Looks like Cal has a great shot here. I think we're the favorites to land him
Marcus Bagley
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Last: 4 yr ago by GBear4Life
That would be quite the shot in the arm for Cal Basketball! Not in the same league as when Rabb committed, but big still.
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
Wow! Jumpin' Joe Caldwell's grandson? If he is half as good as Joe, he'll be a good one. Can he play defense? One of the greatest Warrior games I ever saw was a playoff game vs the Hawks at Civic Auditorium. It went a couple of overtime periods, with Caldwell and Jeff Mullins each scoring 40 points.Neither one could be stopped. It seems that Bagley lived in Phoenix when he was young and went to a lot of ASU games, and of course, grandpa was a big basketball and track star at ASU, so I would say ASU has a big edge.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
I think if he comes to Cal, Cal already has a few players who might have a thing or two to say about who is Cal's best player.
SFCityBear
We've made it into Walker Kessler's (5-star recruit) top 5, however we didn't make it in the final 5 for Josh Christopher (Patrick Christopher's younger brother)
Nor for Jabri Abdur-Rahim. But still, great job in filling in the holes at the end of the 2019 Class.Chunger89 said:
We've made it into Walker Kessler's (5-star recruit) top 5, however we didn't make it in the final 5 for Josh Christopher (Patrick Christopher's younger brother)
We'll assess the 2020 Class when we hit the fall signing day, but I gotta think most recruits want to see what the team looks like so they know what they would be committing to.
While he could end up being better than Rabb, when Ivan committed to Cal, it was a huge deal. One that we never really capitalized on, unfortunately.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
Bagley is nowhere near as highly rated as a recruit as Rabb was. His name is what's making people overrate him.Big C said:While he could end up being better than Rabb, when Ivan committed to Cal, it was a huge deal. One that we never really capitalized on, unfortunately.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
Yeah I recall Rabb was at one point in the discussion for the best player in HS before an injury. Even afterwards, he was a consensus 5 star, McD AA, and projected by pretty much everyone to be a OAD. Marcus Bagley may ultimately have a better college career, but in terms of recruiting profile, he's not in the same league. Marvin Bagley's profile was more along the line of Rabb's coming out of HS.BearNakedLadies said:Bagley is nowhere near as highly rated as a recruit as Rabb was. His name is what's making people overrate him.Big C said:While he could end up being better than Rabb, when Ivan committed to Cal, it was a huge deal. One that we never really capitalized on, unfortunately.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
There were reasons. One might have been he had a coach who was not adept at getting good shots for his players, and another was he did not have a pass-first point guard to get him the ball. I think it might have been nice if Cal had recruited Paris Austin, Rabb's point guard in high school. While there are more talented point guards than Austin, he did work very well with Rabb in high school, with great success. Austin would have played behind Wallace, but in his minutes, he would have been looking for Rabb probably more than Wallace or Singer would have. In any case, Rabb was a stellar rebounder for Cal, and came to play a decent defense.Big C said:While he could end up being better than Rabb, when Ivan committed to Cal, it was a huge deal. One that we never really capitalized on, unfortunately.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
SFCityBear
I can count on one finger how many successful ally oop passes to Rabb (and Jaylen)
I can count on another finger how many successful pick and rolls to Rabb
I can count on another finger how many successful pick and rolls to Rabb
SFCityBear said:There were reasons. One might have been he had a coach who was not adept at getting good shots for his players, and another was he did not have a pass-first point guard to get him the ball. I think it might have been nice if Cal had recruited Paris Austin, Rabb's point guard in high school. While there are more talented point guards than Austin, he did work very well with Rabb in high school, with great success. Austin would have played behind Wallace, but in his minutes, he would have been looking for Rabb probably more than Wallace or Singer would have. In any case, Rabb was a stellar rebounder for Cal, and came to play a decent defense.Big C said:While he could end up being better than Rabb, when Ivan committed to Cal, it was a huge deal. One that we never really capitalized on, unfortunately.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
This could be a double-edged sword. Bagley Sr. ( Marvin Bagley Jr?) sniped at Sacramento Kings coach Dave Joeger during last season about Marvin Bagley III's playing time. So I think it's safe to assume he'd do the same to a college coach.
