Link to Fox addressing the team
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Last: 5 yr ago by rkt88edmo
Theres too much to unpack. He Sheen'd a "WINNING" too. I love this so much. Thank you for posting.
Whatever happened to the adage What Happens In The Locker Room Stays In The Locker Room?
So far he is mediocrity personified.
OMG! He may be an upgrade, BUT, I think there were/are some better candidates available. I will be wait and see, but right now, I am not impressed.
Go Bears!
Go Bears!
Start Slowly and taper off
KenBurnski said:
Theres too much to unpack. He Sheen'd a "WINNING" too. I love this so much. Thank you for posting.
Blue star for "Sheen'd a 'WINNING'". Lol.
Uggh, why post this? I am trying to get to acceptance.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
Why do you feel bad for the players? This is not the last time in each players life that they'll be confronted by events & people that compell them to change. Fox's style & message will resonate with some of them, not so much with others. It's decision time: Either they can get on the bus or decide to move on.
calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this? I am trying to get to acceptance.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
Actually I didn't think that was a bad speech. He already seems to have more command than Wyking. But the proof will be in the recruiting and performance.
That was akward. I wouldn't have stepped in with a taskmaster attitude. Not the right appeal if you ask me.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
It goes against the current cultural grain to hold anyone accountable! I loved his speech
1:43 is painful. I've done trying not to fall asleep at a lecture enough to know what it looks like. No idea why they would have that clip in there.calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this? I am trying to get to acceptance.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
Must be a generation gap. I would have run out the door, started practicing, lifting weights, and getting ready to win.
I don't know what bothers me most:calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this? I am trying to get to acceptance.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
- That Knowlton and Fox allowed this to be filmed.
- That Knowlton and Fox allowed this to be tweeted by CalMBB
- That anyone thought this was anything better than awkward
- The expressions on the faces of the players
- The fact that Mark Fox is the one delivering the address (don't know what else to call it).
I would say the first four are tied.BeachedBear said:I don't know what bothers me most:calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this? I am trying to get to acceptance.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
- That Knowlton and Fox allowed this to be filmed.
- That Knowlton and Fox allowed this to be tweeted by CalMBB
- That anyone thought this was anything better than awkward
- The expressions on the faces of the players
- The fact that Mark Fox is the one delivering the address (don't know what else to call it).
In fairness to Fox regarding the address I will say this:
The address seemed lackluster. The response seemed lackluster. I feel that a first address in this situation should be about both setting expectations AND creating buy-in and energy. What we saw was a whole lot of the first and none of the second except the in context kind of cringeworthy "Winning!".
That said, this was snippets from a much longer meeting. Further, he may have just intended this to be a conversational presentation.
Regarding the first 4 points:
If the intent was a personal, get to know you meeting with the team, it should have stayed private. They wanted to build some excitement and buy in from the fans. If they were going to do that, they needed to have moments to play to the camera. I think it is a bad idea. Should have let this be private.
That they would release this just says they don't understand the audience. I don't think Cal fans are looking for Knute Rockne speeches, but they are looking for something that makes them feel like they want to pick up a ball and get on the court. Nothing here did that. Frankly spent a lot of time on academic accountability. They seem to think that Cal fans want academics to be the focus almost to the exclusion of basketball. I don't think that is right. I think people want academics to be in order, not be the goal. To summarize 71Bear, we've got 40K people that are good at academics. There are 13 guys who we expect to be good students but whose primary contribution to the university is basketball.
The way this was cut was brutal. I can't say whether the whole meeting was awkward, but they certainly made it look like it. If I didn't know better, I'd think it was done by someone trying portray the hire in a bad light.
Regarding Fox, he probably should have said "no", but I understand if the new employer says they want to do this, you might do it. He probably should have reviewed final product before its release, but I understand thinking that someone is a professional and their job it too make you look good and you should be able to rely on that and not micromanage this stuff as a coach. I hope for his sake he knows how awkward this looks and has learned his lesson that it is his image on the line, not theirs, and he (unfortunately) needs to review their work.
