I agree that there is room for improvement, but I want to wait and see what happens in the next games. The #'s you give include Pearl Harbor, and as I've noted all 4 teams hit under 50% in that gym. Charlie was over 85% before Honolulu. Ivan was around 70%, and Grant was near 90%. Until proven otherwise, I kind of think those numbers are more reflective than the ones from Hawaii.

The team is no where near their potential. So can they improve?
Singer - maybe
King - maybe a bit
Rabb - playing with one hand so hell yes
Moore - Holy S**t he is going to be spectacular
Bird - Just got back and is going to take a few games to get back to Hi flying Bird
Domingo and Boute - would love to say yes , but if they can just be steady we would be OK

So our 3 best players are almost certainly going to improve over the season. FT's and fg's.

concordtom;842776014 said:

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KO at 56% is also a brick layer. Let's call a horse a horse. That percentage is no good. And I guess IR is right there with him, though I'll give him a pass after his stats were pulled down following the injured hand - not sure what was up with that game.

FT's are easy enough to me. I don't understand not making them. It perplexes.
Sam should be sooooo much better at them. Senior guard. Perplexing.

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It's mental and then kinetics.
Watch Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant. Both focused, smooth and quick to release.

UrsaMajor;842774930 said:

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Also, the pain from the L hand can be distracting.

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Totally agree. Ivan said later that he chose to play without the brace or wrap in the Seton hall game, because he felt it had been affecting his shots.

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Not to make excuses, but there must have been something in the venue since Princeton (bunch of white Ivy League types) also had a poor shooting night from the line (OK, not as poor as ours, but still...), and both teams were abysmal from the field until fairly late in the game. Rafftery and Johnson both commented on the backdrop and the lighting. And, even Seton Hall struggled at the line in the 2nd game.

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The venue was a little antiquated and funky, but if there were something to it, then all the teams would likely have been affected adversely, and they weren’t. Princeton had only a slightly lower free throw percentage (65%) in the Cal game than they had for the season prior to the Cal game (68%). And Princeton shot free throws at a very nice 87% in their game vs Hawaii. I’m not sure what the shooter’s color or his league have to do with how well he shoots free throws, but our “white Ivy Leaguer”, Grant Mullins had little trouble with free throws, going 4-5 against Princeton, in his only attempts in Pearl Harbor.

In the Pearl Harbor gym, Princeton shot free throws at 75% for the two games, compared to 68% for the season prior to the tournament. Hawaii shot free throws at 70% in the tournament and 70% prior to the tournament. Seton Hall shot free throws at 47% in the tourney as compared with 65% prior, and Cal shot 44% in the tourney as compared to 68% prior.

I looked at threes, and Princeton shot them at 32% in the tourney vs 31% prior to the tourney. Hawaii shot them at 27% in the tourney vs 32% prior. Seton Hall shot them a little better at 38% in the tourney, vs 35% prior. Cal really struggled from three, shooting them at only 20% in the tourney, vs 31% prior to the tourney.

Maybe Cal recruits a higher more elite class of player who hasn’t spent a lot of time growing up playing in old funky gyms with funky rims.

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There's not much a college coach can do regarding FT shooting. Monty's stock answer about how to improve shooting: "recruit better shooters."

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You may be right, but I find it hard to believe a coach can’t teach a player to shoot better, especially an easy shot like a free throw. I learned to shoot free throws by the fifth grade, and I was damn good at it. I had to be, because in order to get chosen for a team in a schoolyard pickup game, we shot free throws. The first ten kids to make their free throw got selected to play in the game, and I wanted to play. If you missed, you went home. I see mechanical things wrong with most of our players, and with their routines. Nowadays with all the videotape we have, it should be simple for coaches and players to see their mistakes and learn from them. Perhaps easier said than done. But players with unorthodox techniques are able to shoot 75% with practice. To do better than that, to get to 90%, a player does need certain physical attributes, like a good eye, good depth perception and good eye-hand coordination. Then there is the mental side. Coach Al McGuire said he would rather have a C student take the free throw to tie or win the game at the end, than have the A student take it, because the A student will likely figure out more ways to miss it. I’m guessing that is the problem some of our players are having.

SFCityBear;842776370 said:

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Totally agree. Ivan said later that he chose to play without the brace or wrap in the Seton hall game, because he felt it had been affecting his shots.



The venue was a little antiquated and funky, but if there were something to it, then all the teams would likely have been affected adversely, and they weren't. Princeton had only a slightly lower free throw percentage (65%) in the Cal game than they had for the season prior to the Cal game (68%). And Princeton shot free throws at a very nice 87% in their game vs Hawaii. I'm not sure what the shooter's color or his league have to do with how well he shoots free throws, but our "white Ivy Leaguer", Grant Mullins had little trouble with free throws, going 4-5 against Princeton, in his only attempts in Pearl Harbor.

In the Pearl Harbor gym, Princeton shot free throws at 75% for the two games, compared to 68% for the season prior to the tournament. Hawaii shot free throws at 70% in the tournament and 70% prior to the tournament. Seton Hall shot free throws at 47% in the tourney as compared with 65% prior, and Cal shot 44% in the tourney as compared to 68% prior.

