Entered the transfer portal, per Verbalcommits.com

BerkeleyBAT said:

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Entered the transfer portal, per Verbalcommits.com

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too bad. he could have helped, but I guess he wants a bigger role

Agreed, I thought he could have been an x-factor for next year. With JHD I always felt like he was on the verge of turning the cornerthought it could happen for him here as a senior. Best of luck Juhwan.

I hope J H-D finds a great new opportunity and that Mark Fox can convince the 6'5" sharpshooting University of PA Wing to take his GT year as a member of the Bears. That simple move would give the next year's roster a massive boost.

Sad to see JHD go, but this might hint at some good news in the future.

Maybe Fox thinks he can fill 3 open schollies with 2 grad transfers (Buggs and Betley?) and 1 sit-out transfer (Hyder?) [Option A]

Or two sit out transfers (Hyder and Flowers) and a grad transfer like Buggs? [Option B]

If Fox could pull off either of those, it would be quite the save for this year's recruiting class.

[OPTION A] makes us potentially competitive next year and gives us a second PG of the future.

This potential 2020/21 rotation is experienced and somewhat deep (especially if KK and Thorpe make big leaps)

1. Buggs (SR) / Brown (SO)
2. Bradley (JR) / Buggs or Brown
3. Betley (SR) / Kuany (SO)
4. Anticevic (SR) / Thorpe (SO) or Kuany
5. Kelly (JR) / Thiemann (SO)


[OPTION B] would make us just okay next year but would make us a fringe tourney team in 2021/2022 with a potential lineup of:

1. Brown (JR) / Hyder (SO)
2. Flowers (SR) / Bowser (SO) or Celestine (SO)
3. Bradley (SR) / Kuany (JR)
4. Kuany (JR) / Thorpe (JR)
5. Kelly (SR) / Thiemann (JR)

Or, quite possibly, JHD's transfer means nothing and we don't land any of these targets. Hope that's not the case!

Didn't he enter it last year, too? Second time around, I bet they wouldn't want him back anymore. Too bad it didn't work out.

I wish him the best and hope we can replace him with an outside shooter.

HoopDreams said:

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BerkeleyBAT said:

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Entered the transfer portal, per Verbalcommits.com

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too bad. he could have helped, but I guess he wants a bigger role

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...or it's academics.

HoopDreams said:

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BerkeleyBAT said:

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Entered the transfer portal, per Verbalcommits.com

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too bad. he could have helped, but I guess he wants a bigger role

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Cal down to two scholarships players who can dribble the ball up the court, one of whom is not a good candidate because he is supposed to carry the offense. This could be a problem.

Sluggo

ManBearLion123 said:

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Sad to see JHD go, but this might hint at some good news in the future.

Maybe Fox thinks he can fill 3 open schollies with 2 grad transfers (Buggs and Betley?) and 1 sit-out transfer (Hyder?) [Option A]

Or two sit out transfers (Hyder and Flowers) and a grad transfer like Buggs? [Option B]

If Fox could pull off either of those, it would be quite the save for this year's recruiting class.

[OPTION A] makes us potentially competitive next year and gives us a second PG of the future.

This potential 2020/21 rotation is experienced and somewhat deep (especially if KK and Thorpe make big leaps)

1. Buggs (SR) / Brown (SO)
2. Bradley (JR) / Buggs or Brown
3. Betley (SR) / Kuany (SO)
4. Anticevic (SR) / Thorpe (SO) or Kuany
5. Kelly (JR) / Thiemann (SO)


[OPTION B] would make us just okay next year but would make us a fringe tourney team in 2021/2022 with a potential lineup of:

1. Brown (JR) / Hyder (SO)
2. Flowers (SR) / Bowser (SO) or Celestine (SO)
3. Bradley (SR) / Kuany (JR)
4. Kuany (JR) / Thorpe (JR)
5. Kelly (SR) / Thiemann (JR)

Or, quite possibly, JHD's transfer means nothing and we don't land any of these targets. Hope that's not the case!

