drizzlyboy;842301642 said:

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Is it possible that Turner's success at getting UCI its first 20-win season in a long time has more with his ability to bring an 8-footer to the team than his coaching ability?

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Yes, definitely possible. It may even be probable. I did not see our game against them (or any other UCI game)--so I have no opinion on his coaching ability. However, he definitely seems to be a young, likeable coach with a lot of solid recommendations.

4thGenCal;842301657 said:

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To clarify the process - John Wilton will make the final call with input from Sandy and a "rubber stamp" from the Chancellor. Pursued but told no were Ammaker, Few, Boyle, Brey....in the running next were TD, Pasternack, Mussleman and Turner.....Pasternack with his known recruiting prowess and experience at a high profile team is giving TD a solid push. TD with Monty's support and the leverage of continuity is in the lead following the failure to lure a Big Name.
The key question is: can the current staff up their recruiting game to keep the local high profile players made more difficult, without the proven coaching skill of MM?

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This sounds about right.
If true, it should be a no brainer for TD to secure the job.

4thGenCal;842301657 said:

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To clarify the process - John Wilton will make the final call with input from Sandy and a "rubber stamp" from the Chancellor. Pursued but told no were Ammaker, Few, Boyle, Brey....in the running next were TD, Pasternack, Mussleman and Turner.....Pasternack with his known recruiting prowess and experience at a high profile team is giving TD a solid push. TD with Monty's support and the leverage of continuity is in the lead following the failure to lure a Big Name.
The key question is: can the current staff up their recruiting game to keep the local high profile players made more difficult, without the proven coaching skill of MM?

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No mention of Gates?

Pasternack made an ass of himself in that game where he got his foot tangled in Jorge's shorts--before and after. I saw enough there to not like what I saw.

LINK

I would definitely support DeCuire over Pasternack.

4thGenCal;842301657 said:

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To clarify the process - John Wilton will make the final call with input from Sandy and a "rubber stamp" from the Chancellor. Pursued but told no were Ammaker, Few, Boyle, Brey....in the running next were TD, Pasternack, Mussleman and Turner.....Pasternack with his known recruiting prowess and experience at a high profile team is giving TD a solid push. TD with Monty's support and the leverage of continuity is in the lead following the failure to lure a Big Name.
The key question is: can the current staff up their recruiting game to keep the local high profile players made more difficult, without the proven coaching skill of MM?

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while pasternack has some huge donor support, are you concerned about feedback i've received from multiple nba, college & hs sources that part of arizona's recruting success is tied to payments?

Shocky1;842301667 said:

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while pasternack has some huge donor support, are you concerned about feedback i've received from multiple nba, college & hs sources that part of arizona's recruting success is tied to payments?

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Absolutely a concern - and I think just simply "so cal" that things would blow up about a nanosecond after he signed with us. I leave it to others to determine how that would/could trail to him if it turns out "The Kicker" was the bag man.

drizzlyboy;842301642 said:

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Is it possible that Turner's success at getting UCI its first 20-win season in a long time has more with his ability to bring an 8-footer to the team than his coaching ability?

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Isn't that a part of the job?

socaltownie;842301591 said:

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Well I am in on #teamtravis but honestly - you are gauging your belief about youthful energy from SHOCKY, not the world's most reliable journalist (IMHO)

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Guess I gave you another opportunity to snipe at Shocky. The thrust of the question was not Shocky's validity, but what do you think about DeCuire, Labagh, and Theo? Any response. Shocky may not be a great journalist, but he sure seems a great fan, and quite knowledgeable about just any golf course one could dream of. I kinda like that along with his lack of tolerance for dumbazzes.

socaltownie;842301674 said:

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Absolutely a concern - and I think just simply "so cal" that things would blow up about a nanosecond after he signed with us. I leave it to others to determine how that would/could trail to him if it turns out "The Kicker" was the bag man.