A consultation with Lindsay Gottlieb could have fixed that.HoopDreams said:
I can count on one finger how many successful ally oop passes to Rabb (and Jaylen)
Uh, Rabb's career was a disappointment.BearNakedLadies said:Bagley is nowhere near as highly rated as a recruit as Rabb was. His name is what's making people overrate him.Big C said:While he could end up being better than Rabb, when Ivan committed to Cal, it was a huge deal. One that we never really capitalized on, unfortunately.GBear4Life said:
He'll be better than Rabb.
Fingers crossed. At least at Cal he'll step right in and play 30 mpg as the best player on the team the moment he steps on the practice floor.
24/7 sports has ASU as the clear front runner.
Rabb was clearly overrated as a HS prospect, unless we want to blame Cal coaches and a weak supporting cast after his first year.PtownBear1 said:
Yeah I recall Rabb was at one point in the discussion for the best player in HS before an injury. Even afterwards, he was a consensus 5 star, McD AA, and projected by pretty much everyone to be a OAD. Marcus Bagley may ultimately have a better college career, but in terms of recruiting profile, he's not in the same league. Marvin Bagley's profile was more along the line of Rabb's coming out of HS.
Recruiting sites make mistakes. I mean, look at Marcus Lee. Good lord.
GBear4Life said:Rabb was clearly overrated as a HS prospect, unless we want to blame Cal coaches and a weak supporting cast after his first year.PtownBear1 said:
Yeah I recall Rabb was at one point in the discussion for the best player in HS before an injury. Even afterwards, he was a consensus 5 star, McD AA, and projected by pretty much everyone to be a OAD. Marcus Bagley may ultimately have a better college career, but in terms of recruiting profile, he's not in the same league. Marvin Bagley's profile was more along the line of Rabb's coming out of HS.
Recruiting sites make mistakes. I mean, look at Marcus Lee. Good lord.
I may be mistaken, but I don't recall Lee ever being that skilled relative to other top HS players. I thought he was more of a dunker that was rated a 5 star based on his athleticism. Whereas Rabb was the full package. Super skilled and athletic. I don't follow the pros much and don't really understand where it went wrong. Maybe after his injury at Cal? I would have thought Rabb would at least be a solid bench guy in the league by now.
I have never perceived Rabb to have a "full package" as a player.
He was truly an exceptional (perhaps for college), even a great rebounder.
However, his defense was at best mediocre and his ball handling was less than mediocre, that is, his ability to make moves with the ball in his hands beyond point blank proximity to the basket,
As a passer, also, mediocre at best.
As a person, however, he did appear to have the full package.
He was truly an exceptional (perhaps for college), even a great rebounder.
However, his defense was at best mediocre and his ball handling was less than mediocre, that is, his ability to make moves with the ball in his hands beyond point blank proximity to the basket,
As a passer, also, mediocre at best.
As a person, however, he did appear to have the full package.
I have never perceived John Bobbitt to have a full package either.south bender said:
I have never perceived Rabb to have a "full package" as a player.
I am the first to agree that recruiting sites make mistakes, and more than most would be willing to admit, but I would not say that Rabb was clearly overrated as a HS prospect. What exactly did he do or not do to convince you to make such a statement? He was one of the best big men in Cal history, certainly the best freshman big man to ever come to Cal. Only Ansley Truitt comes close. In his first year, Rabb was the starting center on the All-PAC12 Freshman Team. He made 2nd team all PAC12, and he was named to the six-man PAC12 All-Tournament Team. He was Cal's best player in Cal's do or die NCAA Tournament game.GBear4Life said:Rabb was clearly overrated as a HS prospect, unless we want to blame Cal coaches and a weak supporting cast after his first year.PtownBear1 said:
Yeah I recall Rabb was at one point in the discussion for the best player in HS before an injury. Even afterwards, he was a consensus 5 star, McD AA, and projected by pretty much everyone to be a OAD. Marcus Bagley may ultimately have a better college career, but in terms of recruiting profile, he's not in the same league. Marvin Bagley's profile was more along the line of Rabb's coming out of HS.
