I know that being a Cal fan is not easy, but I fear the basketball program has hit a new low. I am not old enough to remember coaches before Campanelli, but I cannot ever remember being this pessimistic. Perhaps the incredible speed of our downfall is the culprit. Just 13 months ago, I had great optimism that Cal was reaching a new level. We were a 4 seed going into the tournament, loaded with a record three McDonald's All-Americans, and we had an experienced and charismatic coach. Fast forward to today. We have been cursed by inopportune injuries. We barely missed the tournament because we could not close out any of tight games against top teams. Our coach ditched us the minute the season ended. The incompetent administration hired an untested assistant who would supposedly keep the team and our recruits together. The ink was barely dry on his contract when our top recruit bailed and now our most talented returning player is transferring, which leaves us with only centers who have significant playing time. We have minimal talent, no bench,and may be on the verge of a truly awful season. Seriously, how do you old time gray-bears keep the faith?

Whats better than sitting in Haas Pavillion with friends? Staying home and watching the Big Bang Theory?

Keep the faith. It wont be as bad as you think. Preseason games feature cupcakes that give us a great chance of winning.

mdbear;842832471 said:

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Our coach ditched us the minute the season ended.

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He didn't even wait that long. I sat 10 feet behind him during the Bakersfield game and everything about his body language said he was gone. Mizzou's a state school so contracts have to go up the flagpole before an offer is made. Martin was gone well before the season ended. As for being a Cal fan, yes it can be trying but I will go to as many of the games as I can next season to cheer on the guys who have chosen to wear the Blue and Gold. And who knows, Jones may yet pull a rabbit or two out of his hat.

NewYorkCityBear;842832474 said:

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He didn't even wait that long. I sat 10 feet behind him during the Bakersfield game and everything about his body language said he was gone. Mizzou's a state school so contracts have to go up the flagpole before an offer is made. Martin was gone well before the season ended. As for being a Cal fan, yes it can be trying but I will go to as many of the games as I can next season to cheer on the guys who have chosen to wear the Blue and Gold. And who knows, Jones may yet pull a rabbit or two out of his hat.

As for being a Cal fan, I'm there with you. But I will go to as many games as I can next year and cheer on the guy

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You're my proxy. I'm stuck here.

Don't worry, there will be other new lows

GB54;842832476 said:

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Don't worry, there will be other new lows

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.... and THAT'S how you cope. Just when you think it can't get worse ......

Bear fans have developed the art of denying reality to Gold Medal skill.

Being a townie, saw my first game in '64. One learns to enjoy the gut punches.

:rollinglaugh:

Thank you, Oski! May I have another?

Do you think consensus 12th is too high?

Relegation?

I thought we were happy that Martin left.

Bobodeluxe;842832495 said:

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Do you think consensus 12th is too high?

Relegation?

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UW lost just about everybody and all of their recruits. OSU's top two players surprisingly declared for the draft, but still might return. WSU? A lot of PAC12 players leaving early. It could be a down year for the conference.

CalEnviroLaw;842832497 said:

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UW lost just about everybody and all of their recruits. OSU's top two players surprisingly declared for the draft, but still might return. WSU? A lot of PAC12 players leaving early. It could be a down year for the conference.

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Relegate the bottom half?

You were here through the Braun years and this is your lowpoint?


you are overweighting Recency

cal is is going to need to start selling beer at the games

Mike Williams' handling of things has left much to be desired both in basketball and football (for specifics, see my post on Mike Williams on the Insider board).

Go Bears!

Braun had a Sweet 16 run with a very entertaining team, a first round win on a last second shot, an NIT championship, and brought in Leon Powe. I don't know what this round will bring, but when I think of low points I think of much lower than that. Let's say just about any time between 1975 and Campanelli.

rkt88edmo;842832511 said:

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You were here through the Braun years and this is your lowpoint?


you are overweighting Recency

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Well, in FB there is some positive energy, even though it will require patience. The sins of the past are not corrected with a coaching turnover alone, but there is hope; if the coaching and recruiting is stepped up as you get the feeling, things could be quite good a couple of years down the road.