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Joe is a person of high integrity and is strongly supported by several of the largest Donors. I can't comment/know about other Arizona staff members. He has consistently kicked our staff's butt in signing several top local players and just closed on Stanley Johnson of Mater Dei. The reflex kick when a player plows into one, is just that - nothing of any further comment.
What is appealing with respect to his qualifications are: intense work ethic, knows the Cal culture, outstanding recruiter, previous HC experience, #1 assistant at top 5 school and extremely well respected by Mater Dei and the Oakland Soldiers program.
Betting money is that TD gets this as continuity is being pushed, no transfers occurring and support among key players (which is normal).
Can Cal risk continuing on a path of average when the league is clearly becoming very strong and finishing in the top 3 will be a stretch?

OdontoBear66;842301681 said:

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Guess I gave you another opportunity to snipe at Shocky. The thrust of the question was not Shocky's validity, but what do you think about DeCuire, Labagh, and Theo? Any response. Shocky may not be a great journalist, but he sure seems a great fan, and quite knowledgeable about just any golf course one could dream of. I kinda like that along with his lack of tolerance for dumbazzes.

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How do you have any idea of whether TD has (or doesn't have) "youthful energy"? Ditto Labagh (unless you hang out and watch JC Basketball. They might be energizer bunnies. They might be guys who can put 2 sentences together on their best days. Who the heck knows. For a guy who wanted to promote a successor I wish Monty had put TD out front just a bit more.

I like TD because we A) Have a good class we brought in last year and B) have a pretty decent class we are bringing in next. A good class if we could get the Austrian. None of the candidates to date would bring ANYONE with them. Would be shocked if the Austrian doesn't sign with Utah and honestly we could lose at least Diallo as well. I will not even speculate about transfers. Plus if it falls apart it is a cheap redo in three years.

4thGenCal;842301682 said:

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Joe is a person of high integrity and is strongly supported by several of the largest Donors. I can't comment/know about other Arizona staff members. He has consistently kicked our staff's butt in signing several top local players and just closed on Stanley Johnson of Mater Dei. The reflex kick when a player plows into one, is just that - nothing of any further comment.
What is appealing with respect to his qualifications are: intense work ethic, knows the Cal culture, outstanding recruiter, previous HC experience, #1 assistant at top 5 school and extremely well respected by Mater Dei and the Oakland Soldiers program.
Betting money is that TD gets this as continuity is being pushed, no transfers occurring and support among key players (which is normal).
Can Cal risk continuing on a path of average when the league is clearly becoming very strong and finishing in the top 3 will be a stretch?

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is it Joe or is it zona? That is simply a near impossible thing to know without the largest donors sitting down and talking in very detailed and candid conversations with the families he has gone head to head against us.

4thGenCal;842301682 said:

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Joe is a person of high integrity and is strongly supported by several of the largest Donors. I can't comment/know about other Arizona staff members. He has consistently kicked our staff's butt in signing several top local players and just closed on Stanley Johnson of Mater Dei. The reflex kick when a player plows into one, is just that - nothing of any further comment.
What is appealing with respect to his qualifications are: intense work ethic, knows the Cal culture, outstanding recruiter, previous HC experience, #1 assistant at top 5 school and extremely well respected by Mater Dei and the Oakland Soldiers program.
Betting money is that TD gets this as continuity is being pushed, no transfers occurring and support among key players (which is normal).
Can Cal risk continuing on a path of average when the league is clearly becoming very strong and finishing in the top 3 will be a stretch?

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The transfer argument is ridiculous. Other than Bird, who would be missed? And Bird is unlikely to transfer because it would slow his path to the NBA. A much better argument is Shocky's that there are guys who want to come in 2015 and beyond. But after so many years of mediocre recruiting, I am skeptical.

Sluggo

socaltownie;842301684 said:

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is it Joe or is it zona? That is simply a near impossible thing to know without the largest donors sitting down and talking in very detailed and candid conversations with the families he has gone head to head against us.

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Miller hired Pasternack because of his prowess in recruiting.

sluggo_Cal;842301685 said:

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The transfer argument is ridiculous. Other than Bird, who would be missed? And Bird is unlikely to transfer because it would slow his path to the NBA. A much better argument is Shocky's that there are guys who want to come in 2015 and beyond. But after so many years of mediocre recruiting, I am skeptical.

Sluggo

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I am not going to "name names" but if you think we couldn't easily have 2+ transfers and at least 1 guy ask for a release you haven't been following closely.