Recruiting sites make mistakes. I mean, look at Marcus Lee. Good lord.
In that first season, the PAC12 had some very good big men which Rabb had to compete against, and most of them were older than Rabb. That also can mean stronger and wiser. Ryan Anderson of Arizona a 5th year senior, 4 years older than Rabb. Josh Scott of Colorado was a senior. Kaleb Tarczewski of Arizona was a senior, and so was Rosco Allen of Stanford. Stanford also had Reid Travis and Michael Humphrey, both sophs. Chris Boucher of Oregon was a junior. Jakob Poeltl of Utah was a sophomore, but a year and a half older than young Ivan. Jovanovic of USC was a junior, plus they had Metu and Boatwright, both frosh. UW had Malik Dime, a junior, but 4.5 years older than Ivan, plus Noah Dickerson, a frosh. UCLA had sophs Welsh and Bolden. WSU had Josh Hawkinson and Conor Clifford, both juniors.
You don't seem to consider how long it takes big players to develop, and Rabb was no exception. Imhoff took 2 years to be as good as Rabb, the freshman. Solomon took 3 years. Francisco Elson didn't develop until he was in the NBA. Being rated #5 in the country as a high schooler means you are a dominant player probably in good competition, and you have a great chance to be successful somewhere on down the road. NOBODY knows exactly when you might be successful at a higher level.
You make a point about Rabb having a weak supporting cast in his second year. I'd say he had a supporting cast in his first year that was nearly as weak. In his first year, his teammates were good enough to keep Rabb from drawing too many double teams, but did they ever pass him the ball when he was open? Cal was 182nd in Division one in assists in 2016. Awful. In 2017, even worse, at 231st in D1 in assists. Here are Montgomery's Cal teams' rankings in Assists in D1:
2009: 45th
2010 50th
2011: 57th
2012: 23rd
2013: 81st
2014 19th
Not only that, but how many times did you see anyone set a pick for Rabb?
Because of personnel deficiencies up front, Rabb at Cal was having to morph into a new position, power forward, which means changing from playing back to the basket to facing the basket. Not only that, he had to cover for the two centers, Rooks and Okoroh, who both had deficiencies on offense and defense, and rebounding. Sometimes both of them were on the bench, and Rabb had to play center. What you had among the rest was a bunch of players looking for their own shot. I put most of that on Cuonzo Martin, but still Rabb's teammates should have been trying to make him look better on offense to some extent.
In 2017, it was more of the same, except that the senior big men in the PAC12 had graduated and some big men had left for the pros. Rabb was named First Team All-PAC12, and freshman Markaanan was another good big to add the mix of good players who were a year older. Rabb's team was weaker, but he was not, as he had a better year, statistically. The game was changing, and the players changed with it. Now, most big men can make a three. Rabb did not have that skill, so I don't know if he will stick in the NBA. He did not get the benefit of good coaching at Cal, and he will need to get it in the NBA, if they like him enough. He probably should have left Cal earlier, in retrospect, or gone to a school with good coaching. I agree with SouthBender that he was not the full package, but he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear said:
he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
How about Shareef?
I think that both were about the same height.
south bender said:SFCityBear said:
he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
How about Shareef?
I think that both were about the same height.
Cal fans complained about Shareef also. There seems to be a Cal tradition of complaining about the best players and celebrating the lesser talented overachievers.
