59bear said:

---

joe amos yaks said:

---

Santa Clara's Awtrey . . . also, I'd add the Ogden bros . . . Bud and Ralph. . .but they were from SLO.

---

Actually, the Ogdens were from San Jose, Lincoln High I believe. Lincoln gave Cal all time middle distance star Don Bowden. Bud Ogden was a good HS player who really blossomed at Santa Clara. Younger brother Ralph was an elite recruit coming out of HS who underperformed expectations in college although the was good enough to get a cup of coffee in the NBA.

---

Bud Ogden was taken in the First Round, 13th pick and had a two year career with the 76ers; Bud went in the 4th Round, 56th pick and had a one year career with the Warriors. Check out their brave father:

"Ogden's father, Carlos Ogden, Sr., fought in World War II and was awarded the Medal of Honor, three Purple Hearts and one Bronze Star Medal." Wikipedia

Dennis Awtrey went in 3rd Round, 46th pick. He played in the league for twelve seasons, spending time with the 76ers, Chicago Bulls, Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics, Seattle SuperSonics, and Portland Trail Blazers.

Photo below, left to right, Dennis Awtrey, Ralph and Bud (my sister graduated Santa Clara University in 1968 during the time these guys played):

I saw the Ogdens play several times in the old San Jose Civic Auditorium...a very darkly lit venue.

Btw -- other prospects on that SCu team, the Garibaldi bros (Ron and Don).

joe amos yaks said:

---

I saw the Ogdens play several times in the old San Jose Civic Auditorium...a very darkly lit venue.

Btw -- other prospects on that SCu team, the Garibaldi bros (Ron and Don).

---

Don't know about "Ron"/"Don" but Dick Garibaldi and younger brother Bob both starred in basketball for Santa Clara. Bob was also a standout pitcher who played for the Giants and, after retirement, became a well known west coast college basketball referee.

You guys are going to want to check out pages 36 to 41 in California magazine. The article is entitled 150 Years of Cal at Play. A collectors item for all Cal sports junkies!

UrsaMajor said:

---

Can you say more about single platoon football and it's effect on Pappy?

Agree that Bozeman's cheating was egregious, although not sure if we would have been a championship caliber team anyway (how much of his recruiting success was because of cheating to begin with?)

---

It was said by many at the time that Pappy was a genius with substitution schemes, which all went out the window with single platoon football and its very restrictive rules on substitutions. Even in two platoon football, Pappy had a few players who played both offense and defense, like Les Richter, Matt Hazeltine, and even Paul Larson who played QB, RB, DB, and PK.

'59bear brings up a good point about the recruiting scandals that led to the breakup of the PCC, maybe resulting ion pappy's demise, and Pappy or his staff may have participated in that, in the Ronnie Knox scandal. Cal also was penalized for violations around Jerry Drew, a very talented running back, on Pappy's watch.

"Don't know about "Ron"/"Don" but Dick Garibaldi and younger brother Bob both starred in basketball for Santa Clara. Bob was also a standout pitcher who played for the Giants and, after retirement, became a well known west coast college basketball referee."

Yes, that's it -- Dick Garibaldi and Bob Garibaldi.
Thank you.

Another player from San Jose (Camden High) was Keith Swagerty who went to University of the Pacific where he averaged 20 pts and 18 rbs for his 3 year career.....Led the Tigers to a NCAA tourney win over defending champs Texas Western in 1967....played against the Ogden bros. many times....was WCC player of the year twice in 66 and 67.....

joe amos yaks said:

---

"Don't know about "Ron"/"Don" but Dick Garibaldi and younger brother Bob both starred in basketball for Santa Clara. Bob was also a standout pitcher who played for the Giants and, after retirement, became a well known west coast college basketball referee."

Yes, that's it -- Dick Garibaldi and Bob Garibaldi.
Thank you.

---

I remember Bob Garibaldi in a different way....His first year refereeing high school ball he fouled me out in one quarter...I asked my coach why he didn't pull me and calm me down, he said he knew I was going to pull myself soon enough and I wasn't important enough to save for later.....He was right....

