Pete Thamel On Cal and Wyking

graguna
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oskidunker said:

So you are counting on three freshmen, none rim protectors, to turn this mess around?

When you have an undersized team coaching is very important.
of course not.

Who do we lose ; Davis who hardly plays. Everyone gains a year of experience and we have 3 decent freshman coming in. That is a lot more depth and experience. Two of our last 3 loses were close with a few minutes to go. Next year, this team wins those games.

Who do we lose the year after? Austin. Who do we gain; most likely a few top 100 guys; given Grace's contacts and who CAL is targeting.

Things are improving ( slowly ) and next year should be a significant step forward.

Last year was awful and it was obvious this year wasn't going to be much better. Next year will be much better.
oskidunker
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If Jones Stays, some players will leave. No one wants to play on a team that cant win a game.
calbear80
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oskidunker said:

He said it. How else could he defend the hire?


I have heard this from different sources as well. Does anyone have an actual quote to media or was it mostly in private conversations?

Go Bears!
calbear80
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oskidunker said:

If Jones Stays, some players will leave. No one wants to play on a team that cant win a game.
+1
KoreAmBear
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hanky1 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

hanky1 said:

touchdownbears43 said:

The writer is absolutely right - WJ is the worst hire in the history of Cal athletics - it's not hate - it's based on actual numbers and results.


Don't tell that to Mike Williams. He still thinks criticism of Our Bball coach is racist.
When did Mike Williams say that? I don't recall hearing about it.


Williams suggested to various donors that the vitriol directed towards Wyking was due to racism.

LOL - never mind the fact that the previous guy was African American and welcomed by Cal w open arms. I thought Williams greatest strength was suppose to be his intelligence but him crying racism proves that he's an idiot.


If I were a big time donor I would want both Wyking and Baldwin gone. It's about ineptitude.
bluehenbear
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So with incoming players next year, "improvement" means what? from 0-18 or 1-17 to 5-13? Yay.
helltopay1
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dear graguna: i'm with you.
UrsaMajor
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bluehenbear said:

So with incoming players next year, "improvement" means what? from 0-18 or 1-17 to 5-13? Yay.
That's it. Given the experience and the incoming players, everyone expects next year to show improvement and the year following more improvement still--even w/ WJ as coach. THE question, however, is how much improvement. Moving to a .500 record in 2 more years, for instance, would be marked improvement, but a disaster for the program. Realistically, I don't see a lot of reason to believe that we will "turn the corner." Be a little better? Sure. Be good? Dubious.
KoreAmBear
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UrsaMajor said:

bluehenbear said:

So with incoming players next year, "improvement" means what? from 0-18 or 1-17 to 5-13? Yay.
That's it. Given the experience and the incoming players, everyone expects next year to show improvement and the year following more improvement still--even w/ WJ as coach. THE question, however, is how much improvement. Moving to a .500 record in 2 more years, for instance, would be marked improvement, but a disaster for the program. Realistically, I don't see a lot of reason to believe that we will "turn the corner." Be a little better? Sure. Be good? Dubious.
I can see with a good coach and some bigs coming in, we can actually be better than .500 in 2019-2020. The kids are starting to get it a little on D, and I am actually starting to see a little movement, screening and cutting in the half court set. I can see a spike in performance, (again, with a good coach) starting next season. In two years we can be an NCAA tournament team.
RedlessWardrobe
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calbear80 said:

oskidunker said:

If Jones Stays, some players will leave. No one wants to play on a team that cant win a game.
+1
Do you know that for a fact? Where did you get your info?

In any case, not a big deal. Any player possessing that attitude is not worth keeping anyway. The players' who have integrity will make it a point to improve the situation instead of quitting.
oskidunker
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Ridiculous. 0-19, no coaching but what the hell gut it out?? I would want to go somewhere to get good coaching so I could improve myself and be a part of a winning program.

How many more do we have to lose before you realize the kids are not getting any help? This is a very sad situation. In 33 years of buying season tickets I have never seen such a hopeless situation

But what the hell, the kids should stay and prove they have integrity. All hail blue and gold.
KoreAmBear
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RedlessWardrobe said:

calbear80 said:

oskidunker said:

If Jones Stays, some players will leave. No one wants to play on a team that cant win a game.
+1
Do you know that for a fact? Where did you get your info?