---

I like the way you think, butI'm guessing it has most to do with staying academically eligible at Cal.

Betley just committed, so that's one down for that Option A route.

Given the fact that the only PG we've been linked to that would be immediately eligible next season has been Buggs, I wouldn't be surprised to see Fox go hard after him.

Or if it looks like Flowers would be immediately eligible, he would be a higher priority option than Buggs, IMO.

Finally some good news amidst a sea of red and Joe Starkey now doing commercials.

oskidunker said:

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Finally some goid news amidst a sea of red and Joe Starkey now doing commercials.

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yes, and Penn's color is BLUE (with a little red)

Hyder and Betley down. Buggs going another way. Since it's increasingly likely that all transfers will be immediately eligible next season, Hyder will fill the void Buggs was recruited for.

Now if Fox and co. could land Flowers (and everyone's eligible)...we might be looking at a fringe tourney team next season IMO.

ManBearLion123 said:

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Hyder and Betley down. Buggs going another way. Since it's increasingly likely that all transfers will be immediately eligible next season, Hyder will fill the void Buggs was recruited for.

Now if Fox and co. could land Flowers (and everyone's eligible)...we might be looking at a fringe tourney team next season IMO.

---

Any of these point guards, Buggs, Hyder, and Flowers would be jumping up at least one level of competition to the PAC12. I was somewhat intrigued by Buggs, because if he is half as good as former Hawaii point Roderick Bobbitt, who tore up Cal's guards in the 2016 NCAA loss, he'd be someone to take a serious look at. None of these three is TJ McConnell or even Mark Lyons. If it is true that Hyder is more of a shooting guard, we'll have no one to compete with Brown for PG, and he will have to play 30+ minutes.

Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 occasionally.....It will be nice to have a point who can shoot the 3 and slash....Hyder can score from all three levels.....

sluggo said:

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HoopDreams said:

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BerkeleyBAT said:

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Entered the transfer portal, per Verbalcommits.com

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too bad. he could have helped, but I guess he wants a bigger role

---

Cal down to two scholarships players who can dribble the ball up the court, one of whom is not a good candidate because he is supposed to carry the offense. This could be a problem.

Sluggo

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No kidding.

bearmanpg said:

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Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 occasionally.....It will be nice to have a point who can shoot the 3 and slash....Hyder can score from all three levels.....

---

I was going on what I read from TheSouseFamily about Hyder in another thread:

"It's fair to call him a combo guard but he's more shooting guard than point guard. He may spell Brown on occasion but I don't think Fox was looking at Hyder to play much point. Regardless, since we won't know about the transfer waiver situation until the end of May, I suspect Fox is still gonna be looking for someone who play some point immediately."

Have you seen Hyder play? I respect your opinions of players, so if you have seen him, then I'd go along with your assessment unless Souse or someone tells us different. I can't see Fox as having gone for another SG when he took Hyder.. I'm not totally sold on Brown, on the offensive side, and I think some competition for point guard would be good for him, not to mention the fact that before Hyder, we only had Bradley who could also play that position.

From what I gather, Noah Blackwell was the undisputed point guard for Fresno last year and had a solid assist/TO ration. He got hurt and missed a few games and during that time, Hyder and Mustafa Lawrence shared PG studies in his absence. From the film I've watched, Hyder is ok with the ball but he's not a natural PG. I think Fox likes him because of his ability to play both positions but if Hyder is ever our starting PG (outside of injury), I'd be surprised.

JHD reminded me about a lot of high-school gals I dated or had occasion to be around; lots of teasing--very little deliverance.

TheSouseFamily said:

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From what I gather, Noah Blackwell was the undisputed point guard for Fresno last year and had a solid assist/TO ration. He got hurt and missed a few games and during that time, Hyder and Mustafa Lawrence shared PG studies in his absence. From the film I've watched, Hyder is ok with the ball but he's not a natural PG. I think Fox likes him because of his ability to play both positions but if Hyder is ever our starting PG (outside of injury), I'd be surprised.

