All this negativity is just plain nuts

13,370 Views | 134 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by SFCityBear
SFCityBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:20p, 12/8/19
I don't know what makes us Cal fans so starved for a good basketball team, or so spoiled that we think we deserve one, or so impatient that we think a team loaded with freshmen all playing for a new coach should have jelled into good team after a handful of practice games.

You all played basketball, or at least have watched a lot of basketball. How long did it take you to develop into the player you became, and how long did it take for you and your teammates to become a good team? When you were a freshman in high school, did you start for the varsity on day one? Or did it take you some time to earn a starting job? How many high school freshmen are capable of starting for their varsity team? How many college freshmen are good enough to start for their college varsity as freshmen? And not just start, but be effective?

How many freshmen have come to Cal and been effective players as freshmen? Jerome Randle was a little kid as a freshman He could shoot, but not threes, and he made turnovers and could not guard anybody. The freshman Tajuan Porter of Oregon ate him alive as a freshman, owned him. 3 years later, Randle was PAC12 POY and Porter was all but forgotten. Cal has several freshmen now, some ranked, some not. Some may develop, and some may not, but how they play as freshman probably means next to nothing.

Remember Jimbo Lull of USF, the team which beat our butts a few days ago? Here is his career from sports-reference.com:

1st year: 4 PTs, 2Rebs
2nd year: 4PTs, 3 Rebs
3rd year: 9 PTs, 5 Rebs
This year: 13 PTs, 8 Rebs

Or Jamaree Bouyea?

1st year: 2 PTs, 1 Assist
2nd year: 6 PTs, 1 Assist
This year: 15 PTs, 4 Assists

So how good would USF be if Kyle Smith had given up on these players as freshmen?

Remember Frankie Ferrari of USF, the team which blew Cal out of Haas last season? He was a Rex Walters recruit but played 3 years for Smith.

1st year: 1 PT, 1 Assist
2nd year: 5 PTS, 2 Assists
3rd year: 11 PTs, 5 Assists
Last year: 15 PTs, 6 Assists

Many players get better with age, maturity, coaching, and experience. Mark Fox has an even mix of 6 Wyking/Cuonzo recruits and 6 of his own recruits. It is better not to judge a team fairly until all the recruits are his alone. All of USF's rotation players are Kyle Smith's recruits, and have been playing in Kyle Smith's system, which I expect was kept in place by coach Golden, for two or three years. All of Santa Clara's rotation players are Herb Sendek's recruits, and all except Williams, the only freshman, have been playing in Sendek's system for at least a year or two. That would include two Sendek transfers who sat out last year and are playing as juniors this year. The point is they all had at least a year in his system. The Cal players have had 9 games in Mark Fox's system. That is one reason Cal lost to USF and Santa Clara. You fans who have gone full blown negative on this team all expect way too much, way too soon, all IMO.
Reply Quote
18
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:43p, 12/8/19
Good post.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
bonsallbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:53p, 12/8/19
It's likely most posters didn't play competitive ball . But they are legends in their own minds.
Reply Quote
2
Oakbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:18p, 12/8/19
don't disagree with your post, but Fox' this years recruits are al (wth the exception of Brown)l really hope to bes.. the two for next year are also hope to be's..

i have been around long enough to know that most of the hope to be's just don't turn into quality D1 players

I am hopeful that I am wrong, and you are correcf, it is too early to tell, but my hopes are way low for not only this year but next.. then in year three, if things aren't a lot better another coaching change and more years of frustration

at this poiint all I can hope is that Fox is really good and that the rush job they did in hiring him was a really good job ..
Reply Quote
1
stu
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bonsallbear • 11:28p, 12/8/19
bonsallbear said:
It's likely most posters didn't play competitive ball . But they are legends in their own minds.
I didn't. And I'm not even a legend on BI.

I agree with SFCityBear on improvement. My question is whether the development of our freshmen will more resemble that of Darrall Imhoff or of Kahlil Johnson. Probably somewhere in between, hoping our coaches make it closer to Imhoff.
Reply Quote
Pigskin Pete
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:30p, 12/8/19
I stopped developing once I mastered the potty shot. So, it didn't take that long for me to develop into the player I ultimately was.
Reply Quote
dimitrig
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:25a, 12/9/19

I appreciate the positive spin, but for Cal to be the 4th best team in the Bay Area - at best - is really underachieving by any measure.

