MoragaBear;842329176 said:

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Of course everyone wants to win it all. The point is, they think they legitimately have a chance to make some serious waves here. Not just to be a good program but a great one.

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south bender;842329192 said:

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I am sure that initially Monty thought so, also.

Go Bears!

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sfbearz;842329201 said:

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it sure didn't seem like that was the case with monty. And if it was there was never even a chance of getting to that level without the willingness to recruit at a high level. Martin, yanni and webster are more than willing.

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MoragaBear;842329170 said:

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Have to keep much of this stuff on the Insider board for obvious reasons but here's a post from the other week to give you guys a general sense of what's going on with the 2015 class:

Here's a little rundown on where things stand right now with hoops recruiting.

No offers yet at PG for 2015. Recruiting Justin Robinson (MD), Paris Austin (Bishop O'Dowd), Terrence Phillips (visited last week).

SG: Brandon Sampson, Malik Beasley, Jimmy Whitt, Stevie Thompson all have offers and interest and Hanif Cheatham was offered last week. Trey Low and Serigne Athj are being recruited but don't have offers. Whitt's a combo guard but probably better at the 2.

SF: Ray Smith, Cameron Walker both offered. Walker: 2 team race with Stanford it seems but Cal has great relationship with Walker and his family. He just came off a great visit to Cal, too. Smith will be tough to pull. Tres Tinkle (no offer, probably OSU), Kaiser Gates (GA, Beasley's teammate, no offer) are others in the mix.

PF: Rabb, Boatwright both offered. Alex Illikaenen (no offer), Ed Morrow (Chicago, no offer), Elijah Thomas. Some of the guys without offers had offers from the previous staff and could get them with the current staff but Rabb's the clear priority and Boatright's #2.

C: Caleb Swanigan (recent offeree from Indiana -projected at 4 by most but Cal likes him at 5) and Chance Comanche (big priority). Josh Sharmin is being evaluated but no offer yet.

Here's the database: http://bearinsider.com/basketball/re...015&filter=all

Very good shots at officials from at least Walker, Rabb, Beasley, Sampson, Thompson, Comanche, Tinkle, Austin, Cheatham. Ray Smith might be tough to get here. Sampson, Beasley, Whitt, Thompson, Cheatham, Sharmin, Smith all were offered first at Vandy but there's good carryover at Cal.

Martin and staff feel like the previous staff did a great job coaching and with who they inherited. They especially like the frosh class.

A positive surprise is that they're happy with Rooks' mobility since recently coming back. They feel like he's going to flourish in the new S&C program with Nicodemas Christopher. Supposedly the returners, especially Bird, have a real fire and passion in their eyes and they said they'll be pushed like they've never been pushed before.

Bottom line: The new staff feels good with the situation right now, even with the thin roster. But they'll be guns blazing for this next class and are committed to working relentlessly to pump up the talent and the depth.

They said -look, we're not just here to win games and make the tourney. We want to win it all.

I get the feeling they mean it.

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SFBearz;842329201 said:

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It sure didn't seem like that was the case with Monty. And if it was there was never even a chance of getting to that level without the willingness to recruit at a high level. Martin, Yanni and Webster are more than willing.

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south bender;842329213 said:

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Monty got to the Elite 8 and the Final Four on the Farm. Do you think that he took the Cal job, thinking that that--and more--was not possible for him here?

I recall hearing early on that he thought it would be easier to get guys to Cal, as the recruiting pool was larger.

Then reality hit.

Look, I am not negative about Martin and his staff. I am quite happy with what I am seeing/hearing.

Still, the level of enthusiasm and hope that is out there right now reminds me of the old saw in baseball, that everyone is in first place during spring training.

As Cuonzo's tenure unfolds, we will in the not distant future see what happens when the rubber meets the road.

Right now, we have two new and two lost recruits. I am hoping that what has happened there is a net gain, but who actually knows? We clearly have a more energized recruiting gang, at least so far as public enthusiasm goes. We have a coach who just took Tennessee to the Sweet 16.

On the other hand, Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 in his first year. I thought that we had struck gold! Well, we know how that turned out, with Ben's last two years going twice 6 and 12 in conference.