In any case, not a big deal. Any player possessing that attitude is not worth keeping anyway. The players' who have integrity will make it a point to improve the situation instead of quitting.
Don't agree with that. There is a limited window to play your basketball. We have some reasonably talented players here. I'm sure no one signed up to come here to be 0-19 in conference. I wouldn't judge them at all for their character (and certainly not call it an integrity issue) if they transferred to another program because Wyking stayed. Initially we thought Wyking getting fired would affect recruiting and current players negatively. It would seem now that if Wyking stays it would be worse in that regard.
RedlessWardrobe
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KoreAmBear said:

RedlessWardrobe said:

calbear80 said:

oskidunker said:

If Jones Stays, some players will leave. No one wants to play on a team that cant win a game.
+1
Do you know that for a fact? Where did you get your info?

In any case, not a big deal. Any player possessing that attitude is not worth keeping anyway. The players' who have integrity will make it a point to improve the situation instead of quitting.
Don't agree with that. There is a limited window to play your basketball. We have some reasonably talented players here. I'm sure no one signed up to come here to be 0-19 in conference. I wouldn't judge them at all for their character (and certainly not call it an integrity issue) if they transferred to another program because Wyking stayed. Initially we thought Wyking getting fired would affect recruiting and current players negatively. It would seem now that if Wyking stays it would be worse in that regard.
You make a good point. And I have no reason to doubt the character of our current players. I'm sure they are all extremely frustrated by now. But that leads us to another issue regarding the fire coach.

If you think the current players have sufficient talent with remaining upside potential, which scenario is more likely to lead players to transfer, Wyking being retained or let go?

Nobody knows for sure, but my guess with this group is that despite the constant losses, if Wyking is kept I believe they will not transfer. Again, its just a guess, and I'm sure several will argue that these guys transferring wouldn't be the worst that could happen. Me, I'd like to see them back for another year, regardless of who the coach is.
socaltownie
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Just to remind people that it CAN GET BETTER I would like to point out that the anteaters are, after this weekend, now 21-5. Up in Mizzula, Travis has the Grizzlies at 17-6. Both are leading their respective conferences.

The real worry is that both Russel and Travis are now beyond us......that is how AWFUL Williams butchered this hire.
KoreAmBear
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socaltownie said:

Just to remind people that it CAN GET BETTER I would like to point out that the anteaters are, after this weekend, now 21-5. Up in Mizzula, Travis has the Grizzlies at 17-6. Both are leading their respective conferences.

The real worry is that both Russel and Travis are now beyond us......that is how AWFUL Williams butchered this hire.
No, I think our current talent and recruits coming in (so long as we keep them) are very attractive for a new hire. I'd take either Travis or Russell. I hope Travis can also bring Theo back into the fold. I don't like how that was done.
KoreAmBear
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RedlessWardrobe said:

KoreAmBear said:

RedlessWardrobe said:

calbear80 said:

oskidunker said:

If Jones Stays, some players will leave. No one wants to play on a team that cant win a game.
+1
Do you know that for a fact? Where did you get your info?

In any case, not a big deal. Any player possessing that attitude is not worth keeping anyway. The players' who have integrity will make it a point to improve the situation instead of quitting.
Don't agree with that. There is a limited window to play your basketball. We have some reasonably talented players here. I'm sure no one signed up to come here to be 0-19 in conference. I wouldn't judge them at all for their character (and certainly not call it an integrity issue) if they transferred to another program because Wyking stayed. Initially we thought Wyking getting fired would affect recruiting and current players negatively. It would seem now that if Wyking stays it would be worse in that regard.
You make a good point. And I have no reason to doubt the character of our current players. I'm sure they are all extremely frustrated by now. But that leads us to another issue regarding the fire coach.

If you think the current players have sufficient talent with remaining upside potential, which scenario is more likely to lead players to transfer, Wyking being retained or let go?

Nobody knows for sure, but my guess with this group is that despite the constant losses, if Wyking is kept I believe they will not transfer. Again, its just a guess, and I'm sure several will argue that these guys transferring wouldn't be the worst that could happen. Me, I'd like to see them back for another year, regardless of who the coach is.
Yah you are right in terms of transfers and/or keeping those who signed, it's hard to say whether it's better for Wyking to stay or leave. But overall it's just better he moves on. Historically bad is not a good standard, no matter how you see it.
SFCityBear
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UrsaMajor said:

hanky1 said:

