SFCityBear said:

---

And when you look at a guy like Conor Vanover, who do we have who is capable enough to play against him and make Vanover better?

---

He had Bol Bol in high school as a skilled 7-footer.

Now he has a variety of body types and styles to work against. Kelly has good strength and post moves for Connor to work on defending the low block. For defending the rim he gets to try and stop Sueing who's proven to be a very good finisher, as well as the quick and athletic JHD, McNeill and Austin, who can at least get to the rim, even if they aren't so good at finishing.

Working against Vanover is good for them too.

It's really hard to question Connor's improvement this year. He's progressing far better than any of us expected.

Civil Bear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

Another point I would make is that we don't have adequate players on the bench for the starters to scrimmage against. And when you look at a guy like Conor Vanover, who do we have who is capable enough to play against him and make Vanover better? Who would be guarding Vanover in practice? Anticevich? Davis? Kelly? Give me a break. I like Anticevich, but he is more of a project than Vanover is. They are both slow, but Vanover already has more skills and basketball IQ than Anticevich. He knows much of what he needs to do on the court. The biggest thing he needs is strength. He seems to be making improvement, as in the last three games, and if he is, he is doing it by learning from his coaching. Kelly might be able to teach him a little about post moves, but that is all I can think of. The biggest players on this team can not teach him much, so I would say that if he is improving, it is by himself with some good coaching.

---

I guess he should have gone to Kentucky.

---

I'm glad he didn't.

I never noticed that Martin could coach. Certainly the improvement under Jones is better than any improvement witnessed under Martin.

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

Here is something even more bleak.....2-34 over two seasons under Jones in conference....(well not yet but I would take bets)....Yeah, let's give him another season...if we're lucky, he will then be around 6-48 in conference which should entice a hoard of talent to sign the LOI.......

cal83dls79 said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

---

Make that Jaylen Brown and/or Ivan Rabb 18 and 0. Cuonzo had little to do with it other than recruiting them.

bearister said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

---

Make that Jaylen Brown and/or Ivan Rabb 18 and 0. Cuonzo had little to do with it other than recruiting them.

---

This comment reminds me that whenever fans decide they love a coach, they'll buy whatever he's selling.

During Cuonzo's last year, if you said anything negative about his coaching on this board, you'd get jumped for even thinking it.

I got called an idiot for calling him a mid tier p12 coach. Now he we all accept he was a mediocre coach.

A year or two from now Wyking will be the butt of every Cal futility joke after he's eventually fired. Even from those who back him today.

socaliganbear said:

---

bearister said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

---

Make that Jaylen Brown and/or Ivan Rabb 18 and 0. Cuonzo had little to do with it other than recruiting them.

---

This comment reminds me that whenever fans decide they love a coach, they'll buy whatever he's selling.

During Cuonzo's last year, if you said anything negative about his coaching on this board, you'd get jumped for even thinking it.

I got called an idiot for calling him a mid tier p12 coach. Now he we all accept he was a mediocre coach.

A year or two from now Wyking will be the butt of every Cal futility joke after he's eventually fired. Even from those who back him today.

---

You could hardly say a negative word about Holmoe on this board before 2001. And that's the truth.

Yogi Bear said:

---

socaliganbear said:

---

bearister said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

---

Make that Jaylen Brown and/or Ivan Rabb 18 and 0. Cuonzo had little to do with it other than recruiting them.

---

This comment reminds me that whenever fans decide they love a coach, they'll buy whatever he's selling.

During Cuonzo's last year, if you said anything negative about his coaching on this board, you'd get jumped for even thinking it.

I got called an idiot for calling him a mid tier p12 coach. Now he we all accept he was a mediocre coach.

A year or two from now Wyking will be the butt of every Cal futility joke after he's eventually fired. Even from those who back him today.

---

You could hardly say a negative word about Holmoe on this board before 2001. And that's the truth.

---

I'm having PTHD (post traumatic Holmoe disorder) flashbacks right now reading through the painfully obtuse rationalizations in this thread.

socaliganbear said:

---

bearister said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

---

Make that Jaylen Brown and/or Ivan Rabb 18 and 0. Cuonzo had little to do with it other than recruiting them.

---

This comment reminds me that whenever fans decide they love a coach, they'll buy whatever he's selling.

During Cuonzo's last year, if you said anything negative about his coaching on this board, you'd get jumped for even thinking it.

I got called an idiot for calling him a mid tier p12 coach. Now he we all accept he was a mediocre coach.

A year or two from now Wyking will be the butt of every Cal futility joke after he's eventually fired. Even from those who back him today.

---

That's not what I recall. Most here were questioning his recruiting (got lucky with Rabb - who brought Brown). Also, there was almost unanimous disdain for the offensive game plans and poor use of talent. Finally, there was a Volunteer fan or two - who pointed out to us that this was all too familiar to them.

But it WAS generally mixed. Unlike these days where it is just different levels of holmoe-phobic ranting.

bearchamp said:

---

I never noticed that Martin could coach. Certainly the improvement under Jones is better than any improvement witnessed under Martin.

---

2018/2019 Opponent fg% - 50.2% (ranked 351 out of 351 - dead last)

2016/2017 opponent fg% - 40% (ranked #15 in the country)

And yes, that's the year without Jaylen brown. They had guys like rabb, singer, bird, Moore, Mullins, okoroh on that team. Do you see any elite defensive talent there? (Maybe okoroh)

Oh and yes, the year before they had a top 20 defense as well.

Say what you want about cuonzo, but he could teach defense.

socaliganbear said:

---

bearister said:

---

cal83dls79 said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

Martin 18-0 at Home
Jones headed to 0-18. end of story. But if you like Jones, go for it.

---

stark stat. But I have been told that it's real easy to turn around a basketball program. I'll say.

---

Make that Jaylen Brown and/or Ivan Rabb 18 and 0. Cuonzo had little to do with it other than recruiting them.

---

This comment reminds me that whenever fans decide they love a coach, they'll buy whatever he's selling.

During Cuonzo's last year, if you said anything negative about his coaching on this board, you'd get jumped for even thinking it.

I got called an idiot for calling him a mid tier p12 coach. Now he we all accept he was a mediocre coach.

A year or two from now Wyking will be the butt of every Cal futility joke after he's eventually fired. Even from those who back him today.

---

Who is backing him today? I don't know of any in this forum, except maybe those who are asking that he be allowed to finish the season and maybe judge him at that point. If it is backing, it is pretty weak backing.

SFCityBear said:

---

Who is backing him today? I don't know of any in this forum, except maybe those who are asking that he be allowed to finish the season and maybe judge him at that point. If it is backing, it is pretty weak backing.

---

Definitely let him finish the season, and hopefully people will stop being so nasty and negative.

Whether to fire him after the season or give him one more chance to prove himself depends on who else would be available and interested. We might be throwing away about $3 million, with no guarantee of finding someone significantly better.

I like UCI's [url=https://www.coachesdatabase.com/russell-turner/][/url]Russell Turner (6 years a Warrior's assistant under Monty and Nelson and very successful at UCI), but he might want to stay another year for his current, strong junior class to finish their run. If he's open to a move after next year, then we could certainly live with Jones another year.

Can not live with Jones another year. Anyone would be better but if you like what he has done, I respect that.