Disappointing, but expected

I hope that he enjoys being closer to home and winning.

parentswerebears said:

---

I hope that he enjoys being closer to home and winning.

---

This move makes more sense than Vandy. I enjoyed watching him develop over the second half of last season. I wish him the best and hope he continues his upward trajectory. We really could have used him this season.

OK, so Arkansas' new coach scored on the transfer market.

Still waiting for Fox to do the same.

BearSD said:

---

OK, so Arkansas' new coach scored on the transfer market.

Still waiting for Fox to do the same.

---

I wouldn't hold your breath. He essentially said to Faurado that he wouldn't be.

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

---

To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

Too bad-Vanover obviously sees his future in the NBA. Academics are not in the same league at Arkansas.
GO BEARS!

Schroeder71 said:

---

Too bad-Vanover obviously sees his future in the NBA. Academics are not in the same league at Arkansas.
GO BEARS!

---

That's right. He's not transferring universities; he's transferring basketball programs. He, understandably so, sees his basketball career as his meal ticket and prioritizes that above all. Even above the academics, Bay Area weather and the tasty sausages at Cal. He'll do anything he can to develop and position himself to further his basketball career ambitions. It's the same reason he left his HS in Arky to play at Findlay Prep (which isn't even a school). There was one and only objective with that move. He simply has a singular focus to advance his basketball career and given his interests and the money at stake, it makes sense. It's just unfortunate that he didn't think that Cal could provide that right now.

parentswerebears said:

---

BearSD said:

---

OK, so Arkansas' new coach scored on the transfer market.

Still waiting for Fox to do the same.

---

I wouldn't hold your breath. He essentially said to Faurado that he wouldn't be.

---

Fox said that before 5 guys on last year's roster ran as fast as they could into the transfer portal.

BearSD said:

---

parentswerebears said:

---

BearSD said:

---

OK, so Arkansas' new coach scored on the transfer market.

Still waiting for Fox to do the same.

---

I wouldn't hold your breath. He essentially said to Faurado that he wouldn't be.

---

Fox said that before 5 guys on last year's roster ran as fast as they could into the transfer portal.

---

I'll bet that we get this Greek guy and then that will be it for 2019. Then we will be in wait and see, as will the recruits until next spring to see if Fox can actually do anything with what is here. This year will be brutal.

parentswerebears said:

---

BearSD said:

---

parentswerebears said:

---

BearSD said:

---

OK, so Arkansas' new coach scored on the transfer market.

Still waiting for Fox to do the same.

---

I wouldn't hold your breath. He essentially said to Faurado that he wouldn't be.

---

Fox said that before 5 guys on last year's roster ran as fast as they could into the transfer portal.

---

I'll bet that we get this Greek guy and then that will be it for 2019. Then we will be in wait and see, as will the recruits until next spring to see if Fox can actually do anything with what is here. This year will be brutal.

---

One brutal season was difficult. The second-in-a-row made it worse. Ya go through two seasons like we just went through and ya kinda feel like that's enough of that s___ for awhile. Well, we're not out of it yet, not even close.

I renewed my season ticket!

Thank you for renewing!

BeachedBear said:

---

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

---

To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

---

This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

SFCityBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

---

To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

---

This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

---

I'm one who advocated for Jones replacement at the end of the season. And although Fox may not be the ideal replacement, I am happy that we are moving ahead as a program. The roster fallout is about as expected with the new transfer portal rules and free agency. It's like taking off a band-aid. Better to just do it and move ahead. There are too many IFS to consider is hiring FOX earlier was even possible/available. But if I discount all of that and we somehow knew he would be the coach, then sure - why not start process earlier. But in reality . . .

I have a strong sense that retaining Jones would have had the same roster turnover as replacing him, so that option is not worth re-hashing. As for replacing a coach mid-season, there are many other factors that make that unpalatable absent some ethical actions such as criminal activity, personal abuse or other issue not related to the game. First and foremost - it sends a clear message about the type of support the coach can expect from the administration. Just look at UCLA, they were turned down by many coaches - and they're UCLA!!!

