Jaylen Brown needs to drive to the basket

cubzwin
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and quit settling for just launching 3's
Celtics would be up by double digits if players would work harder for shots.
bearister
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Shooting rim damaging 3's is a very ugly way to lose a Game 7. It is one thing to say the three pointer has changed the modern game, but quite another for a team to shoot them at 16%.
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concordtom
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It was youth as much as anything. Jaylen had a bad game for sure(!) but taking 3's was definitely part of his game (big diff from Cal, I know).

Jaylen actually shot well from three this year:
Reg season: 121-306, 39.5%
Post season: 41-100, 41.0% (before game 7)

For comparison, these are Larry Bird's 3 best years from 3:
85-86: 82-194, .423
86-87: 90-225, .400
87-88: 98-237, .414

Jaylen played 1 year of college and is a sophomore pro.
Larry played 4 years college and was into his 7th, 8th, 9th pro seasons.
We can acknowledge the poor performance, but he's 21, not 30.
bearister
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The Celtics ended up at 18% for 3 point shooting. Jaylen ended up with the same 3 point shooting percentage as the Cavs: 25% (Klay Shot threes at 64% yesterday ).
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GMP
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cubzwin said:

and quit settling for just launching 3's
Celtics would be up by double digits if players would work harder for shots.
Every missed shot is a bad one, I guess. I didn't think he forced any shots. He wasn't settling. As pointed out by others he's a very good three point shooter.
hanky1
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Bron greatest of all time
calumnus
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hanky1 said:

Bron greatest of all time


If he had gone to Cal with Leon, Ayinde and his other fellow Oakland Soldiers instead of straight to the NBA....
cubzwin
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Some days everything you throw up goes in and some days the rim gets smaller. Some guards, like former Bulls great John Paxson, really had no way to score other than the outside shot. JB has developed a good 3 pt shot but on days it isn't falling but he has the ability to drive and then kick out or go to the hoop and score or at least draw a foul. I'm not saying Brown's play is why the Celtics lost, Overall a pretty pathetic performance for the whole Celtic team in a game 7 at home. General lack of effort. Pathetic really.
concordtom
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Before 6&7, I was suggesting that it was too much to bet against Lebron and it played out exactly as imagined. You have to hand it to him, he kicked out MANY times for shots to teammates when he could have shot. In his postgame he said that he knew the Celtics would be trying to throw many bodies at him and wear him down, so he was trusting his teammates, and indeed he pulled them up and they hit enough of those shots to win.

You'd think it was a world championship the way everyone reacted. I felt that way, too, while it's only a conference title. Quite an accomplishment to reach 8 straight. He played all 82 games. Played all minutes. Survived the Kyrie defection and the Love absence. I mean, come on!! MJ had performances, but not quite like this.

I kept hearing Cavs players sounding satisfied with clearing this hurdle. They should be. But nowhere did I hear that there was one more hurdle to pass.

Sure they will regroup. Or maybe this was their final and they are satisfied.
UrsaMajor
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cubzwin said:

Some days everything you throw up goes in and some days the rim gets smaller. Some guards, like former Bulls great John Paxson, really had no way to score other than the outside shot. JB has developed a good 3 pt shot but on days it isn't falling but he has the ability to drive and then kick out or go to the hoop and score or at least draw a foul. I'm not saying Brown's play is why the Celtics lost, Overall a pretty pathetic performance for the whole Celtic team in a game 7 at home. General lack of effort. Pathetic really.
I don't think it was lack of effort; it was more a case of a very young team tightening up in a game 7. The shooting was awful, even though the looks were generally pretty good. Look out next year when they get Irving and Hayward back and have 2 first rounders.
concordtom
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UrsaMajor said:

cubzwin said:

Look out next year when they get Irving and Hayward back and have 2 first rounders.

Next year Boston has only the one #27 draft pick.

Due to the order of the lottery and stipulations of the trade (it couldn't be pick number this or that), the LAL pick gets put off another 1 or 2 years. It could become a SAC pick instead, I think. I detailed all that in another thread.