If you think that Joe P. is a great recruiter you are willing to roll those dice. All I know is that Zona has ALWAYS recruited well. Remind me of the record of the core guys that Joe "uber recruiter" brought in between 2001 and 2007 for the Bears.

socaltownie;842301691 said:

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I am not going to "name names" but if you think we couldn't easily have 2+ transfers and at least 1 guy ask for a release you haven't been following closely.

If you think that Joe P. is a great recruiter you are willing to roll those dice. All I know is that Zona has ALWAYS recruited well. Remind me of the record of the core guys that Joe "uber recruiter" brought in between 2001 and 2007 for the Bears.

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I didn't say there would not be transfers. From a purely competitive point of view, a couple transfers would be advantageous. A release (Rorie) would be disappointing, but not devastating.

I wonder how good Joe P. would be in terms of player development and game day coaching, both weaknesses of Braun. I am hoping for someone strong in these two areas who recruits well enough.

Sluggo

Remind me why Krystowiak is not on the list plz. He is from the Monty tree, has Utah going the right direction, Has NBA pedigree, and could recruit here far better than he could at Utah.

MilleniaBear;842301697 said:

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Remind me why Krystowiak is not on the list plz. He is from the Monty tree, has Utah going the right direction, Has NBA pedigree, and could recruit here far better than he could at Utah.

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He likely said no. He also signed an extension with Utah or at the very least has agreed to it.

socaltownie;842301691 said:

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I am not going to "name names" but if you think we couldn't easily have 2+ transfers and at least 1 guy ask for a release you haven't been following closely.

If you think that Joe P. is a great recruiter you are willing to roll those dice. All I know is that Zona has ALWAYS recruited well. Remind me of the record of the core guys that Joe "uber recruiter" brought in between 2001 and 2007 for the Bears.

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Agreed about Arizona, but Sean Miller is also a good recruiter.

If we are going to hire a young guy who is a good recruiter, then let's hire Dennis Gates.

4thGenCal;842301682 said:

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Joe is a person of high integrity.. The reflex kick when a player plows into one, is just that - nothing of any further comment.

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If he was of high integrity and he "reflexively" kicked (and then kicked again and again) then at least be apologetic afterward. Instead he acted like a jerk.

He may have the support of certain donors (who were also Braun supporters?), but that will not put butts in the seats.

LINK

At the time Cal fans, and even a lot of Arizona fans, agreed the kick was obviously intentional and Pasternack showed no remorse:

Quote:

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you can clearly see the prick mouthing “get off me”

by fiatlux on Feb 3, 2012 | 2:36 PM

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Quote:

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Pasternack should at least be suspended for this. I did gain some respect for Arizona’s HC, though.

by Oski4Heisman on Feb 3, 2012 | 4:16 PM

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Quote:

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You can tell by his reaction after whatever he does that he expects Jorge to retaliate somehow. You wouldn’t respond like that if it was just accidental. If anything you would apologize. His face says it all.

by nickle on Feb 3, 2012 | 2:41 PM

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Quote:

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Looks for real, as the guy has a pissed look on his face like Jorge did something wrong. Man, Monty should raise hell with Arizona and get that coach disciplined.

by Calbear91 on Feb 3, 2012 | 2:38 PM

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Quote:

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I remember when Pasternack was the junior assistant coach to Braun. They sent him over to do the pre-game chalk talk at Alumni House. He had a pretty negative attitude, didn’t like taking any questions from the audience, which he seemed to take as a personal affront to either himself or Braun. And these were pretty much softball questions from a friendly audience…

Doesn’t surprise me at all to see him snippy on the bench.

by SanMateoBear on Feb 3, 2012 | 4:53 PM]

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sluggo_Cal;842301695 said:

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I didn't say there would not be transfers. From a purely competitive point of view, a couple transfers would be advantageous. A release (Rorie) would be disappointing, but not devastating.

I wonder how good Joe P. would be in terms of player development and game day coaching, both weaknesses of Braun. I am hoping for someone strong in these two areas who recruits well enough.

Sluggo

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I don't think a couple of transfers would be at all advantageous unless I get to decide who they are, which isn't how it works. It's not at all frivolous to be concerned about it.