---

Thanks for the update. It will be interesting to see what kind of a player he is. I hope he is a good one.

I saw Hyder play against St. Marys last season in his 4th game against a D1 opponent.....St. Marys had Jordan Ford so he was not playing against chopped liver....as far as Blackwell being the "undisputed point", I would say you are technically correct but Hyder initiated the offense almost as often as Blackwell did....Hyder, a true freshman, averaged 3.1 assists while Blackwelll, a 5th year senior, averaged 3.3 assists ...What I said was "Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 spot".....If Blackwell hadn't been there, Hyder would have been the point....

bearmanpg said:

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I saw Hyder play against St. Marys last season in his 4th game against a D1 opponent.....St. Marys had Jordan Ford so he was not playing against chopped liver....as far as Blackwell being the "undisputed point", I would say you are technically correct but Hyder initiated the offense almost as often as Blackwell did....Hyder, a true freshman, averaged 3.1 assists while Blackwelll, a 5th year senior, averaged 3.3 assists ...What I said was "Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 spot".....If Blackwell hadn't been there, Hyder would have been the point....

---

You may very well be right. Hyder did turn the ball over a lot more than Blackwell but that could be a just a.freshman getting a baptism by fire. But you're right...Hyder did average 3+ assists which was more than Paris Austin at 2.5 this year and he was obviously our go-to at the point.

PGs can wear different hats and are usually expected to do a variety of things from initiating the offense, to running the break, breaking press and and more. But it's not always necessary for the same guy to do all those things. But one reason I think Brown will be entrenched at the point Is because Fox is a defense-first coach and his defense depends on a quick, athletic ball hawking point to put pressure on the opponent's point. Even if Brown doesn't score, that's a huge part of Fox's philosophy and enough to get Brown the bulk of the PT there, I'd think. But we'll see.

BC Calfan said:

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I think something lost in the discussion about Hyder's value is that he was a straight A student at Fresno last year. I'm happy he's on board.

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Agreed. That's impressive.

TheSouseFamily said:

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bearmanpg said:

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I saw Hyder play against St. Marys last season in his 4th game against a D1 opponent.....St. Marys had Jordan Ford so he was not playing against chopped liver....as far as Blackwell being the "undisputed point", I would say you are technically correct but Hyder initiated the offense almost as often as Blackwell did....Hyder, a true freshman, averaged 3.1 assists while Blackwelll, a 5th year senior, averaged 3.3 assists ...What I said was "Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 spot".....If Blackwell hadn't been there, Hyder would have been the point....

---

You may very well be right. Hyder did turn the ball over a lot more than Blackwell but that could be a just a.freshman getting a baptism by fire. But you're right...Hyder did average 3+ assists which was more than Paris Austin at 2.5 this year and he was obviously our go-to at the point.

PGs can wear different hats and are usually expected to do a variety of things from initiating the offense, to running the break, breaking press and and more. But it's not always necessary for the same guy to do all those things. But one reason I think Brown will be entrenched at the point Is because Fox is a defense-first coach and his defense depends on a quick, athletic ball hawking point to put pressure on the opponent's point. Even if Brown doesn't score, that's a huge part of Fox's philosophy and enough to get Brown the bulk of the PT there, I'd think. But we'll see.

---

I honestly didn't notice Hyder's defense but he was playing against Jordan Ford who made a lot more high profile players look bad during his career......I could be leaning toward Hyder because I'm sick and tired of watching point guards who CAN'T score....We certainly will see.....

bearmanpg said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

---

bearmanpg said:

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I saw Hyder play against St. Marys last season in his 4th game against a D1 opponent.....St. Marys had Jordan Ford so he was not playing against chopped liver....as far as Blackwell being the "undisputed point", I would say you are technically correct but Hyder initiated the offense almost as often as Blackwell did....Hyder, a true freshman, averaged 3.1 assists while Blackwelll, a 5th year senior, averaged 3.3 assists ...What I said was "Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 spot".....If Blackwell hadn't been there, Hyder would have been the point....