Now BB is another story. New inexperienced coach, recruits have opted out, stars have moved on. We are entering a trough where it will take some time to dig out, no matter how good our new HC may be. You do need players, and we just don't have them with any depth. As depressing an outlook as I can remember, and that goes back to the late 50s.

Ok, enough whining already!
It is a family holiday weekend. Go outside, hike, have a great dinner Sun, worship if you chose, and consider yourself so fortunate to live here and to be a Cal fan.

If it is raining, play with the kids, grandkids. If it is not raining, go walk around campus....with your camera. Take fotos/not the standard stuff, but your own personal angle of all the campus landscape/buildings. Take a deep breath....and smile!

You have a ton of company, of Cal basketballl fans. Long time fans....we smile, we say GO BEARS! and we show up at Haas.

You are forgetting the large # of students, bball players, athletes or not, who have attending Cal as a dream!

I remember watching when Cal played Jerry West at the Final Four in SF/Cow Palace.

Stay home from Haas? Stop cheering/rooting for the Bears? Never!!!

Update: tks to below poster for correcting my obviously failing memory as to where Cal beat Jerry West......and who Cal played at the Final Four at the Cow Palace !!
Bunch of PEETS most mornings doesn't bring back ALL the correct memories.

I don't understand this. Are we going to go through the same-old, same-old mantra that we are going to have an awful year because we don't have five or more top-ranked recruits?

I have gotten increasingly depressed over the last three seasons. The first year of Cuonzo, I saw he had no offense, and no defense either. He did teach some defensive skills, but the team way underachieved. Monty would have done better that year. The second year, we had over-the-top optimism because of the superstar recruits. For whatever reason, they failed to play together. One of them, Brown, showcased his athleticism, and did little else. The leader, Wallace, called his own number as well. As a result the other hot recruit, Rabb, seldom got the ball. I declared the coach missing in action, in my mind, on offense at least. The defense was better, I'll give him that. The third year was more of the same. A little excitement with the point guard, but still no offensive structure, and again Rabb did not see the ball, except when he went up and got it himself off the glass. Coleman out of control. Welle gave us some good minutes, as did Jabari. But in the end, there was OK defense but no offense again. I found myself watching games just to watch Grant Mullins play. A throwback 5-tool player with little support. I was not looking forward to watching any more games in Cuonzo's career. He proved he could not coach up the lesser players, nor could he get stars to play together.

All of a sudden, Cuonzo leaves, and now I'm getting interested again. A new life, so to speak. When I look at videos of the incoming recruits, I get a little juiced. All three of these kids, Harris-Dyson, Justice Sueing, and Grant Anticevich, look like they can play a little basketball. (Videos only show offense, half of what is basketball, so keep that in mind) All three can take it to the basket, and Sueing and Anticevich can shoot mid-range jumpers and threes. All three handle the ball well, look to pass the ball, and all three look to have good anticipation on rebounds. All three look to pass the ball up the floor instead of dribble it, so maybe we can start fast breaking again, something that was missing much of the Cuonzo years. JHD can play both guard spots at least, Sueing looks like he can easily play SG and SF, and Anticevich looks like he can play any position, or at least 4 of them. Great range, mobility. If he gets a rebound, he plays point guard with the ball, and runs the offense, and he gets a lot of assists.

Of the returning players, I expect Okoroh to be even better this season, and I like that he did not follow Cuonzo to Missouri. I think it might show which coach he prefers, which one has helped him the most to develop. I look forward to seeing Lee play, on a team where he will have a lot of responsibility. I look forward to seeing if Coleman can play more within himself. I like his aggressiveness on offense and defense. I expect that Welle will improve some, and will be a contributor. He was a kid who was thrilled just to make this team, and now he has a real shot to contribute. If this is the roster, with no additions, then kids like Davis, Chauca, Hamilton, Koko, and King also may contribute. They are all working to improve, so I'm looking forward to this season, for the first time in nearly two years.

The question mark for me is can Jones coach? That will be the key to any success we have this season. With no real stars other than perhaps Lee, the coach might be able to teach these kids some real teamwork, and open up the floor, which has been clogged for three years. Jones obviously can teach the big guys, so who will coach the guards, especially the point guards? I'm looking forward to finding all this out.