As for the athletic department, their handling has just been horrible. Losing control of the decision/no decision story. Thinking the portray of the process given to Wilner would be well received. Thinking this video would be a positive. Are they playing the lower the expectations game so that anything Fox does will be a delightful surprise?
I am clearly very critical of this hire, but the coach deserves much better than this from the department.
I think you see that here in this video, and in Jim Knowlton's introductory remarks at the presser.OaktownBear said:
...They seem to think that Cal fans want academics to be the focus almost to the exclusion of basketball. I don't think that is right...
I get the frustration with Knowlton, and the questions about how qualified he is to be a Power Conference AD, and how well this search was conducted. But I honestly think the problem is above Jim Knowlton. I don't know anything for sure about how Knowlton is evaluated by his superiors, how much autonomy he is given, what his parameters are in performing his job, but I definitely get the impression that he is operating in an environment, and trying to achieve goals, that are different than the way fans look at it.
Fans say: the most important thing right now is to find a winner, a guy who can turn things around, and get our basketball program to compete at the highest levels. Compete for league championships, make the NCAA tournament, and win games once we get there. Sure, he has to care about academics, graduate players, not embarrass the university, etc., but most importantly, he has to win.
I think the administration looks at it the other way. The want to find a guy with sterling "off-the-court" credentials, and then is a competent coach second.
I am sure there were things Knowlton could have done better or differently during this search, but as OTB has pointed out, our AD's have been making these types of decisions for 60 years. Until the administration makes winning a true commitment, and a bigger component of the end goal, I'm not sure things will change.
OTOH this could be seen as a great piece of parody. Something the players can laugh at with their kids someday.
Seriously. Whoever edited that video and reviewed and decided to post it should be fired. It's a 2 minute video supposed to excite and we should 3 seconds of our best player dozing off?OaktownBear said:1:43 is painful. I've done trying not to fall asleep at a lecture enough to know what it looks like. No idea why they would have that clip in there.calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this? I am trying to get to acceptance.
Watching that, I felt bad for the players.
Here's the thing. Academics is very important to me. I've completely supported the higher admission standards for athletes. To give an indication, I was 100% opposed to taking Russell White when he didn't pass NCAA standard on the SAT (and as I always say, White came, got help for his learning disability, and made the most of his education. he did us proud) But the thing is, the academic issue for coaches is a pass fail. They respect it enough to emphasize it with the players and do what is necessary, or they don't. It is the most important box to check in that a final four coach that cuts corners on academics is unacceptable. But once the box is checked, it's checked. The guy who scores a 10 out of 10 on the academic question is not better than the guy who scores an 8 out of 10. This is a pass/fail grade. Basketball coaching needs to be an A. Academics should not be scored. Once you clear it, we move on to round 2 and we hire the best coach.LOUMFSG2 said:I think you see that here in this video, and in Jim Knowlton's introductory remarks at the presser.OaktownBear said:
...They seem to think that Cal fans want academics to be the focus almost to the exclusion of basketball. I don't think that is right...
I get the frustration with Knowlton, and the questions about how qualified he is to be a Power Conference AD, and how well this search was conducted. But I honestly think the problem is above Jim Knowlton. I don't know anything for sure about how Knowlton is evaluated by his superiors, how much autonomy he is given, what his parameters are in performing his job, but I definitely get the impression that he is operating in an environment, and trying to achieve goals, that are different than the way fans look at it.
Fans say: the most important thing right now is to find a winner, a guy who can turn things around, and get our basketball program to compete at the highest levels. Compete for league championships, make the NCAA tournament, and win games once we get there. Sure, he has to care about academics, graduate players, not embarrass the university, etc., but most importantly, he has to win.
I think the administration looks at it the other way. The want to find a guy with sterling "off-the-court" credentials, and then is a competent coach second.
