socaliganbear said:

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After the non moves in FB, I don't have faith meaningful action will be taken.

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hoops seems to be the loss leader now in "moves" . Hoops hasn't even made non moves

socaliganbear said:

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After the non moves in FB, I don't have faith meaningful action will be taken. Two

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Two different situations which could end-up with the same result for very different reasons. With football, the popular head coach took a strong position, and the AD's analysis is to ride it out. I have said my objections and you know, I'm in the same position, riding it out with Wilcox.

Basketball doesn't have the same financial upside as football, at least in the Pac 12, no one can say the coach is popular with a straight face (at some point you have to win a game to be popular) and you have an admittedly stupid contract that at a minimum gives Jones leverage to negotiate a large buy-out. If donors are not stepping-up because of the way the Jones hire was handled or for other reasons beyond the scope of this post, the economics could restrain the AD from doing much. We really don't know what Knowlton is doing (my guess is working on regime change taking place after the season), but there are scenarios in which very little happens.

My pipe dream is some billionaire writes a huge check and Knowlton's shows up at Larry K's house in a Brink's truck. Why Larry K? First, he can coach (thank you Monty), recognize talent and recruit the types of players that fit Cal. Second, he has been social with a lot of important Cal donors, and is a good fit with them. In case you guys know any billionaires, pass it on.

bearister said:

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"Since Haas Pavilion opened in 1999, Cal had never averaged fewer than 7,700 fans and six times averaged more than 10,000. Last season, the average dropped to 7,376. This season, it's at 4,893."*

OUCH!

*Im thinking the free hot dog and sleeve of Titleists to attract attendance is still a possibility.

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Those #s are astounding in an unsurprising way. I was working out at RSF this morning. I left just as the event crews were starting to show up. I live a hop, skip and jump away from campus and I have zero desire to go to the game today. Not because I know what the outcome will be (like Sebastabear, I went to every football game in 2013 and stayed to the end of each including the Big Game) but because I want to send a message loud and clear with my empty seat (among the thousands of empty seats) that this just isn't acceptable.

I also got a call from Theo earlier this week... we had a great talk. I won't go into details, but it's a reminder of just how bad this trainwreck is. I mean, it's really bad.

There is a stank on Cal Athletics right now and i think it's permeating across sports. The women's hoops game on Thursday against Stanford had a terribly disappointing crowd of just over 3,000. There is no excitement on campus for the other sports. Football mediocrity and historically awful hoops are a viral contagion. I have hope for football. None for basketball right now.

It's so frickin' depressing.

I will be there. I ran a calculation this morning regarding the odds that my attendance today will help Coach keep his job. I deemed the odds acceptable. Go Bears! Beat the Turds!*



*Or at least cover.

wifeisafurd said:

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socaliganbear said:

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After the non moves in FB, I don't have faith meaningful action will be taken. Two

---

Two different situations which could end-up with the same result for very different reasons. With football, the popular head coach took a strong position, and the AD's analysis is to ride it out. I have said my objections and you know, I'm in the same position, riding it out with Wilcox.

Basketball doesn't have the same financial upside as football, at least in the Pac 12, no one can say the coach is popular with a straight face (at some point you have to win a game to be popular) and you have an admittedly stupid contract that at a minimum gives Jones leverage to negotiate a large buy-out. If donors are not stepping-up because of the way the Jones hire was handled or for other reasons beyond the scope of this post, the economics could restrain the AD from doing much. We really don't know what Knowlton is doing (my guess is working on regime change taking place after the season), but there are scenarios in which very little happens.

My pipe dream is some billionaire writes a huge check and Knowlton's shows up at Larry K's house in a Brink's truck. Why Larry K? First, he can coach (thank you Monty), recognize talent and recruit the types of players that fit Cal. Second, he has been social with a lot of important Cal donors, and is a good fit with them. In case you guys know any billionaires, pass it on.

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Absolutely true. However, basketball does have a large financial downside. 3-4000/game as opposed to 8000 (with an average to above-average team) means a loss of more than 70,000 tickets. At a conservative average of $30/ticket, we're over $2 million in lost revenue (not counting ancilliary revenue such as concessions, etc.

The brand itself is also taking a hit. As is general morale as related to athletics and donor/potential donor interest.

bearister said:

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I will be there. I ran a calculation this morning regarding the odds that my attendance today will help Coach keep his job. I deemed the odds acceptable. Go Bears! Beat the Turds!*



*Or at least cover.

