As some of you might remember, Monty way back when noted that it would take a while to recover from BB years. The classes were out of balance. There was a lack of talent. There were some problems.

What we are seeing is the kind of teams that would just give the Bears fits under Braun. Disciplined Basketball. Kids playing to their roles. Finding ways to win. Running good half court.

Prior to this years squad though we didn't have the talent for Monty's true brilliance to show. We had years with a point guard who is a great kid and warrior but is short. We had bigs who played on 1 leg....or who were "weight" challenged. We sometimes couldn't shoot the rock from outside if our lives depended upon it. Now we won some games. Did well. But never had the pieces.

Now we do. I am so impressed with Justin at the point and how he reminds me of some of the Furd guards that would crush us. I think that Solo and David are starting to remind me, in their own ways, of some of those Furd front lines. We have the pieces (if not the complete uber awesomeness of beating ones rival by 50...well not really uber except that said coach now coaches for US) because guards continually penetrated, kicked and wings hit three pointers.

Lots more to do. I wouldn't have believed we could do this with Bird and Ricky down but now I believe. It could be a very very special year.

Go Bears!!

Yup, isn't it great?

We're obviously not there yet (I have high hopes and expectations for Monty), but we're rolling again. I was at the Maui Arkansas game and we looked really good versus an Arkansas squad that beat Clemson (who beat Duke today), and should have beaten #10 Florida today. However, losing Solo on Maui made us stop again. We have had our lulls against SB. I think Creighton is just a better team. But now it seems like we have found our way again as a team, just in time. Having 3 road wins to start is such a huge advantage. It's like getting some road goals in Champions League. When Kreklow and Bird come back, we're going to have experienced depth (now that Behrens, Powers and Mathews are getting battle tested). I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, and the upside growth as we head into February and March.

socaltownie;842260417 said:

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As some of you might remember, Monty way back when noted that it would take a while to recover from BB years. The classes were out of balance. There was a lack of talent. There were some problems.

What we are seeing is the kind of teams that would just give the Bears fits under Braun. Disciplined Basketball. Kids playing to their roles. Finding ways to win. Running good half court.

Prior to this years squad though we didn't have the talent for Monty's true brilliance to show. We had years with a point guard who is a great kid and warrior but is short. We had bigs who played on 1 leg....or who were "weight" challenged. We sometimes couldn't shoot the rock from outside if our lives depended upon it. Now we won some games. Did well. But never had the pieces.



Now we do. I am so impressed with Justin at the point and how he reminds me of some of the Furd guards that would crush us. I think that Solo and David are starting to remind me, in their own ways, of some of those Furd front lines. We have the pieces (if not the complete uber awesomeness of beating ones rival by 50...well not really uber except that said coach now coaches for US) because guards continually penetrated, kicked and wings hit three pointers.

Lots more to do. I wouldn't have believed we could do this with Bird and Ricky down but now I believe. It could be a very very special year.

Go Bears!!

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Today's second half comeback was half of a 50 pt. blowout. We'll see one this year with #fullsquad

socaltownie;842260417 said:

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As some of you might remember, Monty way back when noted that it would take a while to recover from BB years. The classes were out of balance. There was a lack of talent. There were some problems.

What we are seeing is the kind of teams that would just give the Bears fits under Braun. Disciplined Basketball. Kids playing to their roles. Finding ways to win. Running good half court.

Prior to this years squad though we didn't have the talent for Monty's true brilliance to show. We had years with a point guard who is a great kid and warrior but is short. We had bigs who played on 1 leg....or who were "weight" challenged. We sometimes couldn't shoot the rock from outside if our lives depended upon it. Now we won some games. Did well. But never had the pieces.

Now we do. I am so impressed with Justin at the point and how he reminds me of some of the Furd guards that would crush us. I think that Solo and David are starting to remind me, in their own ways, of some of those Furd front lines. We have the pieces (if not the complete uber awesomeness of beating ones rival by 50...well not really uber except that said coach now coaches for US) because guards continually penetrated, kicked and wings hit three pointers.