Why would a scholar/athlete even consider transferring from the Greatest Public University in the world? That just doesn't make any sense.

antipattern;842301622 said:

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This kind of comment is mystifying me. If some one is "very highly regarded" then by definition they're not going to be "names that we haven't heard much about"!

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Let me clarify: "Highly regarded" as someone who might very well be a good HC at a major program in the future, but has not gotten that far in his career yet, because he is, I dunno, 34 or something. A rising star who we take a bit of a gamble on (a gamble becaue he is not yet a proven HC at a major). Somebody who we snatch now, before others want him in 2-5 years.

I am certainly not up on names that could fill up a list like that, but I would like to have an Athletic Director who was.

Big C_Cal;842301718 said:

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Let me clarify: "Highly regarded" as someone who might very well be a good HC at a major program in the future, but has not gotten that far in his career yet, because he is, I dunno, 34 or something. A rising star who we take a bit of a gamble on (a gamble becaue he is not yet a proven HC at a major). Somebody who we snatch now, before others want him in 2-5 years.

I am certainly not up on names that could fill up a list like that, but I would like to have an Athletic Director who was.

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Somebody like this
http://www.kuathletics.com/coaches.aspx?rc=710&path=mbball

(Which took me just a bit of thinking and research)

There is a guy with real experience (not faux like the guy who was under 500 at New Orleans) and knows Cal. Why didn't we interview HIM? He aint getting the Kansas job cause Bill S. isn't going ANYWHERE.

Actually seriously - why in the bleep did we not reach out to Townsend?????? A little more digging and it turns out he has gotten the number 1 class THREE times while assistant in charge of recruiting (and of course landed the Rockfish class of old). THAT would be a monster hire.

4thGenCal;842301657 said:

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To clarify the process - John Wilton will make the final call with input from Sandy and a "rubber stamp" from the Chancellor. Pursued but told no were Ammaker, Few, Boyle, Brey....in the running next were TD, Pasternack, Mussleman and Turner.....Pasternack with his known recruiting prowess and experience at a high profile team is giving TD a solid push. TD with Monty's support and the leverage of continuity is in the lead following the failure to lure a Big Name.
The key question is: can the current staff up their recruiting game to keep the local high profile players made more difficult, without the proven coaching skill of MM?

---

What is John Wilton's position, Vice-Chancellor? In the past, for hirings of football and men's basketball Head Coaches, haven't the Chancellor and the Vice-Chancellor to whom the Athletic Director report BOTH been "rubber stamps", with the decision made by the AD (in close consultation with major donors and some others)?

Just wondering if the process has changed this time. Wasn't it Sandy who pulled the trigger on Dykes (no jokes here, please...)?

socaltownie;842301721 said:

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Somebody like this
http://www.kuathletics.com/coaches.aspx?rc=710&path=mbball

(Which took me just a bit of thinking and research)

There is a guy with real experience (not faux like the guy who was under 500 at New Orleans) and knows Cal. Why didn't we interview HIM? He aint getting the Kansas job cause Bill S. isn't going ANYWHERE.

Actually seriously - why in the bleep did we not reach out to Townsend?????? A little more digging and it turns out he has gotten the number 1 class THREE times while assistant in charge of recruiting (and of course landed the Rockfish class of old). THAT would be a monster hire.

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Good candidate to interview. Has been named the nation's top recruiter. From San Jose and a California CC (Menlo). Maybe everybody at Cal is convinced he is dirty because of the good recruiting he did here?

Wilton is the vice-chancellor for business and administration and the AD's boss. Don't know if he will rubber-stamp or have significant input (I'm sure he will have significant input regarding salary and contract).

socaltownie;842301721 said:

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Somebody like this
http://www.kuathletics.com/coaches.aspx?rc=710&path=mbball

(Which took me just a bit of thinking and research)

There is a guy with real experience (not faux like the guy who was under 500 at New Orleans) and knows Cal. Why didn't we interview HIM? He aint getting the Kansas job cause Bill S. isn't going ANYWHERE.

