UrsaMajor said:

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Definitely agree about Freddy LaCour. Amazing talent that he basically wasted.

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I thought LaCour played some for the SF Saints of the ABL.

bearister said:

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joe amos yaks said:

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Go Hook Mitchell at Mosswood Park.

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Wasn't he about 5'8" tall.
That pic puts him about 12" above and 6' away from the rim.

Casey Jacobsen - at least it would make him marginally easier to listen to on PAC-12 networks if he were a Cal Alumni.

Jacobson is from SoCal.

As for other misses:
I'm surprised SFCity or HTP didn't mention Hank Luisetti--one of the first jump shooters in history.
Also: Drew Gooden, Kurt Rambis, and Paul Silas.

Dear Ursa: I'm surprised I didn't mention Hank luisetti too. My Dad played with Luisetti at Galileo. my Dad was a senior when Luisetti was a sophomore. That year my Das made second-string all-city while Luisetti made third string all-city. Paul Silas was a terrific miss too. LaCour had issues relating to his mixed heritage. Big deal in those days. His Dad was Creole from Louisiana while his Mom was a strict caucasian catholic . He could never bridge the divide and starting drinking heavily even when he was a freshman at SI. He scored 41 points against the Stanford freshman while a senior at SI.

Wow. Playing with Luisetti (although I still think he's an a-hole for going to Stanfurd)...
When I was at Washington, I was a benchwarmer (if the rotation was 10 deep, I was 11th man...) but we had the funniest looking starting lineup: Across the front line we went 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 (pretty big for the 60's!) and our starting backcourt went 6-4, 5-3 (our Chinese point guard).

UrsaMajor said:

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Definitely agree about Freddy LaCour. Amazing talent that he basically wasted.

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He had some help. He was Mr Basketball of California and then went to Kentucky to play in the North-South All-star game, the only national HS all star game in the country at the time, where he was named the MVP. All the best players were invited, except for Oscar Robertson, who was not invited because he was black. Rumors started up that LaCour was black as well. He was actually a Creole whose mother and father where from Louisiana. He was drafted by the St Louis Hawks, and there he met full-blown racism everywhere. He had to stay in colored hotels, eat in colored restaurants. Some teammates did not want him on the team, especially Cliff Hagan, who hounded him mercilessly, and when he got in games, Hagan and other teammates froze him out, wouldn't give him the ball. The only player on the team who befriended Freddy and supported him was Bob Petit, a class act. Fred began dating a white girl, and when the owners found out about it Fred got cut or traded, I don't remember which. He had been doing some gambling and drinking in high school, but with all the unfair pressure he felt in St Louis, he began to drink and gamble more. He had grown up in a white middle-class neighborhood, the Richmond, in San Francisco. White coaches recruited him in grammar school to play for their high school teams. He felt little discrimination, and never thought of himself as black..Maybe if he had grown up in the Fillmore like KC Jones or in a tough area of Oakland like Bill Russell, he might have been more ready to deal with the pressures of being black and trying to be accepted by teammates and fans in a white NBA.

UrsaMajor said:

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Wow. Playing with Luisetti (although I still think he's an a-hole for going to Stanfurd)...
When I was at Washington, I was a benchwarmer (if the rotation was 10 deep, I was 11th man...) but we had the funniest looking starting lineup: Across the front line we went 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 (pretty big for the 60's!) and our starting backcourt went 6-4, 5-3 (our Chinese point guard).

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Was the point guard Norman Owyoung?

UrsaMajor said:

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Jacobson is from SoCal.

As for other misses:
I'm surprised SFCity or HTP didn't mention Hank Luisetti--one of the first jump shooters in history.
Also: Drew Gooden, Kurt Rambis, and Paul Silas.

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I haven't mentioned anybody yet, because I'm perusing the Tournament of Champions All-Tournament teams, and haven't finished my list. But you guys have already mentioned most of the good ones. I'll try and post it tomorrow.

Bill Cartwright from Elk Grove (Sacramento).....or maybe even Craig McMillan from Cloverdale (went to Arizona but he was a McDonalds All American)...

joe amos yaks said:

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bearister said:

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joe amos yaks said:

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Go Hook Mitchell at Mosswood Park.

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Wasn't he about 5'8" tall.
That pic puts him about 12" above and 6' away from the rim.

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5'9 probably a 46' vertical

Darnell Robinson

DLS boys Brent and Jon Barry?

How's this for the greatest miss of all time: Bill Russell didn't start for mcClymonds until his senior year. One day, a USF assistant coach ( an italian who prepped at Washington and played on the 1948 USF NIT championship team) went to McClymonds to scout a guard USF was considering for a scholarship offer. Russell started for McClymonds that day ( his fourth start) and Guidice was so impressed that he came back to his boss, Phil Woolpert, and said. " wow--mcClymonds has a center who is really raw but he seems to have some skills which can't be taught--he jumps through the roof, blocks shots and I think he's still growing. Forget about the guard--let's offer this kid." True story. To this day, I don't know if any other school offered Russell. Did he have the grades for Calk??Probably not, but I would love to know if nibs Price had Russell on his radar. Any thoughts??

Dear Bearister: You bet. both the Barry boys would have made terrific Bears. What was the story there??

oldblue83 said:

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Dirk Nowitzki almost went to Cal...

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But went pro straight away, so not a miss.

bearister said:

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DLS boys Brent and Jon Barry?

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Scooter went to Georgia tech if I recall.

BeachedBear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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i should have been more specific. my bad. I should have said what great East bay players wound up elsewhere. That's why I mentioned the four that I mentioned. Players not from the East bay do not count. Come to think of it, let's include players from the Sacramento area because Cal is the nearest major university. I remember thge great Don Barksdale. How did UCLA get him??

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Then I like your original list. But Id put Payton above House. And I'd put Lichti between House and Lillard.

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Oh, the mention of Lichti hurts.
Mt Diablo High, it was a better place in the 80's, and an even better place when my grandma and her siblings went there in the 30's.

Dear Eric: I understand how 'lou" might have felt about the elder Barry. No coach wants to have someone like Rick Barry hanging around the gym all day passing judgment on anything and everything. Totally understandable.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Eric: I understand how 'lou" might have felt about the elder Barry. No coach wants to have someone like Rick Barry hanging around the gym all day passing judgment on anything and everything. Totally understandable.

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Well, he wouldn't have been any worse than Lamond Murray's dad who I saw coaching his son from the stands and courtside.

helltopay1 said:

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...Did he have the grades for Calk??Probably not....

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I think you may be over looking the fact that for most of Cal's history if you were a good athlete and could fog a mirror you qualified for a tweed sport coat, a pipe and drink tickets at the faculty club. I saw more than one star athlete hand in their exam blue books after 15 minutes but they never flunked out. I was also approached to write papers for athletes. I declined.

SFCityBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I guess the question is how do you define miss? By one definition, it's any player who went elsewhere--even if there was no chance to get him. I'd have to put Lew Alcindor at the top of that group along with Bill Walton. If you mean players we recruited hard and lost on, I guess Jerod Ward would be up there as well as Nowitzki and James (although the latter was never a real possibility).

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Did you ever really think that Nowitzki was going to come to the United States as anything other than an NBA player? I thought that recruitment by Braun was just rumor, never real. Was I wrong?

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Nowitzki might have gone to college for a year if he hadn't played so well in the Nike Hoops Summit, but he was already on NBA radar by that point. I don't think you can call anyone a miss if they choose the NBA over Cal.

SFCityBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Wow. Playing with Luisetti (although I still think he's an a-hole for going to Stanfurd)...
When I was at Washington, I was a benchwarmer (if the rotation was 10 deep, I was 11th man...) but we had the funniest looking starting lineup: Across the front line we went 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 (pretty big for the 60's!) and our starting backcourt went 6-4, 5-3 (our Chinese point guard).

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Was the point guard Norman Owyoung?

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No, although I remember him. Our guy was nowhere near that good; his name was Richard Chang.

EricBear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Bearister: You bet. both the Barry boys would have made terrific Bears. What was the story there??

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Grew up playing with Jon. He wasn't highly regarded coming out of HS. Lightly recruited. Went to UOP. Transferred to a JC after one year. His dad knew Bobby Cremins, who hooked him up at Georgia Tech. Played with Kenny Anderson. Was a late bloomer whose career blossomed and far exceeded anyone's wildest expectations.

Brent is a different deal. He was interested in Cal. I recall talking with him about it. Details hazy at this point, but he too was a bit of a late bloomer. Lou looked at him a bit, but passed. He wasn't alone. Had much greater obvious upside than Jon (and Scooter, who played at Kansas), so this was certainly a mistake, in my opinion.

Maybe Lou just didn't want to deal with Rick, especially since he was hanging around the Bay Area (not so in Corvallis) and generally a problem.

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Brent was amazing. Some of the best passes I've ever seen, esp. as a Clipper.

KoreAmBear said:

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EricBear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Bearister: You bet. both the Barry boys would have made terrific Bears. What was the story there??

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Grew up playing with Jon. He wasn't highly regarded coming out of HS. Lightly recruited. Went to UOP. Transferred to a JC after one year. His dad knew Bobby Cremins, who hooked him up at Georgia Tech. Played with Kenny Anderson. Was a late bloomer whose career blossomed and far exceeded anyone's wildest expectations.

Brent is a different deal. He was interested in Cal. I recall talking with him about it. Details hazy at this point, but he too was a bit of a late bloomer. Lou looked at him a bit, but passed. He wasn't alone. Had much greater obvious upside than Jon (and Scooter, who played at Kansas), so this was certainly a mistake, in my opinion.

Maybe Lou just didn't want to deal with Rick, especially since he was hanging around the Bay Area (not so in Corvallis) and generally a problem.

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Brent was amazing. Some of the best passes I've ever seen, esp. as a Clipper.

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I recall Brent putting the Beavers on his shoulders down the stretch to beat the Bears at Haas (or Harmon)

I remember that game.

...Kurt Rambis? If we're moving into the South Bay (Rambis - Cupertino), how about San Jose great Raymond Townsend; All-Pac at UCLA and drafted in 1st round by the Warriors. Believe he still stands as only Filipino-American to play in NBA.

I seem to recall Bill Glass saying the name "Raymond Townsend" over and over again in Harmon Gym (like, after he would hit a jumper). And that was before the 3-pt shot, right?

KoreAmBear said:

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EricBear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Bearister: You bet. both the Barry boys would have made terrific Bears. What was the story there??

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Grew up playing with Jon. He wasn't highly regarded coming out of HS. Lightly recruited. Went to UOP. Transferred to a JC after one year. His dad knew Bobby Cremins, who hooked him up at Georgia Tech. Played with Kenny Anderson. Was a late bloomer whose career blossomed and far exceeded anyone's wildest expectations.

Brent is a different deal. He was interested in Cal. I recall talking with him about it. Details hazy at this point, but he too was a bit of a late bloomer. Lou looked at him a bit, but passed. He wasn't alone. Had much greater obvious upside than Jon (and Scooter, who played at Kansas), so this was certainly a mistake, in my opinion.

Maybe Lou just didn't want to deal with Rick, especially since he was hanging around the Bay Area (not so in Corvallis) and generally a problem.

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Brent was amazing. Some of the best passes I've ever seen, esp. as a Clipper.

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Ah, Oregon State! That jogged my memory enough to come up with a candidate for Winning Answer:

Lester Conner checks all the boxes for "biggest miss". Out of Oakland (and an Oakland JC, too?) in the early-mid 1980s, Conner was a TOP point guard recruit. He had a Cal connection, too, as his dad was my supervisor on campus (part-time job with Parking Services). He was considering us, but opted to go to Corvallis to play on one of Ralph Miller's awesome teams.

As a senior, he was conference P.O.Y., beating out our own Mark McNamara (who I see on SFCity's TOC list... yes he could've had success at Cal... and DID). McNamara had awesome stats, but Conner did a little of everything for the Beavers, as they won the Pac 10 and were one of the nation's top teams. IIRC, Conner was the 1st round pick of the Warriors and played in the NBA for several years.

helltopay1 said:

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How's this for the greatest miss of all time: Bill Russell didn't start for mcClymonds until his senior year. One day, a USF assistant coach ( an italian who prepped at Washington and played on the 1948 USF NIT championship team) went to McClymonds to scout a guard USF was considering for a scholarship offer. Russell started for McClymonds that day ( his fourth start) and Guidice was so impressed that he came back to his boss, Phil Woolpert, and said. " wow--mcClymonds has a center who is really raw but he seems to have some skills which can't be taught--he jumps through the roof, blocks shots and I think he's still growing. Forget about the guard--let's offer this kid." True story. To this day, I don't know if any other school offered Russell. Did he have the grades for Calk??Probably not, but I would love to know if nibs Price had Russell on his radar. Any thoughts??