Monty's tenure started out looking pretty promising, also.

So, with apologies to anyone that it offends, I would like to see some actual sustained results in the form of D-1 basketball played and recruits landed before becoming a prominent member of the current bandwagon.

Go Bears!

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NYCGOBEARS;842329218 said:

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You're a buzzkill bro. I had my sippy cup full to the rim with Kool Aid and then I had to go and read your realistic post.

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south bender;842329223 said:

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I got a great laugh from your post and an ensuing smile.

Thanks. Best moment of the day so far!

What would we do without humor?!

Go Bears!

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cmfan64;842329236 said:

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I think Monty was great for Cal BB. His last recruiting class led by Bird will be the basis for keeping Cal among the best teams in the PAC-12. I think Monty deserves credit for our 1st PAC-12 Championship in 50 years and making Cal a regular NCAA Tournament team. However, I see Martin as having the staff and the contacts to make Cal a threat for our first serious run to a Final Four. Let the Negabears wallow, but watch them jump on board when these predictions become reality a lot sooner that most fans think possible.:gobears:

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south bender;842329262 said:

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Not long ago I was regarded as an incorrigible and unrealistic "sunshine pumper"!

Now I'm a wallowing "Negabear"?

Help, SCT! What to do now??

Is it permissible for a Negabear to root for Cal??

Go Bears!

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south bender;842329213 said:

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Monty got to the Elite 8 and the Final Four on the Farm. Do you think that he took the Cal job, thinking that that--and more--was not possible for him here?

I recall hearing early on that he thought it would be easier to get guys to Cal, as the recruiting pool was larger.

Then reality hit.

Look, I am not negative about Martin and his staff. I am quite happy with what I am seeing/hearing.

Still, the level of enthusiasm and hope that is out there right now reminds me of the old saw in baseball, that everyone is in first place during spring training.

As Cuonzo's tenure unfolds, we will in the not distant future see what happens when the rubber meets the road.

Right now, we have two new and two lost recruits. I am hoping that what has happened there is a net gain, but who actually knows? We clearly have a more energized recruiting gang, at least so far as public enthusiasm goes. We have a coach who just took Tennessee to the Sweet 16.

On the other hand, Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 in his first year. I thought that we had struck gold! Well, we know how that turned out, with Ben's last two years going twice 6 and 12 in conference.

Monty's tenure started out looking pretty promising, also.

So, with apologies to anyone that it offends, I would like to see some actual sustained results in the form of D-1 basketball played and recruits landed before becoming a prominent member of the current bandwagon.

Go Bears!

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Vineyardview;842329281 said:

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MB "No offers yet at PG for 2015. Recruiting Justin Robinson (MD), Paris Austin (Bishop O'Dowd), Terrence Phillips (visited last week).B "

I believe this statement is incorrect. I believe 2015 PG Hyron Edwards hold an offer as do both Jimmy Whitt and Mailik Beasley. They are reputed to be recruited as combo Points. Give them a call and see if that is accurate.

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HoopDreams;842329291 said:

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It's always bothered me when a coach says something like "we will work hard to compete"

I understand that thought, but it's not very inspiring

I've seen plenty of huge upsets by teams on paper that don't belong on the same court/field.

Hate to use a stanford reference, but Harbaugh came to stanford after years of horrible seasons, and said they were going to win the Rose Bowl. He played with no fear, understanding they were underdogs, so he said we are 'going for it'. From a traditional football view, it was crazy to go for it on 4th and long, but he wanted to instill a winning attitude. He lost a couple games for making those calls, but it had an impact on his players, and probably even impressed some recruits.

I also think that being 'brutally honest' or totally 'old school' is not the way to go in modern college basketball.

So what did I think of Monty as the Cal coach? I often marveled at his coaching. One of the best X and O guys in the game, and it got us to have a very successful run including:

winning the Pac Championship
beating UCLA multiple times, including totally humiliating them in one game
Knocking off the #1 and undefeated Arizona
undefeated record vs Oregon
top 4 Pac 12 finish in EVERY Year
THREE Pac 12 POY
Most conference wins in his years of any team in the conference
Post season EVERY year
Beating Louisville and UNLV in the NCAA tournament
and a lot more...