Actually seriously - why in the bleep did we not reach out to Townsend?????? A little more digging and it turns out he has gotten the number 1 class THREE times while assistant in charge of recruiting (and of course landed the Rockfish class of old). THAT would be a monster hire.

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There's two chances here. One is that there's some good reason why no one reached out to him that none of us know about. The other is that you just found a better candidate than Cal did by searching on the Internet for 20 minutes. I know which I think is more likely.

socaltownie;842301721 said:

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Somebody like this
http://www.kuathletics.com/coaches.aspx?rc=710&path=mbball

Why didn't we interview HIM? He aint getting the Kansas job cause Bill S. isn't going ANYWHERE.

Actually seriously - why in the bleep did we not reach out to Townsend??????

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Because we don't have a real athletic director. We have a director of olympic and minor sports who doesn't seem to understand football or men's basketball.

antipattern;842301732 said:

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You just found a better candidate than Cal did by searching on the Internet for 20 minutes.

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Probably quite true!

UrsaMajor;842301730 said:

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Wilton is the vice-chancellor for business and administration and the AD's boss. Don't know if he will rubber-stamp or have significant input (I'm sure he will have significant input regarding salary and contract).

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John Wilton is making the final call given the last hiring call with Dykes - the AD future will reside with the progress or lack thereof of this season's record.
Despite a few opinions written on this topic - Joe Pasternack has very strong support among key donors. And in my opinion, Joe has the ability and respect among key local HS/AAU programs in Calif to take our program to higher levels than obtained by the past staff. Finally insinuating that he "may have been involved in illegal recruiting" is heresy and without merit.

4thGenCal;842301742 said:

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John Wilton is making the final call given the last hiring call with Dykes - the AD future will reside with the progress or lack thereof of this season's record.
Despite a few opinions written on this topic - Joe Pasternack has very strong support among key donors. And in my opinion, Joe has the ability and respect among key local HS/AAU programs in Calif to take our program to higher levels than obtained by the past staff. Finally insinuating that he "may have been involved in illegal recruiting" is heresy and without merit.

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Hearsay and heresy aren't the same

I've seen published reports that Pasternack is not a candidate. Are you saying those are wrong?

calumnus;842301708 said:

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If he was of high integrity and he "reflexively" kicked (and then kicked again and again) then at least be apologetic afterward. Instead he acted like a jerk.

He may have the support of certain donors (who were also Braun supporters?), but that will not put butts in the seats.

LINK

At the time Cal fans, and even a lot of Arizona fans, agreed the kick was obviously intentional and Pasternack showed no remorse:

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I have hated the guy since the KICK incident. Saw it with my own two eyes and it looked bad. Jorge was pissed and wanted a piece of him. I'm on Jorge side on this one.

Basketball Bear;842301789 said:

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I have hated the guy since the KICK incident. Saw it with my own two eyes and it looked bad. Jorge was pissed and wanted a piece of him. I'm on Jorge side on this one.

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At least make it a condition that this guy apologizes to Jorge. Mejor tarde que nunca!

Go Bears!

4thGenCal;842301742 said:

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John Wilton is making the final call given the last hiring call with Dykes - the AD future will reside with the progress or lack thereof of this season's record.
Despite a few opinions written on this topic - Joe Pasternack has very strong support among key donors. And in my opinion, Joe has the ability and respect among key local HS/AAU programs in Calif to take our program to higher levels than obtained by the past staff. Finally insinuating that he "may have been involved in illegal recruiting" is heresy and without merit.

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Doesn't this comment belong on the "Why not Jesus Christ?" thread?

atoms;842301754 said:

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Hearsay and heresy aren't the same

Quote:

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Maybe it takes 5 generations of Beardom to know the difference!

Go Bears!

4thGenCal;842301742 said:

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John Wilton is making the final call given the last hiring call with Dykes - the AD future will reside with the progress or lack thereof of this season's record.
Despite a few opinions written on this topic - Joe Pasternack has very strong support among key donors. And in my opinion, Joe has the ability and respect among key local HS/AAU programs in Calif to take our program to higher levels than obtained by the past staff. Finally insinuating that he "may have been involved in illegal recruiting" is heresy and without merit.

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I don't know whether it's heresy. It might be calumny.