Bearprof;842301800 said:

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I don't know whether it's heresy. It might be calumny.

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Isn't that for poison oak?

Or is that just hearsay?

:facepalm

Originally Posted by drizzlyboy
Is it possible that Turner's success at getting UCI its first 20-win season in a long time has more with his ability to bring an 8-footer to the team than his coaching ability?

parentswerebears;842301678 said:

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Isn't that a part of the job?

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I don't know how Ndiaye was recruited to UCI, but it has the feel of a fluke of a recruiting job, which leads to a fluke of a 20-win season. Again, I don't mean disrespect to Turner, but UCI (another alma mater of mine) plays in the Big West. That's still a step below the mid-majors, so Turner's experience doesn't include recuriting or coaching against Pac-12 level of competition. Credit to UCI for scheduling four games against the Pac-12 this past season, going 1-3 with a win on the road against Washington.

Bearprof;842301800 said:

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I don't know whether it's heresy. It might be calumny.

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That is calumnious!

drizzlyboy;842301807 said:

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Originally Posted by drizzlyboy
Is it possible that Turner's success at getting UCI its first 20-win season in a long time has more with his ability to bring an 8-footer to the team than his coaching ability?




I don't know how Ndiaye was recruited to UCI, but it has the feel of a fluke of a recruiting job, which leads to a fluke of a 20-win season. Again, I don't mean disrespect to Turner, but UCI (another alma mater of mine) plays in the Big West. That's still a step below the mid-majors, so Turner's experience doesn't include recuriting or coaching against Pac-12 level of competition. Credit to UCI for scheduling four games against the Pac-12 this past season, going 1-3 with a win on the road against Washington.

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+1

I rarely chime in regarding coaches

I usually just support who ever is coach, and let others 'debate' the merits or de-merits of the coaches

however in this case, we don't have a coach yet, but I gotta put my opinion out there...

please no Pasternack!

First, I have very little memory of him as a coach at Cal
Wasn't he video boy?

I see little on his resume that says he would be successful at Cal, and I can't get out of my mind that he kicked Jorge

there is no way that was anything other then a punk move, and even Coach Miller felt that way at the time

some people may consider it a minor incident, but I think it showed his true colors as I think most people in that situation would have done the opposite. Try to 'catch' the falling player to prevent him from getting hurt, and at the minimum apologize to him

It's like someone slapping the girlfriend of the interviewer as they walk into the interview. Interview would be over before it starts.

HoopDreams;842301816 said:

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I rarely chime in regarding coaches

I usually just support who ever is coach, and let others 'debate' the merits or de-merits of the coaches

however in this case, we don't have a coach yet, but I gotta put my opinion out there...

please no Pasternack!

First, I have very little memory of him as a coach at Cal
Wasn't he video boy?

I see little on his resume that says he would be successful at Cal, and I can't get out of my mind that he kicked Jorge

there is no way that was anything other then a punk move, and even Coach Miller felt that way at the time

some people may consider it a minor incident, but I think it showed his true colors as I think most people in that situation would have done the opposite. Try to 'catch' the falling player to prevent him from getting hurt, and at the minimum apologize to him

It's like someone slapping the girlfriend of the interviewer as they walk into the interview. Interview would be over before it starts.

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Another Pasternack-the-video-boy story: I may have my guys wrong, but wasn't he the butt of a famous Rod Benson story, where Braun threw a ball in Pasternack's face to make a point?

atoms;842301754 said:

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Hearsay and heresy aren't the same

I've seen published reports that Pasternack is not a candidate. Are you saying those are wrong?

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe..none of the pursued established head coaches bit, in fact one coach used the interest Cal generated, as an inducement to get a raise.
Joe would bring a greatly increased recruiting prowess and we would sign the better local players immediately. Additionally it is very clear that the top donors would step up and support the basketball program is a much larger way than going forward with the current staff essentially in place.
This is not "heresay", these comments are based on discussions with the key donors and also being current with a few of the top local programs.
Not fully appreciated by this board is Pasternack's Head Coach experience and loyalty to New Orleans job he held. Joe took the job as a D1 program - lead it to the most wins achieved in over a decade and unfortunately due to Katrina, hit financial hardship and funds were reduced which had been supporting the program. The program was declassified to a D3 level, yet Pasternack honored his contract and completed his four years of leadership.
Its probably 60/40 TD amongst the Wilton/Sandy/Dirks committee, due to a perceived continuity advantage and backing of Montgomery - however please understand, Pasternack has the experience, recruiting connections and donor support to lift the Cal program to levels not seen in the past decade.

