calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

BearSD said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Pat Chun >>> Jim Knowlton. At least when it comes to hiring basketball coaches.

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

71Bear said:

---

BearSD said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Pat Chun >>> Jim Knowlton. At least when it comes to hiring basketball coaches.

---

Heck, every AD in the conference is better than Cal's (with the obvious exception of Lynn Swann, of course).

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

BearSD said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Pat Chun >>> Jim Knowlton. At least when it comes to hiring basketball coaches.

---

Heck, every AD in the conference is better than Cal's (with the obvious exception of Lynn Swann, of course).

---

Does Swann actually run that department. It always seemed to me that USC kept a figure head to be the face of things while others handled the actual business.

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

calumnus said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

Yep. All smart AD's have a list of prospective coaches in case their guy(s) either leave for a better coaching offer, quit the profession or do a crappy job. I read a story once years ago about an AD (Frank Broyles of Arkansas? I'm not certain). He said he always kept such a list in his vest pocket.

It is too bad that Cal hired a guy who was fully unprepared for an AD position at the P5 level.

---

BearSD said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Pat Chun >>> Jim Knowlton. At least when it comes to hiring basketball coaches.

---

calumnus said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

socaltownie said:

---

calumnus said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

Your assumption is that he didn't and hadn't found out that our choices that were at the top of the list were....."
"not good".

Team travis would have offered hope. But I completely understand this hire _IF_ due diligence was really done and JK heard a lot about competing in a very dirty SEC.

---

UrsaMajor said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

calumnus said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

Your assumption is that he didn't and hadn't found out that our choices that were at the top of the list were....."
"not good".

Team travis would have offered hope. But I completely understand this hire _IF_ due diligence was really done and JK heard a lot about competing in a very dirty SEC.

---

He did. Knowlton spent a lot of time with Travis and concluded he wasn't ready yet. If he stays at Montana, it would appear that others share that view. It may be totally wrong, but it's a valid argument. Since Travis has yet to coach a single P5 game or recruit a single player as a P5 head coach, no one can say for certain that he would succeed. Rightly or wrongly, Knowlton feels that Fox's ceiling is higher and that his tenure at Georgia was affected by the slime of the SEC. Maybe right, maybe wrong. BTW, I was--and am--a Travis supporter, but that doesn't mean I won't acknowledge that I might be wrong.

I find it funny that those who are criticizing Knowlton are equally spit between "he dithers and can't decide" and "why did he jump the gun so quickly?"

---

OaktownBear said:

---

UrsaMajor said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

calumnus said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

Your assumption is that he didn't and hadn't found out that our choices that were at the top of the list were....."
"not good".

Team travis would have offered hope. But I completely understand this hire _IF_ due diligence was really done and JK heard a lot about competing in a very dirty SEC.

---

He did. Knowlton spent a lot of time with Travis and concluded he wasn't ready yet. If he stays at Montana, it would appear that others share that view. It may be totally wrong, but it's a valid argument. Since Travis has yet to coach a single P5 game or recruit a single player as a P5 head coach, no one can say for certain that he would succeed. Rightly or wrongly, Knowlton feels that Fox's ceiling is higher and that his tenure at Georgia was affected by the slime of the SEC. Maybe right, maybe wrong. BTW, I was--and am--a Travis supporter, but that doesn't mean I won't acknowledge that I might be wrong.

I find it funny that those who are criticizing Knowlton are equally spit between "he dithers and can't decide" and "why did he jump the gun so quickly?"

---

Back when Stanford had Teevans then Harris, I used to mock Stanford fans because to make themselves feel better they would say they couldn't win because other teams like Cal were selling their souls and Stanford was pure. I laughed and told them they were right and should keep thinking it because as long as they did, they would lose. That is an idea that may feel good, but it is completely toxic to winning. And it's utter bullshyte. Unfortunately, Stanford's AD didn't buy into that like their fans. Unfortunately, you are confirming our AD does.

If He doesn't think Decuire is ready, he will never think a mid major coach is ready until it is too late for Cal to get them. We are stuck with retread coaches because successful power conference coaches aren't coming here.

As a number of people have pointed out, passing on a coach because you aren't sure what he will do in favor of a guy who already had that shot and was mediocre makes no sense.

I have to also say that everything I've heard about how Travis presents himself goes a million percent against Knowlton's judgment here. It's the type of subjective statement that makes me wonder.

As for whether Decuire gets hired, Fox wasn't going to be hired either. As my real estate agent told me, of course I overpaid for the house, if I wasn't the highest bidder I wouldn't have gotten it. Cal is one of the worst power programs. By the time a coach has other offers, we are out of the running.

