Don Coleman Gone

31,689 Views | 158 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by oskidunker
mikecohen
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Bear8995 said:

Early in the season there was a fast break where DC had the ball and another player was running ahead of him on the opposite side of the floor. A 2 on 1. DC took the ball in himself instead of passing the ball.

Later in the season, the roles were reversed. McNeill had the ball on a 2 on 1 and DC was the other player. McNeill kept the ball and took it himself.

In both cases, it made more sense to pass it to the player up ahead for an easy layup.

Both plays were selfish. I believe that those kinds of plays define the team. Are they going to share the ball? Or play hero ball?

I wish DC the best but he played hero ball and wasn't good enough to pull it off. Yes, he made some nice assists and passes every once in a while. But he was supposed to be one of the leaders of the team and that attitude reflected in how the team played. And it showed in our assist numbers.
Just to repeat, in summary fashion, what SF City said above, but more focused on DC.

There are coaches, and systems, and teams (on numerous levels) that could not only eliminate the conduct you criticize, but set up the floor in such a way that DC's game could really consistently produce even startling results; and I hope he can find that in whatever next steps are there for him - - - and I hasten to say that this not happening for him at Cal is not entirely the fault of the coaching staff.

What I have in mind is last season's extraordinary lack of experience in the back court, combined with a front court which consisted of a non-athletic, un-skilled (except for shot blocking) 7-footer, and a guy with all the talent in the world, who had the misfortune of winding up in two places where, during four years in which he could have developed major league skills, let's just say that his training was clearly neglected.

I certainly believe that Marcus Lee should be able to find a coach and a team that would give him the training and the application of his intelligence to the court that will allow an NBA team to take advantage of his extraordinary gifts.

I should add (somewhat non-sequiturally) that my one outstanding question about the coaching staff is the still unexplained Elephant in the room of Theo's SUDDEN separation from the team, and the consequent loss of everything he brought to the table, without anything in his past to suggest him causing such a radically negative occurrence.
bearister
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I think Marcus can play in the NBA.
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iwantwinners
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bearister said:

I think Marcus can play in the NBA.
Really?
Bear8995
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mikecohen said:


I should add (somewhat non-sequiturally) that my one outstanding question about the coaching staff is the still unexplained Elephant in the room of Theo's SUDDEN separation from the team, and the consequent loss of everything he brought to the table, without anything in his past to suggest him causing such a radically negative occurrence.
Theo's departure was covered in chat. It wasn't sudden (had been building for a while) and Theo wasn't bringing much to the table at the time of his departure. Bad fit from the start. I applaud both sides for taking the high road by not commenting further.
iwantwinners
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Bear8995 said:

mikecohen said:


I should add (somewhat non-sequiturally) that my one outstanding question about the coaching staff is the still unexplained Elephant in the room of Theo's SUDDEN separation from the team, and the consequent loss of everything he brought to the table, without anything in his past to suggest him causing such a radically negative occurrence.
Theo's departure was covered in chat. It wasn't sudden (had been building for a while) and Theo wasn't bringing much to the table at the time of his departure. Bad fit from the start. I applaud both sides for taking the high road by not commenting further.
Why'd he leave in November, why was he not contributing much when he was here, and why did his leave become permanent
Bear8995
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iwantwinners said:

Bear8995 said:

mikecohen said:


I should add (somewhat non-sequiturally) that my one outstanding question about the coaching staff is the still unexplained Elephant in the room of Theo's SUDDEN separation from the team, and the consequent loss of everything he brought to the table, without anything in his past to suggest him causing such a radically negative occurrence.
Theo's departure was covered in chat. It wasn't sudden (had been building for a while) and Theo wasn't bringing much to the table at the time of his departure. Bad fit from the start. I applaud both sides for taking the high road by not commenting further.
Why'd he leave in November, why was he not contributing much when he was here, and why did his leave become permanent
You can ask the mods those questions and if they feel like sharing they will.
tequila4kapp
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EricBear said:

Probably best for all involved.

Wish him the best.
My sentiments exactly
tequila4kapp
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SFCityBear said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

socaliganbear said:

Who's next?

McCullough and Winston?
And let's not forget Anticevich.