4thGenCal;842301821 said:

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe..none of the pursued established head coaches bit, in fact one coach used the interest Cal generated, as an inducement to get a raise.
Joe would bring a greatly increased recruiting prowess and we would sign the better local players immediately. Additionally it is very clear that the top donors would step up and support the basketball program is a much larger way than going forward with the current staff essentially in place.
This is not "heresay", these comments are based on discussions with the key donors and also being current with a few of the top local programs.
Not fully appreciated by this board is Pasternack's Head Coach experience and loyalty to New Orleans job he held. Joe took the job as a D1 program - lead it to the most wins achieved in over a decade and unfortunately due to Katrina, hit financial hardship and funds were reduced which had been supporting the program. The program was declassified to a D3 level, yet Pasternack honored his contract and completed his four years of leadership.
Its probably 60/40 TD amongst the Wilton/Sandy/Dirks committee, due to a perceived continuity advantage and backing of Montgomery - however please understand, Pasternack has the experience, recruiting connections and donor support to lift the Cal program to levels not seen in the past decade.

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as one of the meb fund donors who is touching base with other boosters, you are 100% incorrect that pasternack has the support of cal's donors...pasternack has the support of one major donor, that's it

pasternack is part of the illegal payment scheme of arizona players, people who are in the nba, college & hs level will confirm this fact...if you need names of my sources, sent me a private message & let's meet for lunch (i'm playing sf golf club later this week)

josh was arrogant & alienated both cal employees & cal fans during his time as an assistant coach in berkeley...his role in the ben braun academic cesspool that mike & staff lifted us out of is not forgotten by those that care about cal's reputation as the #1 ranked public university in the world

his kick of jorge was one thing but his insincere sorry azz apology later under duress from the then arizona ad says volumes about his character

at new oreleans, a school with virtually no academic standards for student atheltes, he was mediocre

at arizona he facilitates the luring of players to tuscon & then pumps up their nba riches dreams...the vast majority of the wildcat players will never earn enough $ playing basketball professionally to fulfill their dreams in life

sorry, one major donor can't pick a future ncaa blacklisted coach to be the next cal hc

your suggestion is about as stooopid as recommending tosh lupaid as cal's next fb coach

4thGenCal;842301821 said:

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe..

This is depressing.

BUMP;842301829 said:

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4thGenCal;842301821 said:

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe…..

This is depressing.

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Don't despair (yet). I suspect 4thGenCal might be Pasternack's agent. Or possibly his father-in-law.

4thGenCal;842301821 said:

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe..none of the pursued established head coaches bit, in fact one coach used the interest Cal generated, as an inducement to get a raise.
Joe would bring a greatly increased recruiting prowess and we would sign the better local players immediately. Additionally it is very clear that the top donors would step up and support the basketball program is a much larger way than going forward with the current staff essentially in place.
This is not "heresay", these comments are based on discussions with the key donors and also being current with a few of the top local programs.
Not fully appreciated by this board is Pasternack's Head Coach experience and loyalty to New Orleans job he held. Joe took the job as a D1 program - lead it to the most wins achieved in over a decade and unfortunately due to Katrina, hit financial hardship and funds were reduced which had been supporting the program. The program was declassified to a D3 level, yet Pasternack honored his contract and completed his four years of leadership.
Its probably 60/40 TD amongst the Wilton/Sandy/Dirks committee, due to a perceived continuity advantage and backing of Montgomery - however please understand, Pasternack has the experience, recruiting connections and donor support to lift the Cal program to levels not seen in the past decade.

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Getting close! "Heresy" now "corrected" to "heresay." How many more generations to get it right?

