Wake Forest forecast

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gljone
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1:16p, 1/19/25
So much for 'buttoning' it up.

To have 60 TOs over two games and win one of them is actually...ok, it's bad.

Then again, who thought 17-3 at this point of the season?

Take the good with the bad...I guess.

If Cal can beat Stanford, then who cares about the 60 TOs? (in the short term)

Seriously, if Cal can keep their TOs <15, they're a dangerous team against anyone.

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ethan0l
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1:22p, 1/19/25
My favorite part of this game was exactly as was said, after the second quarter this was never in doubt. Wake is a bad team but it's on the road after a demoralizing loss. Good/great teams, which it feels like we could be, handle games like this exactly how we did it. Excited for Stanfurd this week.
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SFCALBear72
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1:54p, 1/19/25
You can bet that Charmin will put an emphasis on reducing turnovers during this week's practice sessions. And going forward.

There may have been some nervousness during this game after Thursday's blowout which may have led to more turnovers. We'll see.

Apparently, Charmin agrees as evidenced by her postgame comments:

On the team's defense… "We were solid defensively. We had a few lulls there, but I thought our defensive effort was okay. I'm just not pleased with the turnovers and the decision making. So, we have a lot to fix before Thursday."

On the team's mentality going into the game… "I feel like we all knew we got our butts kicked and we were all eager to have a chance to do it better. I don't think you have to say much when you when you get beat the way that we did. Everybody knew that it wasn't our best performance, and we had to clean up a lot. We still need to clean up a lot."
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ncbears
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2:11p, 1/19/25
Cal had more turnovers than made baskets and won. Not sure how often that happens!
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Schroeder71
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2:36p, 1/19/25
Half of Wake Forest's points came off of Cal's 28 turnovers. It makes one wonder how good the Bears could be IF...The coach should outlaw the long lob pass into Onyiah. I would guess that causes at least 5-6 TOs per game. Kayla Williams can do a lot of good things, but she really struggles with that long lob pass straight over the top. There was a turnover on that precise play on Cal's initial offensive possession after the opening tip. How can the point guard open up the game with such a low percentage pass? Why is Kayla even thinking thoughts like that?

Why are the coaches not discussing some of these ridiculous self-inflicted miscues with their players?
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wvitbear
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2:38p, 1/19/25
I saw a game a week or so ago, where some team like Alabama had 30 turnovers and won by 20 points. Women turn the ball over more than men. Sometimes it depends on how the other team plays you.
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ethan0l
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In reply to Schroeder71 • 2:39p, 1/19/25
I disagree. I think that Marta driving and handling the ball creates far more turnovers than what I think is a necessary strategy to establish Michelle downlow.
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wvitbear
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2:41p, 1/19/25
Against Clemson, we had 15 turnovers and lost by 11.
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Schroeder71
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2:48p, 1/19/25
ethan0l-both plays cause a high percentage of turnovers. I'm not talking about a pass to Onyiah when she has position and is open. I'm talking about the long lob with no angle and she is not open. It's an "alley oop pass" like the 49ers used to do w/ RC Owens. The angle for the entry pass is better from the side than straight over the top. Krimili has earned most of her assists off of that entry pass.
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ethan0l
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In reply to Schroeder71 • 2:50p, 1/19/25
Ok, we're in complete agreement.
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to Schroeder71 • 2:58p, 1/19/25
Schroeder71 said:
Half of Wake Forest's points came off of Cal's 28 turnovers. It makes one wonder how good the Bears could be IF...The coach should outlaw the long lob pass into Onyiah. I would guess that causes at least 5-6 TOs per game. Kayla Williams can do a lot of good things, but she really struggles with that long lob pass straight over the top. There was a turnover on that precise play on Cal's initial offensive possession after the opening tip. How can the point guard open up the game with such a low percentage pass? Why is Kayla even thinking thoughts like that?

Why are the coaches not discussing some of these ridiculous self-inflicted miscues with their players?
Again, it's not quite as simple as just deciding "don't make the long pass."
The pass cannot be telegraphed.
The distance of the pass needs to be addressed.
The angle of the pass (especially in relation to where the defenders are) has to be addressed.

But it has to be noted that during the course of the game, there are times when these passes SHOULD be made. With our 3 point shooting ability, opponents will extend, so it's necessary to have this in our arsenal to keep teams honest, otherwise we can be suffocated.

There needs to be work on when and how to execute this. Time to get on it.
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annarborbear
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5:03p, 1/19/25
Whenever I watch a game on replay, I try to focus on our turnovers. My disappointment is that when they are really out of control, they are coming from everybody all over the court. Not sure what can address this, along with our overall negative assist/TO ratio as a team and our average of 15 points scored off of turnovers against us per game. Any other ideas on what can really bring this down in future games?
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Woodacre
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7:48p, 1/19/25
Attendance was 1123 at Wake Forest, for those who are curious about those sorts of things.
Other ACC Road games
Duke had 2428.
SMU had 1323
Clemson had 1143

4 Game Road Average: 1504

ACC Home games:
Stanford: 3189
NC State: 1874
Florida State: 2311

3 Game Home Average: 2458
Without Stanford: 2092

So...there has been discussion about Cal home attendance...still seems to be above the ACC average, albeit a small sample size.