Think about it. When you have this many players who either started or played more minutes in the early season and then got sent to the bench or were given far less or even no minutes of playing time, what does that say about a coach's ability to judge who his best players are?

Coach Jones needs to take the off season and concentrate on getting his learning curve on to a fast track, or he is toast. When you elevate a player to the position of "our go-to guy" on offense, and early on he is producing 30 point games, and in conference, the player gets benched for the rest of the season, playing less minutes, that is a blow to the player's ego. It was to his great credit that Coleman did not sulk and played hard, unlike many players might have done. Deschon Winston started the season at point guard with McNeill hurt, but when McNeill took over Winston not only went to the bench, he almost disappeared. Anticevich and McCullogh played minutes early, and Anticevich looked pretty good in spots. Both seldom played after that, with the exception of Anticievich hitting a key three to help beat Stanford. If McCullogh, Winston, and Anticevich were older players, I'm sure their egos would be bruised, but as freshman, they probably did not expect to play much. Still no player likes to move from good minutes to nearly no minutes. Jones needs to learn to evaluate his players better, and handle them better if he wants to keep them.
Or maybe it means people lost the right to have minutes and coach held them accountable. Or maybe it means other people passed those guys as the season went on. There are a million things it could be.

It seems like there's a sentiment to always see the glass half empty with this staff. It may well have been way worse if the staff blindly stuck with the initial guys who got minutes
iwantwinners
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Bear8995 said:

iwantwinners said:

Bear8995 said:

mikecohen said:


I should add (somewhat non-sequiturally) that my one outstanding question about the coaching staff is the still unexplained Elephant in the room of Theo's SUDDEN separation from the team, and the consequent loss of everything he brought to the table, without anything in his past to suggest him causing such a radically negative occurrence.
Theo's departure was covered in chat. It wasn't sudden (had been building for a while) and Theo wasn't bringing much to the table at the time of his departure. Bad fit from the start. I applaud both sides for taking the high road by not commenting further.
Why'd he leave in November, why was he not contributing much when he was here, and why did his leave become permanent
You can ask the mods those questions and if they feel like sharing they will.
Was it due to conflict with the school/coaching staff/players or personal matters. If it's the former, I'm not sure why it's confidential.
calgo430
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don coleman could not hit a three. sorry to see him go but he is not what we need for 18-19.
mikecohen
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tequila4kapp said:

EricBear said:

Probably best for all involved.

Wish him the best.
My sentiments exactly
Anyone know what he's doing now?
HoopDreams
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Don Coleman is a warrior. Martin wanted 'tougher' players so he went into the territory that he knew best and found that type of player... and that's exactly what we got.

Coleman was at his best when he attacked the basket. Coleman was at his worst when he attacked the basket.

He won us some games, and he lost us some games.

I was probably one of his biggest fans on this board, but I can see why he wasn't received well by many. Just a hard player to love.

In his first year, I was shocked by a couple of games he had. The most memorable was against UCLA. At one point, everyone on the planet knew he was going to take it hard to the rack, but no one on the entire UCLA team could do anything about it. He not only drove and got to the basket, but he finished in circus style multiple times over set defenders. One of the craziest performances I've ever seen. Because of Coleman we almost pulled an upset over the Lorenzo Ball lead UCLA.

He followed up with a couple more spectacular games, but an injury knocked him off the track. He was able to return and put up big numbers in the NIT game.

Then this year he jumped out of the gate with some huge games, including the Wichita State game. However once he got in conference, teams were bigger, longer, more athletic, and better prepared. He was relatively easy to game plan for and some teams completely shut him down. However, he wasn't able to change his game enough and so he became mostly ineffective.

Coleman gave us two years, and we were better because of him. I liked his aggressive attitude, attacking the basket, picking the pocket of players, diving on the floor, creating havoc. He also made some impressive passes (surprising me) and he was clutch at the line in tight games.

Don "No Fear" Coleman. Good luck to you.
stu
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Eloquent post, HD.
concordtom
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oskidunker said:

Thats because he took a ton of shots. 34% field goals for two' s is not good. 23% from three is terrible. Also he had alot of techicals for tripping players etc . He was suspended for one of these i dont feel he was a good representative of Cal. I dont think the coach felt so either.