Thank you for confirming he did make this selection over Travis and his mindset. It was a conservative, cowardly decision that lacked any cajones when Cal needs someone with guts. I've been distinctly unimpressed with how little Knowlton has done, and this process just confirmed his weakness. But as the equally competent Tom Holmoe was, he succeeds in the only real qualification at Cal, kissing alums butts and telling them what they want to hear, especially the "everyone else cheats" excuse. Alums lap that up.

---

socaltownie said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

UrsaMajor said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

calumnus said:

---

71Bear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

If Cal had a decisive AD, they would have had a shot at hiring Smith. However, they have a guy who can't decide whether to have corn flakes or oatmeal for breakfast.

---

I have to say that I find it funny that everyone keeps saying Knowlton is very "deliberative" like it is a good thing. That word. Over and over.

And it sounds a lot like a positive spin on what everyone said about Dirks and his inability to make decisions.

---

As soon as it becomes apparent that a change needs to be made, you need to complete your due diligence and get ready to move. Getting ahead of the competition (in this case, WSU) is critical to making a successful hire. Instead, Knowlton couldn't make up his mind, vacillated and found himself behind the elephants instead of leading the parade.

Deliberative is great when you are deciding whether to drop a bomb on someone. It is not so good when you are trying to hire a hot candidate.....

---

Months ago Knowlton should have seen this as a distinct possibility in the very least. He should have taken in a game at USF, met Smith for lunch in the City. Called DeCuire for a chat to introduce himself, see how the season is going. Talk to Kidd, Shareef, Marks and our other NBA alums, get their suggestions. Invite Monty, Braun, Kerr and Kidd to games, get their opinions. At the point he knew he was going to fire Jones he should have had a very good idea of who he wanted and our chances of getting him.

---

Your assumption is that he didn't and hadn't found out that our choices that were at the top of the list were....."
"not good".

Team travis would have offered hope. But I completely understand this hire _IF_ due diligence was really done and JK heard a lot about competing in a very dirty SEC.

---

He did. Knowlton spent a lot of time with Travis and concluded he wasn't ready yet. If he stays at Montana, it would appear that others share that view. It may be totally wrong, but it's a valid argument. Since Travis has yet to coach a single P5 game or recruit a single player as a P5 head coach, no one can say for certain that he would succeed. Rightly or wrongly, Knowlton feels that Fox's ceiling is higher and that his tenure at Georgia was affected by the slime of the SEC. Maybe right, maybe wrong. BTW, I was--and am--a Travis supporter, but that doesn't mean I won't acknowledge that I might be wrong.

I find it funny that those who are criticizing Knowlton are equally spit between "he dithers and can't decide" and "why did he jump the gun so quickly?"

---

Back when Stanford had Teevans then Harris, I used to mock Stanford fans because to make themselves feel better they would say they couldn't win because other teams like Cal were selling their souls and Stanford was pure. I laughed and told them they were right and should keep thinking it because as long as they did, they would lose. That is an idea that may feel good, but it is completely toxic to winning. And it's utter bullshyte. Unfortunately, Stanford's AD didn't buy into that like their fans. Unfortunately, you are confirming our AD does.

If He doesn't think Decuire is ready, he will never think a mid major coach is ready until it is too late for Cal to get them. We are stuck with retread coaches because successful power conference coaches aren't coming here.

As a number of people have pointed out, passing on a coach because you aren't sure what he will do in favor of a guy who already had that shot and was mediocre makes no sense.

I have to also say that everything I've heard about how Travis presents himself goes a million percent against Knowlton's judgment here. It's the type of subjective statement that makes me wonder.

As for whether Decuire gets hired, Fox wasn't going to be hired either. As my real estate agent told me, of course I overpaid for the house, if I wasn't the highest bidder I wouldn't have gotten it. Cal is one of the worst power programs. By the time a coach has other offers, we are out of the running.

Thank you for confirming he did make this selection over Travis and his mindset. It was a conservative, cowardly decision that lacked any cajones when Cal needs someone with guts. I've been distinctly unimpressed with how little Knowlton has done, and this process just confirmed his weakness. But as the equally competent Tom Holmoe was, he succeeds in the only real qualification at Cal, kissing alums butts and telling them what they want to hear, especially the "everyone else cheats" excuse. Alums lap that up.

---

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Meh, at least Fox could do better than 4th at the mid-major level.

---

tsubamoto2001 said:

---

At USF? Unlikely, IMO.

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Meh, at least Fox could do better than 4th at the mid-major level.

---

---

Civil Bear said:

---

tsubamoto2001 said:

---

At USF? Unlikely, IMO.