Lots more to do. I wouldn't have believed we could do this with Bird and Ricky down but now I believe. It could be a very very special year.

Go Bears!!

---

+1

For openers, every time Ty Wallace missed a three, he would find himself on the bench for an extended period of time.

socaltownie;842260417 said:

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As some of you might remember, Monty way back when noted that it would take a while to recover from BB years. The classes were out of balance. There was a lack of talent. There were some problems.

What we are seeing is the kind of teams that would just give the Bears fits under Braun. Disciplined Basketball. Kids playing to their roles. Finding ways to win. Running good half court.

Prior to this years squad though we didn't have the talent for Monty's true brilliance to show. We had years with a point guard who is a great kid and warrior but is short. We had bigs who played on 1 leg....or who were "weight" challenged. We sometimes couldn't shoot the rock from outside if our lives depended upon it. Now we won some games. Did well. But never had the pieces.

Now we do. I am so impressed with Justin at the point and how he reminds me of some of the Furd guards that would crush us. I think that Solo and David are starting to remind me, in their own ways, of some of those Furd front lines. We have the pieces (if not the complete uber awesomeness of beating ones rival by 50...well not really uber except that said coach now coaches for US) because guards continually penetrated, kicked and wings hit three pointers.

Lots more to do. I wouldn't have believed we could do this with Bird and Ricky down but now I believe. It could be a very very special year.

Go Bears!!

---

Just kidding! So much better having you walking on the sunny side of the street!

Go Bears, indeed!

Yeah, I want to read a confessional, what made you turn from constant critic to sunshine pumper?

Lol lost me with the reference to "short" point guards. Jerome was conference POY and one of the best I have ever seen here...

bigcocoon007;842260620 said:

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Lol lost me with the reference to "short" point guards. Jerome was conference POY and one of the best I have ever seen here...

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Well that is only on one side of the court. Guards CONSTANTLY shot over him, posted him up and generally his lack of length created massive problems. Teams also drove on him - though by his senior year that had gotten a BIT better.

BI= a pretty consistent over emphasis on offensive basketball. I blame the NBA for doing that to you.

concordtom;842260618 said:

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Yeah, I want to read a confessional, what made you turn from constant critic to sunshine pumper?

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Mathews, Bird, and Solo's development. Showed we can recruit (finally?) talent equal to Monty's Furd talent. Changes on the coaching staff also critical.

socaltownie;842260647 said:

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Well that is only on one side of the court. Guards CONSTANTLY shot over him, posted him up and generally his lack of length created massive problems. Teams also drove on him - though by his senior year that had gotten a BIT better.

BI= a pretty consistent over emphasis on offensive basketball. I blame the NBA for doing that to you.

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The over emphasis on offense is pervasive in basketball. I blame a lack of individual metrics for defensive performance. Steals and blocks do not tell most of the story. I guess there are other metrics, but they are not readily available. It takes some skill and experience to recognize poor, or good, defensive play. I acknowledge that I am not good at it, but at least I recognize that I am not good at it.

For example, what about Powers in the last few games? He has been providing much needed offense, but has he been a big defensive liability as some of us (including me) had predicted, due to a slowness of foot?

socaltownie;842260647 said:

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Well that is only on one side of the court. Guards CONSTANTLY shot over him, posted him up and generally his lack of length created massive problems. Teams also drove on him - though by his senior year that had gotten a BIT better.

BI= a pretty consistent over emphasis on offensive basketball. I blame the NBA for doing that to you.

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nah it was Jerome leading us to the pac championship that did that to me. Only Daniel Hackett from USC actually posted up against Jerome.

Bearprof;842260660 said:

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The over emphasis on offense is pervasive in basketball. I blame a lack of individual metrics for defensive performance. Steals and blocks do not tell most of the story. I guess there are other metrics, but they are not readily available. It takes some skill and experience to recognize poor, or good, defensive play. I acknowledge that I am not good at it, but at least I recognize that I am not good at it.

For example, what about Powers in the last few games? He has been providing much needed offense, but has he been a big defensive liability as some of us (including me) had predicted, due to a slowness of foot?

