01Bear said:
SFCityBear said:
01Bear said:
SFCityBear said:
And do us a favor: Leave racisim and agism at the door when you post
SFCityBear, brother I would encourage you to take the same advice. It's pretty damn racist and agist to expect everyone to cater to and adopt old white guy preferences as the norm. While I initially made my comment half-jokingly (though I admit, I should've added a smiley face emoticon), it appears your comment is entirely serious.
How many times have you come on this board to lament how basketball isn't played the way you prefer, any more? How many times have you lambasted younger Bears for not knowing the generations of Bears who played before they or even their parents were born? While sharing information about the past is welcome (and I truly do enjoy learning from you about Cal's basketball legacy, by the way), your criticism of young Bears for not knowing what you know is very much a reflection of the agism you claim to deplore.
Worse, your (and in this case, helltopay's) insistence that your sartorial choices are really what's acceptable has a ridiculously racist premise, namely that the standard body type to be used to determine what is appropriate is that of the skinny white athlete. I was never a skinny white athlete. Why should my uniform preferences be dictated by someone whose body dimensions drastically differed from mine?
Thanks to puberty, I gained about 25lbs, all of which settled below the belt, over the course of one summer. I was a short power forward/center on my high school frosh basketball team, but I could effectively box out taller opponents because of my stronger and thicker base. My thighs resembled those of a juiced Lance Armstrong. My glutes were proportional to my treetrunk-like thighs. My calves were the size of some grapefruits. I was entirely uncomfortable in those hot pants that passed for basketball shorts. Yet, I was forced to wear them because some old white guy determined that high school basketball players were all skinny, based on a history of predominantly white basketball players at my school. Never mind that for those of us (generally non-White) players with more mass in our hips, butts, and thighs, those "normal" shorts rode up and were little better than speedos.
Guess what, your (and helltopay's) pronouncements are pretty much indistinguishable from the decision (by whomever it was in my predominantly white school district who decided) to buy shorts that suited skinny white guys well but not so much the rest of us. They're rooted in the racism that uses the white body as the standard by which all things are measured. It may not be malicious or even intentional, but it marginalizes, minimizes, others, and even dehumanizes non-white bodies, nonetheless.
That said, I appreciate your link to an article showing that young athletes are starting to wear shorter shorts again. That's fine for them. I encourage them to find and wear shorts in which they're comfortable. Their choices, however, shouldn't be limited only to what some old dude (either you, me, helltopay, or anyone else) whose body type is/was entirely different from theirs determines is appropriate.
Well, I took your original post as serious and not jokingly or half-jokingly in any way. By the literal meaning of the words you used, it was no more than a racist and agist attack against one age group of one race. An emoticon might have helped me somehow understand how it was meant, but I can be pretty dense sometimes, especially when I get my hackles up, so I doubt it would have helped. My post was deadly serious, because except for the "LOL", I felt your post was intended to be taken seriously. As I read it, it sounded very serious, indeed, like you had some kind of axe to grind with old white men.
It is so easy to misunderstand something typed and sent electronically, and sometimes take offence at something not meant to offend. I suspect that most posts, messages, or e-mails intended to insult are ones that the poster would never say in person face-to-face. Now that you have told me of your well-developed muscular structure (and I am pretty sure you are much younger than me, and bigger than me), I will certainly have to tread lightly, and be careful not to insult you, for fear we might meet one day, and you would knock my block off.
Aside from that, it is apparent you either have not read, or have read a lot into my posts which were not there. My posts are interminably long much of the time, and I can understand in this fast-moving age, why someone might not read such posts carefully. First, I admit to lamenting that basketball is not played the way it was in the 1950s and 1960s, but what I continually try to point out is that some of the fundamentals of that era haven't changed and players of today would be better players if they had mastered some of those fundamentals. The pro players who attended Pete Newell's Big Man Camps for fifty years after he retired from coaching are a testament to this. They respected what he could teach them about how to play the game better. My biggest problem is with the rule changes that favor the offense, and make it near impossible for one player to stop another player from scoring. And it isn't old white guys who lament this. Old black guys like Oscar Roberston, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and Julius Erving have lamented it also. Publicly. Allowing today's players to do many things that the older player were not allowed to do, and then to try and say today's players are better, is just wrong.
I have learned much about modern basketball from posters on this board. I try hard not to insult. I don't believe I have ever "lambasted younger Bears for not knowing players who played before" I know I have not "criticized young Bears for not knowing what I know" because I try very hard not to criticize persons, only their ideas, and usually only in a debate. Since I got to the Bear Insider, I have been ridiculed for even mentioning how basketball was played from say 1958 to first the three point shot attempt, and some of those playing methods ought to still be relevant. So I vehemently disagree with you that "I criticize young Bears for not knowing what I know". I try to tell interesting stories from the past, maybe to inform folks of what they may not know, and often get ridiculed for doing so, but I never intend to criticize a person, only to defend my position against insult and attack, by letting them know there are other ways to play this game.
