UrsaMajor said:

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My issue is people complaining about things they can affect. We have ****ty facilities because of a lack of funds. Some complain about it; others do something (like contributing).

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Cool, so only millionaires get to come on BI and complain about most stuff. Very Cal like.

Keep in mind, I wasn't even complaining, rather I included that as part of the reason for why, imo, Wyking is not set up for success. With this attitude around the University, I'm just shocked that the University has trouble growing the donor base. Shocked.

OK. Fair enough; and I didn't mean to imply what I realize it sounds like. Sorry. I just get tired of the "Cal sucks at this, Cal sucks at that" that I hear on BI so much. Before the Legends Aquatic Center was built, Teri McKeever and Dave Durden used that fact that Spieker was very inferior to Stanford and USC in terms of facilities as a recruiting point, comparing Cal to "country club" schools. They came up with the slogan" "Blue collar; gold medals." I guess it worked...to the tune of 6 national championships between them in 7 years.

I'm not saying that approach would work in basketball (I'm pretty sure it wouldn't), but there are ways around it.

UrsaMajor said:

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I just get tired of the "Cal sucks at this, Cal sucks at that" that I hear on BI so much.

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yes, lots of issues with the team, program, etc. so those who want to complain about that has lots of fuel
but I agree with you, it gets tiresome hearing it all the time

HoopDreams said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I just get tired of the "Cal sucks at this, Cal sucks at that" that I hear on BI so much.

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yes, lots of issues with the team, program, etc. so those who want to complain about that has lots of fuel
but I agree with you, it gets tiresome hearing it all the time

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Well, get ready to be tired of hearing it tonight.

Yogi Bear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I just get tired of the "Cal sucks at this, Cal sucks at that" that I hear on BI so much.

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yes, lots of issues with the team, program, etc. so those who want to complain about that has lots of fuel
but I agree with you, it gets tiresome hearing it all the time

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Well, get ready to be tired of hearing it tonight.

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LOL.

Yogi Bear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I just get tired of the "Cal sucks at this, Cal sucks at that" that I hear on BI so much.

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yes, lots of issues with the team, program, etc. so those who want to complain about that has lots of fuel
but I agree with you, it gets tiresome hearing it all the time

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Well, get ready to be tired of hearing it tonight.

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Thank you, Karnak

BearGoggles said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I just get tired of the "Cal sucks at this, Cal sucks at that" that I hear on BI so much.

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yes, lots of issues with the team, program, etc. so those who want to complain about that has lots of fuel
but I agree with you, it gets tiresome hearing it all the time

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Well, get ready to be tired of hearing it tonight.

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LOL.

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Indeed. LOL at me.

socaliganbear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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socaliganbear said:

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You think we should be able to sell wins from 50 years ago to recruits. We're clearly not going to agree on much. I'm fine with that.

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Well, UCLA recriuiting lived off and still is living off the record of the Wooden years. How did another guy who can't coach very well, Lorenzo Romar, land all those recruits at UW, with very little tradition to sell? Or how does Dana Altman land all his with no real tradition to sell? (Some say he can coach well, but Montgomery beat him like a drum for 6 years with less talent.)

How about just selling from 20 years ago, you know Jason Kidd's '93 SW16 team or Braun's '97 SW16 team?
Or from 7 years ago, Monty's PAC12 Championship team?

Quote:

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I wonder if Wilcox is using our Wonder Team years as a secret weapon in recruiting. Man, as soon as he does, we're gonna clean up.

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Like I said, you can sell a young recruit just about ANYTHING, if you are a salesman. Cuonzo Martin did it. Did he use Cal Tradition as a selling point? Or facilities? Certainly not coaching. So how in the world did he land Brown and Rabb?

I think your first point about how Cal looks when playing, and if they can get some good wins, may be influential, but not so much tradition or facilities, IMO.

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I'm not even sure what you're arguing. Yes, good recruiters recruit well. Romar was an amazing recruiter. UCLA has had great recruiters and plenty more wins since Wooden to recruit from. Dana Atlman is a great recruiter. I never argued against this. Again, good recruiters recruit well. This is not new information or information that I challenged.

My larger point is that, as a program, you have to offer something. We currently don't offer much beyond hope that Wyking is a good coach and that if the year ends poorly, that hope becomes less so, at which point we're left with not much at all.

The Cuonzo-Brown/Ivan recruitment is not a sustainable model. It's highly unlikely that we'll have many years with a 5* recruit who grew up on Cal basketball in our backyard, in the same class as a 5* pseudo intellectual who is family friends with one of our all time greats. Chess playing, aristotle Aristotle quoting 5* freaks are a bit hard to come by.

You're also making my point, as all the programs you mentioned have better facilities than we do or tradition or both.

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"Pseudo intellectual"

What the f-ck is wrong with you? I'm not calling you racist, but I am telling you what you said there comes off very racist.

GMP said:

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socaliganbear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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socaliganbear said:

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You think we should be able to sell wins from 50 years ago to recruits. We're clearly not going to agree on much. I'm fine with that.

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Well, UCLA recriuiting lived off and still is living off the record of the Wooden years. How did another guy who can't coach very well, Lorenzo Romar, land all those recruits at UW, with very little tradition to sell? Or how does Dana Altman land all his with no real tradition to sell? (Some say he can coach well, but Montgomery beat him like a drum for 6 years with less talent.)

How about just selling from 20 years ago, you know Jason Kidd's '93 SW16 team or Braun's '97 SW16 team?
Or from 7 years ago, Monty's PAC12 Championship team?

Quote:

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I wonder if Wilcox is using our Wonder Team years as a secret weapon in recruiting. Man, as soon as he does, we're gonna clean up.

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Like I said, you can sell a young recruit just about ANYTHING, if you are a salesman. Cuonzo Martin did it. Did he use Cal Tradition as a selling point? Or facilities? Certainly not coaching. So how in the world did he land Brown and Rabb?

I think your first point about how Cal looks when playing, and if they can get some good wins, may be influential, but not so much tradition or facilities, IMO.

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I'm not even sure what you're arguing. Yes, good recruiters recruit well. Romar was an amazing recruiter. UCLA has had great recruiters and plenty more wins since Wooden to recruit from. Dana Atlman is a great recruiter. I never argued against this. Again, good recruiters recruit well. This is not new information or information that I challenged.

My larger point is that, as a program, you have to offer something. We currently don't offer much beyond hope that Wyking is a good coach and that if the year ends poorly, that hope becomes less so, at which point we're left with not much at all.

The Cuonzo-Brown/Ivan recruitment is not a sustainable model. It's highly unlikely that we'll have many years with a 5* recruit who grew up on Cal basketball in our backyard, in the same class as a 5* pseudo intellectual who is family friends with one of our all time greats. Chess playing, aristotle Aristotle quoting 5* freaks are a bit hard to come by.

You're also making my point, as all the programs you mentioned have better facilities than we do or tradition or both.

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"Pseudo intellectual"

What the f-ck is wrong with you? I'm not calling you racist, but I am telling you what you said there comes off very racist.

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Well, I don't know him personally, but I do know he posts pictures of himself playing chess in Berkeley sweaters. Similarly, he's used philosophical quotes in press conferences and attributed them to the wrong philosopher. So at the very least, it's an image he's trying to cultivate.

It's like posting a workout pic of yourself.

Posting workout pics of oneself reminded me of the guy found at 2 minutes of this video--but be sure and watch the rest of the vid also (and Part 1 of this series, since this is Part 2)--makes me cry laughing every time: