Well this is what happened to Chuck Connors in Branded.

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="" alt="7-E1-A1938-9-C5-D-4-F60-8-DFE-87627-CF9-D987" border="0"></a>

Dearcalbear80: Do less wondering and more thinking and you'll be fine. also, you need to fire your therapist.

calbear80 said:

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SFCityBear, you don't need to go to practices, etc. All you need to do is look at the results.

Are you happy with 5-33 (13% winning percentage)? Remember, the guy had two senior 7 foot Cebters last year with combined six years of Power 5/6 starting experience.

Go Bears!

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Calbear80: way to reply to a thoughtful and thorough post with a reflexive, shallow post.

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="" alt="BC35-F4-F8-D687-4-ACE-BB31-F83-B8-E796719" border="0"></a>

Just received an email from Knowlton. Basically said he will decide in the next few weeks how the basketball prigram will move forward. Said he is getting emails on both sides and cant make everyone happy.

My guess is maybe he is after a coach still playing and wants to wait until he can announce a replacement so we wont lose recruits or existing players. Hard to believe he is still undecided.

Or
Maybe like when Dykes was fired they want to gauge renewals for a few weeks, which makes no sense to me. Don't expect an announcement soon.

If he hasn't made a decision yet, he's not going to fire him. Winning basketball doesn't matter to him I guess.

71Bear said:

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An AD should never demand that a head coach terminate the contract of an assistant. It happens but only at schools that are hopelessly dysfunctional (Cal is dysfunctional but not hopeless).

As for hoops, I tend to err on the side of keep the guy if there is any chance of redemption. Jones is off to a very rough start but can anyone say conclusively that he cannot turn the program around. Personally, I do not believe anyone can make that statement. Keep him for another year.

My take on Knowlton - a very thoughtful, deliberate guy who probably agonizes over which tie to wear to work every day.

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Hear Hear on your first point! Old Blues will recall how Roger Theder had his arm twisted by Dave Maggard to hire Mouse Davis as his OC in 1981. How did that work out?

Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if it's more likely that Knowlton and Wilcox had an end-of-year conversation that went something like this:
KNOWLTON: Well, Justin, what was the most disappointing aspect of the team's performance this year?

WILCOX: No question - the offense was a disappointment.

KNOWLTON: Based on my observation, I agree. What are you going to do about it?

WILCOX: I don't have an answer, yet. I think I have a good group of assistants, and a good enough group of athletes that we should have been more productive.

KNOWLTON: Fair enough. Just remember the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So, if you believe what you just told me, something else needs to change. It's your call.

I confess, I have a much harder time imagining a conversation between Knowlton and Wyking since the problems are more numerous . . .

socaliganbear said:

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If he hasn't made a decision yet, he's not going to fire him. Winning basketball doesn't matter to him I guess.

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I don't think that is NECESSARILY true. Lets say his "list in the desk drawer" has both Travis and Turner on it (yes, yes, I know, his wife is a big wig doctor. Guess what. UCSF is a medical school and there are a ton of other great hospitals all over the region. And UCI - as a COunty Hospital - frankly is not all that). If YOU were hiring would YOU not want to see how they did this week? I would. The difference between pulling the trigger now vs. pulling it on Friday/Saturday is minimal. Plus giving in emotional.

You shouldn't be having in depth discussions with coaches whose programs are in the dance. I can see the benefits of waiting _IF_ you are going to pull the trigger. However, you don't need to ponder this. So if he was being retained you should make the statement now, suffer the barbs, and help coach recruit. The fact that he isn't giving an endorsement means, I think, Jones is gone.

All of the speculation is just that--speculation. FWIW (very little, I admit) knowing Jim Knowlton as I do, I actually take him at his word--he's still evaluating the situation. Obviously, he's aware that the program is a mess right now, but there are many factors: finances, the current and committed players, the timing, etc. that need to be taken into consideration. He may very well be deciding that WJ needs to go and have in mind a list of replacement candidates. He may also believe that one more year, even if it means sacrificing the performance that year is necessary. Bottom line: I believe he is doing what he said: a thorough evaluation.

I think Knowlton's wording suggests he is open to replacing Jones. Anything short of a full embrace of Jones is a sign to recruits and others that a change may be happening.

There is little if anything to be gained by firing a coach before having a replacement locked up - or at least a good list of very serious candidates who have expressed interest in the job.

Serious conversations with coaches at mid-majors can start in earnest after this weekend - when their teams are done for the year.

JK should be waiting at this point, especially because the best candidates, those that we really should want, are still engaged in the season. Even Pat Forde mentions that DeCuire should be the coach at Cal. Travis just seems like the most logical choice to me at this juncture, if he'll come.

parentswerebears said:

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JK should be waiting at this point, especially because the best candidates, those that we really should want, are still engaged in the season. Even Pat Forde mentions that DeCuire should be the coach at Cal. Travis just seems like the most logical choice to me at this juncture.

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The winters can be rough, but the skiing in Montana is very nice.
In the summer there is lots of good fishing and back country to explore.
Land and housing is affordable.
Less aggravation, and they have Bears.

Wait and see how the Grizzlies do against the Meatchicken.

If the AD is putting out feelers to prospective coaches, the staff will know it and that's not a good position to put them in. Nor is it fair to them when they're still being paid to manage the program, recruit, etc. The college basketball coaching community is a small world and word travels fast. If you're gonna make a change, be decisive and make it; then, you can start contacting potential replacement candidates. If you're not gonna make change, as seems likely here, then make that clear as well. A gray area doesn't benefit anyone at all, including the existing staff, a potential new staff, current players and recruits.

Agreed. The let-go-or-endorse decision needs to get resolved in the next 10 days, probably even this week. Bottom line, not that many people on the face of the earth really care (and what does that say?), but it's going to start to look bad in another couple of days or so.

TheSouseFamily said:

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If the AD is putting out feelers to prospective coaches, the staff will know it and that's not a good position to put them in. Nor is it fair to them when they're still being paid to manage the program, recruit, etc. The college basketball coaching community is a small world and word travels fast. If you're gonna make a change, be decisive and make it; then, you can start contacting potential replacement candidates. If you're not gonna make change, as seems likely here, then make that clear as well. A gray area doesn't benefit anyone at all, including the existing staff, a potential new staff, current players and recruits.

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It is an interesting question. CLEARLY it happens though because we have all seen a coach gets canned and someone pulls an amazing hire out of their ass if they had only a day or two to get it done. No way some of those hires don't happen with a bit more runway.

Souse, you are one of my favorite posters here on BI, but this post reminds me of Bloody Mary Mondays! Here I go, sentence by sentence:

If the AD is putting out feelers to prospective coaches, the staff will know it and that's not a good position to put them in. They've known this since January. Pretty much everyone has. Heck, some would argue that Grace has been auditioning.


Nor is it fair to them when they're still being paid to manage the program, recruit, etc. And they should expect to continue to manage the program, if they are being compensated. But fair? Absolutely. These aren't tenured positions. The expectation is that in revenue sports, the AD has a short list ready at all times.

The college basketball coaching community is a small world and word travels fast. Yep. See my post above. Regardless of Knowlton's actions, the community of which you are speaking has assumed for months now that there would be a job opening in Berkeley at the end of season. If you don't think coaches have been telling rising assistants to send out feelers to Knowlton, then have another Bloody!


If you're gonna make a change, be decisive and make it; then, you can start contacting potential replacement candidates. Agree with the first part, but don't announce it until you have completed the second part. Because if none of the replacements are willing, you may need to reconsider your decision - so why create the potential to walk back a major mistake.


If you're not gonna make change, as seems likely here, then make that clear as well. This is reasonable, which is why I'm confident that Knowlton is NOT confident in Jones and considers retention the fall back position.


A gray area doesn't benefit anyone at all, including the existing staff, a potential new staff, current players and recruits. It actually benefits potential new staff and recruits. Furthermore, its really the status quo for existing staff and players. So makes sense to keep it gray for a little while longer. Finally, an announcement to retain Jones will have significant repercussions for Knowlton. He needs time to get his ducks in a row.

All fair points. SCT and Beached.

I think the number of quick hires though that reflect obvious behind-the-scenes communications are special exceptions mostly. Most likely, these are cases where the school had their eyes set on one guy and got him. But that's not often the case. Most schools do t get their first choice and have to go through a lot of options before they find one.

And Beached, I'm digging the idea of Bloody Mary Mondays. Need more of those. As for your point about the world of college basketball knowing we'd make a change, I'm not so sure of that. Heck, I'm not even sure if Knowlton even knows that right now. There's a big difference in being on a public hot seat in January (or anytime) and finishing the season and entering the firing/hiring season in March/April. Part of the reason why I think decisiveness is important is because I don't think it's likely we'd fire Coach Jones if we got interest from candidate X, Y or Z but keep him if we didn't. At least I hope that's not where the thinking is. A coach should be in or out.

But you're right that there are probably some communications going on behind the scenes but I think the timing matters. To do that now when coaches are being let go would just look bad. I think if any of us learned that our boss was chatting with people about taking over our jobs, that relationship would almost certainly be unsalvageable. Plus, it's just not necessary. If we want to make a change, just do it. No need to be cute about it and I don't think Knowlton is the kind of guy who would be.

By the way, no rush here. Yes, other schools are making their intentions known immediately after the season ends but there won't be a ton of movement during the tournament anyway. A couple of weeks is not an issue.

parentswerebears said:

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JK should be waiting at this point, especially because the best candidates, those that we really should want, are still engaged in the season. Even Pat Forde mentions that DeCuire should be the coach at Cal. Travis just seems like the most logical choice to me at this juncture, if he'll come.

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I disagree with needing to wait and the rationale. First of all, ADs are communicating with candidates in season all the time. Look at Cuonzo. He was hired by Mizzou the day after we lost our last game. Did Mizzou call him on his way home to gauge interest, do interviews, negotiations, Martin has conversations with his family and etc, and all that happens in a few hours? Or possibly did those conversations happen while he was still working here?

Secondly, most schools (and pro teams) announce a firing without having a new coach lined up and ready to announce. Occasionally you have a situation where you're only going to fire if you get a particular candidate but generally you fire when you've decided the current person isn't the right one.

I think this is spot on

In reference to the above three or four posts, here are the key question:

. What has Knowlton been doing for the last few months?

. Did Knowlton not see the situation with MBB and it's 2-17 2017-18 Pac-12 record when he took the job?

. Did Knowlton not pay attention when the team lost 16 in a row this year and 23 Pac-12 games in a row?

. Did Knowlton fail to see the dwindling attendance at the MBB games?

. Did Knowlton fail to notice the Change.Org petition by 30 year season ticket holders?

If Knowlton is doing his "evaluation" only now, then the heading of this this thread has a lot of merit.

Go Bears!

socaliganbear said:

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Prediction:

We keep him.
Out realistic options get better jobs this year.
He wins games in the low teens next year, but it's improvement. He's fired after failing to make the NIT after 4 years. We try to rebuild our dead brand two years from now.

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Unfortunately, I think this is spot on.

And the team plays games in front of USC or furd sized crowds. Recruits lining up to get their shot at this, we hire Ernie Kent, who is a vast improvement and we continue to be 12th place in the Pac. D2, here we come.

socaliganbear said:

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Prediction:

We keep him.
Out realistic options get better jobs this year.
He wins games in the low teens next year, but it's improvement. He's fired after failing to make the NIT after 4 years. We try to rebuild our dead brand two years from now.

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This is my predication as well, with one important addition. Next year we'll win around 15 games and the apologists will point to "progress". However, he'll be in year three of a five year contract and he "simply can't recruit when he's only assured of two more years!!", so he'll get an extension. This being Cal, the extension will likely be incredibly unfavorable for Cal. When he barely gets above .500 in year four, he'll get fired, only this time the buyout will be even larger. Look no further than Tedford and Dykes for comparison.

TheSouseFamily said:

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All fair points. SCT and Beached.

I think the number of quick hires though that reflect obvious behind-the-scenes communications are special exceptions mostly. Most likely, these are cases where the school had their eyes set on one guy and got him. But that's not often the case. Most schools do t get their first choice and have to go through a lot of options before they find one.

And Beached, I'm digging the idea of Bloody Mary Mondays. Need more of those. As for your point about the world of college basketball knowing we'd make a change, I'm not so sure of that. Heck, I'm not even sure if Knowlton even knows that right now. There's a big difference in being on a public hot seat in January (or anytime) and finishing the season and entering the firing/hiring season in March/April. Part of the reason why I think decisiveness is important is because I don't think it's likely we'd fire Coach Jones if we got interest from candidate X, Y or Z but keep him if we didn't. At least I hope that's not where the thinking is. A coach should be in or out.

But you're right that there are probably some communications going on behind the scenes but I think the timing matters. To do that now when coaches are being let go would just look bad. I think if any of us learned that our boss was chatting with people about taking over our jobs, that relationship would almost certainly be unsalvageable. Plus, it's just not necessary. If we want to make a change, just do it. No need to be cute about it and I don't think Knowlton is the kind of guy who would be.

By the way, no rush here. Yes, other schools are making their intentions known immediately after the season ends but there won't be a ton of movement during the tournament anyway. A couple of weeks is not an issue.

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Like I said, one of my favorite posters. Good points. A couple of clarifications for the benefit of fruitful discussion.

1. As for the basketball world KNOWING we'd make a change. Perhaps not, but it is clearly expected that Cal will entertain a coaching upgrade. Knowlton will have a bigger explanation for retaining Jones than replacing him. I think that drives part of when he announces anything.

2. I'm not suggesting that termination would occur if there is merely interest. Only if there is agreement from a promising candidate.

3. I'm confident that these discussions have been and currently are going on. The reason for delaying an announcement has nothing to do with Jones and staff, but everything to do with the replacement - who is currently preparing his team for a tournament. Once an announcement is made that Jones is gone - the rumor mill will hit THE CANDIDATE COACH - even if he is not named (yes - I have confirmed that we are NOT in discussions with Becky Hammon). That is truly unfair to the candidate coach and his team.

4. I think we're only talking days (a small number of weeks). Its not like I expect an announcement on April 27th. But an announcement this week would only be fruitful if Knowlton is all in on Jones - and I don't think he is.

Ernie Kent is indeed a vast improvement over the current coach even if Ernie is the second worst coach in the Pac-12.

. Ernie Kent has won over 60 Pac-15 games (an average of around 6 per a year). Can someone please look up the correct numbers?

. Jones has won a grand total of 5 Pac-12 games (an average of 2.5 per a year).

Go Bears!

I hear ya, Beached and I certainly don't disagree with anything you've said. Obviously, most of us don't know what Knowlton is thinking and coaching searches can take a variety of different forms. Boredom up above mentioned Cuonzo's hiring at Missouri which was obviously a result of back-channel communications that had been going on for some time. Seems like Missouri locked into Cuonzo and vice versa very early on. Then you have searches that are more open-ended. The Oregon search that ended with Altman took a month a half and they only landed on him because they whiffed on about 4 or 5 other coaches like Few, Kruger and Izzo. If we did make a change, I suspect our search would be more like the latter where it's open-ended with lots of guys approached. At least I hope it would be. Seems unlikely that there might be one guy that we've had our sights set on from the beginning but you never know.

All that said, I think we end up taking a pass on a coaching change this year. Between the financial considerations, the amount of (potentially) returning minutes and the brief glimpse of success we had down the stretch will likely be enough to give it another year. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case.

socaliganbear said:

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Prediction:

We keep him.
Out realistic options get better jobs this year.
He wins games in the low teens next year, but it's improvement. He's fired after failing to make the NIT after 4 years. We try to rebuild our dead brand two years from now.

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Sadly that is pretty "typiCAL" and how we have often rolled in these situations. It really is a shame that all the good work done by Monty (and honestly also Braun) have been blown completely up and thrown into the dumpster. Is what it is......

TheSouseFamily said:

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I hear ya, Beached and I certainly don't disagree with anything you've said. Obviously, most of us don't know what Knowlton is thinking and coaching searches can take a variety of different forms. Boredom up above mentioned Cuonzo's hiring at Missouri which was obviously a result of back-channel communications that had been going on for some time. Seems like Missouri locked into Cuonzo and vice versa very early on. Then you have searches that are more open-ended. The Oregon search that ended with Altman took a month a half and they only landed on him because they whiffed on about 4 or 5 other coaches like Few, Kruger and Izzo. If we did make a change, I suspect our search would be more like the latter where it's open-ended with lots of guys approached. At least I hope it would be. Seems unlikely that there might be one guy that we've had our sights set on from the beginning but you never know.

All that said, I think we end up taking a pass on a coaching change this year. Between the financial considerations, the amount of (potentially) returning minutes and the brief glimpse of success we had down the stretch will likely be enough to give it another year. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case.

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We beat Washington on a night they slept walked and then beat the #10 and #11 schools in the conference. That is NOT a glimpse of success. It was like thinking that there are pretty trees in a graveyard. There might be but it is still a place you put dead bodies in the ground to decompose.

