It has been two weeks since Houston Rockets GM Daryl Morely made his tweet in support of protestors in Hong Kong standing firm for democracy. Morely's tweet merely echoed the American people's bipartisan support for democracy and its attendant rights for citizens of Hong Kong, made clear in the 1992 United States-Hong Kong Policy Act, and now the 2019 Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act. Morely has been made to retract his statement. Lebron James, James Harden, and Dennis Rodman have supported the NBA in this action, giving tacit support to Beijing.

The response from the Chinese government was not unexpected. The response from the NBA and some of the executives and players was controversial, and not in keeping with the feelings of the majority of Americans, I would guess. Does this statement indicate that the citizens of Hong Kong should not have the rights they feel they were promised when Britain turned over the colony to China? Does it mean that the business interests of these players and NBA management is more important than the rights of the citizens of Hong Kong? Does it mean that the American people and their Congress should not be allowed to speak freely about their support for the protestors against the oppressive Communist regime in Beijing?

I find it very surprising that for two weeks, there were no posts and no discussion whatsoever in this forum about this important issue. I realize that politics are often disallowed in this forum, but this issue is about some Americans and their league playing basketball in China for money, and it is about the politics of doing so. It is also could affect college teams like Cal playing games in China, which we recently did, which also generates income. It is one thing to take advantage of the opportunity to interact with another culture, but is another thing to have to kowtow to a ruthless Communist regime, which does not allow free speech or action for its citizens in order to play these games, and make statements in public in support of this regime, which is on the verge of committing another atrocity, another Tian An Men, this time in Hong Kong.

I for one, would like to hear your thoughts on this matter, where basketball has become political. It affects all of us, and it affects the citizens of Hong Kong who oppose the regime that governs them. .

Sounds like this firmly belongs on the Pro-Basketball board , or the Off-Topic board.


Twitter works too

There is relevance: Our team went to China last year and there are potential recruits in China that could come here.

calfanz said:

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Sounds like this firmly belongs on the Pro-Basketball board , or the Off-Topic board.


Twitter works too

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We do discuss the NBA a lot here on the basketball board, and sometimes I think we discuss the NBA more than we do Cal basketball, especially in the college off-season, or if we have a hopeless team like Wyking Jones' team, so I thought it would be alright to post it here. If it gets too much interest or traction, the moderators will move it to the off topic board.

stivo said:

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Also, this is not a left or right issue or a Trump anti-Trump issue. All Americans should be horrified by the NBAs behavior.

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Very true, but it's a bit easier to be righteous when I don't have anything to lose.

stivo said:

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The NBA has exposed that it values money over people, morals, and freedom. I personally will not watch another NBA game until that changes. Lebron James and the other China apologists are scumbags.

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Hollywood does the same. Are you going to give up movies too?

helltopay1 said:

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sometimes folks get exposed for being theatrically self-righteous. steve Kerr, for one, never missed an opportunity to condemn Trump, but, when the opportunity arose to stand-up for a people yearning to be free, the insufferable Kerr sided with one of the most odious regimes the world has ever known. This is what happens when you opine in areas outside your area of expertise. Kerr knows how to be an excellent basketball coach: Sadly, he thought because he was a very good coach, that entitled him to be an expert in areas totally foreign to him. Let this be a valuable lesson for people who think that because they have one ounce of information, that entitles them to have 499 pounds of opinions. Kerr, off course, is not the only person who has been caught looking silly and craven. lebron James and the commish Mr. Silver have also been exposed for choosing money over truth and decency. What a sham..Let';s boycott the Chase Center.

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I will happily boycott the Chase Center with you!

However, you have this narrative all wrong. Kerr, who, because of his background, probably knows a fair amount about international relations, actually declined to comment, citing ignorance about the subject.

Of course, by declining to comment, he showed that he wasn't going to let his world opinions threaten the billions that the NBA is in the process of gleaning from the Chinese market. You had that part correct.

LOL, now Republicans are valuing international human rights over billions of dollars?!? Can you say "Saudi Arabia"?

Let's all -- the left and the right -- just admit what we're all about. Always have been; always gonna be. It's called the American Way. We profit.

stivo said:

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Also, this is not a left or right issue or a Trump anti-Trump issue. All Americans should be horrified by the NBAs behavior.