Did I wish he could relate a little better to players and recruits, or had a little more charisma?

Yes, and I think a different attitude would have resulted in better recruiting, but in coaching, it's usually better to be respected then liked

You can't pick the best traits of one person and the best traits of another person and put them together to make the perfect coach. When considering the entire package, I think Cal was very fortunate to have Coach Montgomery.

I also like what I see with Coach Martin. Yes, so far it is mostly talk, but his players showed a lot of love for him, and he already signed top 100 guard Domingo, and apparently got the attention of Rabb and other recruits

Can he close the deal? I think the signs good, but he is starting at a disadvantage vs programs that have been on these recruits for years

What he needs is a breakout recruit

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MoragaBear;842329170 said:

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Here's the database: http://bearinsider.com/basketball/re...015&filter=all

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mikecohen;842329270 said:

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It took Monty quite a long time to build Stanford into the perennial top ten team it eventually got to - including at least one real stinker of a year (with either single digit wins or close to that). It occurs to me that Monty may have thought that, with that experience behind him, the development curve here might have been somewhat steeper; and I think that, at the same time, (a) the program improvement curve was proceeding apace, but (b) certain "cultural" (i.e., not so much having to do with basketball as with the particular culture that has come to surround it) dynamics were developing that were alien to Monty (as they well might have been to John Wooden and a others of the great, old-line coaches, like, for example, Gene Keady); and so Monty did the right thing, and set up the program to continue its salutary development under up-and-coming, and promising coaches (e.g., Travis, Greg, John, Theo) who were more akin to those trends, and who were ready to go. The only thing Monty (and the others) didn't count on was the availability of a group of coaches, basically the same as those Monty had put in place (same high character, motivation, skill, vision, plan, etc.) but already at a further stage of battle-hardened and visionary development - in other words, where Travis, Greg, John and Theo will be some years down the road. So (as others on this Board have said), especially since it looks like Travis, Greg, John and Theo will land on their feet and do very well, thank you despite the disappointment all around (as was probably well predictable), it looks from here like whatever forces that were necessary gathered to produce the administrative boldness and vision to produce an even more promising prospect going forward than the previously most optimistic of us had hoped for.

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south bender;842329213 said:

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Monty got to the Elite 8 and the Final Four on the Farm. Do you think that he took the Cal job, thinking that that--and more--was not possible for him here?

I recall hearing early on that he thought it would be easier to get guys to Cal, as the recruiting pool was larger.

Then reality hit.

Look, I am not negative about Martin and his staff. I am quite happy with what I am seeing/hearing.

Still, the level of enthusiasm and hope that is out there right now reminds me of the old saw in baseball, that everyone is in first place during spring training.

As Cuonzo's tenure unfolds, we will in the not distant future see what happens when the rubber meets the road.

Right now, we have two new and two lost recruits. I am hoping that what has happened there is a net gain, but who actually knows? We clearly have a more energized recruiting gang, at least so far as public enthusiasm goes. We have a coach who just took Tennessee to the Sweet 16.

On the other hand, Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 in his first year. I thought that we had struck gold! Well, we know how that turned out, with Ben's last two years going twice 6 and 12 in conference.

Monty's tenure started out looking pretty promising, also.

So, with apologies to anyone that it offends, I would like to see some actual sustained results in the form of D-1 basketball played and recruits landed before becoming a prominent member of the current bandwagon.

Go Bears!

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mikecohen;842329270 said:

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It took Monty quite a long time to build Stanford into the perennial top ten team it eventually got to - including at least one real stinker of a year (with either single digit wins or close to that). It occurs to me that Monty may have thought that, with that experience behind him, the development curve here might have been somewhat steeper; and I think that, at the same time, (a) the program improvement curve was proceeding apace, but (b) certain "cultural" (i.e., not so much having to do with basketball as with the particular culture that has come to surround it) dynamics were developing that were alien to Monty (as they well might have been to John Wooden and a others of the great, old-line coaches, like, for example, Gene Keady); and so Monty did the right thing, and set up the program to continue its salutary development under up-and-coming, and promising coaches (e.g., Travis, Greg, John, Theo) who were more akin to those trends, and who were ready to go. The only thing Monty (and the others) didn't count on was the availability of a group of coaches, basically the same as those Monty had put in place (same high character, motivation, skill, vision, plan, etc.) but already at a further stage of battle-hardened and visionary development - in other words, where Travis, Greg, John and Theo will be some years down the road. So (as others on this Board have said), especially since it looks like Travis, Greg, John and Theo will land on their feet and do very well, thank you despite the disappointment all around (as was probably well predictable), it looks from here like whatever forces that were necessary gathered to produce the administrative boldness and vision to produce an even more promising prospect going forward than the previously most optimistic of us had hoped for.

