If the magic wand is not available -- and that's pretty much what it would take to turn her into a top-shelf Pac-12 post this season -- Shocky1 is right: The Pac-12 is brutally competitive, and though Cal has done well so far, conference play is totally different.

One big change: In preseason, teams work on their own game; in conference play, they attack opponents' weaknesses, which they've scouted. Cal's small backcourt and lack of depth will make it hard for the Bears to compete night-in and night-out with more talented teams. I expect them to battle, be competitive and pull off an upset or two, but a .500 record in the Pac-12 would be a spectacular achievement.

I strongly disagree with you both. And trust me, I lean pessimistic. Guess that's why we play the game and don't let a bunch of keyboard warriors dictate the outcome =)

Last year UCLA was 8 and 8. Went to Ncaa tourney. Are we as good as last year's UCLA team. I don't think so but the key will be how many close games we can win. Last year we didn't do well.

This year, who knows? We really haven't played any close games except for St. Mary's.

CalFanatic said:

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polarbear said:

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I see with our two wins this last weekend and a loss by the Huskies, according to Massey's we are no longer in the Pac-12 ratings basement. They have us as #64 in the nation . Next to pass OSU, then ___, then___, and finally at the top of the ladder Furd! Note that our #64 would come very close to 4th place in the conference if it was MBB. They are sadly at a lowly #289 (out of 363 teams), one of the worst teams in the country.

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Massey has at 11-18? I would be shocked... I mean truly, truly shocked if we finished 11-18.

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I don't see where Massey's lists teams projected ending W/L records. But they do have us favored to win our five remaining non-conference games and slight favorites over ASU. Unfortunately we don't play UW at home this year. But it looks like in addition to ASU, the two games vs Colorado, one vs OSU, at UW, and vs. USC would be winnable if we played to our potential and/or the opponent played poorly.

Colorado is another team with which we should be competitive. They have been solid against weaker teams, but did poorly against Tennessee, with their starting five going 5-28 from the field. Sadler is back in the starting lineup after injury, but had 6 TO's against the Vols. The Colorado coach has historically had our number, so Charmin will need to come up with a good game plan.

Thanks for reminding me to put Massey's back on my toolbar.

stu said:

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Shocky1 said:

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... the key to wbb's final four team was coach gottlieb's foresight/patience in developing the +1 athletic gennifer brandon who could compete with the nation's top post players ...

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I thought Gennifer really came out as a freshie in the 2010 NIT game against UC Davis. DeNesha and Talia were standing around in the paint letting the Davis posts shoot uncontested midrange jumpers and we were losing. Coach Joanne Boyle yanked DeNesha and Talia and brought in Gennifer and Lauren. Those two shut down the Davis posts and Gennifer went crazy with 19 points and 21 rebounds to get us to overtime and the win. Watching that made me the second craziest person in the Haas.

IMHO Gennifer played with such innate talent, energy, and joy that coaching didn't seem to make much difference. All the coach had to do was put her on the court and marvel at the results. Like Brittany Boyd and Jason Kidd, Gennifer is one of my all-time Cal favorites.

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Thanks, that's my favorite pic of Gennifer.

Loved watching Gennifer play. It was so exciting!!!! I miss her and Jaelyn Brown. The Bears continue to be undersized, and do not have enough height to be competitive in the Pac-12. I have always liked Iowa State WBB, and root for them in the tournament. They are uniformly tall, athletic, and really good shooters. I love the Cal WBB program, and want the season to be a positive experience for the terrific student athletes on the team. It seems to me there are more and more great WBB college players. There are so many terrific NCAA Dividion 1 teams. Go BEARS!

WBB has come a long way since my school days. That's been great to witness.

stu said:

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Thanks, that's my favorite pic of Gennifer.

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thx hoops, that's my favorite foto of cal's women's basketball

michelle with a remarkable 7 boards & 6 points on 2-3 field goals with only 1 turnover but once again not given meaningful minutes with only 14 tonite, she is not being developed like gennifer brandon was back in the day

as the team's only +1 interior athlete, this team is gonna be exposed against nationally ranked opponents in pac 12 play in the post on defense

on the other end of the playing time spectrum, the heavy playing rotation wears out the starting 3 guards who all played 30+ minutes against a mediocre mid major opponent & fatigue was a factor in their 12 of the team's 20 turnovers

Karisma got a solid 25 minutes off the bench. Mia didn't have a great game and Amaya is still out with an ankle injury. I think Amaya would have helped in a game like this had she been available.

Cal Basketball legends 💪 @Ashleybear44 and Devanei Hampton pic.twitter.com/sawnf0niUh

— Cal Basketball (@CalWBBall) December 10, 2022

more bizarre playing rotations from charmin smith as she plays michelle only 18 minutes despite her scoring 15 points with 11 boards...the 5 turnovers are a function of her lacking the playing time to develop the discipline to avoid the ticky tack fouls that plague her game, sitting on the bench isn't gonna get it done

she made some plays tonite that very few women in the college game can make with her +1 athleticism

there's only 1 more preseason game for michelle to get 25+ minutes

Quote:

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more bizarre playing rotations from charmin smith as she plays michelle only 18 minutes despite her scoring 15 points with 11 boards...the 5 turnovers are a function of her lacking the playing time to develop the discipline to avoid the ticky tack fouls that plague her game, sitting on the bench isn't gonna get it done

she made some plays tonite that very few women in the college game can make with her +1 athleticism

there's only 1 more preseason game for michelle to get 25+ minutes

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Yes, Michelle displayed her ability to do things nobody else on this team can do. I thought the weak officiating in the 2nd half created some of the "turnovers" but there was one egregious double dribble. I'd like to see those things worked out in practice.

stu, those things need to get worked out in games, practice speed is not the same as game speed

coach charmin at this point is a better person than a head basketball coach, her failure to develop michelle via 25+ mpg is gonna continue to keep her team in 12th place in the pac 12 once the bears play +1 bigs that only michelle can match up with defensively/rebounding

smith's 3 year pac 12 record is 3-15, 1-12 & last season's 2-10

The practices can get pretty intense and they do have male practice players. I asked one who beats him up the most and the answer was, without hesitation, Michelle.