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I would have to go back and look but I think Monty is doing a good (great?) job with the rotation of hiding Jeff in those situations. In a number of cases he has defended the four in instances where the four isn't a great post guy. Basically Monty is saying there that what he wants is to sacrifice the height in the post because he trusts Jeff's fundamentals AND because by playing him against the 4 he doesn't risk Jeff being beaten on the bounce up top and having one of the 2 critical helping bigs come over and pick up a foul.

bigcocoon007;842260670 said:

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nah it was Jerome leading us to the pac championship that did that to me. Only Daniel Hackett from USC actually posted up against Jerome.

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Yeah right. And the rest of the conference consistently shot over him. We "won" league in a very down year. Remind me how we did in the tournaments.

socaltownie;842260672 said:

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Yeah right. And the rest of the conference consistently shot over him. We "won" league in a very down year. Remind me how we did in the tournaments.

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Oh come on, don't disparage what was a great year for cal, despite the tournament outcome.

Bearprof;842260675 said:

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Oh come on, don't disparage what was a great year for cal, despite the tournament outcome.

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It was a very good year. Great that we won conference for the first time in my lifetime. Great for JR and that whole team. But that crown led a lot of guys to miss that the EARLY MM years at Cal had a big flaw - the lack of sheer athletic talent able to play through contact and to create their own shots when in isolation at the end of the clock - skills critical as the season goes along and refs start to "let em play" and when you have 24 hours max to scout and develop a specific game plan,

What alot of people here don't get is the vast upgrade in that skill between, say, Justin, Wallace, Bird and Mathews over JR, Patrick, Joreg and Knezevic. Not taking away anything from those guys...and they all had fun skills....but the were not of the sheer athletic ability and one on one skill of our current starting guards/wings.

socaltownie;842260672 said:

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Yeah right. And the rest of the conference consistently shot over him. We "won" league in a very down year. Remind me how we did in the tournaments.

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it wasn't that long ago but I'll remind you... we got sent across the country and beat Louisville in the first round of the NCAA tournament. So in addition to winning our conference for the first time in 50 years, we went further than about 320 (90th percentile) other division 1 teams.

Oh and Jerome finished the first half making a half court shot at the buzzer, that looked good from the get go.

Bearprof;842260675 said:

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Oh come on, don't disparage what was a great year for cal, despite the tournament outcome.

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And actually, I'd say Cal performed pretty well in the tournament. Won their first game in a blowout and then lost to the eventual champion (Duke). It's not a stretch to say we might have advanced to the second weekend if we hadn't been stuck with an 8 seed (again, since the conference was down and our wins were less impressive as a result).

The early MM years were also mostly played with BB players

Enjoy the wins, we could be the Cubs

I liked how your post started.
Yes, I do remember Monty's team just carving Cal up. It was such a helpless feeling watching those games, because you knew that no matter what great play we would have, there was no way their lead wouldn't just keep getting bigger.

However, where you lost me was when you started talking about the reason being talent.

When I watch this Cal team, I see the type of Stanford team that didn't just win because of their talent, but because of how well they played team basketball. Coach Monty coaches up a team to play disciplined, effective, efficient basketball. He puts together game plans that take away the opponents top 2 players. He identifies weaknesses and tendencies of teams and players. And he preps his team for the next game.

He is also an outstanding game day coach. He makes good lineups, substitutions, manages the rotations and clock, and makes good adjustments.

When he was at stanford, most considered him the best coach in the league. Now, people are starting to think the same thing now, even with some other teams being more successful (e.g. Miller)

The seeding was horrible the year we won the conference. Pat got knocked out of the game in the opening minutes against the eventual champion Duke. The talents level was much higher prior to Monty's arrival: Ryan & Leon.

SCT:

While I agree about short pg's in general, let us not forget that MM's best ever point guard was only 5-9 (Brevan Knight).

socaltownie;842260671 said:

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I would have to go back and look but I think Monty is doing a good (great?) job with the rotation of hiding Jeff in those situations. In a number of cases he has defended the four in instances where the four isn't a great post guy. Basically Monty is saying there that what he wants is to sacrifice the height in the post because he trusts Jeff's fundamentals AND because by playing him against the 4 he doesn't risk Jeff being beaten on the bounce up top and having one of the 2 critical helping bigs come over and pick up a foul.