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check your calculator

TheFiatLux said:

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bearister said:

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"Since Haas Pavilion opened in 1999, Cal had never averaged fewer than 7,700 fans and six times averaged more than 10,000. Last season, the average dropped to 7,376. This season, it's at 4,893."*

OUCH!

*Im thinking the free hot dog and sleeve of Titleists to attract attendance is still a possibility.

---

Those #s are astounding in an unsurprising way. I was working out at RSF this morning. I left just as the event crews were starting to show up. I live a hop, skip and jump away from campus and I have zero desire to go to the game today. Not because I know what the outcome will be (like Sebastabear, I went to every football game in 2013 and stayed to the end of each including the Big Game) but because I want to send a message loud and clear with my empty seat (among the thousands of empty seats) that this just isn't acceptable.

I also got a call from Theo earlier this week... we had a great talk. I won't go into details, but it's a reminder of just how bad this trainwreck is. I mean, it's really bad.

There is a stank on Cal Athletics right now and i think it's permeating across sports. The women's hoops game on Thursday against Stanford had a terribly disappointing crowd of just over 3,000. There is no excitement on campus for the other sports. Football mediocrity and historically awful hoops are a viral contagion. I have hope for football. None for basketball right now.

It's so frickin' depressing.

---

Totally agree. Every AD is different, but my sense is Knowlton really cares about ticket sales and attendance (I mean they all care about it, but we've definitely had folks in that job who were far more focused on the TV revenue piece - Knowlton brings up ticket sales every time we've talked). I think he's getting the message from the fans pretty loud and clear.

UrsaMajor said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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socaliganbear said:

---

After the non moves in FB, I don't have faith meaningful action will be taken. Two

---

Two different situations which could end-up with the same result for very different reasons. With football, the popular head coach took a strong position, and the AD's analysis is to ride it out. I have said my objections and you know, I'm in the same position, riding it out with Wilcox.

Basketball doesn't have the same financial upside as football, at least in the Pac 12, no one can say the coach is popular with a straight face (at some point you have to win a game to be popular) and you have an admittedly stupid contract that at a minimum gives Jones leverage to negotiate a large buy-out. If donors are not stepping-up because of the way the Jones hire was handled or for other reasons beyond the scope of this post, the economics could restrain the AD from doing much. We really don't know what Knowlton is doing (my guess is working on regime change taking place after the season), but there are scenarios in which very little happens.

My pipe dream is some billionaire writes a huge check and Knowlton's shows up at Larry K's house in a Brink's truck. Why Larry K? First, he can coach (thank you Monty), recognize talent and recruit the types of players that fit Cal. Second, he has been social with a lot of important Cal donors, and is a good fit with them. In case you guys know any billionaires, pass it on.

---

Absolutely true. However, basketball does have a large financial downside. 3-4000/game as opposed to 8000 (with an average to above-average team) means a loss of more than 70,000 tickets. At a conservative average of $30/ticket, we're over $2 million in lost revenue (not counting ancilliary revenue such as concessions, etc.

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I would agree with that. At a minimum you want close to break even and a top tier Pac basketball program can also pay for a women's team in order to sustain gender equity.

wifeisafurd said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

socaliganbear said:

---

After the non moves in FB, I don't have faith meaningful action will be taken. Two

---

Two different situations which could end-up with the same result for very different reasons. With football, the popular head coach took a strong position, and the AD's analysis is to ride it out. I have said my objections and you know, I'm in the same position, riding it out with Wilcox.

Basketball doesn't have the same financial upside as football, at least in the Pac 12, no one can say the coach is popular with a straight face (at some point you have to win a game to be popular) and you have an admittedly stupid contract that at a minimum gives Jones leverage to negotiate a large buy-out. If donors are not stepping-up because of the way the Jones hire was handled or for other reasons beyond the scope of this post, the economics could restrain the AD from doing much. We really don't know what Knowlton is doing (my guess is working on regime change taking place after the season), but there are scenarios in which very little happens.

My pipe dream is some billionaire writes a huge check and Knowlton's shows up at Larry K's house in a Brink's truck. Why Larry K? First, he can coach (thank you Monty), recognize talent and recruit the types of players that fit Cal. Second, he has been social with a lot of important Cal donors, and is a good fit with them. In case you guys know any billionaires, pass it on.

---

Absolutely true. However, basketball does have a large financial downside. 3-4000/game as opposed to 8000 (with an average to above-average team) means a loss of more than 70,000 tickets. At a conservative average of $30/ticket, we're over $2 million in lost revenue (not counting ancilliary revenue such as concessions, etc.

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I would agree with that. At a minimum you want close to break even and a top tier Pac basketball program can also pay for a women's team in order to sustain gender equity.

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We'd have to have a Duke/Kansas type of men's team to pay for women's basketball. It's far and away the biggest money sink in Cal's AD budget.

Yogi Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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socaliganbear said:

---

After the non moves in FB, I don't have faith meaningful action will be taken. Two

---

Two different situations which could end-up with the same result for very different reasons. With football, the popular head coach took a strong position, and the AD's analysis is to ride it out. I have said my objections and you know, I'm in the same position, riding it out with Wilcox.

Basketball doesn't have the same financial upside as football, at least in the Pac 12, no one can say the coach is popular with a straight face (at some point you have to win a game to be popular) and you have an admittedly stupid contract that at a minimum gives Jones leverage to negotiate a large buy-out. If donors are not stepping-up because of the way the Jones hire was handled or for other reasons beyond the scope of this post, the economics could restrain the AD from doing much. We really don't know what Knowlton is doing (my guess is working on regime change taking place after the season), but there are scenarios in which very little happens.

My pipe dream is some billionaire writes a huge check and Knowlton's shows up at Larry K's house in a Brink's truck. Why Larry K? First, he can coach (thank you Monty), recognize talent and recruit the types of players that fit Cal. Second, he has been social with a lot of important Cal donors, and is a good fit with them. In case you guys know any billionaires, pass it on.

---

Absolutely true. However, basketball does have a large financial downside. 3-4000/game as opposed to 8000 (with an average to above-average team) means a loss of more than 70,000 tickets. At a conservative average of $30/ticket, we're over $2 million in lost revenue (not counting ancilliary revenue such as concessions, etc.

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I would agree with that. At a minimum you want close to break even and a top tier Pac basketball program can also pay for a women's team in order to sustain gender equity.

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We'd have to have a Duke/Kansas type of men's team to pay for women's basketball. It's far and away the biggest money sink in Cal's AD budget.

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That seems like a stretch. I always thought baseball was the biggest sink (larger roster, staff, travel, no revenue, etc.. You've probably actually seen the budget, whereas I'm just going by gut. Can you share the numbers?

BeachedBear said:

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That seems like a stretch. I always thought baseball was the biggest sink (larger roster, staff, travel, no revenue, etc.. You've probably actually seen the budget, whereas I'm just going by gut. Can you share the numbers?

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I don't have any confidential data, but the data that Cal reports to the government can be found at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

... and what Cal reports there is that women's hoops spent about $3.7 million in the most recently reported year and generated about $500,000 in revenue.

Baseball is not separately broken out in that report because all men's sports other than football and basketball are lumped into one figure, as are all women's sports other than basketball.

I assume that donations specifically designated for one sport are attributed as revenue for that sport. If that is the case, then baseball's deficit is partly offset by significant donations that are designated for baseball.

BearSD said:

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BeachedBear said:

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That seems like a stretch. I always thought baseball was the biggest sink (larger roster, staff, travel, no revenue, etc.. You've probably actually seen the budget, whereas I'm just going by gut. Can you share the numbers?

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I don't have any confidential data, but the data that Cal reports to the government can be found at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

... and what Cal reports there is that women's hoops spent about $3.7 million in the most recently reported year and generated about $500,000 in revenue.

Baseball is not separately broken out in that report because all men's sports other than football and basketball are lumped into one figure, as are all women's sports other than basketball.

I assume that donations specifically designated for one sport are attributed as revenue for that sport. If that is the case, then baseball's deficit is partly offset by significant donations that are designated for baseball.

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Additionally, Gottlieb's salary is somewhere north of $700,000 ($702,900 in 2017).

BearSD said:

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BeachedBear said:

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That seems like a stretch. I always thought baseball was the biggest sink (larger roster, staff, travel, no revenue, etc.. You've probably actually seen the budget, whereas I'm just going by gut. Can you share the numbers?

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I don't have any confidential data, but the data that Cal reports to the government can be found at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

... and what Cal reports there is that women's hoops spent about $3.7 million in the most recently reported year and generated about $500,000 in revenue.

Baseball is not separately broken out in that report because all men's sports other than football and basketball are lumped into one figure, as are all women's sports other than basketball.

I assume that donations specifically designated for one sport are attributed as revenue for that sport. If that is the case, then baseball's deficit is partly offset by significant donations that are designated for baseball.

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Thanks BearSD! Looks like in the year displayed, operating expenses for Baseball was $450k for 35 ptpts. For WBB it was ~$790K for 20 ptpts. Then there is coaches salaries' on top of that.