But I agree, it will be interesting to watch Boston next year with the two all star vet adds! Tatum was shining brightly when it mattered most, and I expect Jaylen and Rozier to be much better. Presumably, both will move behind Hayward and Irving in the rotation.

I was reading yesterday that Bost will already be at or slightly above the projected 101 M salary cap with Irving, Hayward, Horford (80M for the 3) Tatum, Jaylen, Rozier, Morris (20M). Oh, that dude with the funny name is also committed for 2 more years.

Marcus Smart is up for new contract NOW and wants more than 12-14M. They could lose him, although mgmt came out yesterday and said they want to keep him.
And I think Baynes, the gtown center, the fla pg, and a couple others are all free to go, but they will want to keep Baynes as well.

concordtom
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USA Today

Stevens and the Celtics hurt after falling short of the NBA Finals, but their future is undeniable. They will get a healthy Irving, Hayward and Daniel Theis back for next season, and in the NBA, a team can never have too much talent.

The Celtics have decisions to make in the offseason, and they don't have salary cap space. Marcus Smart, a bulldog of a defender and competitor, is a restricted free agent. The two sides couldn't reach an agreement on a contract extension before the season began, and teams will be interested in prying him from Boston because they want his services and they want to deplete some of that talent on that roster.

Aron Baynes, Shane Larkin and Greg Monroe are unrestricted free agents.

Regardless of that, the Celtics return Tatum, Brown, Irving, Hayward, Theis, Al Horford, Marcus Morris, Terry Rozier, Semi Ojeleye, Guerschon Yabusele, Abdel Nader.

And you never know what calculating president of basketball operations Danny Ainge will do in the draft, trades and free agency.

"You just don't know what opportunities present themselves," Ainge told reporters on Monday. "But I like this group of guys, and we're not looking to make changes other than just small tweaks here and there to our roster. We really do like this core group of guys, and we have all year."
concordtom
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Some are pondering the potential for a blockbuster trade.
While it's possible Ainge trots out the same as this year plus Kyrie and Hayward, maybe something huge comes up and he deals Jaylen and draft picks.

I can't see the core of Tatum, Irving, Hayward being dealt. And Horford is getting older, so wouldn't be trade bait. Would the Spurs like Jaylen and draft picks for Kawhi?

It will be a fun offseason! Where will Lebron go? What does Houston do to tweak their roster? What new superteam alliance may shape up? Is Westbrook destined or satisfied being Mr. OKC Triple Double the rest of his life?
concordtom
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Jabari will again be looking to just make any roster as an end of bench role player.
Wishing him best of luck! He sure showed well dur No his opportunities late last season. Given salary cap restrictions and the huge imbalance between stars and role players, there is great value for GMs to find the max talent at the lower salary levels as well. Unless your team has Lebron, every team needs to find great role players to win. You saw it with both Houston and GS last night.

As Jaylen Role has been saying on espn's new Get Up show with Mike Greenberg, "It's a team sport!"

Kerr said because of matchups, the way Houston isolates the weakest defender on Harden, he couldn't play McGee, Zaza, or West. So, his depth then was Shaggy, Bell, Cook. Now, Shaggy is a vet, but like West a cheap vet, while Bell and Cook are pups.

Ainge will have to get the best situational talent for value as possible at the end of his bench. Hopefully, Bird can be one of those guys. If not in Boston, then elsewhere.
MinotStateBeav
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If Jaylen played for Houston he would have been one of their top 3 pt threats last night lol
Big C
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Something tells me that adding Irving and Hayward is going to be, well, maybe not "subtraction by addition", but at least not the addition that some might think.

I have seen Kyrie Irving do great things on multiple occasions, but there is something about him that rubs me the wrong way, Maybe it's the not-sure-the-earth-is-round deal. Call me crazy, but I'd want everybody on my roster, especially the stars, to believe the earth is round. Maybe I'm just weird that way.