Phil Smith, Washington HS, SF(1970); uSF; GSt Warriors round #2 (1974).
Kevin Restani, Riordan HS, SF (1970); uSF; Cav's round #3 (1974).
Mike Quick, Castlemont HS, Oak' (1969; all ToC); uSF

All played at uSF for Coach Bob Gaillard (1970-78); Ells HS (1958), Richmond; uSF. Another gem that got away.

joe amos yaks said:

---

"Don't know about "Ron"/"Don" but Dick Garibaldi and younger brother Bob both starred in basketball for Santa Clara. Bob was also a standout pitcher who played for the Giants and, after retirement, became a well known west coast college basketball referee."

Yes, that's it -- Dick Garibaldi and Bob Garibaldi.
Thank you.

---

Garibaldi was the Giants' first "bonus baby" (1st player signed to a bonus of over $100,000, [his was $150K] which was impossibly huge back then). Unfortunately, he had arm trouble and wound up pitching a total of about 7 innings over 4 years (62, 63, 66, 69). Also unfortunately, he hung around the Pac-10 too long and by the time he retired, he was one of the worst refs in the country, mostly because he couldn't run anymore and was frequently way out of position.

UrsaMajor said:

---

joe amos yaks said:

---

"Don't know about "Ron"/"Don" but Dick Garibaldi and younger brother Bob both starred in basketball for Santa Clara. Bob was also a standout pitcher who played for the Giants and, after retirement, became a well known west coast college basketball referee."

Yes, that's it -- Dick Garibaldi and Bob Garibaldi.
Thank you.

---

Garibaldi was the Giants' first "bonus baby" (1st player signed to a bonus of over $100,000, [his was $150K] which was impossibly huge back then). Unfortunately, he had arm trouble and wound up pitching a total of about 7 innings over 4 years (62, 63, 66, 69). Also unfortunately, he hung around the Pac-10 too long and by the time he retired, he was one of the worst refs in the country, mostly because he couldn't run anymore and was frequently way out of position.

---

He was probably damaged goods due to overuse in the college world series.

Referree??Ah yes--I remember it well. I started to ref CYO games when I was 59. You have no idea how much you have lost mentally and physically until you start to ref basketball games. My brain was usually 5 seconds behind my eyes. Wait!!!!did I just see that??Too late!!!Therew's a fast break in the other direction. Sometimes I forgot which team was going in which direction. No kidding--One time I called "3 seconds" on the defensive team!!!After one game, a woman stormed out from the stands: She demanded to know my name. I bravely told her. She then said, " I don't think you know what you're doing." The truth, of course, was that I USED to know what I was doing, but age had eroded my confidence . Also, the damn whistle kept falling out of my mouth. Lesson????Don't wait until you're 59 to be a ref. Very humbling to be sure.

helltopay1 said:

---

Referree??Ah yes--I remember it well. I started to ref CYO games when I was 59. You have no idea how much you have lost mentally and physically until you start to ref basketball games. My brain was usually 5 seconds behind my eyes. Wait!!!!did I just see that??Too late!!!Therew's a fast break in the other direction. Sometimes I forgot which team was going in which direction. No kidding--One time I called "3 seconds" on the defensive team!!!After one game, a woman stormed out from the stands: She demanded to know my name. I bravely told her. She then said, " I don't think you know what you're doing." The truth, of course, was that I USED to know what I was doing, but age had eroded my confidence . Also, the damn whistle kept falling out of my mouth. Lesson????Don't wait until you're 59 to be a ref. Very humbling to be sure.

---

One of the hardest things I ever tried to do. I refereed a gym class scrimmage for Neff as a senior in high school. My best friend was in the class, and he kept complaining to me that he was getting hacked on his jump shot. I tried to focus tight on his shot, but I could never see the defender commit a foul. My friend was a very honest person, so I knew he was telling the truth, but even with 20-20 vision, I could not see the fouls he spoke of. Nearly lost my best friend over it. Luckily he forgave me, and we are still the best of friends. But I
never would ref a game again.

Another time in a Lowell game, I think the ref was Ernie Filiberti, a very experienced ref. He was standing on the baseline and I was at the top ot the key. A guy stole the ball and took off dribbling down the floor. He was in line with me and Filiberti, about 10 feet ahead of me. I never got within 10 feet of the guy, but Ernie whistled me for a foul. I got so hot, Ernie went over and told my coach he better sit me down to cool off. I sit down, and a few minutes later, I go back in and again I was 10 feet from some player and Ernie blows his whistle. I blow my top, and he throws me out of the game. I don't know how anyone can be a referee. Maybe the pay is good. You don't get much thanks from players or fans, mostly just abuse.

