This is a heavy weight battle worthy of a championship game.
No way could Cal have kept up with either team.
At least I don't see it.
This is another level.

I'm hoping nova can finish it off, last 2:58
Up by 4

Archidiachino is tentative on the pull up. So are some other novas. I think Kansas has more willingness to win.
Down by 2 with 1:20

Kansas ball with 41.5.
They gonna make a shot.

Crazy refs call
Game is too intense for humans.

Talking to myself, but I still don't get it

Oh, ku foul, nova ball

Archi to the line, buries both up 4
33 secs
Ku 3 by mason.

1 PT game, nova lead.
Ku gonna have to foul
Get ball to archi!!!!

Good inbounds to archi and runs off 3 secs and gets the foul.
1-1.

Make.
...make

Layup.
Inbounds, foul to Jenkins.
Can he shoot FT's?

Yes, and yes

Ku hesitates an taking the tying 3, archi pokes ball away and nova dives on it. Wow

Mke 1 ft and game over
3.5 secs

Love it. Screw Kansas . Pompous Aholes when they came to Haas last.

That's it.
Wow

Great game. Glad I stuck around for it.

Archi smart, said on his poke,
"up by 3, once they were passing, we'll take a foul there with 5 seconds to go so I thought I'd try for the steal" and he got it without the foul.

Wasn't gonna foul initially, but once the first 3 tying shot was passed up, he changed strategy on the fly.
And we debate (MM) in timeouts, and still couldn't figure it out.

Fucking Kansas.

Go BEAST .......Go NOVA....Way to job Kansas

concordtom;842671586 said:

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This is a heavy weight battle worthy of a championship game.
No way could Cal have kept up with either team.
At least I don't see it.
This is another level.

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Cal beat or should have beaten 2 Elite 8 teams. We had a disappointing finish, but we belonged on the court with anyone.

grandmastapoop;842671669 said:

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Cal beat or should have beaten 2 Elite 8 teams. We had a disappointing finish, but we belonged on the court with anyone.

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Refs finally softened up. That makes a huge difference in style and perceived talent level, I will admit. When whistles blow, fans can't see as much action/talent. Still, I didn't see us playing like that recently.

concordtom;842671675 said:

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Refs finally softened up. That makes a huge difference in style and perceived talent level, I will admit. When whistles blow, fans can't see as much action/talent. Still, I didn't see us playing like that recently.

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Your reasoning makes little sense. Who do Kansas or Nova have that is a sure-fire pro? A lot of nice college players. We had Virginia beat on their home court, where they beat Nova handily.

Yeah, umm, I dunno.
Maybe it's the frenetic pace, the pressure D, the battles under the board.
Maybe it's the CBS March Madness music going into and out of commercial break.
Maybe it's because last time I saw us play we were missing two NBA prospects with a third playing like an imposter, and the time before that we couldn't make a single defensive stop in the post on Poeltl.

If everyone on Cal played to their best at the same time, yes, we could play with anyone. But usually that was not the case.

tsubamoto2001;842671713 said:

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Your reasoning makes little sense. Who do Kansas or Nova have that is a sure-fire pro? A lot of nice college players. We had Virginia beat on their home court, where they beat Nova handily.

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...we rarely had an offensive post presence. Rabb's points came mainly off o-boards, not jumpers in the offensive flow, or working back to basket on the block. K2 did not get hardly anything that way. Brown could post but seldom did.

Perhaps if I watched more other teams I'd see their holes more readily.

concordtom;842671715 said:

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Yeah, umm, I dunno.
Maybe it's the frenetic pace, the pressure D, the battles under the board.
Maybe it's the CBS March Madness music going into and out of commercial break.
Maybe it's because last time I saw us play we were missing two NBA prospects with a third playing like an imposter, and the time before that we couldn't make a single defensive stop in the post on Poeltl.

If everyone on Cal played to their best at the same time, yes, we could play with anyone. But usually that was not the case.

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I think both those teams are coached by two of the best coaches in the game. That's no knock on Cuonzo, but the efficiency level both teams achieved during the season is something we didn't come close to on a regular basis. I agree with your angle on the officiating--it can make a difference in watchability when the refs are sensible and don't call every little thing like it seems they do in the PAC-12.

tsubamoto2001;842671713 said:

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Your reasoning makes little sense. Who do Kansas or Nova have that is a sure-fire pro? A lot of nice college players. We had Virginia beat on their home court, where they beat Nova handily.

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Interesting point, especially about KU. Looking at current KU NBA players, Roy had more overall talent. Always assumed that their talent was roughly the same. Bruce Weber's a mediocre coach, but Self left him a loaded Illinois team that nearly went undefeated.

None of them ever have anything close to mediocre talent, but on a relative basis, Izzo and Self get more out of their talent than Calipari, Roy, and K do. Roy has by far the most talented team left in the tournament. Needs to win it all this year.

BearDevil;842671724 said:

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Interesting point, especially about KU. Looking at current KU NBA players, Roy had more overall talent. Always assumed that their talent was roughly the same. Bruce Weber's a mediocre coach, but Self left him a loaded Illinois team that nearly went undefeated.

None of them ever have anything close to mediocre talent, but on a relative basis, Izzo and Self get more out of their talent than Calipari, Roy, and K do. Roy has by far the most talented team left in the tournament. Needs to win it all this year.