---

You may very well be right. Hyder did turn the ball over a lot more than Blackwell but that could be a just a.freshman getting a baptism by fire. But you're right...Hyder did average 3+ assists which was more than Paris Austin at 2.5 this year and he was obviously our go-to at the point.

PGs can wear different hats and are usually expected to do a variety of things from initiating the offense, to running the break, breaking press and and more. But it's not always necessary for the same guy to do all those things. But one reason I think Brown will be entrenched at the point Is because Fox is a defense-first coach and his defense depends on a quick, athletic ball hawking point to put pressure on the opponent's point. Even if Brown doesn't score, that's a huge part of Fox's philosophy and enough to get Brown the bulk of the PT there, I'd think. But we'll see.

---

I honestly didn't notice Hyder's defense but he was playing against Jordan Ford who made a lot more high profile players look bad during his career......I could be leaning toward Hyder because I'm sick and tired of watching point guards who CAN'T score....We certainly will see.....

---

Me too. It would be nice to have a point guard who can score. Charlie Moore had some good scoring games, but I think we have to go back to Justin Cobbs to find one who was a dependable scorer. In the last 20 years, Randle stands out as the best scorer, followed by Cobbs, Ubaka, Moore, and Jorge as good or decent scorers. Legans shot good percentages, but didn't take enough shots to be called a scorer.

The 1990s was a good decade for scoring point guards, with Carlisle, Gardner, Kidd, and Keith Smith. The only good scoring point guard I can think of in the 1980s, was Kevin Johnson. In the 1970s, Cal had several point guards who were good scorers, Phil Chenier, Charlie Johnson, Eric Long, Rickie Hawthorne, and Gene Ransom.

What troubles me more, is that in the last 20 years, I haven't seen great passing point guards at Cal, who can set up teammates and distribute the ball to them. Using 5 assists per game as a benchmark, we only had two PGs in the last 20 years, Cobbs and Randle, who achieved that in a season. In the 1990s, Cal had more, led by Kidd who had 7.7 in 1993 and 9.1 in 1994, followed by Gardner with 6.5 in 1995, and Prentice McGruder with 6.4 in 1997. Keith Smith had 6.4 in 1990. In 1986, Kevin Johnson had 6 assists per game. In the 1970s, Gene Ransom and Eric Long were the best, both averaging 5.1 assists per game.

What role might Hyder play in the last few minutes of a game? I'm thinking at the end of a game the coach has a bit more control to sub in on offense and defense. He might want Hyder in the game for his free throw shooting and then Brown for his defense. At 40% FT% Joel Brown isn't somebody you want on the floor when you need to hit your free throws. I'm sure he will improve, but we are replacing +85% free throw shooters on our team.

SFCityBear said:

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bearmanpg said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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bearmanpg said:

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I saw Hyder play against St. Marys last season in his 4th game against a D1 opponent.....St. Marys had Jordan Ford so he was not playing against chopped liver....as far as Blackwell being the "undisputed point", I would say you are technically correct but Hyder initiated the offense almost as often as Blackwell did....Hyder, a true freshman, averaged 3.1 assists while Blackwelll, a 5th year senior, averaged 3.3 assists ...What I said was "Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 spot".....If Blackwell hadn't been there, Hyder would have been the point....

---

You may very well be right. Hyder did turn the ball over a lot more than Blackwell but that could be a just a.freshman getting a baptism by fire. But you're right...Hyder did average 3+ assists which was more than Paris Austin at 2.5 this year and he was obviously our go-to at the point.