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I thought that in the two minutes he played against Oregon, he was overmatched in speed and quickness -- Oregon recognized it right away, and I think Monte did too, since he sat for the rest of the game.

Against Furd and OSU, though, he could stay with people and take advantage at the other end, where he was absolute money.

He seems a lot like the Monte version of RFK, except Monte picks his spots, rather than making him a starter.

He's looking quicker and flashier than I remember him.

Fun to watch how fast euros move the rock around the court

socaltownie;842260417 said:

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As some of you might remember, Monty way back when noted that it would take a while to recover from BB years. The classes were out of balance. There was a lack of talent. There were some problems.

What we are seeing is the kind of teams that would just give the Bears fits under Braun. Disciplined Basketball. Kids playing to their roles. Finding ways to win. Running good half court.

Prior to this years squad though we didn't have the talent for Monty's true brilliance to show. We had years with a point guard who is a great kid and warrior but is short. We had bigs who played on 1 leg....or who were "weight" challenged. We sometimes couldn't shoot the rock from outside if our lives depended upon it. Now we won some games. Did well. But never had the pieces.

Now we do. I am so impressed with Justin at the point and how he reminds me of some of the Furd guards that would crush us. I think that Solo and David are starting to remind me, in their own ways, of some of those Furd front lines. We have the pieces (if not the complete uber awesomeness of beating ones rival by 50...well not really uber except that said coach now coaches for US) because guards continually penetrated, kicked and wings hit three pointers.

Lots more to do. I wouldn't have believed we could do this with Bird and Ricky down but now I believe. It could be a very very special year.

Go Bears!!

---

While I agree that we are a well coached team that is getting results similar to those Stanfurd teams, I disagree with your talent assessment.

1) Talent is a pretty vague term that takes many forms. Plus, the knock on Monty's teams was that that they were un-athletic, so how can that be a benchmark?

2) Monty's classic Stanfurd teams were big and strong in the post. Solo is great, but he is not the same kind of player that typified those Cardinal teams. If anything, we more resembled that with Makuri and Kamp.

3) In just pure athletic terms I think this is a toss up: Cobbs/Ty/Kreklow/Bird VS Randle/Theo/Patrick/Jorge. Then you have Kravish vs Kamp? Solo vs Makuri?

I don't think there is an athleticism disparity--and this team has yet to achieve as much. What this year's team does have is more length, more depth, more fluid offense, and the potential to be stronger on defense. But these teams are not opposite ends of some talent spectrum.

Is there really a big disparity in talent between this year's team and Monty's first Cal teams? Not sure that's true.

Say what you want about Randle, but he was an offensive juggernaut in his last two seasons. There were games that he almost singlehandedly won for us. Sure, the defense was terrible, but unfortunately the rest of the team just wasn't good enough on that end to cover for that deficiency. PC was good, even if he didn't quite fulfill some fans' expectations. Theo was underrated. I guess you could say the biggest difference between now and then is the quality the Solomon and Kravish bring to the table. There's still a lack of depth, however, something that Monty's Stanford teams did not have a problem with once he got it rolling over there.

With the exception of Bird, we still aren't recruiting at a very high level, at least not at the level of Arizona and UCLA. That could change for us on the coming years, but it's unlikely. Monty's done well in landing guys like Crabbe and Solomon and Kravish, guys that the top tier programs didn't want, but have performed very well. Those are the guys he's landed and should continue to land--guys that get passed over by the so-called "elite" programs but want to stay on the West Coast and play in the PAC-12.

tsubamoto2001;842261145 said:

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Is there really a big disparity in talent between this year's team and Monty's first Cal teams? Not sure that's true.