The Bears put how many players into the NBA and we got CREAMED by Santa Clara? Cal State Fullerton kept it closer!

This is a pretty low point for the program.





Reply Quote
3
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to dimitrig • 7:31a, 12/9/19
dimitrig said:

I appreciate the positive spin, but for Cal to be the 4th best team in the Bay Area - at best - is really underachieving by any measure.

The Bears put how many players into the NBA and we got CREAMED by Santa Clara? Cal State Fullerton kept it closer!

This is a pretty low point for the program.







...and the lowest point is the guy that steered the ship to 16 consecutive losses.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
parentswerebears
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bonsallbear • 8:40a, 12/9/19
I Am Legend!

GOAT.
Reply Quote
1 edit
RedlessWardrobe
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:28a, 12/9/19
SF City, you make valid points. The majority of us realize that this is a difficult situation. But did you see the Santa Clara game? My negativity doesn't stem from what we have, but after watching that last game, it really appears that this team is regressing. Hope I'm wrong about it.
Reply Quote
3
PtownBear1
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:44a, 12/9/19
Some good points in the OP, but where's all this negativity? Maybe I missed something but there seems to be a pretty minimal amount given the circumstances. I would expect other fan boards would be 100x worse if they had a 2 and 1/3 season span of basketball the likes of which we've witnessed, especially after a decade of 20 win seasons being the norm.

Actually the level of activity seems to indicate the majority of fans have just tuned out...
Reply Quote
4
socaltownie
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 10:42a, 12/9/19
RedlessWardrobe said:
SF City, you make valid points. The majority of us realize that this is a difficult situation. But did you see the Santa Clara game? My negativity doesn't stem from what we have, but after watching that last game, it really appears that this team is regressing. Hope I'm wrong about it.
That is my point. Get past the numbers SFC - it is EYEBALL tests

Lars just can not jump. You don't really teach that (oh you can work on/put on core strength to help) it but it is twitch reflex muscles and generally speaking guys have it or not). Dude can not even DUNK when given the ball or rebound a FOOT from the rim. The announcers have ALL noticed it - PLEADING with him to go up strong. Perhaps learning but I fear that is who he is.

KK and DJ can't crack the line up even with the challenges we have. Fox is supposedly a taskmaster. My goodness, wouldn't you think the umpteenth time that Lars got owned we would have seen those guys for some extended minutes? The fact that not suggests that Lars is BETTER. That is, at best, concerning and at worst all the reason for all the negativity I can muster.

Brown is going to have to break down and start over on his shot mechanics. So we have ANOTHER point guard (cause he is the heir for a while) who teams will simply sag off of. The good news is that he can already defend so PERHAPS he can contribute at Pac-12 levels.

Again - I am NOT sure that Fox should have not simply held 2 rides back.

Look, the first 4 games were "fun" but it is so clear from watching the next 5 that coaches are not stupid. Cal, right now, is EXTREMELY easy to scheme.

1) "OK guys. Feed the post. Even marginal players can own their bigs. If they double kick out to our wings who will get to step into wide open threes because their help defenders other than Matt Bradley are slow. WHomever Bradley is guarding go weak side and, get this, look at the tape how SLLLOOOOOOWWWW grant is getting out on you. Bubba....enjoy your loooks.

2) Defensively is really simple. WHomever on Bradley go over the screen. The rest of you go under. DOn't worry about Grant. He isn't a shooter who can hit off the dribble and his handle is weak. NO NEED to help down. THey can't score in the post. Don't worry about the pick and pop. No one can do that either EXCEPT Grant so take that away. Probably just switch when he is screening. Feel free to let them drive so you can body because they don't have front line players that are capable of finishing on the dish.


Seriously - that is the pre-game walk through against us ALL year. That is why I am negative.
Take care of your Chicken
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
HoopDreams
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to socaltownie • 11:50a, 12/9/19
No problem with being negative. This year is disappointing and frustrating, with an uncertain outlook for the rest of the season

Are we net better than last last year? Not sure, but I think most of the Pac12 is better.