BeachedBear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

---

To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

---

This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

---

I'm one who advocated for Jones replacement at the end of the season. And although Fox may not be the ideal replacement, I am happy that we are moving ahead as a program. The roster fallout is about as expected with the new transfer portal rules and free agency. It's like taking off a band-aid. Better to just do it and move ahead. There are too many IFS to consider is hiring FOX earlier was even possible/available. But if I discount all of that and we somehow knew he would be the coach, then sure - why not start process earlier. But in reality . . .

I have a strong sense that retaining Jones would have had the same roster turnover as replacing him, so that option is not worth re-hashing. As for replacing a coach mid-season, there are many other factors that make that unpalatable absent some ethical actions such as criminal activity, personal abuse or other issue not related to the game. First and foremost - it sends a clear message about the type of support the coach can expect from the administration. Just look at UCLA, they were turned down by many coaches - and they're UCLA!!!

---

True that retaining WJ would have resulted in three transfers, however Vanover would have stayed per his strong relationship with the head coach - not an opinion, just the way he stated it. However Dyson would have most likely left. Sueling and McNeil were definitely gone. Team is in a definite hole and needs to pick up minimum 2 more solid players to have a shot at 6-8 conference wins.

Big C said:

---

parentswerebears said:

---

BearSD said:

---

parentswerebears said:

---

BearSD said:

---

OK, so Arkansas' new coach scored on the transfer market.

Still waiting for Fox to do the same.

---

I wouldn't hold your breath. He essentially said to Faurado that he wouldn't be.

---

Fox said that before 5 guys on last year's roster ran as fast as they could into the transfer portal.

---

I'll bet that we get this Greek guy and then that will be it for 2019. Then we will be in wait and see, as will the recruits until next spring to see if Fox can actually do anything with what is here. This year will be brutal.

---

One brutal season was difficult. The second-in-a-row made it worse. Ya go through two seasons like we just went through and ya kinda feel like that's enough of that s___ for awhile. Well, we're not out of it yet, not even close.

---

At least we're not Knicks fans.

There is something very cool about the fact our best player, Matt Bradley, stayed. I love that guy. Weak sauce he ain't.

It could be that Thorpe can play better defense than Vanover, especially away from the basket. Maybe Kuani can help there. If Gordon feels more confident and the injury is fully healed, he might play better than last year and help the offense.

Bradley can be better than McNeil and perhaps more consistent. Grant improved last year and could take another step this year. Though not a great three shooter, Austin can provide some offense, especially in the ever disappearing mid range area. It may not be as bleak as some think. Perhaps three shooters will not be wide open in the corners next year.

oskidunker said:

---

It could be that Thorpe can play better defense than Vanover, especially away from the basket. Maybe Kuani can help there. If Gordon feels more confident and the injury is fully healed, he might play better than last year and help the offense.

Bradley can be better than McNeil and perhaps more consistent. Grant improved last year and could take another step this year. Though not a great three shooter, Austin can provide some offense, especially in the ever disappearing mid range area. It may not be as bleak as some think. Perhaps three shooters will not be wide open in the corners next year.

---

That would be nice.

oskidunker said:

---

It could be that Thorpe can play better defense than Vanover, especially away from the basket. Maybe Kuani can help there. If Gordon feels more confident and the injury is fully healed, he might play better than last year and help the offense.

Bradley can be better than McNeil and perhaps more consistent. Grant improved last year and could take another step this year. Though not a great three shooter, Austin can provide some offense, especially in the ever disappearing mid range area. It may not be as bleak as some think. Perhaps three shooters will not be wide open in the corners next year

---

Good points. Since there are only two corners, if we left 3 shooters open in them, we were even worse than I thought.

SFCityBear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

It could be that Thorpe can play better defense than Vanover, especially away from the basket. Maybe Kuani can help there. If Gordon feels more confident and the injury is fully healed, he might play better than last year and help the offense.

