Yes, I know other threads have mentioned this before, but I'm simply breaking it down a bit.

For one, I was told be a very knowledgeable SoCal fan that Simon was not on pace to qualify for a UC a couple months ago. While I know Gottlieb takes care of her girls on and off the court, USC might have been the easier choice academically. I was also told that that Simon was leaning toward Cal a after her visit, but perhaps the reality of a tougher academic environment sunk in and ultimately lead to her decision.

I think Simon would have been a slightly bigger contributor than Waters given that she is, well, slightly bigger and more of a post player. But it;s nice having Waters already in the mix and Range appears to be better than both even playing out of position a bit at the 4.

KRISTINE ANIGWE, KRISTINE ANIGWE, KRISTINE ANIGWE. I have high hopes for this one. At 6'3"/6'4" she is a better fit and seems like an articulate young lady who might manage the academic environment at Cal better. She is ranked #41 and #59 and from what I've read and seen (just a glimpse on film), I think she will only go up from there. I could see her working her way up to the 15-20 range. I have a really good feeling about her. If I had to choose between Simon and Anigwe, I would choose Anigwe, just my hunch.

Remember, Simon was a top 10 recruit entering high school then fell out of the top 50. Which to me means limited upside. I've seen video where she looked great with graceful, ballerina like footwork, but I've also see video where she looked slow and undersized.

Anyway, congrats to USC and Simon. She will get more PT there.

kat0189;842221613 said:

---

Yes, I know other threads have mentioned this before, but I'm simply breaking it down a bit.

For one, I was told be a very knowledgeable SoCal fan that Simon was not on pace to qualify for a UC a couple months ago. While I know Gottlieb takes care of her girls on and off the court, USC might have been the easier choice academically. I was also told that that Simon was leaning toward Cal a after her visit, but perhaps the reality of a tougher academic environment sunk in and ultimately lead to her decision.

I think Simon would have been a slightly bigger contributor than Waters given that she is, well, slightly bigger and more of a post player. But it;s nice having Waters already in the mix and Range appears to be better than both even playing out of position a bit at the 4.

KRISTINE ANIGWE, KRISTINE ANIGWE, KRISTINE ANIGWE. I have high hopes for this one. At 6'3"/6'4" she is a better fit and seems like an articulate young lady who might manage the academic environment at Cal better. She is ranked #41 and #59 and from what I've read and seen (just a glimpse on film), I think she will only go up from there. I could see her working her way up to the 15-20 range. I have a really good feeling about her. If I had to choose between Simon and Anigwe, I would choose Anigwe, just my hunch.

Remember, Simon was a top 10 recruit entering high school then fell out of the top 50. Which to me means limited upside. I've seen video where she looked great with graceful, ballerina like footwork, but I've also see video where she looked slow and undersized.

Anyway, congrats to USC and Simon. She will get more PT there.

---

Good post.

Agree with the academics. It makes me laugh when people say Cal and $C are both good schools. Fact is Cal is a much better school overall and MUCH tougher to get into and graduate. The success Lindsay has had graduating her players is on par with getting Cal to the Final Four.

I would feel worse about losing out on Drummer and Simon if not for the great commitment from Anigwe. I don't know if she will be as good as Drummer, but I have confidence that she is an upgrade over Simon. The remaining problem is that we need at least 2 more Bigs in addition to Anigwe if we want to continue to play Lindsay-Ball. Our game depends on strong rebounding and Bigs who can run and defend. That style requires a strong rotation of at least 4 quality Bigs. Remeber, Lindsay's goal is to be elite, not just good. So, that is what is needed to play our style of basketball. By the time Anigwe and her classmates get here, only KC and Range will remain as far as Bigs go. Considering Range is probably nest suited as a wing, we will need those 3 new Bigs to team with KC.

