Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Caitlin Clark
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Last: 29 days ago by CalWSportsFan
oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Chelsea Gray continues to be injured, but she may be starting to attend shoot-around. Arike and DeWanna Bonner would be great on the Olympic team , so would Becky Hammond as the coach. The future looks bright for TEAM USA!!!
GGV
BearBint said:
Another point of view: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/caitlin-clarks-new-reality
Great Article Bear Bint! Thank-you for posting it.....
GGV
Good article but the point that stood out to me ….
"Then Clark arrived, last month, bringing her logo threes, pinpoint assists, and her swaggeralong with millions of eyeballs, many of them belonging to the kind of casual fans who don't watch a lot of sports save for the Super Bowl. Nearly two and a half million people watched Clark get drafted, shattering the league's previous draft-night record of six hundred thousandwhich was set the year that Taurasi was picked first."
"Then Clark arrived, last month, bringing her logo threes, pinpoint assists, and her swaggeralong with millions of eyeballs, many of them belonging to the kind of casual fans who don't watch a lot of sports save for the Super Bowl. Nearly two and a half million people watched Clark get drafted, shattering the league's previous draft-night record of six hundred thousandwhich was set the year that Taurasi was picked first."
Ashfield63 said:BearBint said:
Another point of view: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/caitlin-clarks-new-reality
Great Article Bear Bint! Thank-you for posting it.....
Quite true--and Taurasi was drafted 20 years ago; the subsequent rise and omnipresence of social media have something to do with Clark's relatively sudden fame.HoopDreams said:
Good article but the point that stood out to me ….
"Nearly two and a half million people watched Clark get drafted, shattering the league's previous draft-night record of six hundred thousandwhich was set the year that Taurasi was picked first."Ashfield63 said:BearBint said:
Another point of view: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/caitlin-clarks-new-reality
Great Article Bear Bint! Thank-you for posting it.....
"Don't get distracted, myself. Don't get distracted." Self-talk from a young relative
Bruce Jenkins changes his mind:
Why I'm changing my mind about Caitlin Clark and the Paris Olympics
" I've been watching Caitlin Clark assiduously, maybe even obsessively, for years now. My wife jokes about it, but she too has been drawn into the spectacle of watching Clark, because we've both been so taken by the caliber of performance in the WNBA that we watch at least one full game each night, checking out the rest on 10-minute highlight packages provided by the league's reputable app.
When folks began pondering the notion of Clark making the U.S. Olympic team, I was totally in favor and went public with it.
That was two months ago, and it is no longer the case. Upon reconsideration, there isn't a hint of logic to support her being in Paris.
Everything about the timing is wrong. Clark wasn't able to participate in a single USA training camp. She broke into the league with an Indiana Fever team that hasn't been impressive in any way, from the coaching to the efforts to get Clark open shots, and a brutally crowded schedule ruled out a ton of practice time. Always looking a bit desperate, swarmed at every turn, Clark is leading the league in turnovers (nearly six per game) and hitting barely a third of her 3-point shots. She really does need a break, on both the physical and emotional fronts."
Gift link: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/jenkins/article/changing-mind-caitlin-clark-paris-olympics-19514569.php?
"
Why I'm changing my mind about Caitlin Clark and the Paris Olympics
" I've been watching Caitlin Clark assiduously, maybe even obsessively, for years now. My wife jokes about it, but she too has been drawn into the spectacle of watching Clark, because we've both been so taken by the caliber of performance in the WNBA that we watch at least one full game each night, checking out the rest on 10-minute highlight packages provided by the league's reputable app.
When folks began pondering the notion of Clark making the U.S. Olympic team, I was totally in favor and went public with it.
That was two months ago, and it is no longer the case. Upon reconsideration, there isn't a hint of logic to support her being in Paris.
Everything about the timing is wrong. Clark wasn't able to participate in a single USA training camp. She broke into the league with an Indiana Fever team that hasn't been impressive in any way, from the coaching to the efforts to get Clark open shots, and a brutally crowded schedule ruled out a ton of practice time. Always looking a bit desperate, swarmed at every turn, Clark is leading the league in turnovers (nearly six per game) and hitting barely a third of her 3-point shots. She really does need a break, on both the physical and emotional fronts."
Gift link: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/jenkins/article/changing-mind-caitlin-clark-paris-olympics-19514569.php?
"
I hope the expectations and the load don't destroy her.
stu said:
I hope the expectations and the load don't destroy her.