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According to Russell, USF sent him a bus ticket to come to USF for a visiit. He got on the bus,made it to San Francisco, but failed to find the USF campus. He hopped onto another bus and went back home to Oakland. His second trip to San Francisco was more successful. He finally found the USF campus, and the rest is history. USF didn't even have their own gym when Russell played. Previously they had played in a rickety old gym on Page St., and then moved their games to Kezar. After all the success the Woolpert teams had, USF was able to raise enough money to build Memorial Gym on the USF campus..

This is a list from the Tournament of Champions All-Tournament teams from 1947 to 1972 who haven't been mentioned so far in the thread. It leaves out a lot of good players who played for teams of those years who did not qualify for the tournament. A lot of these players could have started and had success at Cal, IMO.

Russ Lawler, Salinas, Stanford
Ken Sears, Watsonville, Santa Clara, NBA
Clarence Grider, Lowell, Oregon State (lost an eye in a hunting accident, and didn't play)
Bob Dold, St Marys High, St Mary's
Walt Torrance, Grant Tech, UCLA (led PCC in scoring 22ppg in 1959 gave Cal fits
Joe Gardere, McClymonds, St Mary's
Cornell Green, El Cerrito, Utah State, NFL
Gene Womack, Poly High, St Mary's
Bill Simmons, Poly High, Oregon
Ed Thomas, McClymonds, USF
Jim Hadnot, McClymonds, (touted as the next Russell, didn't play college injured?)
Jim Brovelli, St Ignatius, USF
Pete Newell, Jr., St Ignatius, San Jose State
Erwin Mueller, Livermore, USF
Jim Tolliver, McClymonds, played for the pro Harlem Clowns
Russ Gumina, Sacred Heart, USF
Ron Tomsic, Fremont, Stanford
Bob Portman., SI, Creighton, (25 ppg), NBA
Don Griffin, Fremont, Stanford
Nate Williams, McClymonds, NBA (after HS, entered draft as hardship case)
Glenn Burke, Berkeley, MLB
Ruppert Jones, Berkeley, MLB standout
Clifton Pondexter, San Joaquin Memorial, Long Beach State
Francois Wise, Balboa, Long Beach State Hall of Fame
Cliff Robinson, Castlemont, USC, NBA
Mark McNamara, Del Mar, Santa Clara, NBA

UrsaMajor said:

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Wow. Playing with Luisetti (although I still think he's an a-hole for going to Stanfurd)...
When I was at Washington, I was a benchwarmer (if the rotation was 10 deep, I was 11th man...) but we had the funniest looking starting lineup: Across the front line we went 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 (pretty big for the 60's!) and our starting backcourt went 6-4, 5-3 (our Chinese point guard).

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You lost me with the comment about Luisetti. Not funny, if that was what you intended. He was an idol of mine from the cradle. I got to meet him in his Examiner Basketball School when I was 12. He was wonderful with kids.

SFCityBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Wow. Playing with Luisetti (although I still think he's an a-hole for going to Stanfurd)...
When I was at Washington, I was a benchwarmer (if the rotation was 10 deep, I was 11th man...) but we had the funniest looking starting lineup: Across the front line we went 6-6, 6-7, 6-8 (pretty big for the 60's!) and our starting backcourt went 6-4, 5-3 (our Chinese point guard).

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You lost me with the comment about Luisetti. Not funny, if that was what you intended. He was an idol of mine from the cradle. I got to meet him in his Examiner Basketball School when I was 12. He was wonderful with kids.

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Sorry, SFCity; I meant no disrespect to Luisetti, who I am sure was a fine man; although it is hard to admire a Furd...

As for your list, the name that leaps out from my memory was Jimmy Tolliver (called "Little Jimmy" at the time because he was so much smaller than "Jumpin' Joe" Ellis). Those were the days that the big battle in the TOC was for 2nd place, with Mac more or less penciled in for the championship.

Jim Hadnot (Providence)
Tom Cousy (uCorrectional)
Clemetson twins. . . Don and Doug (tFarm)