BUMP;842301829 said:

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4thGenCal;842301821 said:

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe..

This is depressing.

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The correct analogy is the situation when Bruce Snyder was let go (one of the more major mistakes in history). Although Monty's retirement is not analogous, the extremely strong feelings on the part of the players and the community in favor of Mariucci IS. Also analogous was the spirit. Nobody ever wanted to be the Cal HC more than Mariucci did at that moment. Although not perfect, he was perfectly set up at that moment to grow, and the grow with the program; and I think it is more than clear that choosing the more experienced, and therefore safer, Gilbertson instead just added a third major error. At this point, Travis is much more set up to grow and grow with our program than anyone else; and his reportedly sterling personal characteristics in a lot of ways probably can't be beat. With all that he has going for him . . . . There is no celebrity out there whose negatives in choosing him over Travis would outweigh the good we know Travis brings to the table. No available celebrity would exceed the accomplishments and good will that Travis has built up at this point. What Ahmaad Rorie just said yesterday speaks volumes about recruiting value - not to mention vision, if the reports about Rorie's terrific growth as a player in the years since he committed are to be believed. I, for one, believe that Travis will be able to handle the pressure (which will be the main issue, because the next coach, whoever it is, is not going to go undefeated, and expectations are already 20-games high - assuming new bigs can replace what Solomon and Thurman, and next year Kravish, contributed - one of the major challenges, even assuming everyone stays - a pretty good assumption apparently, if Travis stays; and then, if those expectations are met, they'll just get higher, and bring more pressure. Everything I've read about Travis in particular is that he has the strength of character, spirit, desire, experience and intelligence to rise to this. Is there really a better bet at this point, in this world of imperfect humans?

It's crazy to me that there wasn't much interest for the job. I'm not against hiring an assistant, especially TD, but are you really telling me that they did a national search and absolutely no one out there has interest? That's befuddling.

tsubamoto2001;842301873 said:

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It's crazy to me that there wasn't much interest for the job. I'm not against hiring an assistant, especially TD, but are you really telling me that they did a national search and absolutely no one out there has interest? That's befuddling.

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Same thing happened last year. Do you know why coaches recruit against Cal by saying school is hard?

Bobodeluxe;842301874 said:

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Same thing happened last year. Do you know why coaches recruit against Cal by saying school is hard?

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But last year (in football) there were a BUNCH of great jobs open. A ton. It made sense that we were the runt of the litter. This year, in contrast, there has been VERY little movement at the power schools. Like Tsubo I am surprised about this.

But....c'est la vi.

What I DO hope is that the whales, Shocky and others, do step back and think about this. Not in a "well they recruit dumb azzezs and we won't so TD forever" but a serious and smart analysis. Did we cast our net widely? Did we get turned down for initials by a bunch of guys? Can we loop back around and, after the fact, get some after action reports from them.

Armed with that information what CAN CAL change? Now obviously, it can't change the "school is hard". Maybe 100% of them say that and the exercise is for naught. But maybe they say "Cal students don't respect atheletes" or "the practice facilities suck" or "I just can't stand top dog and think My guys shouldn't eat there" or maybe "you never play pre season games in the south and that needs to happen for recruiting". Some things can't be changed but Sandy OWES the program to go out and get information that can allow for some tweaks if, in the end, we really did end up with a binary choice because everyone else on the long list wouldn't give us the time of day. Improvement comes from self reflection. Only fools think they can't get better.

BUMP;842301829 said:

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4thGenCal;842301821 said:

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Its right now down to Travis and Joe..

This is depressing.

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We're a football school

socaltownie;842301894 said:

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But last year (in football) there were a BUNCH of great jobs open. A ton. It made sense that we were the runt of the litter. This year, in contrast, there has been VERY little movement at the power schools. Like Tsubo I am surprised about this.

But....c'est la vi.

What I DO hope is that the whales, Shocky and others, do step back and think about this. Not in a "well they recruit dumb azzezs and we won't so TD forever" but a serious and smart analysis. Did we cast our net widely? Did we get turned down for initials by a bunch of guys? Can we loop back around and, after the fact, get some after action reports from them.