But wish him well? Sure. Why not.
Is that why he didn't make that one road trip??
concordtom
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That ucla game last year was incredible!
He had hardly played at all on the year, and then in he comes and scores 14-17 (?) points in the last 10 minutes? Some of those shots belong in the Cal circus shots hall of fame.
concordtom
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Anyone else here wanna join me in thinking the rudeness toward him here would be much less if he didn't have all those garish tattoos?
sheki
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Tattoos don't have anything to do with his final two games at Cal.

1 for 20 shooting. That is not a typo. But at least he had heart.
bearister
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concordtom said:

Anyone else here wanna join me in thinking the rudeness toward him here would be much less if he didn't have all those garish tattoos?


Hey, enough of that. Viggo Mortesen had lots of tats in Eastern Promises and that is one of the coolest characters in movie history.

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iwantwinners
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Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
iwantwinners
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sheki said:

Tattoos don't have anything to do with his final two games at Cal.

1 for 20 shooting. That is not a typo. But at least he had heart.

I don't get permanently scarring your body. Strange. But bad basketball bothers me way more.
tsubamoto2001
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Lots of people have tats these days. My issue was I didn't like his style of play.

concordtom said:

Anyone else here wanna join me in thinking the rudeness toward him here would be much less if he didn't have all those garish tattoos?

PtownBear1
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I think DC would have brought a nice spark of energy and experience off the bench next year. I don't see his departure as a positive and would definitely have preferred he stay over a few other players that seem very unlikely to materially contribute.
GMP
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iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Rabb played two years. The same as Powe.
Big C
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GMP said:

iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Rabb played two years. The same as Powe.
same as Anderson, too

(geez, I woulda loved to have seen Ryan Anderson on Monty's first two Cal teams...)
bearister
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GMP said:

iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Rabb played two years. The same as Powe.

Rabb cost himself millions subjecting himself to a second year of clueless offensive coaching. His draft status dropped faster than a whale dump.
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Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
parentswerebears
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bearister said:

GMP said:

iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Rabb played two years. The same as Powe.

Rabb cost himself millions subjecting himself to a second year of clueless offensive coaching. His draft status dropped faster than a whale dump.
How fast is a whale dump? Seems like there would be a lot of drag due to the water.
MoragaBear
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Staff
iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Moore and Bradley were higher rated recruits than Randle and Anderson. Gordon's comparable to Lampley in ratings. Brown and Rabb were comparably rated to Powe. Brown would be right there with Powe if they get him and Akinjo would be higher rated than Randle, too.
Econ141
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iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...


Cal did nothing with this talent - the California kids are seeing this and avoiding the school. Imagine if you're looking up to Ivan Rabb and follow his career at Cal? Yikes.

This is why Id like us to focus on 3 star players that by the time they are juniors/seniors they are very good. Then you add a one and done when he is ina much better position to succeed.

No way we get Jordan brown or this ajinko kid.
oskidunker
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I would agree with you but who knows what really motivates these kids. If they cone then we can attribute it to maybe three things. They love the coach. They know they will play alot and for some the desire to play close ti home.
parentswerebears
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MoragaBear said:

iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Moore and Bradley were higher rated recruits than Randle and Anderson. Gordon's comparable to Lampley in ratings. Brown and Rabb were comparably rated to Powe. Brown would be right there with Powe if they get him and Akinjo would be higher rated than Randle, too.
But, you know, the coaching staff right now is trash, so that just automatically lowers everyone's ratings.
socaliganbear
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Maybe Don didn't read this thread? https://bearinsider.com/forums/3/topics/78731
mikecohen
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oskidunker said:

I would agree with you but who knows what really motivates these kids. If they cone then we can attribute it to maybe three things. They love the coach. They know they will play alot and for some the desire to play close ti home.
You know: There is also, in some cases, the idea that a Cal education is worth something, even if it is interrupted by pro BBall
bearister
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parentswerebears said:

bearister said:

GMP said:

iwantwinners said:

Cal hasn't recruited squat since Monty's back half. Cuonzo got two one and done national players. That's it.