Good post SF
Rabb was awesome at Cal and will ever be one of my fav Bears for his on court game, and his character and attitude. One of the nicest and most humble stars I've seen, and a local guy who represented with 100% class
Rabb was awesome at Cal and will ever be one of my fav Bears for his on court game, and his character and attitude. One of the nicest and most humble stars I've seen, and a local guy who represented with 100% class
HoopDreams said:
Good post SF
Rabb was awesome at Cal and will ever be one of my fav Bears for his on court game, and his character and attitude. One of the nicest and most humble stars I've seen, and a local guy who represented with 100% class
+1
Wow! Very thorough discussion!
However if I am Marcus Bagley curious to read what people are writing about me, I don't know that I am coming away with a good impression about Cal basketball.
However if I am Marcus Bagley curious to read what people are writing about me, I don't know that I am coming away with a good impression about Cal basketball.
Leon Powe? Shareef? Powe was 1st Team all Pac as a frosh, and Shareef was POY as a frosh. Rabb was 2nd team as a frosh in a weaker conference.SFCityBear said:
I agree with SouthBender that he was not the full package, but he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
Rabb was clearly a very skilled and well rounded college big, but relative to the recruting hype as a top big man, he didn't have a stellar career. I think your points about his supporting cast are fair.
I don't really like debating GOAT
But yeah, Shareef was the most dominant freshman at Cal IMHO
And dare I say, even bigger impact than Jason Kidd in the regular season
So much depends on success in the tournament in how we remember how good a team or player is
But yeah, Shareef was the most dominant freshman at Cal IMHO
And dare I say, even bigger impact than Jason Kidd in the regular season
So much depends on success in the tournament in how we remember how good a team or player is
GBear4Life said:Leon Powe? Shareef? Powe was 1st Team all Pac as a frosh, and Shareef was POY as a frosh. Rabb was 2nd team as a frosh in a weaker conference.SFCityBear said:
I agree with SouthBender that he was not the full package, but he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
Rabb was clearly a very skilled and well rounded college big, but relative to the recruting hype as a top big man, he didn't have a stellar career. I think your points about his supporting cast are fair.
He certainly doesn't need to read these pages in order to come away with that impression.LawoftheBear said:
Wow! Very thorough discussion!
However if I am Marcus Bagley curious to read what people are writing about me, I don't know that I am coming away with a good impression about Cal basketball.
Rabb was supposedly 2" taller. I always thought of Shareef as a three, with that frame and skill set.south bender said:SFCityBear said:
he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
How about Shareef?
I think that both were about the same height.
SFCityBear
I remember Shareef as a dominant inside player, who was quite lethal close to the basket.SFCityBear said:Rabb was supposedly 2" taller. I always thought of Shareef as a three, with that frame and skill set.south bender said:SFCityBear said:
he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
How about Shareef?
I think that both were about the same height.
I guess it seems odd to me to think of him as a "3," given what that has come to mean in today's game.
.
Yeah, he had the slashing game of a 3. I don't remember if he had a long range shooting game
SFCityBear said:Rabb was supposedly 2" taller. I always thought of Shareef as a three, with that frame and skill set.south bender said:SFCityBear said:
he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
How about Shareef?
I think that both were about the same height.
Shot .381 as a Bear from three (8-21 in 28 games). .297 in his NBA career, 0.6 attempts per game. Maybe just shot a three once in a while to keep the defenders honest.HoopDreams said:
Yeah, he had the slashing game of a 3. I don't remember if he had a long range shooting gameSFCityBear said:Rabb was supposedly 2" taller. I always thought of Shareef as a three, with that frame and skill set.south bender said:SFCityBear said:
he is still the best freshman big man I've seen at Cal.
How about Shareef?
I think that both were about the same height.
SFCityBear
ASU? Oh well
I get that he probably doesn't intend to be in school for 4 years but c'mon.
What is Bobby Hurley selling over there?????
What is Bobby Hurley selling over there?????
Sunshine, sunscreen and a healthy tan
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