So let's not drown ourselves in sorrow and pity. Go out and enjoy this season for what it is. We are rebuilding with a new coach. And if it doesn't turn out well, just remember that both Newell and Montgomery started out with supposedly better talent and did not have great first years. Newell had a losing season, but went on to win 4 conference titles and an NCAA title. Hope springs eternal.

oskigobears;842832655 said:

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Ok, enough whining already!
It is a family holiday weekend. Go outside, hike, have a great dinner Sun, worship if you chose, and consider yourself so fortunate to live here and to be a Cal fan.

If it is raining, play with the kids, grandkids. If it is not raining, go walk around campus....with your camera. Take fotos/not the standard stuff, but your own personal angle of all the campus landscape/buildings. Take a deep breath....and smile!

You have a ton of company, of Cal basketballl fans. Long time fans....we smile, we say GO BEARS! and we show up at Haas.

You are forgetting the large # of students, bball players, athletes or not, who have attending Cal as a dream!

I remember watching when Cal played Jerry West at the Final Four in SF/Cow Palace.

Stay home from Haas? Stop cheering/rooting for the Bears? Never!!!

---

At the Final Four in SF/Cow Palace, Cal's opponents were Cincinnati in the semis and Ohio State in the finals. Cal defeated the great Jerry West's team,West Virginia, the previous year in Louisville. Was there another Jerry West at the Cow Palace?

SFCityBear;842832691 said:

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I don't understand this. Are we going to go through the same-old, same-old mantra that we are going to have an awful year because we don't have five or more top-ranked recruits?

I have gotten increasingly depressed over the last three seasons. The first year of Cuonzo, I saw he had no offense, and no defense either. He did teach some defensive skills, but the team way underachieved. Monty would have done better that year. The second year, we had over-the-top optimism because of the superstar recruits. For whatever reason, they failed to play together. One of them, Brown, showcased his athleticism, and did little else. The leader, Wallace, called his own number as well. As a result the other hot recruit, Rabb, seldom got the ball. I declared the coach missing in action, in my mind, on offense at least. The defense was better, I'll give him that. The third year was more of the same. A little excitement with the point guard, but still no offensive structure, and again Rabb did not see the ball, except when he went up and got it himself off the glass. Coleman out of control. Welle gave us some good minutes, as did Jabari. But in the end, there was OK defense but no offense again. I found myself watching games just to watch Grant Mullins play. A throwback 5-tool player with little support. I was not looking forward to watching any more games in Cuonzo's career. He proved he could not coach up the lesser players, nor could he get stars to play together.

All of a sudden, Cuonzo leaves, and now I'm getting interested again. A new life, so to speak. When I look at videos of the incoming recruits, I get a little juiced. All three of these kids, Harris-Dyson, Justice Sueing, and Grant Anticevich, look like they can play a little basketball. (Videos only show offense, half of what is basketball, so keep that in mind) All three can take it to the basket, and Sueing and Anticevich can shoot mid-range jumpers and threes. All three handle the ball well, look to pass the ball, and all three look to have good anticipation on rebounds. All three look to pass the ball up the floor instead of dribble it, so maybe we can start fast breaking again, something that was missing much of the Cuonzo years. JHD can play both guard spots at least, Sueing looks like he can easily play SG and SF, and Anticevich looks like he can play any position, or at least 4 of them. Great range, mobility. If he gets a rebound, he plays point guard with the ball, and runs the offense, and he gets a lot of assists.

Of the returning players, I expect Okoroh to be even better this season, and I like that he did not follow Cuonzo to Missouri. I think it might show which coach he prefers, which one has helped him the most to develop. I look forward to seeing Lee play, on a team where he will have a lot of responsibility. I look forward to seeing if Coleman can play more within himself. I like his aggressiveness on offense and defense. I expect that Welle will improve some, and will be a contributor. He was a kid who was thrilled just to make this team, and now he has a real shot to contribute. If this is the roster, with no additions, then kids like Davis, Chauca, Hamilton, Koko, and King also may contribute. They are all working to improve, so I'm looking forward to this season, for the first time in nearly two years.