Bradley can be better than McNeil and perhaps more consistent. Grant improved last year and could take another step this year. Though not a great three shooter, Austin can provide some offense, especially in the ever disappearing mid range area. It may not be as bleak as some think. Perhaps three shooters will not be wide open in the corners next year

---

Good points. Since there are only two corners, if we left 3 shooters open in them, we were even worse than I thought.

---

*scoff* - You underestimate us. We'll plant someone at one of the halfcourt corners.

Fox will still win more than 8 games with a less talented roster than Jones had. Jones should never have been hired in the first place, so at any point he was fired it was already too late.

HKBear97! said:

---

Fox will still win more than 8 games with a less talented roster than Jones had. Jones should never have been hired in the first place, so at any point he was fired it was already too late.

---

More than 8? Not sure who is on the non-conference schedule (Harvard?) but I hope you are right.

But being "better than Jones" is a low bar. We have paid $millions for the upgrade, it should be significant, not marginal.

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

Fox will still win more than 8 games with a less talented roster than Jones had. Jones should never have been hired in the first place, so at any point he was fired it was already too late.

---

More than 8? Not sure who is on the non-conference schedule (Harvard?) but I hope you are right.

But being "better than Jones" is a low bar. We have paid $millions for the upgrade, it should be significant, not marginal.

---

It's an incredibly low bar. The last time we won 8 or fewer games was 1979!

Point being, Jones was a disaster. Fox is an upgrade, but it remains to be seen how much of an upgrade he might be. We'll know soon enough.

bearister said:

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My biggest disappointment is that he saved his non embarrassing hair style for Arkansas.

---

Ironic, because his previous hair styles would have fit in well there. ;-)

Get that Twitter BS out of here Vanover. Like we believe it.

BearSD said:

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bearister said:

---

My biggest disappointment is that he saved his non embarrassing hair style for Arkansas.

---

Ironic, because his previous hair styles would have fit in well there. ;-)

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

---

To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

---

This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

---

I'm one who advocated for Jones replacement at the end of the season. And although Fox may not be the ideal replacement, I am happy that we are moving ahead as a program. The roster fallout is about as expected with the new transfer portal rules and free agency. It's like taking off a band-aid. Better to just do it and move ahead. There are too many IFS to consider is hiring FOX earlier was even possible/available. But if I discount all of that and we somehow knew he would be the coach, then sure - why not start process earlier. But in reality . . .

I have a strong sense that retaining Jones would have had the same roster turnover as replacing him, so that option is not worth re-hashing. As for replacing a coach mid-season, there are many other factors that make that unpalatable absent some ethical actions such as criminal activity, personal abuse or other issue not related to the game. First and foremost - it sends a clear message about the type of support the coach can expect from the administration. Just look at UCLA, they were turned down by many coaches - and they're UCLA!!!

---

True that retaining WJ would have resulted in three transfers, however Vanover would have stayed per his strong relationship with the head coach - not an opinion, just the way he stated it. However Dyson would have most likely left. Sueling and McNeil were definitely gone. Team is in a definite hole and needs to pick up minimum 2 more solid players to have a shot at 6-8 conference wins.

---

I hope they close off recruiting for 2019, take whatever lumps that entails, and focus on the future. This coming season the goal ought to be to develop the players we have (some of whom have real potential), work like hell on recruiting players who fit the program's goals, and just build up a base from there. This is a program that needs continuity and eventuality to be led by upperclassmen. It's a slow and, to some, boring approach but it needs to happen.

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

Fox will still win more than 8 games with a less talented roster than Jones had. Jones should never have been hired in the first place, so at any point he was fired it was already too late.

---

More than 8? Not sure who is on the non-conference schedule (Harvard?) but I hope you are right.

But being "better than Jones" is a low bar. We have paid $millions for the upgrade, it should be significant, not marginal.

---

Not until the roster is upgraded.