I think everyone who criticized calbear80 owes him an apology.
Not true, Hanky. Many who criticize calbear80 do owe him an apology, but many of the criticisms are not because people disagree, but because he refused for a long time to use the coach's name (which seemed petty) and because he posted the same thing over and over again.
I will criticize calbear80, and will continue to do so, because his contempt and near-hatred for one man, our coach, has made this season much more unenjoyable than it already was. With his constant badgering of the coach and anything positive said about the team or the coaching, he has succeeded in turning many Cal fans who might have wanted to watch and see what happens this year, into nega Bears. He has created so much negativity in the atmosphere here that few of us even notice the small improvement in our team and our players. It is pure propaganda, like listening to CNN or Fox, with all the negative blather about the other side, and never reporting anything favorable to that side. If calbear80 can't see any improvement, however small, then he is not being honest. He only considers wins and losses, and nothing else. To do that with perhaps the youngest most inexperienced team in Cal history, expecting first year coach to work miracles, is unfair to both. He does not realize that to win more games can come only by improving individual and team skills and improving team statistics. Make improvements in those, and wins will follow. He is just too impatient with such a young and very undersized team.

We start better more often, we can now play a half of basketball more often, and we are not getting blown out. We are allowing less points, forcing more turnovers, and making fewer TO's and more assists. We still get tense and lose control, but it comes later in games now, instead of all game long. We do not give up early. We are very close to getting a conference win. All it takes is to continue on this path, and work on our self confidence. Cal lost the OSU game on two terrible calls on Paris Austin. Mike Montgomery said the team has to protect against thinking, "Here we go again. What else can go wrong?" type of thinking. It is defeatist thinking, and calbear80 does nothing but reinforce that. And for that, I will always criticize the guy.
Yogi Bear
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SFCityBear said:

UrsaMajor said:

hanky1 said:

I think everyone who criticized calbear80 owes him an apology.
Not true, Hanky. Many who criticize calbear80 do owe him an apology, but many of the criticisms are not because people disagree, but because he refused for a long time to use the coach's name (which seemed petty) and because he posted the same thing over and over again.
I will criticize calbear80, and will continue to do so, because his contempt and near-hatred for one man, our coach, has made this season much more unenjoyable than it already was.
If the choice is between calbear80 and some wishy washy fan who tries to argue that Wyking deserves more time to prove himself, I take calbear80 and anyone like him 100 out of 100 times.
oskidunker
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Agree, reluctantly. Evidently Knowlton is getting some letters favoring keeping Jones
SFCityBear
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Yogi Bear said:

SFCityBear said:

UrsaMajor said:

hanky1 said:

I think everyone who criticized calbear80 owes him an apology.
Not true, Hanky. Many who criticize calbear80 do owe him an apology, but many of the criticisms are not because people disagree, but because he refused for a long time to use the coach's name (which seemed petty) and because he posted the same thing over and over again.
I will criticize calbear80, and will continue to do so, because his contempt and near-hatred for one man, our coach, has made this season much more unenjoyable than it already was.
If the choice is between calbear80 and some wishy washy fan who tries to argue that Wyking deserves more time to prove himself, I take calbear80 and anyone like him 100 out of 100 times.
There you go again, calling some Bear fan a derogatory name, just because he might disagree with you and
calbear80. What are you going to do if by some miracle, Wyking Jones stays, and the team gets much better? It's a hypothetical, but would you be then willing to admit the fan might have been right to give Wyking a chance?
KenBurnski
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Thank you. I thought I was losing my mind.
Yogi Bear
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SFCityBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

SFCityBear said:

UrsaMajor said:

hanky1 said:

I think everyone who criticized calbear80 owes him an apology.
Not true, Hanky. Many who criticize calbear80 do owe him an apology, but many of the criticisms are not because people disagree, but because he refused for a long time to use the coach's name (which seemed petty) and because he posted the same thing over and over again.
I will criticize calbear80, and will continue to do so, because his contempt and near-hatred for one man, our coach, has made this season much more unenjoyable than it already was.
If the choice is between calbear80 and some wishy washy fan who tries to argue that Wyking deserves more time to prove himself, I take calbear80 and anyone like him 100 out of 100 times.
There you go again, calling some Bear fan a derogatory name, just because he might disagree with you and
calbear80. What are you going to do if by some miracle, Wyking Jones stays, and the team gets much better? It's a hypothetical, but would you be then willing to admit the fan might have been right to give Wyking a chance?
One of us claimed someone had near-hatred of another human being. Another person referred to a theoretical wishy-washy Cal fan. Also, please note that I was bending over backwards to not talk about you specifically.

Who is it who was using deregatory language again?

Believe me when I tell you that I haven't called you a derogatory name. If I felt that this was the kind of forum where you could speak your mind without fear of reprisal, I'd have a few things to say about the kinds of posts you write and what my impression is of you personally based on what you write on these forums.
calbear80
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Maybe Yahoo Sports has a valid point as evidenced by the wire to wire 20+ point loss to a very mediocre USC at home last night.