The one player we could not afford to lose was Justice. The other two loses were also impactful, but Sueing was our key player.

If you looked at any of my early posts before start of season and after our early wins, I was only cautiously optimistic as I saw the challenges we have, including youth and lack of size.

We needed success OOC because I expected a very rough conference and one of the most important goals for the season (for me) is to come out of the season feeling good about ourselves. I called the SC game a 'must win' not because of the W/L record, but for team confidence/unity.

So besides complaining, what do you want to do?

Stop going to games, stop watching the games, or just give up completely?

You might choose that as others have.

Fire the coach?

A poor solution and unrealistic

Get better players?

That is a major key. We've had some success with international recruits, but our key US recruiter only has East/Midwest connections, and what has that got us? (maybe one good grad transfer)

I think we need to be strong in California and West Coast recruiting

That is something I think we can improve in the relative short term

I support the team (and the coach) until they are no longer at Cal. Therefore I prefer to discuss the situation in a balanced way as much as possible, focusing on things we can control


socaltownie said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
SF City, you make valid points. The majority of us realize that this is a difficult situation. But did you see the Santa Clara game? My negativity doesn't stem from what we have, but after watching that last game, it really appears that this team is regressing. Hope I'm wrong about it.
That is my point. Get past the numbers SFC - it is EYEBALL tests

Lars just can not jump. You don't really teach that (oh you can work on/put on core strength to help) it but it is twitch reflex muscles and generally speaking guys have it or not). Dude can not even DUNK when given the ball or rebound a FOOT from the rim. The announcers have ALL noticed it - PLEADING with him to go up strong. Perhaps learning but I fear that is who he is.

KK and DJ can't crack the line up even with the challenges we have. Fox is supposedly a taskmaster. My goodness, wouldn't you think the umpteenth time that Lars got owned we would have seen those guys for some extended minutes? The fact that not suggests that Lars is BETTER. That is, at best, concerning and at worst all the reason for all the negativity I can muster.

Brown is going to have to break down and start over on his shot mechanics. So we have ANOTHER point guard (cause he is the heir for a while) who teams will simply sag off of. The good news is that he can already defend so PERHAPS he can contribute at Pac-12 levels.

Again - I am NOT sure that Fox should have not simply held 2 rides back.

Look, the first 4 games were "fun" but it is so clear from watching the next 5 that coaches are not stupid. Cal, right now, is EXTREMELY easy to scheme.

1) "OK guys. Feed the post. Even marginal players can own their bigs. If they double kick out to our wings who will get to step into wide open threes because their help defenders other than Matt Bradley are slow. WHomever Bradley is guarding go weak side and, get this, look at the tape how SLLLOOOOOOWWWW grant is getting out on you. Bubba....enjoy your loooks.

2) Defensively is really simple. WHomever on Bradley go over the screen. The rest of you go under. DOn't worry about Grant. He isn't a shooter who can hit off the dribble and his handle is weak. NO NEED to help down. THey can't score in the post. Don't worry about the pick and pop. No one can do that either EXCEPT Grant so take that away. Probably just switch when he is screening. Feel free to let them drive so you can body because they don't have front line players that are capable of finishing on the dish.


Seriously - that is the pre-game walk through against us ALL year. That is why I am negative.
Reply Quote
1
oskidunker
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:16p, 12/9/19
They do look worse. Lets hope home cooking changes that.
Go Bears!
Reply Quote
calgo430
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:39p, 12/9/19
its tough to win on the road. just my opinion we will play better at haas. we could use a shooter/scorer who can take the pressure off bradley. i thought south was a possibility but so far a little disappointing.
Reply Quote
SFCityBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 5:09p, 12/11/19
RedlessWardrobe said:
SF City, you make valid points. The majority of us realize that this is a difficult situation. But did you see the Santa Clara game? My negativity doesn't stem from what we have, but after watching that last game, it really appears that this team is regressing. Hope I'm wrong about it.
No. Redless, I apologize, but unfortunately, I could not go to Santa Clara, and I didn't see the Santa Clara game. I am just not technologically competent enough to be able to stream a game and have it be watchable. Last time I tried it, a Cal player shot a free throw, and the video stream, both the video and the sound, froze with the ball in mid-air. After several seconds, the video stream resumed and showed the other team bringing the ball up the court against a press, with the announcers describing that in real time. I never found out if the Cal player made the free throw or not. This happened a few more times where the video and sound froze, and I resolved never to watch another streamed game. I'd rather listen on the radio.