The pressure and physical toll on her is only half of it
The other half is being at the center of the culture wars
Not sure which is tougher on her
Well, C.C. is young and, as they say, resilient. I think she'll be OK (although, under such circumstances, I'd really want some sports therapy).stu said:
I hope the expectations and the load don't destroy her.
"Don't get distracted, myself. Don't get distracted." Self-talk from a young relative
BearBint said:Well, C.C. is young and, as they say, resilient. I think she'll be OK (although, under such circumstances, I'd really want some sports therapy).stu said:
I hope the expectations and the load don't destroy her.
Clark and Boston had a good game today against the Chicago Sky. Reece is a rebounding machine at power forward, but she is a terrible shooter. Chennedy Carter looked good for the Sky.
JUST IN: WNBA player Angel Reese viciously elbows Caitlin Clark in the head as she goes in for a layup.
— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) June 16, 2024
Reese could be seen completely missing the ball and making contact with Clark's head instead.
She was called for a flagrant 1.
The move comes as more and more WNBA players… pic.twitter.com/VOmjloMTRX
Reese came close to blocking Caitlin but she missed everything except her head.
stu said:
I hope the expectations and the load don't destroy her.
Caitlin Clark is the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ PTS • 75+ REB • 75+ AST. pic.twitter.com/Kq8W8uWgCr
— StatMamba (@StatMamba) June 16, 2024
Anyone who knows the basketball rules know this is a clear fragrant 1 foul, as she made hard contact with her head
It was not a fragrant 2 as it was deemed unintentional
Only Reese knows if it was intentional or not but if you play basketball you know it's very unusual to take a swing like that from behind
First the chance of fouling is very high and chance to get a clean block is very low. Still doesn't mean it was intentional and refs made the right call
However two things:
1. A hard foul like that would very often start a fight, whether in a pickup, HS, college or pro game
2. Many people are saying it shouldn't have been a fragrant 1 …. Huh???
It was not a fragrant 2 as it was deemed unintentional
Only Reese knows if it was intentional or not but if you play basketball you know it's very unusual to take a swing like that from behind
First the chance of fouling is very high and chance to get a clean block is very low. Still doesn't mean it was intentional and refs made the right call
However two things:
1. A hard foul like that would very often start a fight, whether in a pickup, HS, college or pro game
2. Many people are saying it shouldn't have been a fragrant 1 …. Huh???
bear2034 said:JUST IN: WNBA player Angel Reese viciously elbows Caitlin Clark in the head as she goes in for a layup.
— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) June 16, 2024
Reese could be seen completely missing the ball and making contact with Clark's head instead.
She was called for a flagrant 1.
The move comes as more and more WNBA players… pic.twitter.com/VOmjloMTRX
Reese came close to blocking Caitlin but she missed everything except her head.
HoopDreams said:
However two things:
1. A hard foul like that would very often start a fight, whether in a pickup, HS, college or pro game
2. Many people are saying it shouldn't have been a fragrant 1 …. Huh???
Her teammates should do a better job sticking up for her.
Where are Caitlin Clark's teammates? | Our Brown Leather Couch | dailycal.org
DRAMA SELLS🏀: This weekend's Fever-Sky game with Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese averaged 2.25 million viewers on CBS making it the most-watched WNBA game in 23 years. pic.twitter.com/9HbmoIJ6mb
— @amuse (@amuse) June 18, 2024
Ashfield63 said:oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Chelsea Gray continues to be injured, but she may be starting to attend shoot-around. Arike and DeWanna Bonner would be great on the Olympic team , so would Becky Hammond as the coach. The future looks bright for TEAM USA!!!
From ESPN.com on June 15 regarding Arike Ogunbowale:
Dallas Wings guard Arike Ogunbowale told the "Nightcap" podcast in an episode released Thursday that she took her name out of the pool for the U.S. women's basketball Olympic team "months ago" and that she thinks "politics" goes into the selection of the squad.
Interesting point. I remember the shock of Becky Hammon's not being invited to try out for the 2008 Olympics, never mind that she was runner-up MVP for the W. So she played for Russia instead, perhaps reasoning that she might be past her prime in 2012, and was criticized for that, even accused of being a traitor.Quote:
From ESPN.com on June 15 regarding Arike Ogunbowale:
Dallas Wings guard Arike Ogunbowale told the "Nightcap" podcast in an episode released Thursday that she took her name out of the pool for the U.S. women's basketball Olympic team "months ago" and that she thinks "politics" goes into the selection of the squad.