Go Bears!
calbear80
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Bearprof said:

...In my view we need a better coach. Again we underestimate the importance of coaching...

+1
TheFiatLux
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helltopay1 said:

Dear Hanky: The previous Chancellor didn't want to hire a real AD because he really didn't support the major programs, so, Williams was the perfect 'don't rock the boat AD." We now have a real Chancellor and a real AD. In other words, we now have a license to hunt. Now comes the hard part. Making the right decisions most of the time.

Nicholas Dirks was the single biggest unmitigated disaster to ever happen to the University of California. I told him as much at a cocktail reception before he was fired. I used polite language, but I got my point across. He was a feckless, incompetent, over-his-head personification of the Peter Principle. But worse, he was a total coward who had absolutely no moral compass what-so-ever and would throw students he didn't agree with under the bus. He was an ******* of the highest order. He was a heinous stain on the history of the school.

But other than that....
socaltownie
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For those on the Russel Turner watch (I am) last night they beat the Kicker's Guachos at home by 13 to go to 22 and 5. I haven't checked the RPI lately - but they are trying to get themselves into a position where they do not need to win Big West Tournament to make the show. Meanwhile (cause I am a LOT less sold on him), Kyle's Dons escaped what would have been a brutal loss at Portland (brutal cause there is at least one other D1 program without a conference win and I remain unrealistically hopefully that we might one day get off the ofer.)
socaliganbear
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Turner v Decuire would be an interesting final 2 options.
socaltownie
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socaliganbear said:

Turner v Decuire would be an interesting final 2 options.
To be fair I would be happy (in order) with Turner, DeCuire and then Smith. I REALLY don't want an assistant - unless it is some poor SOB that has been under the wing of a guy for 20 years and was expecting him to retire and he hasn't.

socaliganbear
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socaltownie said:

socaliganbear said:

Turner v Decuire would be an interesting final 2 options.
To be fair I would be happy (in order) with Turner, DeCuire and then Smith. I REALLY don't want an assistant - unless it is some poor SOB that has been under the wing of a guy for 20 years and was expecting him to retire and he hasn't.


Yeah, the assistant route is tricky. Cal and UW both hired assistants. Of course, Hopkins was the HCIW at Syracuse behind a Hall of Famer. Wyking was some guy.
Yogi Bear
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socaltownie said:

For those on the Russel Turner watch (I am) last night they beat the Kicker's Guachos at home by 13 to go to 22 and 5. I haven't checked the RPI lately - but they are trying to get themselves into a position where they do not need to win Big West Tournament to make the show. Meanwhile (cause I am a LOT less sold on him), Kyle's Dons escaped what would have been a brutal loss at Portland (brutal cause there is at least one other D1 program without a conference win and I remain unrealistically hopefully that we might one day get off the ofer.)
It would upset me to no end if we hired the Kicker to replace Wyking.
helltopay1
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Dear Yogi; If Cal hired the "kicker", I would go on a kicking spree with such ferocity that no FBI swat team would dare intervene. In addition, I would personally boycott every Cal game at Haas for thge next hundred years. Being deceased would not deter me. Some things are more important than sleep. I would not hire the 'kicker" to coach a third grade CYO team. We used to beat up guys like the "kicker" on the playground because, well, just because. Sometimes weasels look like weasels. Please see Rod Rosenstein. We used to beat up weasels like Rosenstein on thge playground too. Nobody sued us.
71Bear
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touchdownbears43 said:

The writer is absolutely right - WJ is the worst hire in the history of Cal athletics - it's not hate - it's based on actual numbers and results.
Actually, using numbers and results alone, Bob Bockrath was a far worse hire. He single-handedly destroyed a golden opportunity for Cal. The likes of which will never come again....
calbear80
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Mike Williams was worse than Bob Bockrath.

Go Bears!
Yogi Bear
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helltopay1 said:

Please see Rod Rosenstein.
SMH
CAL4LIFE
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Yogi Bear said:

socaltownie said:

For those on the Russel Turner watch (I am) last night they beat the Kicker's Guachos at home by 13 to go to 22 and 5. I haven't checked the RPI lately - but they are trying to get themselves into a position where they do not need to win Big West Tournament to make the show. Meanwhile (cause I am a LOT less sold on him), Kyle's Dons escaped what would have been a brutal loss at Portland (brutal cause there is at least one other D1 program without a conference win and I remain unrealistically hopefully that we might one day get off the ofer.)
It would upset me to no end if we hired the Kicker to replace Wyking.


Spaulding!
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