What happened to the days of snagging Powes, Randles, Andersons, Lampleys...
Rabb played two years. The same as Powe.

Rabb cost himself millions subjecting himself to a second year of clueless offensive coaching. His draft status dropped faster than a whale dump.
How fast is a whale dump? Seems like there would be a lot of drag due to the water.


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
LOUMFSG2
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As SFCityBear said in a different thread, I think I learn something new every time I log into the Bear Insider Forums
SFCityBear
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tequila4kapp said:

SFCityBear said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

socaliganbear said:

Who's next?

McCullough and Winston?
And let's not forget Anticevich.

Think about it. When you have this many players who either started or played more minutes in the early season and then got sent to the bench or were given far less or even no minutes of playing time, what does that say about a coach's ability to judge who his best players are?

Coach Jones needs to take the off season and concentrate on getting his learning curve on to a fast track, or he is toast. When you elevate a player to the position of "our go-to guy" on offense, and early on he is producing 30 point games, and in conference, the player gets benched for the rest of the season, playing less minutes, that is a blow to the player's ego. It was to his great credit that Coleman did not sulk and played hard, unlike many players might have done. Deschon Winston started the season at point guard with McNeill hurt, but when McNeill took over Winston not only went to the bench, he almost disappeared. Anticevich and McCullogh played minutes early, and Anticevich looked pretty good in spots. Both seldom played after that, with the exception of Anticievich hitting a key three to help beat Stanford. If McCullogh, Winston, and Anticevich were older players, I'm sure their egos would be bruised, but as freshman, they probably did not expect to play much. Still no player likes to move from good minutes to nearly no minutes. Jones needs to learn to evaluate his players better, and handle them better if he wants to keep them.
Or maybe it means people lost the right to have minutes and coach held them accountable. Or maybe it means other people passed those guys as the season went on. There are a million things it could be.

It seems like there's a sentiment to always see the glass half empty with this staff. It may well have been way worse if the staff blindly stuck with the initial guys who got minutes
Your first sentence is correct, obviously, but it is up to both coach and player if the player continues to sit on the bench or he earns another chance at minutes. The situation this year, in my opinion, needed to remain fluid, because Cal had so few experienced players, and it would have been judicious not to shrink the rotation to basically six players plus Hamilton. The season was not going to be a winning season, and in that case, the youngest players on the bench might have benefited from some more minutes. I liked to see Hamilton play after years of wallowing on the bench, but clearly Hamilton was not the future of the Cal program. My concern was not with winning games, but in how we played the game. It was hard to look good, let alone win games with such a small rotation. All you needed was one player to get in foul trouble, and the team got in trouble. And Lee was often in foul trouble. I never said Jones made the wrong decision to bench a player, but some of those players disappeared, never to get a meaningful minute after that. You don't want to impact a player's confidence so early in his career. Cal was going nowhere, so why not give Winston, Anticevich and McCullogh a few more minutes, so they feel more a part of the team? What purpose does it serve not to? I did not say Cal should have stuck with the initial starters. Only that if you bench someone, just give him a small reward of minutes if he earns them. If the only players who earn minutes on a lightly talented team like this full of youngsters are the starting 5 plus one or two, it is not healthy for team morale.

As for Jones, he is being paid a million dollars a year or more, As the head coach, he more than anyone else is responsible for the product he puts on the floor. Did you think Cal got a million dollars worth of product this season? Yes, I know he won't begin being be responsible for the talent he has to work with until next season, when all of the players, except Davis, will be his own recruits. But he has already lost his best scorer, best free throw shooter, best passer, and one of his best defenders, who is now transferring. He's lost him perhaps because he and Coleman could not get on the same page, or he could not find a way to use Coleman, or Coleman could not adjust to Jones' system, or Coleman could not get along with Jones, or something else. Maybe they never could click. Players who transfer are usually not the team's best player, or one of the best, which Coleman is. In any case, the coach is the one usually held responsible for how his team plays. He needs to be held accountable, just as he holds his players accountable, doesn't he? I hope with all my heart we don't lose any more players. In DC's case, it may just be personality differences. If another player leaves, we may be having more of a problem than just one player's desires.
 
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