Making the task of finding a couple more Bigs for 2015 even more difficult is the fact that the 2015 class is not stocked with many quality Bigs at all. And almost none are in California. That's why getting Anigwe to commit is great. It is also why losing Simon and Drummer is a bigger deal than it would normally be. Well, this will be a great test for Lindsay and her staff. Can she beat the Pac-12 teams and many national powers for the best players? So far her recruiting results has been mixed with some spectacular successes, but also glaring failures. Gonna be very interesting as Bigs are not our only need. PG is another area that must be addressed with the 2015 class. Plus, we still need a pure shooter. What really scares me is that even if she gets her 3 Bigs, an outstanding PG and another Clarendon, they will all be freshmen taking the place of Boyd, Gray, Hartman, Dunn and Shine! Double-Yikes!!

kat0189;842221613 said:

---

Yes, I know other threads have mentioned this before, but I'm simply breaking it down a bit.

For one, I was told be a very knowledgeable SoCal fan that Simon was not on pace to qualify for a UC a couple months ago. While I know Gottlieb takes care of her girls on and off the court, USC might have been the easier choice academically. I was also told that that Simon was leaning toward Cal a after her visit, but perhaps the reality of a tougher academic environment sunk in and ultimately lead to her decision.

I think Simon would have been a slightly bigger contributor than Waters given that she is, well, slightly bigger and more of a post player. But it;s nice having Waters already in the mix and Range appears to be better than both even playing out of position a bit at the 4.

KRISTINE ANIGWE, KRISTINE ANIGWE, KRISTINE ANIGWE. I have high hopes for this one. At 6'3"/6'4" she is a better fit and seems like an articulate young lady who might manage the academic environment at Cal better. She is ranked #41 and #59 and from what I've read and seen (just a glimpse on film), I think she will only go up from there. I could see her working her way up to the 15-20 range. I have a really good feeling about her. If I had to choose between Simon and Anigwe, I would choose Anigwe, just my hunch.

Remember, Simon was a top 10 recruit entering high school then fell out of the top 50. Which to me means limited upside. I've seen video where she looked great with graceful, ballerina like footwork, but I've also see video where she looked slow and undersized.

Anyway, congrats to USC and Simon. She will get more PT there.

---

Yeah, after landing Anigwe this doesn't hurt so bad. It sounds like she has an extremely high ceiling and is already nationally ranked. 6'4 doesn't hurt either.

I wonder if we are recruiting Tarea Green?

kat0189;842221613 said:

---

I think Simon would have been a slightly bigger contributor than Waters given that she is, well, slightly bigger and more of a post player.

---

Agree with you on this, if the intent was to use either as a post player. Though both built similar, Simon has stronger lower body too and we make it more difficult to be pushed around. Water's weight is more in the upper body and her legs are rather slender (IMO). Waters will be quicker but size (ht & wt) will limit her if they want to use her in the post.

Courtney Range's emergence as skilled and versatile enough to handle post duty, when needed, cushions Simon's choice of USC. Is Cal done recruiting bigs for 2014? Anigwe's arrival with the 2015 Class is a bright spot, but, ideally, Lindsay needs to land another skilled big, as well as a PG to lead the Bears, as well as another shooter in 2015, All of who would be freshmen. Green and Cowling will be sophomores is the good news.

kat0189;842221613 said:

---

Anyway, congrats to USC and Simon. She will get more PT there.

---

Yes -- it seems to me Simon will fit better with USC. BTW USC just held off SDSU 65-61.

I agree with most others here that Courtney and Kristine will be better bigs for the kind of basketball we play at Cal. And like everyone else here I'm hoping for another 1 or 2 bigs by 2015.

Does anyone know if we're still involved with other 2014 players, possibly foreigners or spring signers?

I thought we wanted Simon to fill the role that Talia had?
I understand Coach G recruiting only a certain type of Cal student/player-but why limit the offers to so few targets when its possible and as it turns out did happen that most of your offers are not taken ???

I'm not sure why people are so concerned. We have a top recruiting class with 2 talented young women who want to be Cal Bears... Why complain? I trust Lindsay and her staff to know what they're doing.



:Lindsay

CalWBBFan;842221951 said:

---

I'm not sure why people are so concerned. We have a top recruiting class with 2 talented young women who want to be Cal Bears... Why complain? I trust Lindsay and her staff to know what they're doing.

---

Ahh. We hear again from our corporate spokesperson. Lately I can almost predict your comments before I read them. You are beginning to sound like a Republican congressman's press release 3 days after we landed our troops in Iraq.