Say what you want about Randle, but he was an offensive juggernaut in his last two seasons. There were games that he almost singlehandedly won for us. Sure, the defense was terrible, but unfortunately the rest of the team just wasn't good enough on that end to cover for that deficiency. PC was good, even if he didn't quite fulfill some fans' expectations. Theo was underrated. I guess you could say the biggest difference between now and then is the quality the Solomon and Kravish bring to the table. There's still a lack of depth, however, something that Monty's Stanford teams did not have a problem with once he got it rolling over there.

With the exception of Bird, we still aren't recruiting at a very high level, at least not at the level of Arizona and UCLA. That could change for us on the coming years, but it's unlikely. Monty's done well in landing guys like Crabbe and Solomon and Kravish, guys that the top tier programs didn't want, but have performed very well. Those are the guys he's landed and should continue to land--guys that get passed over by the so-called "elite" programs but want to stay on the West Coast and play in the PAC-12.

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I guess I look at our "third" option (and our fourth) at the wing and see guys who currently are able to create their own shot. Theo was a great warrior but couldn't take kids off the bounce. Once you get to Nicco? Contrast with Bird and Mathews - who ARE able to create in iso at the end of the clock. Solo is a far superior athlete to MSF.

Monty's "system" works pretty well with kids that have limited skills. But it REALLY gets going when you have guys in the post who can pass and wings that are able to shoot at a fairly high clip. That is what we now have and haven't prior.

UrsaMajor;842260842 said:

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SCT:

While I agree about short pg's in general, let us not forget that MM's best ever point guard was only 5-9 (Brevan Knight).

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Other than Knight (5'9) and maybe Lee (6'1), is there another PG from his 18 years at Stanford that comes close to Cobbs' level?

Monty did not generally have great PGs at Stanford, and only at the end had teams that were even close to this team in athleticism. He did always have far more depth on the front line than we have.

socaltownie;842261155 said:

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I guess I look at our "third" option (and our fourth) at the wing and see guys who currently are able to create their own shot. Theo was a great warrior but couldn't take kids off the bounce. Once you get to Nicco? Contrast with Bird and Mathews - who ARE able to create in iso at the end of the clock. Solo is a far superior athlete to MSF.

Monty's "system" works pretty well with kids that have limited skills. But it REALLY gets going when you have guys in the post who can pass and wings that are able to shoot at a fairly high clip. That is what we now have and haven't prior.

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Actually, Theo did have game off the bounce by the time he was an upperclassman. It's PC who never really looked that comfortable doing it.

calumnus;842261177 said:

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Other than Knight (5'9) and maybe Lee (6'1), is there another PG from his 18 years at Stanford that comes close to Cobbs' level?

Monty did not generally have great PGs at Stanford, and only at the end had teams that were even close to this team in athleticism. He did always have far more depth on the front line than we have.

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Chris Hernandez didn't have huge stats, but I'd put him right there with Cobbs. His intangibles were elite, better than Cobbs has shown thus far, IMO.

calumnus;842261177 said:

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Other than Knight (5'9) and maybe Lee (6'1), is there another PG from his 18 years at Stanford that comes close to Cobbs' level?

Monty did not generally have great PGs at Stanford, and only at the end had teams that were even close to this team in athleticism. He did always have far more depth on the front line than we have.

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I would have to go through them all but I ALWAYS remember Monty having good Point guards that could create in his offense. I always thought his advantages down low were good post guys but ESPECIALLY good interior passing and then wings that were near automatic when playing "in to out". That is still the thing missing but it is getting better than in the early years.

Still SMH that people thing the conference championship team had better/as good as athletic ability as this roster.

socaltownie;842260672 said:

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Yeah right. And the rest of the conference consistently shot over him. We "won" league in a very down year. Remind me how we did in the tournaments.

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Ask Rick Pitino what he thought of Jerome.

calumnus;842261177 said:

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Other than Knight (5'9) and maybe Lee (6'1), is there another PG from his 18 years at Stanford that comes close to Cobbs' level?

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Chris Hernandez.

The 'furds were not relevant prior to Knight. After that they had three seasons where Monty filled the pg spot with a stop-gap senior (Mosley, McDonald, and Barnes).

Was Lichti a pg? I wasn't following college hoops back then.