Yes, BearBloke and I did go see Buster Keaton at the Pacific Film Archive this evening (perhaps the only time in living memory that we've missed a Cal WBB game at Haas). Having admitted our sin, is there a way of rewatching the game on-line?

You two weren't the only ones who missed the game. Official attendance was just 655.

We seem to prefer failure to success in some sports.

Shocky, I would say practice is more intense. Thiose male players are superior to the teams they have been playing.

wvit, nothing can replicate gameday experiences, practicing against dudes is not the same thing as playing in a wbb game

it's kinda like a golfer hitting balls on the practice range, it just don't matter...you miss a shot, no big deal

reality is that charmin has done a very poor job of developing michelle's off the charts +1 athleticism in her 3rd year in berkeley & this is one of the reasons that smith's team has been dwelling in last place in the pac 12 multiple years in a row

michelle is fun, articulate & got a big personality, jayda gotta alpha personality

look, coach charmin is a good person (she genuinely cares about her student athletes) & her players like her, she just needs to play michelle 25+ mpg & let her play thru her mistakes in order to develop

Michelle's "mistakes" are getting into unnecessary foul trouble. She is her own worst enemy. You can't add to your minutes by sitting on the bench. If she would relax and let the game come to her (like last night), then she'll be fine.

Michelle got only 2 fouls (1 on offense) in 18 minutes. I think a bigger problem was her 5 turnovers. I don't remember the details of all of them but I'd like to see her dribble less. Same with Mia. I think Leilani provides a great example, she dribbles with a purpose and is inclined to pass.

Bringing the ball down and dribbling. Pretty much the two worst things you can do as a big person. Guaranteed turnovers and complete loss of height advantage. Was always impressed that Oregon State coached that out of their big people over the years. Made some average players much better.

Sela had that down (pun intended) the day she arrived at Cal.

stu said:

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Sela had that down (pun intended) the day she arrived at Cal.

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I think that her parents played basketball and taught her how important that would be, especially in making use of her height. Even our best posts over the years have had that weakness compared to Sela. She also keeps her hands up on defense. Too bad she has been injured.

some players who don't have enough strength bring the ball down so they can jump higher, but I don't think that's Michelle's issue. Just needs more PT

article about Michelle's double-double game vs ucsd

https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/cal-women-beat-ucsd

congrats to michelle on only 1 turnover along with 8 points on a once again highly efficient 4 of 6 field goals along with an assist & 3 boards but most importantly a defensive post presence in 19 minutes

Michelle💪
📺:https://t.co/3I1zSJ0xwX pic.twitter.com/X0OcQCiuNq

— Cal Basketball (@CalWBBall) January 2, 2023

for the 1st time in her career michelle started a half (the 2nd half) & played more than 25 minutes, how did that work out?

onyiah played 27 minutes with zero fatigue & zero turnovers in scoring a team high 16 points on a once again highly efficient 5 of 10 field goals along with 11 boards, 2 blocks & physical interior defense

coach charmin is a better person than a head coach (at $550,000 she is overpaid) which is reflected in her career pac 12 record of 5-29, she will hopefully start her +1 athletic once in a decade talent every game for the rest of her time in berkeley with at least 25 & ideally 30+ minutes per game

gotta love the team bench vibe, they are so supportive of one another which is a reflection of the coaching staff

this is the program's 1st real win of the season, they've beaten all the mid major cupcakes & lost to all the above average teams...michelle's minutes & development should've started in game 1 of this season but that's just yesterday leaking thru the roof now

for a team that struggles to score points every year with charmin, it's absolutely coaching malpractice that gutty karisma ortiz starts & gets 20 minutes without scoring a point, she should be a role player with 5-7 minutes a game tops...claudia langarita's 15 points on 7 of 8 field goals in only 17 minutes reflects the fact she also needs 25+ minutes per game along with michelle

Shocky1 said:

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for the 1st time in her career michelle started a half (the 2nd half) & played more than 25 minutes, how did that work out?

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Michelle started more than a few games two years ago when we were short handed. But I get your point, it's long past the time to bring her along slowly.

Shocky1 said:

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...claudia langarita's 15 points on 7 of 8 field goals in only 17 minutes reflects the fact she also needs 25+ minutes per game along with michelle

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I'd like to see more of Claudia and I'd like to see her work on rebounding.

How about a shout-out to Leilani, the best point guard from your state of Arizona!

Michele's biggest improvement tonight is she didn't get in foul trouble. Only had three. Ergo she played more.

wvitbear said:

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Michele's biggest improvement tonight is she didn't get in foul trouble. Only had three. Ergo she played more.

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Michele has been more focused the last two games. She had a lapse of concentraton vs Arizona in one situation. She is earning her minutes played. So happy and thankful for her Double-Double today.......The bench and fans were rooting for her!!!!

wvitbear said:

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Michele's biggest improvement tonight is she didn't get in foul trouble. Only had three. Ergo she played more.

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Funny how that works out right?! Pretty much the games she has had limited minutes has been tied to this?