Armed with that information what CAN CAL change? Now obviously, it can't change the "school is hard". Maybe 100% of them say that and the exercise is for naught. But maybe they say "Cal students don't respect atheletes" or "the practice facilities suck" or "I just can't stand top dog and think My guys shouldn't eat there" or maybe "you never play pre season games in the south and that needs to happen for recruiting". Some things can't be changed but Sandy OWES the program to go out and get information that can allow for some tweaks if, in the end, we really did end up with a binary choice because everyone else on the long list wouldn't give us the time of day. Improvement comes from self reflection. Only fools think they can't get better.[/QU

"School is hard" does not distinguish Cal from a number of other schools with better recruiting up 'til now.

Yep . Just given the money Monty is paid...there isn't a top assistant (good recruiter) with a top program SOMEWHERE who wants a raise??

tsubamoto2001;842301873 said:

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It's crazy to me that there wasn't much interest for the job. I'm not against hiring an assistant, especially TD, but are you really telling me that they did a national search and absolutely no one out there has interest? That's befuddling.

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Agree. Pondering the befuddlement, the concerns a potential coach might have about Cal could include...

• Working for a challenging AD
  
• Public scrutiny of being highly paid at a financially challenged (CA) institution
  
• Competing in a Pro sports focused media market
  
• Recruiting at a top academic institution
  
• Taking a stepping stone job at a place that doesn't realize it is one.
  

Now UCLA has pretty much the same concerns - but also many more banners...

:headbang

BeachedBear;842301916 said:

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Agree. Pondering the befuddlement, the concerns a potential coach might have about Cal could include...

• Working for a challenging AD
  
• Public scrutiny of being highly paid at a financially challenged (CA) institution
  
• Competing in a Pro sports focused media market
  
• Recruiting at a top academic institution
  
• Taking a stepping stone job at a place that doesn't realize it is one.
  

Now UCLA has pretty much the same concerns - but also many more banners...

:headbang

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I would add to all of these the ample anecdotal evidence, including attendance, that Cal faculty and the rest of the student body just don't have much respect for athletes, or that much interest in basketball. I would say the stepping stone factor is also large. Face it, the alumni are not going to be satisfied if the next coach can't get us over the hump we've faced and not really scaled during the Montgomery era. Assistant coaches may look at our situation, conclude they can't do better than Montgomery has done, and decide to wait for better opportunities. The reality is that to get to one of the top coaching jobs in Big 10, ACC, etc. you probably have to make at least one deep tournament run at a smaller school. Maybe the other prospects think we're just not capable institutionally of doing that. I hope they're wrong.

Agree with the befuddlement at the lack of interest (no agents calling to inquire?!! Isn't that what they get paid for?).

At this point I am hoping we hire Travis. Best story for the program (similar to "unknown" assistant Ollie succeeding "legend" Calhoun), and best upside potential at low cost/risk.

Moreover, I think a successful run by Travis would cement Montgomery's legacy at Cal. He would be seen as having started something here. Otherwise, he will be seen as a legendary Stanford coach and his time and more moderate success at Cal will be a footnote, for him and for us.

So just hire Travis and get on with it.

calumnus;842301931 said:

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Agree with the befuddlement at the lack of interest (no agents calling to inquire?!! Isn't that what they get paid for?).

At this point I am hoping we hire Travis. Best story for the program (similar to "unknown" assistant Ollie succeeding "legend" Calhoun), and best upside potential at low cost/risk.

Moreover, I think a successful run by Travis would cement Montgomery's legacy at Cal. He would be seen as having started something here. Otherwise, he will be seen as a legendary Stanford coach and his time and more moderate success at Cal will be a footnote, for him and for us.

So just hire Travis and get on with it.

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+1

drizzlyboy;842301642 said:

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Is it possible that Turner's success at getting UCI its first 20-win season in a long time has more with his ability to bring an 8-footer to the team than his coaching ability?

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Given that Turner won 20+ games the season prior without Ndiye, I think his turnaround of the program is more than just one recruit