oskidunker said:

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What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?

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Vanover is a freshman. Thomas Welsh as a UCLA freshman shot only 47% from the floor, and only 61% from the free throw line, averaged only 3.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, and one blocked shot per game. In fact, according to sports-reference.com, he did not attempt a three pointer at all until his senior year, where he shot threes at 40%. Welsh did not really blossom until his senior year, and he was a much, much better player as a senior. Many tall bigs follow a similar growth pattern in their careers, and can take a long time to develop.

I hope Vanover comes along faster than Welsh did, as Cal is desperate for a presence in the paint, someone to block or bother shots on defense, get some rebounds, get some put-backs, and score enough to keep defenses from double teaming better scorers. That he can already shoot well outside is a plus, but we need him inside even more, at least this season.

SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?

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Vanover is a freshman. Thomas Welsh as a UCLA freshman shot only 47% from the floor, and only 61% from the free throw line, averaged only 3.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, and one blocked shot per game. In fact, according to sports-reference.com, he did not attempt a three pointer at all until his senior year, where he shot threes at 40%. Welsh did not really blossom until his senior year, and he was a much, much better player as a senior. Many tall bigs follow a similar growth pattern in their careers, and can take a long time to develop.

I hope Vanover comes along faster than Welsh did, as Cal is desperate for a presence in the paint, someone to block or bother shots on defense, get some rebounds, get some put-backs, and score enough to keep defenses from double teaming better scorers. That he can already shoot well outside is a plus, but we need him inside even more, at least this season.

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if Vanover can make as big an impact as Welch in his freshmen year, I would be ecstatic

HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?

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Vanover is a freshman. Thomas Welsh as a UCLA freshman shot only 47% from the floor, and only 61% from the free throw line, averaged only 3.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, and one blocked shot per game. In fact, according to sports-reference.com, he did not attempt a three pointer at all until his senior year, where he shot threes at 40%. Welsh did not really blossom until his senior year, and he was a much, much better player as a senior. Many tall bigs follow a similar growth pattern in their careers, and can take a long time to develop.

I hope Vanover comes along faster than Welsh did, as Cal is desperate for a presence in the paint, someone to block or bother shots on defense, get some rebounds, get some put-backs, and score enough to keep defenses from double teaming better scorers. That he can already shoot well outside is a plus, but we need him inside even more, at least this season.

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if Vanover can make as big an impact as Welch in his freshmen year, I would be ecstatic

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Welsh made almost no impact his frosh year, so I ecstatic is a bit strong. A similar trajectory would be a reasonable goal for Vanover tho.

socaltownie said:

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Yet Moraga bet me a dozen top dogs that we c ou uld win double digits. Ain't happening no ing. I say 2 games in confernce......maybe

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Okay, we're still going to be quite "win challenged" this season, but don't you think we'll be better than last year? I don't see why we can't win 4-6 conference games this year, then 8-10 the following year.

Civil Bear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?

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Vanover is a freshman. Thomas Welsh as a UCLA freshman shot only 47% from the floor, and only 61% from the free throw line, averaged only 3.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, and one blocked shot per game. In fact, according to sports-reference.com, he did not attempt a three pointer at all until his senior year, where he shot threes at 40%. Welsh did not really blossom until his senior year, and he was a much, much better player as a senior. Many tall bigs follow a similar growth pattern in their careers, and can take a long time to develop.

I hope Vanover comes along faster than Welsh did, as Cal is desperate for a presence in the paint, someone to block or bother shots on defense, get some rebounds, get some put-backs, and score enough to keep defenses from double teaming better scorers. That he can already shoot well outside is a plus, but we need him inside even more, at least this season.

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if Vanover can make as big an impact as Welch in his freshmen year, I would be ecstatic

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Welsh made almost no impact his frosh year, so I ecstatic is a bit strong. A similar trajectory would be a reasonable goal for Vanover tho.

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4 pts and especially 4 rebounds isn't 'no impact', and I think welsh was an adequate defender. if vanover can grab 4 rebounds and provide some interior defense, then I think that is a good impact for him and this team

Civil Bear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?