I hope we are not regressing, but let's wait and see.
Reply Quote
RedlessWardrobe
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to SFCityBear • 9:21a, 12/12/19
SFCityBear said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
SF City, you make valid points. The majority of us realize that this is a difficult situation. But did you see the Santa Clara game? My negativity doesn't stem from what we have, but after watching that last game, it really appears that this team is regressing. Hope I'm wrong about it.
No. Redless, I apologize, but unfortunately, I could not go to Santa Clara, and I didn't see the Santa Clara game. I am just not technologically competent enough to be able to stream a game and have it be watchable. Last time I tried it, a Cal player shot a free throw, and the video stream, both the video and the sound, froze with the ball in mid-air. After several seconds, the video stream resumed and showed the other team bringing the ball up the court against a press, with the announcers describing that in real time. I never found out if the Cal player made the free throw or not. This happened a few more times where the video and sound froze, and I resolved never to watch another streamed game. I'd rather listen on the radio.

I hope we are not regressing, but let's wait and see.
Over simplified observation by me but so far we are way better at home. Saturday night against St.Mary's will be the first home game that we will be a decisive underdog. How we perform in this game will probably be the best indication of what kind of Pac12 season we will have.
Reply Quote
BearlyCareAnymore
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 9:46a, 12/12/19
RedlessWardrobe said:
SFCityBear said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
SF City, you make valid points. The majority of us realize that this is a difficult situation. But did you see the Santa Clara game? My negativity doesn't stem from what we have, but after watching that last game, it really appears that this team is regressing. Hope I'm wrong about it.
No. Redless, I apologize, but unfortunately, I could not go to Santa Clara, and I didn't see the Santa Clara game. I am just not technologically competent enough to be able to stream a game and have it be watchable. Last time I tried it, a Cal player shot a free throw, and the video stream, both the video and the sound, froze with the ball in mid-air. After several seconds, the video stream resumed and showed the other team bringing the ball up the court against a press, with the announcers describing that in real time. I never found out if the Cal player made the free throw or not. This happened a few more times where the video and sound froze, and I resolved never to watch another streamed game. I'd rather listen on the radio.

I hope we are not regressing, but let's wait and see.
Over simplified observation by me but so far we are way better at home. Saturday night against St.Mary's will be the first home game that we will be a decisive underdog. How we perform in this game will probably be the best indication of what kind of Pac12 season we will have.
It could be that we are playing better at home, but the scores don't really indicate that. The teams we've played on the road have been a lot better than the teams we've played at home, and we've had mostly close wins at home.
Reply Quote
2
mbBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bonsallbear • 9:48a, 12/12/19
bonsallbear said:
It's likely most posters didn't play competitive ball . But they are legends in their own minds.
I think the opposite is true: posters who played some HS ball, maybe a Church league or two, think they understand what is involved with D-1 athletics, that somehow it compares to their own experiences....
Reply Quote
ducky23
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:06a, 12/12/19
Ok here's my $.02.

I think we can all agree Fox was dealt a 2-7 offsuit. And that no one was going to turn this thing around immediately. And I'm sure that Fox is a perfectly OK coach who would be a perfectly fine choice to take over a somewhat stable program.

The problem is that this is not anything close to a healthy basketball program right now. And, so far, its unclear to me that Fox is the right choice to save a sinking ship.

Yes, there is a major talent deficiency. But Fox does not have a track record being able to bring in talent. And already, he failed to keep some key pieces from transferring (this has been his key failure so far). This team would be completely different with Sueing and Vanover. And while he gets a pass on this year's recruits, it does not seem like next year's class is going to be enough to really start turning the program around.