"Don't get distracted, myself. Don't get distracted." Self-talk from a young relative
BearBint said:Interesting point. I remember the shock of Becky Hammon's not being invited to try out for the 2008 Olympics, never mind that she was runner-up MVP for the W. So she played for Russia instead, perhaps reasoning that she might be past her prime in 2012, and was criticized for that, even accused of being a traitor.Quote:
From ESPN.com on June 15 regarding Arike Ogunbowale:
Dallas Wings guard Arike Ogunbowale told the "Nightcap" podcast in an episode released Thursday that she took her name out of the pool for the U.S. women's basketball Olympic team "months ago" and that she thinks "politics" goes into the selection of the squad.
Nobody shut up the Olympic committee better than Jaylen Brown....he isn't on the team but got MVP of the NBA Finals...
Oguwonbale is the definition of volume shooter -- which the US does not need in the Olympics.
She's an indifferent defender and in terms of team construction, to be effective she needs to take the majority of the shots. That's not how Team USA works.
She's a good player and can score as well as anyone, but there's more to the game than scoring.
She's an indifferent defender and in terms of team construction, to be effective she needs to take the majority of the shots. That's not how Team USA works.
She's a good player and can score as well as anyone, but there's more to the game than scoring.
20,366 fans showed up on Tuesday night to watch Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever take on the Las Vegas Aces at the T-Mobile arena.
This was the largest crowd to see a WNBA game in 25 years. This was also the most-attended sporting event at the T-Mobile arena in its history.
This was the largest crowd to see a WNBA game in 25 years. This was also the most-attended sporting event at the T-Mobile arena in its history.
A great reflection of the excitement for CC et. al....a more subtle reminder that the Pac-12 didn't set the record lolbear2034 said:
20,366 fans showed up on Tuesday night to watch Caitlin Clark and the Indiana Fever take on the Las Vegas Aces at the T-Mobile arena.
This was the largest crowd to see a WNBA game in 25 years. This was also the most-attended sporting event at the T-Mobile arena in its history.
.stu said:
Triple double: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/06/caitlin-clark-makes-wnba-history-with-first-ever-rookie-triple-double
Oh but please let us have more posts about how she isn't special..
Caitlin Clark had a historic performance in Indiana's win over the #1 New York Liberty ⬇️
— WNBA (@WNBA) July 6, 2024
19 PTS
12 REB
13 AST
She becomes the 1st rookie in WNBA history & the 1st player in Fever history to record a triple-double, while also becoming the fastest player to 350+ PTS & 150+ AST! pic.twitter.com/CYDdC0JNQv
DT's the goat but taking space on the Paris roster.
If. she wanted an Olympic swan song, she shoulda scheduled an earlier retirement or stayed in better shape,
Caitlin Clark woulda contributed a helluva lot more in Paris than Napheesa Collier mustered up in Tokyo (totals of 5 pts, 3 rbs, 0 stls, 0 asts, 0 blks, 3 to's through the entire tournament).
Note: Collier was already on the Tokyo WBB 3x3 team, withdrew b/c "unable to participate", instantly replaced by UConn bff Katie Lou (who had half as much success/productivity at the pro-level compared to what several other options from training camp had under their belts), and resurfaced in the pool vying for a 5x5 team spot.
They say a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, but not when it comes to USA Basketball and UConn connections!
If. she wanted an Olympic swan song, she shoulda scheduled an earlier retirement or stayed in better shape,
Caitlin Clark woulda contributed a helluva lot more in Paris than Napheesa Collier mustered up in Tokyo (totals of 5 pts, 3 rbs, 0 stls, 0 asts, 0 blks, 3 to's through the entire tournament).
Note: Collier was already on the Tokyo WBB 3x3 team, withdrew b/c "unable to participate", instantly replaced by UConn bff Katie Lou (who had half as much success/productivity at the pro-level compared to what several other options from training camp had under their belts), and resurfaced in the pool vying for a 5x5 team spot.
They say a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, but not when it comes to USA Basketball and UConn connections!
Napheesa Collier is one of the best players in the WNBA, though she was recently injured. She is having a spectacular season, and is the best player on Minnesota, which is the most surprising team in the league.
DT's leadership and experience is valued by everyone, players and coaches, and she can still shoot it -- which is what USA Basketball needs against international teams that will zone up and hope the US misses. Could Caitlin Clark have shot as well as DT? Yes. But she would have brought little else to the team as the 11th or 12th player.
Clark's presence would have had some impact on TV ratings, but it's hard to see how much, as she would have only played a little,
If team selection was a popularity contest, Clark is a starter. It's about winning, however, and the best eight or nine will get all the minutes -- and Clark is some distance from being in that group.