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

Referree??Ah yes--I remember it well. I started to ref CYO games when I was 59. You have no idea how much you have lost mentally and physically until you start to ref basketball games. My brain was usually 5 seconds behind my eyes. Wait!!!!did I just see that??Too late!!!Therew's a fast break in the other direction. Sometimes I forgot which team was going in which direction. No kidding--One time I called "3 seconds" on the defensive team!!!After one game, a woman stormed out from the stands: She demanded to know my name. I bravely told her. She then said, " I don't think you know what you're doing." The truth, of course, was that I USED to know what I was doing, but age had eroded my confidence . Also, the damn whistle kept falling out of my mouth. Lesson????Don't wait until you're 59 to be a ref. Very humbling to be sure.

---

One of the hardest things I ever tried to do. I refereed a gym class scrimmage for Neff as a senior in high school. My best friend was in the class, and he kept complaining to me that he was getting hacked on his jump shot. I tried to focus tight on his shot, but I could never see the defender commit a foul. My friend was a very honest person, so I knew he was telling the truth, but even with 20-20 vision, I could not see the fouls he spoke of. Nearly lost my best friend over it. Luckily he forgave me, and we are still the best of friends. But I
never would ref a game again.

Another time in a Lowell game, I think the ref was Ernie Filiberti, a very experienced ref. He was standing on the baseline and I was at the top ot the key. A guy stole the ball and took off dribbling down the floor. He was in line with me and Filiberti, about 10 feet ahead of me. I never got within 10 feet of the guy, but Ernie whistled me for a foul. I got so hot, Ernie went over and told my coach he better sit me down to cool off. I sit down, and a few minutes later, I go back in and again I was 10 feet from some player and Ernie blows his whistle. I blow my top, and he throws me out of the game. I don't know how anyone can be a referee. Maybe the pay is good. You don't get much thanks from players or fans, mostly just abuse.

---

Fans always complain that they can see better than the refs. I tried reffing a couple of times (middle school basketball) and decided it was impossible (and I was only in my 40's when I did that). As for fans in the stands, however, there is some truth to what we say. There are many things you can see more easily from above with no players screening your view. I always wondered if it wouldn't make sense to experiment with one official above the court who could signal down to a ref on the floor. Probably wouldn't work, but might be worth a try...

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

Referree??Ah yes--I remember it well. I started to ref CYO games when I was 59 . . . Very humbling to be sure.

---

One of the hardest things I ever tried to do. I refereed a gym class scrimmage for Neff as a senior in high school. My best friend was in the class, and he kept complaining to me that he was getting hacked on his jump shot. I tried to focus tight on his shot, but I could never see the defender commit a foul. My friend was a very honest person, so I knew he was telling the truth, but even with 20-20 vision, I could not see the fouls he spoke of. Nearly lost my best friend over it. Luckily he forgave me, and we are still the best of friends. But I
never would ref a game again.

Another time in a Lowell game, I think the ref was Ernie Filiberti, a very experienced ref. He was standing on the baseline and I was at the top ot the key. A guy stole the ball and took off dribbling down the floor. He was in line with me and Filiberti, about 10 feet ahead of me. I never got within 10 feet of the guy, but Ernie whistled me for a foul. I got so hot, Ernie went over and told my coach he better sit me down to cool off. I sit down, and a few minutes later, I go back in and again I was 10 feet from some player and Ernie blows his whistle. I blow my top, and he throws me out of the game. I don't know how anyone can be a referee. Maybe the pay is good. You don't get much thanks from players or fans, mostly just abuse.

---

TWEE-E-E-T ! ! !

10 feet? You were probably within an 8' radius, maybe 6'. Filiberti (I remember him) was 15'-20' on the other side of the guy. Did you question his heritage, his judgment, his eyesight or make some other declarative statement?

I coached and officiated youth basketball and umpired youth baseball and adult softball for an East Bay City parks and rec' dept when I was 20-26 years old working my way through college. It was a fun life experience.

My supervisor and mentor was a former Cal tennis player and Coach Price basketball player named Dick Hunn. He was a most excellent person whom I had known for most of my life. He counseled me to become a public school teacher, which I did for about 8 years.

Anyway, I enjoyed coaching and officiating, but it could be challenging. The kids and parents were great, even though I didn't always get it right.