PGs can wear different hats and are usually expected to do a variety of things from initiating the offense, to running the break, breaking press and and more. But it's not always necessary for the same guy to do all those things. But one reason I think Brown will be entrenched at the point Is because Fox is a defense-first coach and his defense depends on a quick, athletic ball hawking point to put pressure on the opponent's point. Even if Brown doesn't score, that's a huge part of Fox's philosophy and enough to get Brown the bulk of the PT there, I'd think. But we'll see.

---

I honestly didn't notice Hyder's defense but he was playing against Jordan Ford who made a lot more high profile players look bad during his career......I could be leaning toward Hyder because I'm sick and tired of watching point guards who CAN'T score....We certainly will see.....

---

Me too. It would be nice to have a point guard who can score. Charlie Moore had some good scoring games, but I think we have to go back to Justin Cobbs to find one who was a dependable scorer. In the last 20 years, Randle stands out as the best scorer, followed by Cobbs, Ubaka, Moore, and Jorge as good or decent scorers. Legans shot good percentages, but didn't take enough shots to be called a scorer.

The 1990s was a good decade for scoring point guards, with Carlisle, Gardner, Kidd, and Keith Smith. The only good scoring point guard I can think of in the 1980s, was Kevin Johnson. In the 1970s, Cal had several point guards who were good scorers, Phil Chenier, Charlie Johnson, Eric Long, Rickie Hawthorne, and Gene Ransom.

What troubles me more, is that in the last 20 years, I haven't seen great passing point guards at Cal, who can set up teammates and distribute the ball to them. Using 5 assists per game as a benchmark, we only had two PGs in the last 20 years, Cobbs and Randle, who achieved that in a season. In the 1990s, Cal had more, led by Kidd who had 7.7 in 1993 and 9.1 in 1994, followed by Gardner with 6.5 in 1995, and Prentice McGruder with 6.4 in 1997. Keith Smith had 6.4 in 1990. In 1986, Kevin Johnson had 6 assists per game. In the 1970s, Gene Ransom and Eric Long were the best, both averaging 5.1 assists per game.

---

This is OT but kinda funny....I played HS ball with Eric Long and have remained friends...he told me a story about when he was a senior captain playing for Dick Edwards....as most players have experienced, some days the hoop is as big as the ocean and you can't miss....Eric was having one of those games when after starting the game 7 for 7 or 8 for 8 from the field in the first 10 minutes, Edwards suddenly pulled him out of the game....Eric didn't get back in the game until the second half, and was quite miffed about being pulled when he was 8 for 8......he didn't say anything to Edwards at the time but the next week when Edwards would always have a meeting with the captain, he asks Eric what he thought about the previous games...well Eric was still a bit warm by the substitution pattern and he unloaded on Edwards about the game in question...Edwards's reply was, since he hadn't missed a shot yet, he better get him out before he cooled off.....Eric was not in agreement with that answer and said "you could have at least wait until I missed a shot!" .....Just one more reason why Edwards didn't last at Cal....

bearmanpg said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearmanpg said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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bearmanpg said:

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I saw Hyder play against St. Marys last season in his 4th game against a D1 opponent.....St. Marys had Jordan Ford so he was not playing against chopped liver....as far as Blackwell being the "undisputed point", I would say you are technically correct but Hyder initiated the offense almost as often as Blackwell did....Hyder, a true freshman, averaged 3.1 assists while Blackwelll, a 5th year senior, averaged 3.3 assists ...What I said was "Hyder is more of a point who can slide over to the 2 spot".....If Blackwell hadn't been there, Hyder would have been the point....

---

You may very well be right. Hyder did turn the ball over a lot more than Blackwell but that could be a just a.freshman getting a baptism by fire. But you're right...Hyder did average 3+ assists which was more than Paris Austin at 2.5 this year and he was obviously our go-to at the point.