I'm not sure why people are so concerned. We have a top executive team with 2 talented experienced men who want to bring peace to this area of the world... Why complain? I trust George, Dick and their staff to know what they're doing.

This whole process thrives on differences of opinion about what is going on with our team. The recruiting for 2014 has flaws. True, we have 2 great players coming in next year. But there is also the failure to get any players from any high school in the western U.S. except one. I'd still like to know what went down between Boyle and Morrison in the last days of the Boyle administration. He seems to be continuing his recruiting success at Washington where he took Plummer away from Cal. You're close to the current staff, CalWBBFan. What did happen to Kevin?

This school, this staff and this team do not want fans who just tow the AthDept line all the time. So, by God, let's not give them one. This is Berkeley for crying out loud. We should keep asking questions until we get answers.

:rant :rimshot :rollinglaugh:

Come on WBBFan, you have to know I was pulling your chain. No one will ever mistake you for Dick Cheney, even if you were carrying a shotgun. You've known me for a long time, so I'm not even sure your little pout wasn't designed to yank my chain... I do wonder about Kevin though.

dfineguy;842221994 said:

---

Ahh. We hear again from our corporate spokesperson. Lately I can almost predict your comments before I read them. You are beginning to sound like a Republican congressman's press release 3 days after we landed our troops in Iraq.

I'm not sure why people are so concerned. We have a top executive team with 2 talented experienced men who want to bring peace to this area of the world... Why complain? I trust George, Dick and their staff to know what they're doing.

This whole process thrives on differences of opinion about what is going on with our team. The recruiting for 2014 has flaws. True, we have 2 great players coming in next year. But there is also the failure to get any players from any high school in the western U.S. except one. I'd still like to know what went down between Boyle and Morrison in the last days of the Boyle administration. He seems to be continuing his recruiting success at Washington where he took Plummer away from Cal. You're close to the current staff, CalWBBFan. What did happen to Kevin?

This school, this staff and this team do not want fans who just tow the AthDept line all the time. So, by God, let's not give them one. This is Berkeley for crying out loud. We should keep asking questions until we get answers.

:rant

---

Have to agree with Dfineguy. Cal is so lucky to have these two but it is a little scary that we offered (that we know of) and struck out on Canada, Drummer, Diop, and Simon after a final four appearance. After striking out on Chidom and Plum last year I don't think many of us thought this would happen.

Can't win em all, but I would hope to win more recruiting battles.

dfineguy;842221994 said:

---

Ahh. We hear again from our corporate spokesperson. Lately I can almost predict your comments before I read them. You are beginning to sound like a Republican congressman's press release 3 days after we landed our troops in Iraq.

I'm not sure why people are so concerned. We have a top executive team with 2 talented experienced men who want to bring peace to this area of the world... Why complain? I trust George, Dick and their staff to know what they're doing.

This whole process thrives on differences of opinion about what is going on with our team. The recruiting for 2014 has flaws. True, we have 2 great players coming in next year. But there is also the failure to get any players from any high school in the western U.S. except one. I'd still like to know what went down between Boyle and Morrison in the last days of the Boyle administration. He seems to be continuing his recruiting success at Washington where he took Plummer away from Cal. You're close to the current staff, CalWBBFan. What did happen to Kevin?

This school, this staff and this team do not want fans who just tow the AthDept line all the time. So, by God, let's not give them one. This is Berkeley for crying out loud. We should keep asking questions until we get answers.

:rant

---

Insulting much? Btw I'm not "close" with current staff....not sure where you got that idea. I'm just about as close to them as you are.

Forget it. I'll take my corporate self elsewhere. (Gotta say that's the first time in my life I've been called a Republican...)

Signing off...to let you guys do your Berkeley thang.
:axe

CalWBBFan;842221998 said:

---

Insulting much? Btw I'm not "close" with current staff....not sure where you got that idea. I'm just about as close to them as you are.

Forget it. I'll take my corporate self elsewhere. (Gotta say that's the first time in my life I've been called a Republican...)