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mostlyfriendly
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In reply to wvitbear • 10:30p, 1/19/25
wvitbear said:
I saw a game a week or so ago, where some team like Alabama had 30 turnovers and won by 20 points. Women turn the ball over more than men. Sometimes it depends on how the other team plays you.
There's also typically a lot more defense in women's basketball, so I don't think this is really a useful comparison. The styles of play are just too different for most stat comparisons to actually be that helpful.
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stu
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In reply to Schroeder71 • 10:59p, 1/19/25
Schroeder71 said:
Half of Wake Forest's points came off of Cal's 28 turnovers. It makes one wonder how good the Bears could be IF...The coach should outlaw the long lob pass into Onyiah. I would guess that causes at least 5-6 TOs per game. Kayla Williams can do a lot of good things, but she really struggles with that long lob pass straight over the top. There was a turnover on that precise play on Cal's initial offensive possession after the opening tip. How can the point guard open up the game with such a low percentage pass? Why is Kayla even thinking thoughts like that?

Why are the coaches not discussing some of these ridiculous self-inflicted miscues with their players?
At one of the recent chalk talks Charmin mentioned discussing this problem with some of her mentors. Tara told her to make the team watch video of every turnover, another mentor (whose name I forget) told her they're kids, forget it and focus on the positive things.
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stu
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In reply to gljone • 11:01p, 1/19/25
gljone said:
So much for 'buttoning' it up.

To have 60 TOs over two games and win one of them is actually...ok, it's bad.

Then again, who thought 17-3 at this point of the season?

Take the good with the bad...I guess.

If Cal can beat Stanford, then who cares about the 60 TOs? (in the short term)

Seriously, if Cal can keep their TOs <15, they're a dangerous team against anyone.
To me any conference road win is pure joy, no matter if some aspects were plain ugly. Keep this up and we'll be balling in March!
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HoopDreams
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11:36p, 1/19/25
this Cal team also plays fast, and that creates a lot of scores

that's an improvement from prior years when we didn't play fast but still had lots of turnovers

as for turnovers today ... most of the turnovers from traveling and 3 second violations shouldn't have been called, and YES, we should not stand there, look straight at the center for 2 seconds and then try the entry pass

as for Marta's turnovers, she needs to look to pass some of those times when she drives deep. Not just when she gets stopped, but before that point. Also, sometimes her drives put a ton of pressure on the defense and she's a major force... other times the defense stops her and steals the ball ... Coach needs to know which matchups work for her and which do not and adjust
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SFCALBear72
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7:00a, 1/20/25
S71 mentioned the "mental and emotional" state of the Cal players in his forecast.

Maybe there was some truth to that in play during Sunday's game. Subconsciously. I now think that the Duke game and their defensive schemes truly rattled our players. So, on Sunday, they played faster and were thinking one or two plays ahead to ensure that this game would be different. They desperately wanted to score the basket. This frenzy brought more turnovers.
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smh
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In reply to mostlyfriendly • 8:54a, 1/20/25
Quote:
> There's also typically a lot more defense in women's basketball, so I don't think this is really a useful comparison. The styles of play are just too different for most stat comparisons to actually be that helpful.
thanks, and welcome to cybears
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BearBint
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10:09a, 1/20/25
Nick Kranz on turnovers and the women's game: https://writeforcalifornia.com/p/cal-wbb-recap-a-turnover-filled-road
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HoopDreams
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In reply to BearBint • 11:59a, 1/20/25
BearBint said:
Nick Kranz on turnovers and the women's game: https://writeforcalifornia.com/p/cal-wbb-recap-a-turnover-filled-road
not sure you're suppose to link competitor sites here, but he's absolutely right about the 10 walk/3 sec calls
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annarborbear
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2:00p, 1/20/25
I am not recommending it, but I do remember what Bobby Knight did about turnovers and other mistakes - an immediate trip to the bench. He said it caused the following sequence - Coach sends player to bench, bench sends message to butt, butt sends message to mouth, mouth sends message to coach: "Yes, Coach, I am now ready to follow your instructions".
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to annarborbear • 2:42p, 1/20/25
annarborbear said:
I am not recommending it, but I do remember what Bobby Knight did about turnovers and other mistakes - an immediate trip to the bench. He said it caused the following sequence - Coach sends player to bench, bench sends message to butt, butt sends message to mouth, mouth sends message to coach: "Yes, Coach, I am now ready to follow your instructions".
only problem with this might be all five starters finding the bench in the first two minutes.
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annarborbear
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 3:25p, 1/20/25
RedlessWardrobe said:
annarborbear said:
I am not recommending it, but I do remember what Bobby Knight did about turnovers and other mistakes - an immediate trip to the bench. He said it caused the following sequence - Coach sends player to bench, bench sends message to butt, butt sends message to mouth, mouth sends message to coach: "Yes, Coach, I am now ready to follow your instructions".
only problem with this might be all five starters finding the bench in the first two minutes.
I saw Knight do this with some of his best players when they were going against Michigan. But it only lasted for about 30 seconds before the message was received, and never toward the end of a game. Quinn Buckner and Bobby Wilkerson were among the recipients. But in the portal era, it would not go over well.
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