DT's leadership and experience is valued by everyone, players and coaches, and she can still shoot it -- which is what USA Basketball needs against international teams that will zone up and hope the US misses. Could Caitlin Clark have shot as well as DT? Yes. But she would have brought little else to the team as the 11th or 12th player.
Clark's presence would have had some impact on TV ratings, but it's hard to see how much, as she would have only played a little,
If team selection was a popularity contest, Clark is a starter. It's about winning, however, and the best eight or nine will get all the minutes -- and Clark is some distance from being in that group.
Yes, Phee is killing it in what seems like a perfect situation for her in Minnesota, not just this year but last year's stats were remarkable too. Totally deserves a spot in Paris.
........but how do you slice her pathetic showing in Tokyo? She was deadweight and a premature inclusion. clearly Geno and the UConn's connections orchestrated her addition/selection for the Tokyo 5x5, part of which required bulldozing Nneka Ogwumike out of the running. No player would give up a 3x3 spot they already secured and committed to take a stab at the 5x5 tryouts unless they had assurance that they'd be given a spot.
........but how do you slice her pathetic showing in Tokyo? She was deadweight and a premature inclusion. clearly Geno and the UConn's connections orchestrated her addition/selection for the Tokyo 5x5, part of which required bulldozing Nneka Ogwumike out of the running. No player would give up a 3x3 spot they already secured and committed to take a stab at the 5x5 tryouts unless they had assurance that they'd be given a spot.
DT has shot the 3-ball very well in Olympic competition. But she could barely keep starstruck college kids in front of her get beat bad on defense in the Team USA tour exhibition games.
It's not just UConn. Tamika Catchings had publicly stated her goal was 3 olympic golds, then suddenly she wanted a 4th, and it wasn't even a goal , she virtually campaigned it was a foregone conclusion that she would be selected.
Parker easily should have had Catchings's spot in 2016.
Then of course Kara Lawson made the 2008 team, though actually played her tail off and demonstrating how a couple spots are a bit discretionary b/c of how much Talent the US has. But seems like too often those discretionary pics favor UConn alum. Like Swin Cash And Ashja Jones in 2012. Jones play about 4 minutes of good defense on Liz Cambage but other than Cash/Jones just road the team's coattails while finish last in points and rebounds. Dewanna Bonner, Rebekkah Brunson, Candice Dupree, Nneka Ogwumike, Crystal Langhorne all would have been better choices.
I will say, Sue Bird really got it together before her final Olympics. She was basically not just assured a spot but also allowed to design plans for the training camps, well in advance of the games, despite coming off a signficant injury and the worst season of her career, culminating in that loss to Oregon Ducks, where Sue was moving like trudging through sand. But she absolutely transformed come Tokyo and was in better shape that many of her younger teammates.
It's not just UConn. Tamika Catchings had publicly stated her goal was 3 olympic golds, then suddenly she wanted a 4th, and it wasn't even a goal , she virtually campaigned it was a foregone conclusion that she would be selected.
Parker easily should have had Catchings's spot in 2016.
Then of course Kara Lawson made the 2008 team, though actually played her tail off and demonstrating how a couple spots are a bit discretionary b/c of how much Talent the US has. But seems like too often those discretionary pics favor UConn alum. Like Swin Cash And Ashja Jones in 2012. Jones play about 4 minutes of good defense on Liz Cambage but other than Cash/Jones just road the team's coattails while finish last in points and rebounds. Dewanna Bonner, Rebekkah Brunson, Candice Dupree, Nneka Ogwumike, Crystal Langhorne all would have been better choices.
I will say, Sue Bird really got it together before her final Olympics. She was basically not just assured a spot but also allowed to design plans for the training camps, well in advance of the games, despite coming off a signficant injury and the worst season of her career, culminating in that loss to Oregon Ducks, where Sue was moving like trudging through sand. But she absolutely transformed come Tokyo and was in better shape that many of her younger teammates.
So if you watch the WNBA closely, you see a lot of players with really poor defensive fundamentals. This year, NaLyssa Smith and Rickea Jackson has jumped out at me as being particularly bad with footwork, team defense and basically just trying at that end.
Then if you watch UConn players, even borderline ones who barely hang on to the league, their defensive fundamentals are outstanding. They move, they adjust, they understand the game. They also understand how to play on a star-studded roster and don't need to shoot every other trip down the floor.
At the Olympic level, there are plenty of stars, and the players we're talking about are Olympic role players. That means they have to defend, have to be fundamentally sound and have to understand and accept their role.
There's a pervading sense that some kind of UConn conspiracy is at work here, but from my perspective, it's more that players come out of UConn with all the pieces in place to be as good as they can be. They come out of Tennessee, say, with big holes in their game because the coaching isn't nearly as good there.