Signing off...to let you guys do your Berkeley thang.
:axe

---

Got a good laugh from a USC fan last week screaming "NERDS', and "STUPID LIBERALS" as drunken insults when leaving the game... apparently there are stupid...nerds?

I enjoy your posts, just think fans are allowed to question ( which is what dfine is doing). You clearly are passionate fan and an optimistic one at that! Go Bears

I'm not a corporate spokesperson. But I am extremely happy about picking up Cowling, Green and the big player from Arizona. All are four stars or better and top 60 players. Even higher for Green and Cowling. If we had failed on those three, something would be wrong. Landing those three, plus Range and Jefflo this year, and something is definitely right. We are not going to get them all. But those five are very solid additions.

CalFanatic;842221996 said:

---

Have to agree with Dfineguy. Cal is so lucky to have these two but it is a little scary that we offered (that we know of) and struck out on Canada, Drummer, Diop, and Simon after a final four appearance. After striking out on Chidom and Plum last year I don't think many of us thought this would happen.

Can't win em all, but I would hope to win more recruiting battles.

---

I also agree! If you exclude Cowling who already had committed way before-then landing only Green and not those other 4 listed above for 2014-that's only a 20%success rate. If you do include Cowling in the total of 6 recruits- that would be approx. 33 % success rate. That doesn't seem very high. I would hope for a higher percentage.
BUT I still am happy with those who are going to be Bears!

CalWBBFan;842221998 said:

---

Insulting much? Btw I'm not "close" with current staff....not sure where you got that idea. I'm just about as close to them as you are.

Forget it. I'll take my corporate self elsewhere. (Gotta say that's the first time in my life I've been called a Republican...)

Signing off...to let you guys do your Berkeley thang.
:axe

---

Don't take it personal. I enjoy your comments and commentary but you have to see the other side too. The team, the coaches aren't perfect. People only comments because they love the team/coaches but they want it to get better.

3Cats4CAL;842222059 said:

---

I also agree! If you exclude Cowling who already had committed way before-then landing only Green and not those other 4 listed above for 2014-that's only a 20%success rate. If you do include Cowling in the total of 6 recruits- that would be approx. 33 % success rate. That doesn't seem very high. I would hope for a higher percentage.
BUT I still am happy with those who are going to be Bears!

---

UCLA's class consists of three local SoCal kids who decided to stay home, one out-of-state player who is best friends with one of the local kids, and one Bay Area player who we ranked below Cowlings and Green, as did all rating services.

Duke has one player on their team from North Carolina, and the rest are from out-of-state, as befits their private school and long-standing basketball reputation. Gray and Chidom chose to leave home for school and went to Duke before we had achieved major success.

Our own starting line-up in 2015 will be Anigwe, Range, Cowling, Green and Jefflo, with Hind and KC Waters backing them up. 2015 is a long way away, and I am sure we will pick up another big, at least as a back-up by then, possibly even as a transfer. Our starting line-up will rate with anyone in the country, and will be a terror on defense and in the press.

Our major issue is simply that there are few outstanding bigs right now in California and on the West Coast. We will have to identify another source for the time being. But in the meantime, we seem to have passed Stanford by these past two years in overall recruiting.

I think we have had excellent overall results in a highly competitive business where good players who are good students have many options.

Let's get real here. Lindsay says to anyone who will listen that she intends to build an elite PROGRAM at Cal. That means Cal is vying for the NC annually. To do that you must recruit elite talent that fits your program. To her credit, every one of Lindsay's recruits fit her program. She has refused to take on lesser talent or academic risks, which is smart. She has recruited some really great talent, including two current HS blue-chippers in Green and Cowling. She has already won a conference title and been to the Final Four.