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HoopDreams;842329291 said:

---

It's always bothered me when a coach says something like "we will work hard to compete"

I understand that thought, but it's not very inspiring

I've seen plenty of huge upsets by teams on paper that don't belong on the same court/field.

Hate to use a stanford reference, but Harbaugh came to stanford after years of horrible seasons, and said they were going to win the Rose Bowl. He played with no fear, understanding they were underdogs, so he said we are 'going for it'. From a traditional football view, it was crazy to go for it on 4th and long, but he wanted to instill a winning attitude. He lost a couple games for making those calls, but it had an impact on his players, and probably even impressed some recruits.

I also think that being 'brutally honest' or totally 'old school' is not the way to go in modern college basketball.

So what did I think of Monty as the Cal coach? I often marveled at his coaching. One of the best X and O guys in the game, and it got us to have a very successful run including:

winning the Pac Championship
beating UCLA multiple times, including totally humiliating them in one game
Knocking off the #1 and undefeated Arizona
undefeated record vs Oregon
top 4 Pac 12 finish in EVERY Year
THREE Pac 12 POY
Most conference wins in his years of any team in the conference
Post season EVERY year
Beating Louisville and UNLV in the NCAA tournament
and a lot more...

Did I wish he could relate a little better to players and recruits, or had a little more charisma?

Yes, and I think a different attitude would have resulted in better recruiting, but in coaching, it's usually better to be respected then liked

You can't pick the best traits of one person and the best traits of another person and put them together to make the perfect coach. When considering the entire package, I think Cal was very fortunate to have Coach Montgomery.

I also like what I see with Coach Martin. Yes, so far it is mostly talk, but his players showed a lot of love for him, and he already signed top 100 guard Domingo, and apparently got the attention of Rabb and other recruits

Can he close the deal? I think the signs good, but he is starting at a disadvantage vs programs that have been on these recruits for years

What he needs is a breakout recruit

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bluesaxe;842329359 said:

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As I understand it, Domingo was pretty much on his way here before Martin.

I see what you're saying, but I don't get any more annoyed by a guy trying to keep expectations level in public than I do by a guy like Tedford talking about the goal being nothing short of national championships and then coaching more and more like a scared rabbit. My view is that it's how they deal with players that matters and the stuff they say to reporters and alums really does not. At all.

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cmfan64;842329236 said:

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I think Monty was great for Cal BB. His last recruiting class led by Bird will be the basis for keeping Cal among the best teams in the PAC-12. I think Monty deserves credit for our 1st PAC-12 Championship in 50 years and making Cal a regular NCAA Tournament team. However, I see Martin as having the staff and the contacts to make Cal a threat for our first serious run to a Final Four. Let the Negabears wallow, but watch them jump on board when these predictions become reality a lot sooner that most fans think possible.:gobears:

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south bender;842329262 said:

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Not long ago I was regarded as an incorrigible and unrealistic "sunshine pumper"!

Now I'm a wallowing "Negabear"?

Help, SCT! What to do now??

Is it permissible for a Negabear to root for Cal??

Go Bears!

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Basketball Bear;842329505 said:

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Are you having more fun as a nega bear or did you have more fun as a sunshine pumper. Sorry to hear that Ben and Monty let you down I personally enjoy both coaches and the teams they had. I thought Moraga's
news was pretty positive, I thought hiring a coach that just took a team to the Sweet 16 was pretty positive, I thought getting the coach from Vandy was pretty positive. You can't lead your life like you're waiting to be disappointed. You're right these coaches have not won a game in the pac12 but remember these kids have.

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