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I don't understand - Adam Silver has said publicly that Daryl Morey and everyone else in the NBA has a right to free speech. Why should I be "horrified by the NBAs behavior"?

dear 75: Silver also said that "there are consequences to what you say." Gee----I wonder what he meant. translation: You can say any damn thing you please--just make sure we agree with what you said." You will notice that the poor guy was intimidated and back-tracked right away after he learned that Silver spoke of "consequences." Nike, communist China and the NBA are all in bed together. No----not to have sex-----something far more pleasurable----just keep the money rolling baby!!i'm through with the NBA--everyone is free to make his own call..

Ask yourself this question.

What's more likely to promote democracy in China?

The nba being a fixture in Chinese culture?

Or morey's tweet?

This was actually the topic of a West Wing episode. Sorkin basically made the argument that, for all practical purposes.
the fastest way to bring democracy/human rights to China is not to continuously condemn them, but to westernize them.

TheSouseFamily said:

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Thank Oski that Trump himself is above theatrical self-righteousness and would never dare stoop to such a level.

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Right? China horrible, while Russia, North Korea and Saudi Arabia are his buddies? But let's attack NBA coaches for not having an opinion about Hong Kong's sovereignty?

MinotStateBeav said:

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ducky23 said:

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Ask yourself this question.

What's more likely to promote democracy in China?

The nba being a fixture in Chinese culture?

Or morey's tweet?

This was actually the topic of a West Wing episode. Sorkin basically made the argument that, for all practical purposes.
the fastest way to bring democracy/human rights to China is not to continuously condemn them, but to westernize them.

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I honestly see China being more authoritarian. Look how they treat their neighbors around the South China sea. I don't know the answers, it looked for awhile that China was opening up, but there's been a noticeable shift since they named Xi president forever with China looking far more aggressive and distrusting.

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South China Sea? Duterte loves the Chinese. It is the US that has the strongest objection there even though we have no real skin in the game.

Except for Tibet and the Muslim regions, the authoritarian/totalitarian nature of the regime is largely directed internally and that is what so many in Hong Kong do not want to be a part of. I am not sure what legal recourse they really have though. There was a much stronger argument against Hong Kong as a British colony than as an integrated part of China once returned. One county two systems was not long term stable. That is why so many HK Chinese left for Vancouver, London, etc. If the Brits had given HK independence decades ago maybe they'd have a chance now.

A friend of mine that I grew up with in LA who then went to UCLA went there as an exec for Disney and now lives in Beijing where he started his own movie studio, producing Chinese language movies. He consistently finds fault with most of the US narrative about China.

It's part of the selective outrage machine the SJWs play. It exposed what most of us knew all along. That there is a disingenuous tinge to the grievances they announce -- that it's not really about the injustice itself, or improving outcomes. There is a different set of rules for the grievances they find convenient to protest or speak out on (race, police, etc).

Imagine LeMao James telling Kaepernick he needs to realize how his protest "has negative affects or how it impacts others", or telling NBA players that about Donald Sterling. But on issues that are objectively more grave and urgent, like human rights, they sing a different tune. Criticizing Morey's timing (I don't think he had any idea China would respond at all) or refusing to comment would be fair if they hadn't stridently set the gauntlet already. Everybody needed to care about their grievances, however misguided or trivial (relatively speaking, e.g. Sterling). LeMao openly contradicted himself saying "not everybody's problem is everybody's issue".

Again, it's fair to criticize Morey (as it's fair to criticize Kaepernick, for example) for a relatively tactless form of "virtue signaling" given his role in the NBA and their relationship with China. But you can't once you've played the "game" these characters have been playing.

Kerr's response was an absolute joke. He all of a sudden lost his ball sack.

Sterling tells mistress please don't post pics on IG of you and your black friends -- NBA players: "what a disgrace, we're gonna boycott games til something is done about this!!!!"

Anti democracy authoritarian government human rights crisis in a country they are playing games -- James Harden: " I love everything about China!"

helltopay1 said:

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Dear big C: Kerr professed ignorance about a communist regime which has been enslaving its own people for 30 years and has been stealing American property for the same amount of time????what has he been doing--watching re-runs of Married with children for the last 3o years??As Bill walton would say, "PLEASE"!!!yes--traditional americans value our free enterprise system---also, most americans follow world events and know totalitarian, dangerous countries when they see them ( especially in the age of social media) every seven year-old child knows about communist China--it is disappointing fore you to make excuses for Kerr--"Golly gee---it's a complex issue..i'm still studying the issue and I don't have anything to say tonight." You will notice that he didn't say that he would issue a report in the near future. I guess "he's still studying the issue." Please look up phony hypocrites in the dictionary..