I think there is a decent chance -- say, 15% or so -- that Kyrie Irving is either a sophisticated bot or an alien plant.
concordtom
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A flat world theory didn't stop Kyrie from beating the Warriors 2 years ago.
I'm just sayin'!
GMP
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Big C said:

Something tells me that adding Irving and Hayward is going to be, well, maybe not "subtraction by addition", but at least not the addition that some might think.

I have seen Kyrie Irving do great things on multiple occasions, but there is something about him that rubs me the wrong way, Maybe it's the not-sure-the-earth-is-round deal. Call me crazy, but I'd want everybody on my roster, especially the stars, to believe the earth is round. Maybe I'm just weird that way.

I think there is a decent chance -- say, 15% or so -- that Kyrie Irving is either a sophisticated bot or an alien plant.
I think Tatum is better than Hayward already. At the very least, it's close and because they play similar roles Hayward will stunt Tatum's growth. If I was Boston, I'd trade Hayward this summer if I could get fair value (but I don't know what that is). They could use another big man, though.
concordtom
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GMP said:

I think Tatum is better than Hayward already. At the very least, it's close and because they play similar roles Hayward will stunt Tatum's growth. If I was Boston, I'd trade Hayward this summer if I could get fair value (but I don't know what that is). They could use another big man, though.
I doubt you'd get great value for Hayward coming off his injury, so forget that.
Sure, maybe they play the same role, but that's fine in this new world of interchangeable positions. I'd argue that Jaylen is a third SF.

Let them rest a bit during the regular season sharing PT. Come playoff time, you want that depth, as we saw from both Houston and Boston these past couple days.

If you were going to trade someone, Brown would be first up.

I agree the Celtics could use another big guy.

How about this as a "Weston Five":
Kyrie
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Horford

Looks like a young Hamptons Five.
concordtom
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What Boston needs is a true dedicated spot up 3 shooter to spread the floor for the penetration tendencies of the others. Smart played great D, but he's not a shooter, and you can get enough D out of the others making him less necessary.

Consider what Korver did for Cavs this postseason, and now put him as a sub, not starter, in Boston.
Big C
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concordtom said:

A flat world theory didn't stop Kyrie from beating the Warriors 2 years ago.
I'm just sayin'!
Yes, he looked great against the Warriors in that series. Eventually, though, he got fed up with being the #2 guy in Cleveland. Maybe his entourage was whispering in his ear, "Don't play Second Fiddle to anybody... at least not on this flat earth!"
GMP
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concordtom said:

GMP said:

I think Tatum is better than Hayward already. At the very least, it's close and because they play similar roles Hayward will stunt Tatum's growth. If I was Boston, I'd trade Hayward this summer if I could get fair value (but I don't know what that is). They could use another big man, though.
I doubt you'd get great value for Hayward coming off his injury, so forget that.
Sure, maybe they play the same role, but that's fine in this new world of interchangeable positions. I'd argue that Jaylen is a third SF.

Let them rest a bit during the regular season sharing PT. Come playoff time, you want that depth, as we saw from both Houston and Boston these past couple days.

If you were going to trade someone, Brown would be first up.

I agree the Celtics could use another big guy.

How about this as a "Weston Five":
Kyrie
Brown
Tatum
Hayward
Horford

Looks like a young Hamptons Five.


Brown has a very different skill set than Hayward and Tatum, making him more versatile and valuable to the Celtics. But while his shot has improved, his offensive game is not as strong as the other two, making him less valuable to other teams and thus getting less return. Tatum is probably untouchable right now. Very few players in the league would be able to get Boston to deal him. Hence, Hayward.
south bender
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I doubt Celts deal Brown.

He has been as valuable as Tatum. He also has an upside advanatage with his greater athleticism.

Jaylen has improved so much offensively, is still super young. He is also on his way to being an elite defender.