Second, I worry that he's going to lose this team once the losing really starts coming. Its unclear to me that this team has completely bought into what Fox is selling. Being able to motivate and communicate with your players is a key ability all good coaches must have. I'm not sure Fox necessarily has this skill. So what happens if there's mass defections again? Do we have to start all over again? And if we have to start all over, how do we ever start attracting the recruits we need to turn the program around?

So to me, it just seems like a vicious cycle. For arguments sake, lets say that Fox is a great tactician. Fine. But we all agree that a team cannot properly execute even the best laid plans without talent. But what if you struggle to consistently bring in talent? Or what if you cannot keep the talent you are able to bring in? You keep losing. Which makes recruiting and motivating all the more difficult.

This is why I was advocating for a high risk/high reward coach from the start. You needed someone who, above all else, could recruit, lead and motivate. The X's and O's could wait.

Its still early though. Fox has time to prove me wrong. I don't think games are going to be all that competitive once Pac-12 season starts. However, to me, the wins and losses are pretty irrelevant at this point. What I'll be looking for is whether the kids keep playing hard, whether they keep buying into Fox's system and whether you start seeing individual player development. If Fox can get that out of the team by season end, I'll be happy.
Reply Quote
1
3Cats4CAL
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:30a, 12/12/19
Who were all these other primo coaches burning down our doors and salivating waiting to be offered and take on the job with the talent on hand ?
Reply Quote
2
sandiegobears
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ducky23 • 11:55a, 12/12/19
To be clear, I am not a huge fan of SFCityBear's posts, they are long-winded and blindingly argumentative. But in this case (the original post), he is correct.

Here is what is clear:

1. Not many coveted this job, and getting a high-risk coach is exactly what we didn't need. It's exactly what Martin was (in his way, a massive recruiter, but terrible at X's and O's) and Wyking was (in his way, incredibly inexperienced). We needed solid and Fox is that. BTW, Monty was solid, he was not a great recruiter and he was VERY experienced.

2. This team is not nearly as talented as last year's team. And yet, they have somehow managed to win 6 games already. I can't predict what will happen in P12 play, there appear to be some quality teams in the conference. I expected worse so far actually, but the results are better. And do I expect that things will go up and down throughout the year. However, I think the overall trend will be better play as they learn more, but the results may not show it because the opponents will be better.

3. Not one person started a positive thread after the win over Fresno State. Not one. The negativity is on here is overwhelming, and my friends would not exactly accuse me of being a Posi-bear. This is going to take time, folks.

And for full transparency...never played hoops, way too short. lol.
Reply Quote
1 edit
ducky23
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:31p, 12/12/19
Like I said earlier, it's still early. Only time will tell if Fox was the right hire.

However, at this point, I think we can agree to the following:

The two biggest concerns with Fox when he was hired was his recruiting track record and his ability to motivate a bunch of 18-21 year old kids.

So far, he has done nothing to alleviate those concerns. We can all agree to that, correct?

Now things may change. I hope they do. But until I see an actual change in direction with those two things, my expectations will be for us to be mediocre for the next 3-4 years.

I guess here's the question. What's the reasonable timetable Fox should get to have this team in the tournament again?

For me, for year 1, I expected player improvement/development and at least 1-2 recruits to get excited about, year 2 challenge for the NIT, year 3 challenge for the bubble, and by year 4-5 make the tourney.

I don't see us being on that trajectory currently. I see a freshman class that may have some talent but it's still unclear whether any will make it. I see an average to below average incoming class. And I see at least 1-2 transfers after this year.

Again. Hope I'm wrong.
Reply Quote
HoopDreams
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 12:57p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
Not one person started a positive thread after the win over Fresno State. Not one. The negativity is on here is overwhelming, and my friends would not exactly accuse me of being a Posi-bear. This is going to take time, folks.


Speaking for myself only, I was at the game and got home late. I certainly posted some positive comments very late inside other threads
Reply Quote
BearlyCareAnymore
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 12:57p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
To be clear, I am not a huge fan of SFCityBear's posts, they are long-winded and blindingly argumentative. But in this case (the original post), he is correct.