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I'll give up a little talent for experience regardless of the coaching. Most of the teams remaining are led by seniors. Going into the tournament, I saw a stat that listed % of minutes played this year by returning players. Duke was something like 23% and Kansas was around 77%. I imagine most of the remaining teams are as high. Not sure what Cal was, but it wasn't particularly high given the minutes played by Rabb and Brown.

TheSouseFamily;842671728 said:

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I'll give up a little talent for experience regardless of the coaching. Most of the teams remaining are led by seniors. Going into the tournament, I saw a stat that listed % of minutes played this year by returning players. Duke was something like 23% and Kansas was around 77%. I imagine most of the remaining teams are as high. Not sure what Cal was, but it wasn't particularly high given the minutes played by Rabb and Brown.

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That would be a neat stat to see for all teams, annually.

Regarding the trade off of experience vs talent, this was MM's angle. He was apparently happy getting guys he could mold over time.

Looking at Self's record, other than his first HC job at Oral Roberts, he's almost immediately dominated every conference where he's coached (Tulsa, Illinois, KU). Can't all be recruiting or experience, he just has it even if he has won "only" one NCAA title. Only others who are close are Gregg Marshall and Brad Underwood (limited data). Shaka's been a solid tournament coach, but he didn't dominate the regular season in mid major conferences like Marshall, Self, and Underwood did.

Props to Tulsa for being ahead of the curve on Self. After Tulsa, it was obvious he was destined for greatness. Haase and Cuonzo have lofty coaching pedigrees, but they didn't have the same level of mid major conference success as Self, Marshall, and Underwood.

TheSouseFamily;842671728 said:

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I'll give up a little talent for experience regardless of the coaching. Most of the teams remaining are led by seniors. Going into the tournament, I saw a stat that listed % of minutes played this year by returning players. Duke was something like 23% and Kansas was around 77%. I imagine most of the remaining teams are as high. Not sure what Cal was, but it wasn't particularly high given the minutes played by Rabb and Brown.

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If counting only Brown and Rabb as non-returning players, then Cal was at 72%.

TheSouseFamily;842671728 said:

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I'll give up a little talent for experience regardless of the coaching. Most of the teams remaining are led by seniors. Going into the tournament, I saw a stat that listed % of minutes played this year by returning players. Duke was something like 23% and Kansas was around 77%. I imagine most of the remaining teams are as high. Not sure what Cal was, but it wasn't particularly high given the minutes played by Rabb and Brown.

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Timing really sucks for Tony Bennett. Likely gets to UVa's first F4 in 30+ years with a veteran team and has minimal leverage/options. No blueblood openings and the Wisconsin job has already been filled. He's not an NBA coach. UVa should restructure his contract to reflect a legacy coach, but timing may leave Bennett like Steph Curry or Madison Bumgarner, people at or near the top who are relatively underpaid based on timing.

BearDevil;842671724 said:

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Interesting point, especially about KU. Looking at current KU NBA players, Roy had more overall talent. Always assumed that their talent was roughly the same. Bruce Weber's a mediocre coach, but Self left him a loaded Illinois team that nearly went undefeated.

None of them ever have anything close to mediocre talent, but on a relative basis, Izzo and Self get more out of their talent than Calipari, Roy, and K do. Roy has by far the most talented team left in the tournament. Needs to win it all this year.

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Remember Roy not winning at Kansas with Drew Gooden, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Wayne Siemian, Keith Langford and Aaron Miles. Probably a tough draw.

BearDevil;842671741 said:

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Timing really sucks for Tony Bennett. Likely gets to UVa's first F4 in 30+ years with a veteran team and has minimal leverage/options. No blueblood openings and the Wisconsin job has already been filled. He's not an NBA coach. UVa should restructure his contract to reflect a legacy coach, but timing may leave Bennett like Steph Curry or Madison Bumgarner, people at or near the top who are relatively underpaid based on timing.

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I'm not convinced that Bennett would like to leave Virginia. He has a very high performing program in an attractive setting. There are coaches who don't subscribe to Oregon or Kentucky values.

tsubamoto2001;842671720 said:

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I think both those teams are coached by two of the best coaches in the game. That's no knock on Cuonzo, but the efficiency level both teams achieved during the season is something we didn't come close to on a regular basis. I agree with your angle on the officiating--it can make a difference in watchability when the refs are sensible and don't call every little thing like it seems they do in the PAC-12.

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No doubt about Wright being a great coach. But you can't talk about Nova and not mention 4 YEAR STARTERS. Or even Juniors who might have less height but have more physical presence than freshmen. Also should note: Nova played one freshman who also was highly ranked out of HS, but they didn't need him to do a lot.
Nova has guys playing at their full potential, just less NBA possibilities (though some of them will make rosters). At Cal, it was all about unbelievable potential, but wondering "where are they right now?"

SLO_Bear;842671752 said:

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I'm not convinced that Bennett would like to leave Virginia. He has a very high performing program in an attractive setting. There are coaches who don't subscribe to Oregon or Kentucky values.

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Don't disagree at all. LSJU and Georgia Tech badly bungled similar situations with Monty and Hewitt more than a decade ago and still haven't recovered. Long way to go with Cuonzo, but would be instructive to see a successful roadmap from an athletic/academic peer on how to retain a legacy coach.

Civil Bear;842671734 said:

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If counting only Brown and Rabb as non-returning players, then Cal was at 72%.

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Looks like a total of 67%.