I am sure there were things Knowlton could have done better or differently during this search, but as OTB has pointed out, our AD's have been making these types of decisions for 60 years. Until the administration makes winning a true commitment, and a bigger component of the end goal, I'm not sure things will change.
I can imagine every coach recruiting against us replaying this video. Hello! This is Berkeley, not a service academy. And we're well into the 21st Century.calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this?
I see nothing wrong with the video. I thought it was good and positive.
Go Bears!
I was not impressed with the video. I'm not sure if it's the coach or the terrible post production.
Poor presentation perhaps. But again, I would say Wilcox' first presser was worse. He looked really stiff and insecure. And I think Wilcox is a great coach (at least on defense lol). And Wyking's first presser was probably one of the best we've seen. And you know how things turned out.
So I kind of don't care about this. I just want us to have a legitimate product again in men's hoops.
So I kind of don't care about this. I just want us to have a legitimate product again in men's hoops.
People realize Fox is not the new Sociology professor, right? That speech was harsh or overly stern? Perhaps competitive sports isn't right for you, if so. And praise Oski we didn't hire Tom Izzo, Bruce Pearl, Mike Kryzyewski, Sean Miller, John Calipari, Chris Beard, Roy Williams, Rick Barnes, etc who would laugh at the notion of Fox coming across too strong there. Back to our safe spaces, everyone. Fortunately though, I think the players can handle it.
TheSouseFamily said:
People realize Fox is not the new Sociology professor, right? That speech was harsh or overly stern? Perhaps competitive sports isn't right for you, if so. And praise Oski we didn't hire Tom Izzo, Bruce Pearl, Mike Kryzyewski, Sean Miller, John Calipari, Chris Beard, Roy Williams, Rick Barnes, etc who would laugh at the notion of Fox coming across too strong there. Back to our safe spaces, everyone. Fortunately though, I think the players can handle it.
Who said he was too tough? I think most thought he came off boring and uninspiring.
OaktownBear said:TheSouseFamily said:
People realize Fox is not the new Sociology professor, right? That speech was harsh or overly stern? Perhaps competitive sports isn't right for you, if so. And praise Oski we didn't hire Tom Izzo, Bruce Pearl, Mike Kryzyewski, Sean Miller, John Calipari, Chris Beard, Roy Williams, Rick Barnes, etc who would laugh at the notion of Fox coming across too strong there. Back to our safe spaces, everyone. Fortunately though, I think the players can handle it.
Who said he was too tough? I think most thought he came off boring and uninspiring.
"I wouldn't have stepped in with a taskmaster attitude" and "This isn't a service academy, it's Berkeley" come to mind. As for whether it was boring and uninspiring, I'm not gonna pass judgment on the short clip shown and leave it to the players who probably spent a lot more time with him. Unless you're in the room and heard the whole thing, it's impossible to assess the energy at this meeting. And nothing I've read from Georgia fans seems to suggest that leadership style is one of Fox's shortcomings.
That was the feeling which prompted my complaint (This isn't a service academy, it's Berkeley.)OaktownBear said:
I think most thought he came off boring and uninspiring.
I wonder how the players took it if they had to sit through 2 hours and the producer showed us just the most inspiring 2 minutes.
I get a couple comments, but I think if you think the reaction is that he is overly harsh, I think you are misreading the sentiment.TheSouseFamily said:OaktownBear said:TheSouseFamily said:
People realize Fox is not the new Sociology professor, right? That speech was harsh or overly stern? Perhaps competitive sports isn't right for you, if so. And praise Oski we didn't hire Tom Izzo, Bruce Pearl, Mike Kryzyewski, Sean Miller, John Calipari, Chris Beard, Roy Williams, Rick Barnes, etc who would laugh at the notion of Fox coming across too strong there. Back to our safe spaces, everyone. Fortunately though, I think the players can handle it.
Who said he was too tough? I think most thought he came off boring and uninspiring.