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Vanover is a freshman. Thomas Welsh as a UCLA freshman shot only 47% from the floor, and only 61% from the free throw line, averaged only 3.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, and one blocked shot per game. In fact, according to sports-reference.com, he did not attempt a three pointer at all until his senior year, where he shot threes at 40%. Welsh did not really blossom until his senior year, and he was a much, much better player as a senior. Many tall bigs follow a similar growth pattern in their careers, and can take a long time to develop.

I hope Vanover comes along faster than Welsh did, as Cal is desperate for a presence in the paint, someone to block or bother shots on defense, get some rebounds, get some put-backs, and score enough to keep defenses from double teaming better scorers. That he can already shoot well outside is a plus, but we need him inside even more, at least this season.

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if Vanover can make as big an impact as Welch in his freshmen year, I would be ecstatic

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Welsh made almost no impact his frosh year, so I ecstatic is a bit strong. A similar trajectory would be a reasonable goal for Vanover tho.

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Vanover will be getting minutes this year simply because we don't have anybody else to put out there. I'd be happy with 10 minutes per game and just some general contributions (while limiting the negative). And, hopefully, playing this year will help him in the future. Don't want to see him develop any chronic injuries, legs, feet, etc.

HoopDreams said:

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Civil Bear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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What if Vanover plays like Thomas Welch?

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Vanover is a freshman. Thomas Welsh as a UCLA freshman shot only 47% from the floor, and only 61% from the free throw line, averaged only 3.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, and one blocked shot per game. In fact, according to sports-reference.com, he did not attempt a three pointer at all until his senior year, where he shot threes at 40%. Welsh did not really blossom until his senior year, and he was a much, much better player as a senior. Many tall bigs follow a similar growth pattern in their careers, and can take a long time to develop.

I hope Vanover comes along faster than Welsh did, as Cal is desperate for a presence in the paint, someone to block or bother shots on defense, get some rebounds, get some put-backs, and score enough to keep defenses from double teaming better scorers. That he can already shoot well outside is a plus, but we need him inside even more, at least this season.

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if Vanover can make as big an impact as Welch in his freshmen year, I would be ecstatic

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Welsh made almost no impact his frosh year, so I ecstatic is a bit strong. A similar trajectory would be a reasonable goal for Vanover tho.

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4 pts and especially 4 rebounds isn't 'no impact', and I think welsh was an adequate defender. if vanover can grab 4 rebounds and provide some interior defense, then I think that is a good impact for him and this team

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We definitely have a difference in what we consider to be an impact. That aside, I'm curious why you would be ecstatic with not quite 4 points and rebounds. Is it because you think it's nearly impossible Vanover could reach those numbers as frosh? I'd be happy if Vanover reached those numbers because there is no certainty he will. But ecstatic?

For the record, I said "almost no impact", not "no impact". For me, minimum impact means would those numbers have just as likely been replaced/absorbed by the rest of the team. If no, then the player had at least some impact.

IMHO averaging 4 points, 4 rebounds, and 10 minutes would be more than a positive contribution.

stu said:

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IMHO averaging 4 points, 4 rebounds, and 10 minutes would be more than a positive contribution.

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Agreed, particularly considering it took Welsh 16+mpg to almost get those kind of numbers. For some reference, Vanover got 3 and 3 against Cal State East Bay in 12+ minutes the other night. Averaging 4 and 4 playing 10mpg the rest of the way would show some nice trajectory.

well 'ecstatic' is just the word I used. I could have said 'very happy with' or something else that would probably be easier for you to agree with.

my point is I thought Welsh was a near elite recruit, and despite his limited stats as a freshmen, he provided some nice contribution.

So my thinking is I think Vanover is not nearly as good as Welsh was in his freshmen year. Therefore for him to match Welch's stats (and my memory of Welch's freshmen defense) would exceed my expectation.

Now it is possible, that Vanover could average 1 three point shot a game as I understand he is a very good three point shooter, but in the exhibition he rushed his shots, and that didn't bode well for him even though it was only his first game