The flip side is that with the returning minutes the open scholarships it isn't a BAD situation to be walking into. Not sure we will get a to-fer like Kingsley but we might.

We won't be a situation like Martin (unless there is a mystery candidate who, for reasons that are completely unknowable, wants to coach at Cal [oh, I get it, KERR is sick of getting into screaming matches with Green and wants to coach the college game] but we also will not be like Oregon. We are not going to do a dance with candidates that are out of reach. We don't have that kind of Cash. But if JK hasn't reached out to both Turner and Travis (and I would also put in Randy B.) he isn't doing his #1 job - improving Top line performance by nurturing wins in the 2 revenue sports.

socaltownie said:

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We beat Washington on a night they slept walked and then beat the #10 and #11 schools in the conference. That is NOT a glimpse of success. It was like thinking that there are pretty trees in a graveyard. There might be but it is still a place you put dead bodies in the ground to decompose.

The flip side is that with the returning minutes the open scholarships it isn't a BAD situation to be walking into. Not sure we will get a to-fer like Kingsley but we might.

We won't be a situation like Martin (unless there is a mystery candidate who, for reasons that are completely unknowable, wants to coach at Cal [oh, I get it, KERR is sick of getting into screaming matches with Green and wants to coach the college game] but we also will not be like Oregon. We are not going to do a dance with candidates that are out of reach. We don't have that kind of Cash. But if JK hasn't reached out to both Turner and Travis (and I would also put in Randy B.) he isn't doing his #1 job - improving Top line performance by nurturing wins in the 2 revenue sports.

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+1

socaltownie said:

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We beat Washington on a night they slept walked and then beat the #10 and #11 schools in the conference. That is NOT a glimpse of success. It was like thinking that there are pretty trees in a graveyard. There might be but it is still a place you put dead bodies in the ground to decompose.

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You crazy! That five point loss to Colorado in the Pac-12 tournament showed even more success! Colorado, the fifth place team in the league who wasn't even close to making the tourney, led us the entire game from the 12:11 mark in the first half., but we only lost by five! Now that is progress!! (Insert sarcasm emjoi here).

Can anyone recall a program that told fans they were evaluating the coach and would not know for two weeks if he would be fired and then kept him? Under What auspices?

What are the reasons for keeping him?
Why was there no initial support?
What the hell must recruits be thinking?

oskidunker said:

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Can anyone recall a program that told fans they were evaluating the coach and would not know for two weeks if he would be fired and then kept him? Under What auspices?

What are the reasons for keeping him?
Why was there no initial support?
What the hell must recruits be thinking?

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If the coach, the entire team and all the recruits leave, I will wager you one Bitcoin we still have a better record the next two years than the past two.....and I am a big fan of our players... but if you are desirous of making me toss and turn all night worrying about the questions you pose, you are going to have to bring more to the table than 5 league wins in 36 games.

bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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Can anyone recall a program that told fans they were evaluating the coach and would not know for two weeks if he would be fired and then kept him? Under What auspices?

What are the reasons for keeping him?
Why was there no initial support?
What the hell must recruits be thinking?

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If the coach, the entire team and all the recruits leave, I will wager you one Bitcoin we still have a better record the next two years than the past two.....and I am a big fan of our players... but if you are desirous of making me toss and turn all night worrying about the questions you pose, you are going to have to bring more to the table than 5 league wins in 36 games.

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+1 except it is 5 wins in 38 games against Pac-12 opponents (13% winning percentage). I know it is a hirrible record no matter how you look at it.

Go Bears!

HKBear97! said:

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socaliganbear said:

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Prediction:

We keep him.
Out realistic options get better jobs this year.
He wins games in the low teens next year, but it's improvement. He's fired after failing to make the NIT after 4 years. We try to rebuild our dead brand two years from now.

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This is my predication as well, with one important addition. Next year we'll win around 15 games and the apologists will point to "progress". However, he'll be in year three of a five year contract and he "simply can't recruit when he's only assured of two more years!!", so he'll get an extension. This being Cal, the extension will likely be incredibly unfavorable for Cal. When he barely gets above .500 in year four, he'll get fired, only this time the buyout will be even larger. Look no further than Tedford and Dykes for comparison.

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Holmoe and Braun too.