By far the most "challenging" group to umpire was adult softball (age group 25-35 years). Some of these mostly blue-collar guys were wannabe pros, and they allowed little to no margin for error. Some lied or tried to cheat, but only a few got hostile. I seldom ejected players from games, but once I took measures to remove a player from league participation after he made threats following warnings to his team manager about his behavior after a foul ball ruling. Much ado about nothing.

UrsaMajor said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

Referree??Ah yes--I remember it well. I started to ref CYO games when I was 59. You have no idea how much you have lost mentally and physically until you start to ref basketball games. My brain was usually 5 seconds behind my eyes. Wait!!!!did I just see that??Too late!!!Therew's a fast break in the other direction. Sometimes I forgot which team was going in which direction. No kidding--One time I called "3 seconds" on the defensive team!!!After one game, a woman stormed out from the stands: She demanded to know my name. I bravely told her. She then said, " I don't think you know what you're doing." The truth, of course, was that I USED to know what I was doing, but age had eroded my confidence . Also, the damn whistle kept falling out of my mouth. Lesson????Don't wait until you're 59 to be a ref. Very humbling to be sure.

---

One of the hardest things I ever tried to do. I refereed a gym class scrimmage for Neff as a senior in high school. My best friend was in the class, and he kept complaining to me that he was getting hacked on his jump shot. I tried to focus tight on his shot, but I could never see the defender commit a foul. My friend was a very honest person, so I knew he was telling the truth, but even with 20-20 vision, I could not see the fouls he spoke of. Nearly lost my best friend over it. Luckily he forgave me, and we are still the best of friends. But I
never would ref a game again.

Another time in a Lowell game, I think the ref was Ernie Filiberti, a very experienced ref. He was standing on the baseline and I was at the top ot the key. A guy stole the ball and took off dribbling down the floor. He was in line with me and Filiberti, about 10 feet ahead of me. I never got within 10 feet of the guy, but Ernie whistled me for a foul. I got so hot, Ernie went over and told my coach he better sit me down to cool off. I sit down, and a few minutes later, I go back in and again I was 10 feet from some player and Ernie blows his whistle. I blow my top, and he throws me out of the game. I don't know how anyone can be a referee. Maybe the pay is good. You don't get much thanks from players or fans, mostly just abuse.

---

Fans always complain that they can see better than the refs. I tried reffing a couple of times (middle school basketball) and decided it was impossible (and I was only in my 40's when I did that). As for fans in the stands, however, there is some truth to what we say. There are many things you can see more easily from above with no players screening your view. I always wondered if it wouldn't make sense to experiment with one official above the court who could signal down to a ref on the floor. Probably wouldn't work, but might be worth a try...

---

Anything is worth a try, especially in the PAC12.

UrsaMajor said:

---

I always wondered if it wouldn't make sense to experiment with one official above the court who could signal down to a ref on the floor.

---

I totally agree. The ref in the stands would at least see what is obvious to every fan. Maybe that ref could be used like a replay.

EricBear said:

---

Not quite on topic, but would have been nice to have Matz Stockman this year. He has played in all 11 games for 9-2 Minnesota. Averaging 13.4 mpg, 3.9 ppg and 2.7 rpg. Also one block per game. Could have used that, especially now that Vanover is out.

https://gophersports.com/cumestats.aspx?path=mbball

Here is a nice article on Matz. However, Richie Pitino's quotes are a little misleading and certainly disingenuous. Last spring he needed Matz gone, because he thought Geno Crandell was going to grad transfer from North Dakota to Minnesota. But Crandell flipped last-minute to Gonzaga. Therefore, there was still room for Matz. Further, one of Minnesota's other bigs had gotten hurt, so they made sure Matz stayed. If Crandell had in fact chosen Minnesota, Pitino would have made sure Matz graduated and he would be in Berkeley right now.

http://www.mndaily.com/article/2018/11/s-after-long-journey-matz-stockman-is-getting-a-chance-to-contribute-at-minnesota


Thanks for this. I've been following Matz' journey and spinoffs (Crandell, the Pitinos, Wyking
being at Louisville with Matz, etc.)