As for Taurasi, defensive stats are notoriously unreliable, but Taurasi's are just fine. And if you watch her, guarding the other team's worst perimeter player, her ability to play team defense and understand situations makes up for a lot. (And Olympic opponents will have at least one weak perimeter scorer ...)
And again, everyone -- players and coaches -- says Taurasi's presence on the Olympic team is invaluable due to her experience and leadership.
Then if you watch UConn players, even borderline ones who barely hang on to the league, their defensive fundamentals are outstanding. They move, they adjust, they understand the game. They also understand how to play on a star-studded roster and don't need to shoot every other trip down the floor.
At the Olympic level, there are plenty of stars, and the players we're talking about are Olympic role players. That means they have to defend, have to be fundamentally sound and have to understand and accept their role.
There's a pervading sense that some kind of UConn conspiracy is at work here, but from my perspective, it's more that players come out of UConn with all the pieces in place to be as good as they can be. They come out of Tennessee, say, with big holes in their game because the coaching isn't nearly as good there.
As for Taurasi, defensive stats are notoriously unreliable, but Taurasi's are just fine. And if you watch her, guarding the other team's worst perimeter player, her ability to play team defense and understand situations makes up for a lot. (And Olympic opponents will have at least one weak perimeter scorer ...)
And again, everyone -- players and coaches -- says Taurasi's presence on the Olympic team is invaluable due to her experience and leadership.
oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Clark just set a record for most assists in a WNBA game...the "lots of players better than her" argument gets more stale by the day...
getting harder to justify her not being on the olympic team. i have a feeling she'll be a last day replacement.mbBear said:oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Clark just set a record for most assists in a WNBA game...the "lots of players better than her" argument gets more stale by the day...
from a women's basketball marketing standpoint, bad decision to leave her off. audience will be a faction of what it could be.
I actually think her best skill is her passingmbBear said:oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Clark just set a record for most assists in a WNBA game...the "lots of players better than her" argument gets more stale by the day...
that many people think that Angel should win Rookie POY is puzzling, although Angel is a great rebounder
graguna said:getting harder to justify her not being on the olympic team. i have a feeling she'll be a last day replacement.mbBear said:oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Clark just set a record for most assists in a WNBA game...the "lots of players better than her" argument gets more stale by the day...
from a women's basketball marketing standpoint, bad decision to leave her off. audience will be a faction of what it could be.
Exactly. MLB starts a rookie pitcher in the All Star game because he is the future, not because he is the best pitcher in the NL...
I'm actually happy for CC to get some time off after everything she has been through this calendar year. Whatever it means to help grow the sport, I don't even care anymore...I think she deserves a break.
I've seen a ton more coverage of the WNBA on mainstream media to the point of ESPN front page coverage
I don't even think the prior WNBA championship game got as much coverage
I don't even think the prior WNBA championship game got as much coverage
mbBear said:graguna said:getting harder to justify her not being on the olympic team. i have a feeling she'll be a last day replacement.mbBear said:oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Clark just set a record for most assists in a WNBA game...the "lots of players better than her" argument gets more stale by the day...
from a women's basketball marketing standpoint, bad decision to leave her off. audience will be a faction of what it could be.
Exactly. MLB starts a rookie pitcher in the All Star game because he is the future, not because he is the best pitcher in the NL...
I'm actually happy for CC to get some time off after everything she has been through this calendar year. Whatever it means to help grow the sport, I don't even care anymore...I think she deserves a break.
i watch the W almost daily. I think I watched one game prior to this yearHoopDreams said:
I've seen a ton more coverage of the WNBA on mainstream media to the point of ESPN front page coverage
I don't even think the prior WNBA championship game got as much coveragembBear said:graguna said:getting harder to justify her not being on the olympic team. i have a feeling she'll be a last day replacement.mbBear said:oski003 said:
Actually, forget CC. From a basketball standpoint, Arike Ogunbowale should have made the team over CC, Gray, and DT. All things considered, I'd go Ogunbowale, then CC, then Bonner, then DT, then Griner, then Gray.
Clark just set a record for most assists in a WNBA game...the "lots of players better than her" argument gets more stale by the day...
from a women's basketball marketing standpoint, bad decision to leave her off. audience will be a faction of what it could be.
Exactly. MLB starts a rookie pitcher in the All Star game because he is the future, not because he is the best pitcher in the NL...
I'm actually happy for CC to get some time off after everything she has been through this calendar year. Whatever it means to help grow the sport, I don't even care anymore...I think she deserves a break.
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