"I wouldn't have stepped in with a taskmaster attitude" and "This isn't a service academy, it's Berkeley" come to mind. As for whether it was boring and uninspiring, I'm not gonna pass judgment on the short clip shown and leave it to the players who probably spent a lot more time with him. Unless you're in the room and heard the whole thing, it's impossible to assess the energy at this meeting. And nothing I've read from Georgia fans seems to suggest that leadership style is one of Fox's shortcomings.
If you look at my post above, I think the video is terrible. I'm not blaming Fox. He is poorly represented. it may or may not be an accurate representation, but it is a poor one.
For goodness sake you have a long shot of a player who looks like he is fighting to stay awake. ***.
I would have left out the shot of Sueing but the body language of the players didn't look bad to me. There was even a shot of Gordon nodding his head to something Fox said. Regardless, I thought the video was fine and ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I don't know what people would have expected from players hearing from their new coach in person for the first time. Seems that they were listening intently and I thought the message was generally was fine. Still, it's really hard to make a judgment about a meeting from just a 2 minute clip. While I'm not over the moon with the hire, I suspect we'll ultimately give Fox good marks for his leadership and how he treats/communicates with players.
I think we may have reached the point of diminishing returns in terms of dissecting every tidbit of information (perhaps a poll on whether we thought Fox's tie conveyed power or not?). It is clear that this hire did not inspire the fanbase (or at least the BI fanbase), but at this point perhaps it makes sense to let it play out. If players decide to leave, that will be a negative sign. If they stay, maybe a bit more positive. Otherwise, we're going to have to wait until the fall to gauge how things are shaping up.
Souse - it is really hard to make a judgment about a 3 hour football game from just a 2 minute clip. And yet they release them and their point is to fire up the fanbase. Cal even made videos that made Dykes' first year look good. That's the point of the video. To make Cal look good.TheSouseFamily said:
I would have left out the shot of Sueing but the body language of the players didn't look bad to me. There was even a shot of Gordon nodding his head to something Fox said. Regardless, I thought the video was fine and ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I don't know what people would have expected from players hearing from their new coach in person for the first time. Seems that they were listening intently and I thought the message was generally was fine. Still, it's really hard to make a judgment about a meeting from just a 2 minute clip. While I'm not over the moon with the hire, I suspect we'll ultimately give Fox good marks for his leadership and how he treats/communicates with players.
I expect nothing from players hearing from their new coach for the first time. Which is why I said they should have kept the meeting private. They chose to release something. They didn't have to. No one was expecting it.
I've been around youth sports a long time. The last huddle and cheer "together" (I can't put an exclamation point on that) is literally the most lackluster I have ever heard. Which might be completely reasonable given this is a team meeting in a classroom 6 months before the next game. Why show this?
I have zero judgment of Fox from this. What I expect from Fox in his first team meeting is irrelevant. This is a video released to the pubic to get fans on board. It is a lame video. It makes Fox look lame and that is unfair to him.
Fox - No judgment
Video - Lame.
seriously? I can imagine that not a single coach will show that video.stu said:I can imagine every coach recruiting against us replaying this video. Hello! This is Berkeley, not a service academy. And we're well into the 21st Century.calumnus said:
Uggh, why post this?
You know, we are ALL different kinds of leaders. Some are like Fox. I tend to be on the "Lets all get on the same team and pull our oars together. I am just one of you" kind of guy but to each his own.
Proof will be W-Ls. This is now gone from ridiculousness to insanity
#74DeadattheRocks
#Jerrydidn'tsuck
#team hope.
Proof will be W-Ls. This is now gone from ridiculousness to insanity
#74DeadattheRocks
#Jerrydidn'tsuck
#team hope.
They cut the prior scene, where Conor's mom apologizes about forgetting to bring the juice boxes!OaktownBear said:
I've been around youth sports a long time. The last huddle and cheer "together" (I can't put an exclamation point on that) is literally the most lackluster I have ever heard.
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