How would you know what uniforms I prefer? I never voiced an opinion. I could care less. The long loose uniforms appear a little comical to me, and I said so. It doesn't mean I wouldn't wear one. I have never played in them, so I don't know if they would interfere with my running or dribbling. In fact, I had a sever case of eczema on my legs, and wore sweat pants at practice, so no one would see the sores on my legs. So I guess the long bloomers of the last 30 years or so would have been perfect for me, like they were for you, for a different reason. I really have no opinion of what is a good uniform. I remember my mother telling me she was upset when she went to some of my father's games. His team was the Demons, and sometimes in their games, one team would be wearing shirts and the other team was naked from the waist up, and mom did not like that one bit, shirts and skins. Fortunately she never saw any of my high school practices, where we always split into teams of shirts and skins.
Finally, I'm not understanding this basketball body type you talk about, "skinny white men". Compared to whom exactly? I'm sure there is an '-ism" for bias against body size or weight, but I haven't learned that one yet. I understand that some white men are skinny. I was white and skinny when I tried out for the Cal frosh, 5-10, 135 lbs. I was cut, told I was too skinny, and told I had to get up to 180 to make the Cal team. A year later, a teammate of mine from high school days, Denny Lewis, white and 5-11, 185 lbs, and he made the team. In fact all the guards on Cal teams of those days were short, and weighed just under 200 lbs. Bill McClintock in Cal's glory days was a forward who was 6-4 and 215 lbs. Harper Kamp is 6-8, 245. David Kravish, who always looked skinny, was 6-10 and 245. Lars is 7-0 and 250 lbs. Richard Solomon was 6-10, 235, and Robert Thurman was 6-10, 265. Who, exactly, are these skinny white men that you played against or that you see playing basket ball. Best rebounders in Cal history were Bob Presley and Ansley Truitt, both black men. Truitt weighed 215, and Presley even less. Skinny black men. Ryan Anderson, 240. People come in all sizes and weights. It is rare that skinny players make it into Cal rotations. Some have, but most of them, black or white are not skinny. You have to have plenty of weight to keep from getting pushed around. It is a physical game. Maybe you played on teams with some undersized undernourished white men, I don't know. The admin guys who make uniform decisions may have been skinny white men, for sure.
SFCityBear, I may have confused you with some other old Bears, then. Please forgive me if I unfairly accused you of lambasting younger Bears over their lack of knowledge. In my defense, all you old white guys look alike. 
(In case it's not coming across over the text, I'm entirely kidding with that last line. For starters, I've never seen pictures of any of you.)
As for the Cal players, the last Bear I can remember who wasn't built like a bean pole was likely Markhuri Sanders-Frison. While he was likely extremely cut/ripped/shredded, even Leon Powe looked a bit skinny in college. The same applies to Jaylen Brown, who was undoubtedly strong (especially for a freshman basketball player). Even Rob Thurman (he of the "Dunk! Dunk! Dunk" game in the NCAS Tournament) wasn't exactly really thicker than average (for his height, anyway). It's unsurprising then, that these young men would prefer tight short shorts over longer and baggier ones.
I, on the other hand, was built like a fire hydrant. I was short, stout, and I had a bolt on the top of my head. Okay, maybe not quite. It was more of a rivet. Seriously, though, by the time I started high school, I was built as solid as a tank from the hips down. This meant that unlike you, I had no difficulty putting on weight.
Reaching 150lbs was only difficult for me in college because I was approaching it from the other direction. Over a break during my first year at Cal, a high school friend of mine saw me with my shirt off and thought I was sick/dying because he could see my ribs. I weighed about 150-155lbs (after losing about 25-30lbs thanks in part to the horrible dorm food and regular cardio-intensive workouts). I had massive (albeit short) legs and an underdeveloped upper body. This was similar to how I was built in my freshman year of high school, when I wore those darn short shorts.
Back then, I was new to the post game. Growing up, I played point guard with my friends. Yet, on my high school frosh team I was moved to 4/5. I learned to bang in the post and even developed some low post footwork (I loved the Mikan drill) and a hook shot. If anything, I wish I got to learn under Pete Newell, back then. I have no illusions that I could've been a college big man (for starters, I was about a foot too short!), but I would've loved to have learn enough so that I could help teach and develop big men.