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I'm not making excuses for him. Reread what you wrote and my response to what you wrote. I expect that Kerr knows a thing or two about international relations (he's learned, smart and his dad worked for the State Dept.). His denying to speak about the subject surely had to do with the billions of dollars that are in the mix between China and US basketball.

As to the subject itself, we have always balanced our financial interests with our interests in international human rights. The President recently rationalized our relations with Saudi Arabia with the same argument. It's what we do.

Dear Big C: Kerr is smart. but, being smart is no excuse for hypocrisy and phony- virtue-signaling. There are so many Cal grads on this site who either apologize for Communist China , or, rationalize their apology by saying that we have always tried to balance commerce with trying to be a strong voice for human rights. During thge cold war, there was no balancing act with the communist regime in the Soviet Union. Before Obama, we didn't;'t balance anything with Cuba. Before we got energy independence due to oil & gas exploration in our own country, it was true that we had to look the other way when dealing with Saudi Arabia. Cal has had a left-wing reputation beginning with the Vietnam war. It is a reputation which , for the most part, is richly deserved. It is not for nothing that Cal is described as Bezerkely by most of middle america. kerrs' Dad worked for thge State dept????All the more reason he should have known better. by the way, the State Dept is usually described as "foggy bottom." no---not because Hillary was the recent chief---the "foggy bottom" moniker goes back decades. Richly deserved.

Gbear4life: bingo!!!!!

Dear helltopay1 and GBear4Life: I don't disagree with you regarding Kerr's statement. I'm just saying that, throughout our history, we have at times sided with despot regimes because of financial or security interests..

If I was offered $500,000 to do a commercial for The Wonderful Chinese Government, I would have to consider it, even though I don't think they're all that wonderful.

Steve Kerr's a smart guy. I'm sure he knows about the China situation and, because of his past political leanings, I'm guessing he supports Hong Kong. It's possible Kerr didn't want to screw up his players' multi- million dollar shoe deals. Can't blame him for that. I'm sure if push came to shove and it was mostly his interests on the line, he'd stand up for what's right.
SF Chronicle:
"Anta, which sponsors the shoes of three Warriors players, said Wednesday that it will immediately stop contract renewal negotiations with the NBA in response to Daryl Morey's social media post."

'all that wonderful'??would you consider 500,000 from the nazi regime even though " they weren't wonderful"/ soviet Union during the cold war?/Cuba? Iran? north Korea? Imperial Japan during WW2? Ancient Rome as they sent your family to the colosseum to be slaughtered by wild animals??In other words, where do you draw the line??

How businesses are silenced by China, Russia and Saudi Arabia - Axios


https://www.axios.com/authoritarian-hush-money-china-russia-saudi-arabia-a27fb7b6-1368-4018-a864-b5d5dc59286b.html

" You might be a rock 'n' roll addict prancing on the stage
You might have drugs at your command, women in a cage
You may be a business man or some high-degree thief
They may call you doctor or they may call you chief
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes you are
You're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody"
Bob Dylan

Dear barrister: yep---boy...that bob dylan>>>>>he rivals William Shakespeare when it comes to human insight..

bearister said:

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How businesses are silenced by China, Russia and Saudi Arabia - Axios


https://www.axios.com/authoritarian-hush-money-china-russia-saudi-arabia-a27fb7b6-1368-4018-a864-b5d5dc59286b.html

" You might be a rock 'n' roll addict prancing on the stage
You might have drugs at your command, women in a cage
You may be a business man or some high-degree thief
They may call you doctor or they may call you chief
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes you are
You're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody"
Bob Dylan

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Little known fact: Bob Dylan was a process server before becoming a musical icon.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear barrister: yep---boy...that bob dylan>>>>>he rivals William Shakespeare when it comes to human insight..

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Bob Dylan
The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016
Born: 24 May 1941, Duluth, MN, USA
Prize motivation: "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition."

May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the light surrounding you
May you always be courageous
Stand upright and be strong
May you stay forever young
May you stay forever young