Here is what is clear:

1. Not many coveted this job, and getting a high-risk coach is exactly what we didn't need. It's exactly what Martin was (in his way, a massive recruiter, but terrible at X's and O's) and Wyking was (in his way, incredibly inexperienced). We needed solid and Fox is that. BTW, Monty was solid, he was not a great recruiter and he was VERY experienced.

2. This team is not nearly as talented as last year's team. And yet, they have somehow managed to win 6 games already. I can't predict what will happen in P12 play, there appear to be some quality teams in the conference. I expected worse so far actually, but the results are better. And do I expect that things will go up and down throughout the year. However, I think the overall trend will be better play as they learn more, but the results may not show it because the opponents will be better.

3. Not one person started a positive thread after the win over Fresno State. Not one. The negativity is on here is overwhelming, and my friends would not exactly accuse me of being a Posi-bear. This is going to take time, folks.

And for full transparency...never played hoops, way too short. lol.
1. Monty inherited a really talented roster which is why a solid coach was a good choice at THAT time. Our primary issue with this team is a completely deficient roster which is why job 1 was getting someone who could fix that roster. FWIW, Monty would have been the wrong hire this year also.

2. Have you looked at the records of the teams we have beaten? I'm guessing no.

3. We beat a 2-7 Mountain West team by 6 points at home. I'm glad we won. after the last 2 years we can't sneeze at any wins. But how positive do you want people to be? We beat Santa Clara and San Diego State last year. Was there a lot of positivity? Should there have been?

This team has actually pretty well slotted itself in its results. All the results from this year would have pointed to a reasonably close victory against FSU. Wins and losses do have to be looked at in view of competition. Losing to Duke doesn't mean bad and beating Prairie View doesn't mean good.
Reply Quote
2
sluggo
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ducky23 • 1:04p, 12/12/19
ducky23 said:
Like I said earlier, it's still early. Only time will tell if Fox was the right hire.

However, at this point, I think we can agree to the following:

The two biggest concerns with Fox when he was hired was his recruiting track record and his ability to motivate a bunch of 18-21 year old kids.

So far, he has done nothing to alleviate those concerns. We can all agree to that, correct?

I am not sure if we are supposed to agree about what the two biggest concerns are or that he has not alleviated those concerns. My biggest concern is that his teams don't run a good offense. I still have that concern. I admit to not having watched as much recently as early in the season, but I mostly saw isolation drives and high pick and rolls. There was a little action away from the ball, certainly more than under WJ, but not nearly enough. I did see good defense with little to work with. So Fox, at least early, seemed as advertised.

I was hoping for a coach who would succeed if they were lucky enough to recruit the right guys. I am not sure he is that guy. Way too early to say.

Sluggo
Reply Quote
sandiegobears
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BearlyCareAnymore • 2:29p, 12/12/19
Of anyone on here, your opinions have been the most aligned to mine over the years, typically well reasoned. I don't post often and I won't take your 2nd point as a dig since we don't have history, but I recognize well the competition hasn't been great. Otoh, Chaminade???

I just think everyone is being way too negative. If someone high level (high risk?) was interested in this job, I think we'd have made it work. There are no guarantees in life, this may well not work out, but if people think the BDW that we were will be fixed in one year, they are crazy. And while I recognize that many didn't like the hire, we can't keep complaining about it forever, can we?
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
BeachedBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 2:29p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
. . .

3. Not one person started a positive thread after the win over Fresno State. Not one. The negativity is on here is overwhelming, and my friends would not exactly accuse me of being a Posi-bear. This is going to take time, folks.

. . .
I think everyone was waiting for sandiegobears to start the positive thread.
Reply Quote
1
Civil Bear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 2:35p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
I just think everyone is being way too negative. If someone high level (high risk?) was interested in this job, I think we'd have made it work.
I believe the "high risk" comment was deliberate (ie. an unproven up & comer, eg. Travis DeCuire). However, all reports suggest Fox was exactly what Knowlton was looking for (ie. a vet who will try to bring stability).
Reply Quote
1 edit
BearlyCareAnymore
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 3:01p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
Of anyone on here, your opinions have been the most aligned to mine over the years, typically well reasoned. I don't post often and I won't take your 2nd point as a dig since we don't have history, but I recognize well the competition hasn't been great. Otoh, Chaminade???