To the observers wearing those Blue-and-Gold tinted glasses, it appears all is well and those complaining are crazy to question Lindsay and her recruiting strategy. Well, here's why some questioning is going on. Lindsay loves big players who can run, defend and rebound. Right? In fact her whole system depends on a rotation of bigs who can do these things with minimal drop off regardless of which ones are in the game. Last year, she had a rotation of Caldwell, Gray, Brandon, and Hartman. When Hartman didn't produce, she went to a rotation of the remaining three bigs. So, nearly the whole game Cal had two bigs on the floor. Sometimes that was a problem. Ideally, Lindsay's system will employ a rotation of four bigs. That will work this year with Brandon, Gray, Hartman/Range and Dunn. We'll have to see how Waters fits. The jury is out until we see her perform against Pac-12 level competition. So, we are good to go with Lindsay-Ball this season. But, what about next season when we lose Brandon? Well, in 2014- 2015 we can put Gray, Hartman, Dunn and Waters/Range into the bigs rotation. Ok. That looks good as long as Hartman gets it together. BUT, what about 2015-16? Our bigs will be Anigwe, Waters, Range and ?. Oh-Oh!

This is the point some of us are trying to make. If you want to be elite every year you MUST successfully recruit elite players at every position of need almost every year. Losing out on Drummer and Simon is a big deal. Does not matter how good our two recruits are, we still need bigs. Know what else? We also need another top level PG. We have failed to land one since getting Boyd. Losing Plum and Canada is huge. Now we must find a 2015 class recruit good enough to direct Lindsay-Ball as a freshman. I know some of you are thinking about Hind. I like Hind as a backup, but not sure she will be an elite level starter. Even if she is, we still need another talented PG in the program. Then there is the fact we need a reliable 3 point shooter. Didn't get one of those either.

Now, I know all the optimists are thinking we'll get our bigs in the 2015 class. Well, that's a great plan if there was a bunch of talented bigs like this year. Bigs who can make an impact as freshmen. Unfortunately, that is not the case. At least not in the Western USA. And, Lindsay has not been setting the world on fire recruiting outside the West Coast. That is why getting Anigwe is huge. But, if we want to play Lindsay-Ball at an elite level we need one to two more bigs in the 2015 class. Considering the pool of talent out there, that is a tall order. Actually, we are lucky there are some good PG's and shooters available.

So, appears to me that those fans concerned about our recruiting are spot on. However, I'm not sure their remedy is always spot on. Lindsay is committed to recruiting only elite players who fit her program. I respect that and that is how national champions are built. BUT, you got to land these athletes and you cannot afford to come up short. Going to Plan B players is not the answer. Instead, Lindsay has to evaluate her staff and her role in the recruiting process. Can this staff recruit consistently at the elite level? We really don't know yet. However, once the 2015 class is completed, we will know. Honestly, their backs are against the wall for the 2015 class and it is not a favorable talent pool they are fishing from. Let's see what our coaches can do with the situation.

Meanwhile, I will continue to remind all of you who think a strong Pac-12 is good for Cal, that the recruiting facts show it is a bad thing for Cal. If pucla had not made the NCAA's last year, there is an excellent chance Drummer and Canada would be Bears right now, regardless of their love for LA. There are practical reasons I root against Pac-12 teams. Heck, Furd built a great program as the only good team in the league. Every good Western player wanted to be a Furd. Soon, they had no problem attracting players from across the country due to their success on the court. For Lindsay and Cal to replicate Furd's success is a big mountain to climb under any circumstance. When you have to fight with healthy pucla, $C, UDumb and Furd programs for the best players, then it's really tough to do. As a donor, season ticket holder, and Cal basketball nut, I'm hoping Lindsay pulls it off.

GOCAL73;842222298 said:

---

Let's get real here. Lindsay says to anyone who will listen that she intends to build an elite PROGRAM at Cal. That means Cal is vying for the NC annually. To do that you must recruit elite talent that fits your program. To her credit, every one of Lindsay's recruits fit her program. She has refused to take on lesser talent or academic risks, which is smart. She has recruited some really great talent, including two current HS blue-chippers in Green and Cowling. She has already won a conference title and been to the Final Four.