The question mark for me is can Jones coach? That will be the key to any success we have this season. With no real stars other than perhaps Lee, the coach might be able to teach these kids some real teamwork, and open up the floor, which has been clogged for three years. Jones obviously can teach the big guys, so who will coach the guards, especially the point guards? I'm looking forward to finding all this out.

So let's not drown ourselves in sorrow and pity. Go out and enjoy this season for what it is. We are rebuilding with a new coach. And if it doesn't turn out well, just remember that both Newell and Montgomery started out with supposedly better talent and did not have great first years. Newell had a losing season, but went on to win 4 conference titles and an NCAA title. Hope springs eternal.

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I wish Wyking replaced Cuonzo a year earlier and possibly we kept Matthews. all three years under Cuonzo our team underachieved ...

bluesaxe;842832531 said:

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I don't know what this round will bring, but when I think of low points I think of much lower than that. Let's say just about any time between 1975 and Campanelli.

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The difference now is that every single game is televised. So you'll have to actively resist watching Cal losing a whole lot of games. I mean, can you imagine what it would be like growing up a Washington Generals fans if they had a TV deal???

You'll take it and alot more!

"We're not gonna take it
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you, better still"

Pete Townshend thanks you...

GB54;842832714 said:

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"We're not gonna take it
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you, better still"

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And what happens if Jones puts it together:

Listening to you, I get the music
Gazing at you, I get the heat
Following you, I climb the mountain
I get excitement at your feet
Right behind you, I see the millions
On you, I see the glory
From you, I get opinions
From you, I get the story

He's obviously a fan of the Who catalog...

petalumabear;842832752 said:

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He's obviously a fan of the Who catalog...

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More optimistic than Bob Dylan:

Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well-read, it's well-known
But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

SFCityBear;842832691 said:

---

I don't understand this. Are we going to go through the same-old, same-old mantra that we are going to have an awful year because we don't have five or more top-ranked recruits?

I have gotten increasingly depressed over the last three seasons. The first year of Cuonzo, I saw he had no offense, and no defense either. He did teach some defensive skills, but the team way underachieved. Monty would have done better that year. The second year, we had over-the-top optimism because of the superstar recruits. For whatever reason, they failed to play together. One of them, Brown, showcased his athleticism, and did little else. The leader, Wallace, called his own number as well. As a result the other hot recruit, Rabb, seldom got the ball. I declared the coach missing in action, in my mind, on offense at least. The defense was better, I'll give him that. The third year was more of the same. A little excitement with the point guard, but still no offensive structure, and again Rabb did not see the ball, except when he went up and got it himself off the glass. Coleman out of control. Welle gave us some good minutes, as did Jabari. But in the end, there was OK defense but no offense again. I found myself watching games just to watch Grant Mullins play. A throwback 5-tool player with little support. I was not looking forward to watching any more games in Cuonzo's career. He proved he could not coach up the lesser players, nor could he get stars to play together.

All of a sudden, Cuonzo leaves, and now I'm getting interested again. A new life, so to speak. When I look at videos of the incoming recruits, I get a little juiced. All three of these kids, Harris-Dyson, Justice Sueing, and Grant Anticevich, look like they can play a little basketball. (Videos only show offense, half of what is basketball, so keep that in mind) All three can take it to the basket, and Sueing and Anticevich can shoot mid-range jumpers and threes. All three handle the ball well, look to pass the ball, and all three look to have good anticipation on rebounds. All three look to pass the ball up the floor instead of dribble it, so maybe we can start fast breaking again, something that was missing much of the Cuonzo years. JHD can play both guard spots at least, Sueing looks like he can easily play SG and SF, and Anticevich looks like he can play any position, or at least 4 of them. Great range, mobility. If he gets a rebound, he plays point guard with the ball, and runs the offense, and he gets a lot of assists.