Like you, I believe knowing how to play in the post is a lost art, thanks in great part to the rule changes over the last decades. Honestly, I would love to see the rules changed to bring back the dominant low post juggernauts. Along those lines I also would love to see rule changes favoring defenders and defense. Ultimately, I guess I'm just an old Asian guy. 
01Bear,
This is a great read. Five stars. Now I understand what you were saying, and I split my sides with laughter as well. Sorry for going off on your post.
I had wrongly assumed that the long pants were just a fashion thing, like Stu and others had said. I never did think it was racial in any way, because black players in short pants had more or less dominated the NBA since the 1970s, and achieved great success, maybe in spite of the confining short pants of the standard uniforms. I did some reading up on it, and it seems some, probably many players did prefer the longer pants as it gave them more freedom of movement. Your post was the first I ever heard of this, and my eyes are now opened. For the rest of the players, the skinny ones, I think it may be more of a style thing, and conforming to fashion. Most of us like to look cool. Back when I went to Cal, no guy wanting to look cool would ever carry a briefcase or have a slide rule clipped to his belt. Carrying one book was the max allowed. Today, first graders' backs are bowed with heavy backpacks full of who knows what? A kid like me, carrying one book would be ridiculed. I remember one night I was sitting in the fraternity dining room booking for finals. I was alone, and had several books and notes with me. In the door comes Andy Segale, who I think was captain of the Cal football team. His major was one of the hardest at Cal, engineering physics. He was carrying 2 books, one for each of 2 finals the next day. He spent half an hour thumbing through the first book, and half an hour with the 2nd book, and then got up to leave. I asked him where he was going. "La Vals," he said. "Can't miss Happy Hour." I thought he was the coolest guy I ever saw. Later, I asked him how he did in the exams. He got C in both courses. Not as cool as I thought. Next semester, he switched to Business Administration. Anyway, white kids have fully adapted to the long pants over the years, and all players who are driven by looking cool will probably change to shorter pants if the schools and NBA start shortening the pants.
I can remember a few guys maybe built like you. Ray Murray, maybe Carl Boyd. How about Gene Ransom? Nobody could push that guy around.
I did have trouble putting on weight. I used to eat 5,000-6,000 calories a day and gain nothing. When the Cal frosh coaches told me to gain 40 pounds to make the varsity, they said to eat bananas and milkshakes and work out lifting weights. So I ate about a dozen bananas and drank 3 milkshakes every day, and went to the gym every day where they did their best to bulk me up. 6 months later, I had gained only 12 pounds, but it was all muscle. I hadn't played basketball for months. At the first varsity tryout, I took a jumper from the top of the key, and it sailed over the backboard into the seats, I was so musclebound. I went from being the best shot on the floor, to the worst, and I had to learn to shoot all over again. I slinked off the floor into oblivion.
Our careers were reversed. You started playing point guard, and grew into a bigger player and moved to the post. I was taller than most kids and started out playing center. I played center my first two years in high school. One of my Filipino teammates recruited me to play for his CYO team, because they needed rebounds. They were 4 Filipinos and me, and they never passed me the ball. That was how I learned to dribble, because the only way I could get a shot was to get a rebound and dribble the length of the floor and shoot it. We almost won the city championship, 5 ball hogs we were.
Another teammate on my high school team said that he and I were both only 5-10, and our parents were all short, 5-7 or less, so he said we would probably stop growing at 6-6, so we had better practice a forward's moves for the future. Neither of us grew another inch. So when I got to Cal and the tryouts, I had to play guard, which I had never played in my life. I loved it. I had the ball and I could shoot, start a play, or find an open teammate for a shot. I was asthmatic, and playing guard, I didn't have to run the length of the floor as much as I did in high school, every time one of my teammates lost the ball, or the ball changed hands, so I didn't get as tired. Now I am even shorter. A couple years ago, I went into a doctor's office, and the nurse asked me, "How tall are you?" I told her, "5-10". She said, "No, you're not. You are 5-9" We argued, she measured, and she was right. The doctor asked me if I was a golfer. I said I was, and he said. "I knew it. You have arthritis in all the right places." The arthritis is a little painful sometimes, but getting shorter really hurts. Don't get old, 01Bear.
I loved playing in the post in grade school, and early high school. The hook shot was a favorite of mine, especially with a fade away. Unstoppable. I never was very good with my left hand, though. But playing with your back to the basket is so much fun. Like Shareef. I really miss the great hook shots. Bob McKeen was the best Cal ever had at that. Washington had Doug Smart and Bruno Boin, two tall guys who could knock down 20 points each with 20 foot hook shots from the corners. Joe Roberts killed Cal in the NCAA final with with 20-25 foot hook shots. Jerry Lucas use to catch the ball under the edge of the backboard, and dribble away from the basket and take a fadeaway hook at the free throw line. Deadly.