GMP said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

It could be that Thorpe can play better defense than Vanover, especially away from the basket. Maybe Kuani can help there. If Gordon feels more confident and the injury is fully healed, he might play better than last year and help the offense.

Bradley can be better than McNeil and perhaps more consistent. Grant improved last year and could take another step this year. Though not a great three shooter, Austin can provide some offense, especially in the ever disappearing mid range area. It may not be as bleak as some think. Perhaps three shooters will not be wide open in the corners next year

---

Good points. Since there are only two corners, if we left 3 shooters open in them, we were even worse than I thought.

---

*scoff* - You underestimate us. We'll plant someone at one of the halfcourt corners.

---

Sorry, I forgot there was a half-court line and four corners. It has been a long time since I've seen a half court violation called, and even longer since Dean Smith was around running his Four Corners Offense to stall out the end of a game with a lead. Last time I was at Haas, the half court line was painted so thin, I could barely see it, especially in the area where the big bear was painted.

bluesaxe said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

---

To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

---

This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

---

I'm one who advocated for Jones replacement at the end of the season. And although Fox may not be the ideal replacement, I am happy that we are moving ahead as a program. The roster fallout is about as expected with the new transfer portal rules and free agency. It's like taking off a band-aid. Better to just do it and move ahead. There are too many IFS to consider is hiring FOX earlier was even possible/available. But if I discount all of that and we somehow knew he would be the coach, then sure - why not start process earlier. But in reality . . .

I have a strong sense that retaining Jones would have had the same roster turnover as replacing him, so that option is not worth re-hashing. As for replacing a coach mid-season, there are many other factors that make that unpalatable absent some ethical actions such as criminal activity, personal abuse or other issue not related to the game. First and foremost - it sends a clear message about the type of support the coach can expect from the administration. Just look at UCLA, they were turned down by many coaches - and they're UCLA!!!

---

True that retaining WJ would have resulted in three transfers, however Vanover would have stayed per his strong relationship with the head coach - not an opinion, just the way he stated it. However Dyson would have most likely left. Sueling and McNeil were definitely gone. Team is in a definite hole and needs to pick up minimum 2 more solid players to have a shot at 6-8 conference wins.

---

I hope they close off recruiting for 2019, take whatever lumps that entails, and focus on the future. This coming season the goal ought to be to develop the players we have (some of whom have real potential), work like hell on recruiting players who fit the program's goals, and just build up a base from there. This is a program that needs continuity and eventuality to be led by upperclassmen. It's a slow and, to some, boring approach but it needs to happen.

---

I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned. This is, on paper, a weaker roster and more undermanned than last season. We have only one player with proven talent, capable of playing well in the PAC12. and that is Bradley. We have only 10 on scholarships, but two of those are coming off serious injuries, Thorpe and Gordon, and we have no idea whether they can give us very much. JHD has had two injury plagued seasons, and we have no idea what we will get from him. We have only two other players who have much experience, Kelly and Austin, who aren't good enough to start for other PAC12 teams, but at least won't embarrass us. We have no small forwards or centers with experience. The only backup big for Kelly and Thorpe is Anticevich. I could be wrong, but I think Kuany is a forward who likes to play and create from the perimeter. Of the 10 players we have, four are high school recruits.

I for one am tired of watching incomplete rosters loaded with inexperienced players trying to win games. If you shut down recruiting now, are you saying if you heard of an available player, especially a big, that you would not even take a look at him? I agree in principle with what you said about developing players from a base, and have upperclassmen eventually leading a team. But it is not good to abandon the usual recruiting and subject the team to losing a ton of games, like last season. You don't want to subject the players to thinking like losers, like last season, believing that no matter how hard they play, they are still going to lose. Better to win a few more games than last season, and build on that, then give up and have another year like those under Jones. Have some more faith in Fox. He's been around, and I doubt he will waste a schollie on another Winston or McCullogh. Based on who he has landed so far, I think he can evaluate better than the rookie coach Jones.