Of the returning players, I expect Okoroh to be even better this season, and I like that he did not follow Cuonzo to Missouri. I think it might show which coach he prefers, which one has helped him the most to develop. I look forward to seeing Lee play, on a team where he will have a lot of responsibility. I look forward to seeing if Coleman can play more within himself. I like his aggressiveness on offense and defense. I expect that Welle will improve some, and will be a contributor. He was a kid who was thrilled just to make this team, and now he has a real shot to contribute. If this is the roster, with no additions, then kids like Davis, Chauca, Hamilton, Koko, and King also may contribute. They are all working to improve, so I'm looking forward to this season, for the first time in nearly two years.

The question mark for me is can Jones coach? That will be the key to any success we have this season. With no real stars other than perhaps Lee, the coach might be able to teach these kids some real teamwork, and open up the floor, which has been clogged for three years. Jones obviously can teach the big guys, so who will coach the guards, especially the point guards? I'm looking forward to finding all this out.

So let's not drown ourselves in sorrow and pity. Go out and enjoy this season for what it is. We are rebuilding with a new coach. And if it doesn't turn out well, just remember that both Newell and Montgomery started out with supposedly better talent and did not have great first years. Newell had a losing season, but went on to win 4 conference titles and an NCAA title. Hope springs eternal.

---

Here here, SFCB! Cuonzo was a completely crappy coach on the offensive end, and while I liked a lot of the players, individually, they did not play a very watchable form of basketball. We are better rid of him. Let the rebuilding begin.

Bobodeluxe;842832495 said:

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Do you think consensus 12th is too high?

Relegation?

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In the country?

I like your optimism, SFCity, and for the most part I agree with your assessment of Cuonzo, although I think you have to admit his defense was better than OK (#1 in the Pac-12 by most metrics, and top-20 nationally in every metric). Let's give the devil his due.

My only hesitation with your assessment is that I don't believe you can really judge high school players by highlight films. I also don't believe that either Antecevich, H-D, or Seuing is fit to play the point. That leaves essentially Chauca and Coleman. Chauca is physically limited no matter how hard he practices, and Coleman has a lot to learn. Maybe Jones can cover these flaws with a pure motion offense, we will see.

I'm fine with rebuilding, I just don't have a lot of hope for 2017-2018. Good coaching is imperative, but you still need talent.

you cant hide chauca and coleman at point. they got to find a JC pg, grad transfer or steal one committed to a midmajor school

UrsaMajor;842832807 said:

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I'm fine with rebuilding, I just don't have a lot of hope for 2017-2018. Good coaching is imperative, but you still need talent.

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+1000

mdbear;842832471 said:

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I know that being a Cal fan is not easy, but I fear the basketball program has hit a new low. I am not old enough to remember coaches before Campanelli, but I cannot ever remember being this pessimistic. Perhaps the incredible speed of our downfall is the culprit. Just 13 months ago, I had great optimism that Cal was reaching a new level. We were a 4 seed going into the tournament, loaded with a record three McDonald's All-Americans, and we had an experienced and charismatic coach. Fast forward to today. We have been cursed by inopportune injuries. We barely missed the tournament because we could not close out any of tight games against top teams. Our coach ditched us the minute the season ended. The incompetent administration hired an untested assistant who would supposedly keep the team and our recruits together. The ink was barely dry on his contract when our top recruit bailed and now our most talented returning player is transferring, which leaves us with only centers who have significant playing time. We have minimal talent, no bench,and may be on the verge of a truly awful season. Seriously, how do you old time gray-bears keep the faith?

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Hang in there. If you go 50 years you'll get tenure.

Bearprof;842832761 said:

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Here here, SFCB! Cuonzo was a completely crappy coach on the offensive end, and while I liked a lot of the players, individually, they did not play a very watchable form of basketball. We are better rid of him. Let the rebuilding begin.

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Agree. Nice post, SFCity. Cuonzo did us a favor, leaving when he did. I don't resent the way he left, as many here seem to, but he wasn't that good a coach. And while he could bag some top recruits, he couldn't recruit to wisely shape a roster.

I also agree on Anticevich. I'm also wary of making an evaluation via a highlight video, but he obviously has a well-rounded game and a high hoops IQ.

If I were Jones right now, I'd be checking to see if Trevin Knell is absolutely, 100% sure that he wants to take his mission right now. Worth a try.