He won't be traded.
south bender
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concordtom
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I didn't mean to suggest he (Brown) will or should be traded.
I just meant that it could happen, just examining Boston's roster.
I don't think he will, nor would I want him to be.
Ainge has many assets to (try to) configure into a title team.
hanky1
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Jaylen I think has been one of the most improved players in the NBA. But he's not untouchable and for the right deal I think the Celtics would trade him.
concordtom
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Right.
Whereas Jayson Tatum IS untouchable, I should think.
concordtom
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"It's a good draft. It's not a special, special draft. But it's a very good draft," Ainge said on WEEI's "Dale and Keefe" show. "I think it's got some decent depth. I wouldn't say it's one of the better ones or one of the worst ones. It's a normal draft. But we're excited about who we can potentially add late in the draft."

The Sporting News reported the Celtics' possible interest in Bamba this week. He's likely to go in the third-to-sixth range, so Boston, with the 27th pick, would have to trade up to get him - with speculation centering on Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier being among the players who could be moved.

Those two can be considered "core guys" but when asked if he plans on returning the same team that lost in seven games to the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference Finals, Ainge answered: "Probably not the entire team, but the main core guys, sure."
SFCityBear
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As to the original post, it is not fair to lay this on Jaylen Brown or any player. In high-level competitions, such as the NBA Playoffs Game 7, players do not wander out on the floor and willy-nilly decide to toss up a lot of threes, or not. They are coached and told what shots the coach would prefer them to take, and which players should take them, for the most part. The Celtics are no strangers to winning NBA Playoffs, and with the lost of arguably their best player, Kyrie Irving, to injury, they needed to make some adjustments.

The three point shot is a huge part of the Celtic offense. During the regular season, they were ranked 10th in the NBA in three-point attempts, 2nd in 3PFG%, and 7th in three point baskets. The Celtics shot 30 three point attempts per game during the regular season, and 28 attempts during the playoffs. To compensate for the loss of Irving, who averaged 6.8 three point attempts per game, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum all increased their three point shot output over that of the regular season.

In the Cleveland playoff series, the Celtics won the first two games handily, averaging 30.5 3PA per game. In the third and fourth games, the Cavs limited the Celts to only an average of only 25 attempts, and Cleveland won both games easily. In the 5th game, the Celts put up 39 attempts, and won that game. In the 6th game, the Cavs again held the Celts to below 30 attempts (28), and the Cavs won that game. So one thing was clear to the Celtic coaches, and that was they hadn't won any games in the series where they put up less than 30 attempts.

So I think it was a strategy, trying to stick to their usual offense, putting up a lot of three point attempts, and not having their best player able to play, with others trying to step up and fill the void. The only thing wrong with the strategy, was the old adage, true over all the years since basketball was first played, "Live by the outside shot, then die by the outside shot." The Celtics just went cold. They shot threes over the season at 37.7%, and in the first six games of the Cleveland series at 34.3%. In game seven, they shot them at 17.9%. If they had shot them as well as they did for the first six games, the Celtics would have won that game by 10 points, along with the series. If they shot them as well as they had for the regular season, they would have won by 16 points.







concordtom
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I agree, SFC.
MSaviolives
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Interesting statistic from an article in The Athletic, giving post-season grades for each Celtics player. Article (need a subscription to read though.) Jaylen is given an "A." Apparently, his defense is pretty dang good:

Quote:

Brown led the NBA in defensive field goal percentage at 39.6 percent on 9.4 shots per game, while holding shooters to minus5.7 percent below their average, per NBA Stats. The only players ahead of him in the latter category were Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis and Al Horford, three of the league's premier defenders who are all bigs.
Yogi Bear
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Sky is the limit for him. He really stepped his game up this year.
hotlanta
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Jaylen was a special athlete at Cal, now he's a special athlete AND basketball player with the Celtics.
concordtom
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Interesting rumor that Kyrie might want to split to go to NYknicks.
If that were to happen they'd better keep Scary Terry!!!
Yogi Bear
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concordtom said:

Interesting rumor that Kyrie might want to split to go to NYknicks.
If that were to happen they'd better keep Scary Terry!!!
Kyrie will stay where he is
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