I looked at threes, and Princeton shot them at 32% in the tourney vs 31% prior to the tourney. Hawaii shot them at 27% in the tourney vs 32% prior. Seton Hall shot them a little better at 38% in the tourney, vs 35% prior. Cal really struggled from three, shooting them at only 20% in the tourney, vs 31% prior to the tourney.

Maybe Cal recruits a higher more elite class of player who hasn't spent a lot of time growing up playing in old funky gyms with funky rims.




You may be right, but I find it hard to believe a coach can't teach a player to shoot better, especially an easy shot like a free throw. I learned to shoot free throws by the fifth grade, and I was damn good at it. I had to be, because in order to get chosen for a team in a schoolyard pickup game, we shot free throws. The first ten kids to make their free throw got selected to play in the game, and I wanted to play. If you missed, you went home. I see mechanical things wrong with most of our players, and with their routines. Nowadays with all the videotape we have, it should be simple for coaches and players to see their mistakes and learn from them. Perhaps easier said than done. But players with unorthodox techniques are able to shoot 75% with practice. To do better than that, to get to 90%, a player does need certain physical attributes, like a good eye, good depth perception and good eye-hand coordination. Then there is the mental side. Coach Al McGuire said he would rather have a C student take the free throw to tie or win the game at the end, than have the A student take it, because the A student will likely figure out more ways to miss it. I'm guessing that is the problem some of our players are having.

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I wish. Are you saying less scholarly players will make more FT's?

joe yaks;842776410 said:

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I wish. Are you saying less scholarly players will make more FT's?

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Al McGuire usually found a colorful way to phrase anything. Not to be taken literally, think Yogi Berra.

The comment about "white Ivy League types" was partially tongue in cheek, although there is an element of truth. Many coaches refer to the distinction between playground basketball and driveway basketball, meaning that a lot of suburban kids spend a lot of time with hoops at their homes, shooting, while city kids tend to learn the game on the playground where there is an emphasis on ball handling and driving. Obviously, a gross generalization, but with a kernel of truth.

UrsaMajor;842776474 said:

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The comment about "white Ivy League types" was partially tongue in cheek, although there is an element of truth. Many coaches refer to the distinction between playground basketball and driveway basketball, meaning that a lot of suburban kids spend a lot of time with hoops at their homes, shooting, while city kids tend to learn the game on the playground where there is an emphasis on ball handling and driving. Obviously, a gross generalization, but with a kernel of truth.

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I understand what you meant. And I would hope that with all the traveling today to other neighborhoods and other cities which kids do for games in their school leagues and other leagues, that the suburban kids would be getting more good experience with skills needed to play the game of the inner city, and that inner city kids might also learn that time alone with a ball and a hoop can lead to the sharpening of one's pure shooting skills.

during pre-pre game warmups Singer took quite a few practice FTs
but like in games, some of his shots hit front rim, and most of his shot barely get over the rim
his shooting form and release looks good, but his shot doesn't have much arc
that's either because he doesn't use his legs enough, or he shoots out too much (instead of up)

one way to try to improve your arc is to keep your arm/hand up in the air until your shot hits the rim. It's exaggerated since you can't obviously impact the ball so long after it leaves your hand, but it's a little like a follow through in bowling

I couldn't tell if he has a 'soft touch' which is created by a backward spin which is created by how your hand releases the ball, but since his ball is so flat it's hard to imagine that he does regardless of whether his shot has a backward spin

MoragaBear;842776767 said:

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16-20 from the line tonight for 80%.

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With none attempted by Singer or Rabb...

MoragaBear;842776767 said:

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16-20 from the line tonight for 80%.

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Better.

Let us just hope the 71% plus continues. A lot of good things happen in a blow out. FTs when the pressure is on (late in a tight game, during an opposing teams run, etc) are what is more important than the actual stat per se. The team looked smooth and in sync last night for the most part. Do we have any idea of how long Rooks will be out, or if he will be back yet?

joe yaks;842776410 said:

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I wish. Are you saying less scholarly players will make more FT's?

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Al McGuire was talking about who he likes shooting free throws in clutch situations. I am not saying anything other than making a guess. When you are not making your free throws, as the season goes along, you feel more pressure, and perhaps every free throw attempt, whether it is in clutch situation or not, feels more like a clutch situation. Pressure is a big factor, as Cal shot a very nice 80% from the line last night, although it was a game at home, a blowout game against a weak opponent, with very little pressure. Nevertheless, it should build a little confidence in the minds of the players. If Cal can shoot free throws at a 75-80% clip against the better PAC12 teams, and do it on the road, you and I and everyone should be very happy.

We shot 3s better than we did FTs tonight. 9-18. We are bottom in the conference.

Very inconsistent FT shooting tonight. CP was worse.

I was watching Rabb and King shooting free throws tonight
someone said that both stood up right when shooting FTs, without bending their knees

for King, he bent his pretty far down and 'bounced' a little (a technique to shoot with your legs), but when he shot the ball, he would straighten up completely and then shoot the ball. Not exactly what the point of bending your knees is suppose to be about

Ivan on the other hand, bent down, shot using his legs, following through on his toes, with his arms up (not out). I don't see anything wrong with his form, and actually think it looks very good (at least from the side). I think he just needs reps.