PGs can wear different hats and are usually expected to do a variety of things from initiating the offense, to running the break, breaking press and and more. But it's not always necessary for the same guy to do all those things. But one reason I think Brown will be entrenched at the point Is because Fox is a defense-first coach and his defense depends on a quick, athletic ball hawking point to put pressure on the opponent's point. Even if Brown doesn't score, that's a huge part of Fox's philosophy and enough to get Brown the bulk of the PT there, I'd think. But we'll see.

---

I honestly didn't notice Hyder's defense but he was playing against Jordan Ford who made a lot more high profile players look bad during his career......I could be leaning toward Hyder because I'm sick and tired of watching point guards who CAN'T score....We certainly will see.....

---

Me too. It would be nice to have a point guard who can score. Charlie Moore had some good scoring games, but I think we have to go back to Justin Cobbs to find one who was a dependable scorer. In the last 20 years, Randle stands out as the best scorer, followed by Cobbs, Ubaka, Moore, and Jorge as good or decent scorers. Legans shot good percentages, but didn't take enough shots to be called a scorer.

The 1990s was a good decade for scoring point guards, with Carlisle, Gardner, Kidd, and Keith Smith. The only good scoring point guard I can think of in the 1980s, was Kevin Johnson. In the 1970s, Cal had several point guards who were good scorers, Phil Chenier, Charlie Johnson, Eric Long, Rickie Hawthorne, and Gene Ransom.

What troubles me more, is that in the last 20 years, I haven't seen great passing point guards at Cal, who can set up teammates and distribute the ball to them. Using 5 assists per game as a benchmark, we only had two PGs in the last 20 years, Cobbs and Randle, who achieved that in a season. In the 1990s, Cal had more, led by Kidd who had 7.7 in 1993 and 9.1 in 1994, followed by Gardner with 6.5 in 1995, and Prentice McGruder with 6.4 in 1997. Keith Smith had 6.4 in 1990. In 1986, Kevin Johnson had 6 assists per game. In the 1970s, Gene Ransom and Eric Long were the best, both averaging 5.1 assists per game.

---

This is OT but kinda funny....I played HS ball with Eric Long and have remained friends...he told me a story about when he was a senior captain playing for Dick Edwards....as most players have experienced, some days the hoop is as big as the ocean and you can't miss....Eric was having one of those games when after starting the game 7 for 7 or 8 for 8 from the field in the first 10 minutes, Edwards suddenly pulled him out of the game....Eric didn't get back in the game until the second half, and was quite miffed about being pulled when he was 8 for 8......he didn't say anything to Edwards at the time but the next week when Edwards would always have a meeting with the captain, he asks Eric what he thought about the previous games...well Eric was still a bit warm by the substitution pattern and he unloaded on Edwards about the game in question...Edwards's reply was, since he hadn't missed a shot yet, he better get him out before he cooled off.....Eric was not in agreement with that answer and said "you could have at least wait until I missed a shot!" .....Just one more reason why Edwards didn't last at Cal....

---

That was a good story. Most coaches give you the hook when you miss a shot, or a few shots, but Edwards had a different idea, I guess, which is seldom used. I remember you had said before that you had played high school ball with Eric, in Stockton, as I recall. He was a very good player, and played with some good players at Cal. I expected more from Edwards. He was not such a good coach.

Nice Sport coats

oskidunker said:

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Nice Spirt coats

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They looked more like the top half of a zoot suit.

SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Nice Spirt coats

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They looked more like the top half of a zoot suit.

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Agree. I was kidding.

SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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Nice Spirt coats

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They looked more like the top half of a zoot suit.

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How many on this site do you suppose know what a zoot suit was? ("zoot suit with a drape shape and a reet pleat")

UrsaMajor said:

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> How many on this site do you suppose know what a zoot suit was? ("zoot suit with a drape shape and a reet pleat")

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clueless, HeyBoomer called life-line image search. random what-for (of several) came back like this..



&f=1&nofb=1

thank you sir may i have another.. SLAP (fail, might try click to expand)
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hMlS5gOw_T1UOxFg0I3m9gHaLK%26pid%3DApi&f=1