I just think everyone is being way too negative. If someone high level (high risk?) was interested in this job, I think we'd have made it work. There are no guarantees in life, this may well not work out, but if people think the BDW that we were will be fixed in one year, they are crazy. And while I recognize that many didn't like the hire, we can't keep complaining about it forever, can we?
It honestly wasn't meant as a dig. In good years, bad years and in between years this is a constant theme I notice. People do not pay attention to the quality of opponents so in past years you may see people panic when we are 3-4 on the way to an 11-7 record, while being stoked at 5-2 on the way to an 11-7 record. Hell even with football, everyone is whistling a happy tune at our offense moving the ball against 3 of the worst defenses in America after being down in the dumps when our offense didn't move the ball against top defenses.

So it wasn't meant as a dig at you. But I did suspect that since you were complaining about no positive thread about beating 2-7 FSU, that you didn't know quite how bad FSU is this year. The records of the teams we have beaten are truly dreadful. On the flip side, we haven't really lost to a team with a bad record. But the several close games against really bad teams is very concerning.
Reply Quote
2
annarborbear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:18p, 12/12/19
Montana is off to a 4-5 start this year, and DeCuire wasn't much of a recruiter while he was here.
Reply Quote
1 edit
Pigskin Pete
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 3:46p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
Not one person started a positive thread after the win over Fresno State.
I haven't seen the game yet. We tried the end of the Warrior game and then couldn't stay up to watch Cal too.
Reply Quote
TheFiatLux
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to 3Cats4CAL • 3:55p, 12/12/19
3Cats4CAL said:
Who were all these other primo coaches burning down our doors and salivating waiting to be offered and take on the job with the talent on hand ?
We'll never know because bungled the process - the entire process - so badly. Just rank amateurism.
Reply Quote
SFCityBear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sandiegobears • 8:40p, 12/12/19
sandiegobears said:
To be clear, I am not a huge fan of SFCityBear's posts, they are long-winded and blindingly argumentative. But in this case (the original post), he is correct.

Here is what is clear:

1. Not many coveted this job, and getting a high-risk coach is exactly what we didn't need. It's exactly what Martin was (in his way, a massive recruiter, but terrible at X's and O's) and Wyking was (in his way, incredibly inexperienced). We needed solid and Fox is that. BTW, Monty was solid, he was not a great recruiter and he was VERY experienced.

2. This team is not nearly as talented as last year's team. And yet, they have somehow managed to win 6 games already. I can't predict what will happen in P12 play, there appear to be some quality teams in the conference. I expected worse so far actually, but the results are better. And do I expect that things will go up and down throughout the year. However, I think the overall trend will be better play as they learn more, but the results may not show it because the opponents will be better.

3. Not one person started a positive thread after the win over Fresno State. Not one. The negativity is on here is overwhelming, and my friends would not exactly accuse me of being a Posi-bear. This is going to take time, folks.

And for full transparency...never played hoops, way too short. lol.
We may have disagreed in the past, but I hope I didn't offend you with my posts. I'm glad to have your support on this topic, at least. Negativity or pessimism doesn't usually breed success in anything. I have made too many negative posts here myself, criticizing a coach or a player too strongly, so I will try and take my own advice.

I read Coach Fox's interview after the game and he said that at one point he had to stand up and try and exhort the fans in Haas to start making some noise to cheer the team on. He should not have to do that. We should be doing the cheering without being asked to do so by the coach or the players, shouldn't we? Kelly also talked about when the fans got more into the game, the players drew energy from that.

Future recruits and their families will be coming to our games, and a positive atmosphere in Haas will be a plus for Cal in the minds of recruits. The kids want to have fun playing games, and hearing a lot of charged-up Cal fans can only be a positive for Cal. Who knows, maybe some players, recruits and families might even read what we post on this forum, so it would be good to reduce some of the negative stuff we post here down to just realistic criticism, all IMO.
Reply Quote
5
1 edit
oskidunker
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:43p, 12/12/19
People were too busy with their phones. I forgot mine and it was great.
Go Bears!
Reply Quote
Last Page
Page 1 of 4 ▼
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.