As you probably know, there's more to the Crandell story. Just as Matz was not able to graduate in time, Crandell had, I believe, 19+ units to complete over the summer. He didn't get to Gonzaga until about the first week in October. Rusty though he was....he seemed to be working well with his new teammates. He played in 6 games and then, unfortunately, hurt his wrist.
Gopher fans...Crandell's a hometown kid... queried how his arriving late worked academically. Wonder if the NCAA looks into this kind of thing???? But then Gopher fans are like us..not knowing the whole story . They're also a bit like us in that they endured an 8-23 season in Pitino's third year.

Yes, we could have used Matz.

---

What about Gary Payton?

joe amos yaks said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

Referree??Ah yes--I remember it well. I started to ref CYO games when I was 59 . . . Very humbling to be sure.

---

One of the hardest things I ever tried to do. I refereed a gym class scrimmage for Neff as a senior in high school. My best friend was in the class, and he kept complaining to me that he was getting hacked on his jump shot. I tried to focus tight on his shot, but I could never see the defender commit a foul. My friend was a very honest person, so I knew he was telling the truth, but even with 20-20 vision, I could not see the fouls he spoke of. Nearly lost my best friend over it. Luckily he forgave me, and we are still the best of friends. But I
never would ref a game again.

Another time in a Lowell game, I think the ref was Ernie Filiberti, a very experienced ref. He was standing on the baseline and I was at the top ot the key. A guy stole the ball and took off dribbling down the floor. He was in line with me and Filiberti, about 10 feet ahead of me. I never got within 10 feet of the guy, but Ernie whistled me for a foul. I got so hot, Ernie went over and told my coach he better sit me down to cool off. I sit down, and a few minutes later, I go back in and again I was 10 feet from some player and Ernie blows his whistle. I blow my top, and he throws me out of the game. I don't know how anyone can be a referee. Maybe the pay is good. You don't get much thanks from players or fans, mostly just abuse.

---

TWEE-E-E-T ! ! !

10 feet? You were probably within an 8' radius, maybe 6'. Filiberti (I remember him) was 15'-20' on the other side of the guy. Did you question his heritage, his judgment, his eyesight or make some other declarative statement?

I coached and officiated youth basketball and umpired youth baseball and adult softball for an East Bay City parks and rec' dept when I was 20-26 years old working my way through college. It was a fun life experience.

My supervisor and mentor was a former Cal tennis player and Coach Price basketball player named Dick Hunn. He was a most excellent person whom I had known for most of my life. He counseled me to become a public school teacher, which I did for about 8 years.

Anyway, I enjoyed coaching and officiating, but it could be challenging. The kids and parents were great, even though I didn't always get it right.

By far the most "challenging" group to umpire was adult softball (age group 25-35 years). Some of these mostly blue-collar guys were wannabe pros, and they allowed little to no margin for error. Some lied or tried to cheat, but only a few got hostile. I seldom ejected players from games, but once I took measures to remove a player from league participation after he made threats following warnings to his team manager about his behavior after a foul ball ruling. Much ado about nothing.

---

10 feet at least. If I took a flying leap at the guy, I would have come up 6 feet short. I think I may have commented on Filiberti's eyesight. Filiberti and I graduated from the same elementary school, Grattan, 18 years apart. Filiberti played for San Jose State, and later became a Basketball Hall of Fame referee, having reffed for 30-40 years in the PCC and West Coast Conferences. 2,770 games, as I recall. Everybody liked the guy, except for me, for one game.

Wyking Jones.

Oh, you meant "player" recruiting misses. Oh well, none as close as Jones.

SF City" Gary Gillmor went to Grattan too. He told me he was set to go to SH, but, opted for Poly.

helltopay1 said:

---

SF City" Gary Gillmor went to Grattan too. He told me he was set to go to SH, but, opted for Poly.

---

Hell to Pay - When I went to Grattan, Gilmor was already a star at Poly and becoming a neighborhood legend. Started for Santa Clara for 2 or 3 years. Most of the kids who went to Grattan later went to Poly. did you know Denny Shutter? Poly 130s All-City, I think. Used to practice at Grattan a lot. The next star players in the neighborhood (Haight Ashbury) were John Murio of Grattan and Steve Gray of Dudley Stone. Murio and Gray both later went to Washington. Gray went on to be WAC Player of the Year at St Marys, and Murio, who played 5 sports - football, basketball, baseball, swimming, and tennis, played football, basketball and swiimming, went on to be small college football All-American at Whitworth, and played defensive back in the NFL for several years.