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Meh, at least Fox could do better than 4th at the mid-major level.

---

---

He did it multiple times at Georgia, so I'm pretty sure he could have done it at USF, IMO.

---

annarborbear said:

---

Looks like a few people will be giving up their season tickets because of this hire. If any of these seats are any good, I would be interested. I think we are going to see some well-coached basketball again next year similar to the Monty era. 286-176 is a nice career record and the comments from others in the business seem all positive.

---

calumnus said:

---

annarborbear said:

---

Looks like a few people will be giving up their season tickets because of this hire. If any of these seats are any good, I would be interested. I think we are going to see some well-coached basketball again next year similar to the Monty era. 286-176 is a nice career record and the comments from others in the business seem all positive.

---

As a coach, his defense-first style reminds me more of Braun and Martin than Monty.

When we fired Braun his career record was 552-389.

---

annarborbear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

annarborbear said:

---

Looks like a few people will be giving up their season tickets because of this hire. If any of these seats are any good, I would be interested. I think we are going to see some well-coached basketball again next year similar to the Monty era. 286-176 is a nice career record and the comments from others in the business seem all positive.

---

As a coach, his defense-first style reminds me more of Braun and Martin than Monty.

When we fired Braun his career record was 552-389.

---

We are not just getting Fox. We are getting the combination of Fox and Trent Johnson. For a dumpster fire program with no practice facility, I think this is a good hire.

---

71Bear said:

---

annarborbear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

annarborbear said:

---

Looks like a few people will be giving up their season tickets because of this hire. If any of these seats are any good, I would be interested. I think we are going to see some well-coached basketball again next year similar to the Monty era. 286-176 is a nice career record and the comments from others in the business seem all positive.

---

As a coach, his defense-first style reminds me more of Braun and Martin than Monty.

When we fired Braun his career record was 552-389.

---

We are not just getting Fox. We are getting the combination of Fox and Trent Johnson. For a dumpster fire program with no practice facility, I think this is a good hire.

---

Johnson was 25-39 at LSU in conference games. He resigned to take the HC job at TCU where he was subsequently fired. Fox was 77-79 in conference games at GA and was fired.

The definitely have one thing in common - neither posted a winning record v. SEC competition.

Take a look at Chris Beard's background - that is the kinda guy Cal should have been looking for. Hiring a retread with a crappy record was stupid.

---

calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

tsubamoto2001 said:

---

At USF? Unlikely, IMO.

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Meh, at least Fox could do better than 4th at the mid-major level.

---

---

He did it multiple times at Georgia, so I'm pretty sure he could have done it at USF, IMO.

---

Finished better than 4th twice in 9 years, right? Same number of appearances in the NCAA tournament in that time. Zero NCAA wins in 9 years at a P5 school? Losing conference record?

---

TheSouseFamily said:

---

Do you have any idea what Chris Beard would cost?? Of the 350+ D1 schools, he's now out of the price range of about 340 of them.

Never mind the total lack of interest in academics.

---

71Bear said:

---

TheSouseFamily said:

---

Do you have any idea what Chris Beard would cost?? Of the 350+ D1 schools, he's now out of the price range of about 340 of them.

Never mind the total lack of interest in academics.

---

Souse, I should have been more clear.

I did NOT suggest that Cal hire him at this point (as you noted, it would not have been possible). What I meant was Cal should have been looking for a guy with his background BEFORE he started at TTU. Once he started there, it was too late to hire him. However, before he arrived at TTU, he was an up and comer with a terrific record. There are guys out there with that kind of background who are unknown to us but are well-known within the coaching fraternity. Those are the guys JT should have been looking for.

Sorry about any confusion my initial comment may have caused....

---

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

tsubamoto2001 said:

---

At USF? Unlikely, IMO.

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Wow, now I am envious of WSU's hire.

---

Meh, at least Fox could do better than 4th at the mid-major level.

---

---

He did it multiple times at Georgia, so I'm pretty sure he could have done it at USF, IMO.

---

Finished better than 4th twice in 9 years, right? Same number of appearances in the NCAA tournament in that time. Zero NCAA wins in 9 years at a P5 school? Losing conference record?

---

Thrice actually, but yeah as crappy a hire this is, it's still 10x better than hiring Kyle Smith:
Zero wins in the NCAA tourny in 9 seasons.
Zero appearances in the NCAA tourney.
Zero appearances in the NIT
Zero times finishing better than 3rd in the Ivy League (.440 winning percentage).
Zero times finishing better than 4th in the WCC

---

OaktownBear said:

---

I agree with you. Both are crappy hires, but WSU's is crappier.

---