee;842225829 said:

Does being white make you less or more likely to be able to dunk than a black guy or member of another race?

Discuss.


What if the white guy is Valeriy Brumel or Dwight Stones?

The last African-American world record holder in the high jump was John Thomas, and he last held the world record in 1960. Since then (53 years), the world high jump record has been held by ten different white men, one Chinese, and one Cuban. The current Olympic high jump champion is a Russian. Black basketball players are the greatest dunkers, but some white guys can jump.

Since dunking a basketball is a simple shot, and the toughest thing about it is getting up high enough to attempt it, I assume all these white men and the Chinese and the Cuban could dunk a basketball.

The point of the thread, which maybe you missed, because you did not address any of the points in the original post, in your haste to do some more race-baiting, was that I believe that dunking is not the best shot to attempt ALL OF THE TIME. If you are wide open, with no defender nearby, then fine, go ahead and dunk it (unless you are Clifford Ray or Devon Hardin). It is simply bad basketball, bad team play, to try and dunk over athletic defenders, sometimes several of them, who are in your way, rather than take an easier shot, or pass back out to a teammate. The object is to score, not to look pretty, or to make a fool out of yourself if you miss from such close range.

You are trolling, and I've been dumb to get sucked in. You do seem to want to pigeonhole players into racial groups, and assign stereotypes to each racial group, but why in the world is race so important to you? You are writing this racial drivel for fun? You have an odd sense of humor, if that is the case.
SFCityBear
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UrsaMajor;842223810 said:

True. But there are instances (I saw at least 3 last night) where Solomon or Kravish went for the lay-up and missed, where a dunk would have been easier and more difficult to contest.


You are right as well. I think which shot, dunk or layup or putback is best, depends on whether there is a defender in position, and what his position is, and also the skill of the shooter. Justin Cobbs as a sophomore tried dunking in the paint. Now he has a diverse game and he has other shots he can use as well in the paint, which he does.

I can remember going to Jason Kidd's games in his freshman year and sometimes he would miss a wide open layup. He probably lost concentration in those few instances, and I remember thinking that maybe he should just dunk those balls instead of trying to lay them in.

:beer:
SFCityBear
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cubzwin;842223818 said:

That shot hasn't been called a dunk for many years. SFCity, I'm not saying your argument is wrong but you might want to update the terminology.


I don't follow you, but I am willing to learn. I described several dunks by different players. Which ones are not called dunks anymore? All of them?

Thanks
calgldnbear
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Hook ..... Line .... Sinker
SFCityBear
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Tongue - in - cheek

:beer:
Civil Bear
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SFCityBear;842226029 said:


The point of the thread...was that I believe that dunking is not the best shot to attempt ALL OF THE TIME.

Well that's just crazy talk.
cubzwin
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Jam, slam, thank you mam
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