To the observers wearing those Blue-and-Gold tinted glasses, it appears all is well and those complaining are crazy to question Lindsay and her recruiting strategy. Well, here's why some questioning is going on. Lindsay loves big players who can run, defend and rebound. Right? In fact her whole system depends on a rotation of bigs who can do these things with minimal drop off regardless of which ones are in the game. Last year, she had a rotation of Caldwell, Gray, Brandon, and Hartman. When Hartman didn't produce, she went to a rotation of the remaining three bigs. So, nearly the whole game Cal had two bigs on the floor. Sometimes that was a problem. Ideally, Lindsay's system will employ a rotation of four bigs. That will work this year with Brandon, Gray, Hartman/Range and Dunn. We'll have to see how Waters fits. The jury is out until we see her perform against Pac-12 level competition. So, we are good to go with Lindsay-Ball this season. But, what about next season when we lose Brandon? Well, in 2014- 2015 we can put Gray, Hartman, Dunn and Waters/Range into the bigs rotation. Ok. That looks good as long as Hartman gets it together. BUT, what about 2015-16? Our bigs will be Anigwe, Waters, Range and ?. Oh-Oh!

This is the point some of us are trying to make. If you want to be elite every year you MUST successfully recruit elite players at every position of need almost every year. Losing out on Drummer and Simon is a big deal. Does not matter how good our two recruits are, we still need bigs. Know what else? We also need another top level PG. We have failed to land one since getting Boyd. Losing Plum and Canada is huge. Now we must find a 2015 class recruit good enough to direct Lindsay-Ball as a freshman. I know some of you are thinking about Hind. I like Hind as a backup, but not sure she will be an elite level starter. Even if she is, we still need another talented PG in the program. Then there is the fact we need a reliable 3 point shooter. Didn't get one of those either.

Now, I know all the optimists are thinking we'll get our bigs in the 2015 class. Well, that's a great plan if there was a bunch of talented bigs like this year. Bigs who can make an impact as freshmen. Unfortunately, that is not the case. At least not in the Western USA. And, Lindsay has not been setting the world on fire recruiting outside the West Coast. That is why getting Anigwe is huge. But, if we want to play Lindsay-Ball at an elite level we need one to two more bigs in the 2015 class. Considering the pool of talent out there, that is a tall order. Actually, we are lucky there are some good PG's and shooters available.

So, appears to me that those fans concerned about our recruiting are spot on. However, I'm not sure their remedy is always spot on. Lindsay is committed to recruiting only elite players who fit her program. I respect that and that is how national champions are built. BUT, you got to land these athletes and you cannot afford to come up short. Going to Plan B players is not the answer. Instead, Lindsay has to evaluate her staff and her role in the recruiting process. Can this staff recruit consistently at the elite level? We really don't know yet. However, once the 2015 class is completed, we will know. Honestly, their backs are against the wall for the 2015 class and it is not a favorable talent pool they are fishing from. Let's see what our coaches can do with the situation.

Meanwhile, I will continue to remind all of you who think a strong Pac-12 is good for Cal, that the recruiting facts show it is a bad thing for Cal. If pucla had not made the NCAA's last year, there is an excellent chance Drummer and Canada would be Bears right now, regardless of their love for LA. There are practical reasons I root against Pac-12 teams. Heck, Furd built a great program as the only good team in the league. Every good Western player wanted to be a Furd. Soon, they had no problem attracting players from across the country due to their success on the court. For Lindsay and Cal to replicate Furd's success is a big mountain to climb under any circumstance. When you have to fight with healthy pucla, $C, UDumb and Furd programs for the best players, then it's really tough to do. As a donor, season ticket holder, and Cal basketball nut, I'm hoping Lindsay pulls it off.

---

You are setting up a standard that is simply not reached overnight, especially by a program that has always drawn its players almost exclusively from California, and with Stanford in our own backyard. If we have another Sweet 16 this year, we will be noticed by additional recruits as a sustainable top program. Having Green at Cal and not at Stanford is this year's major progress.

GOCAL73;842222298 said:

---

Let's get real here. Lindsay says to anyone who will listen that she intends to build an elite PROGRAM at Cal. That means Cal is vying for the NC annually. To do that you must recruit elite talent that fits your program. To her credit, every one of Lindsay's recruits fit her program. She has refused to take on lesser talent or academic risks, which is smart. She has recruited some really great talent, including two current HS blue-chippers in Green and Cowling. She has already won a conference title and been to the Final Four.

To the observers wearing those Blue-and-Gold tinted glasses, it appears all is well and those complaining are crazy to question Lindsay and her recruiting strategy. Well, here's why some questioning is going on. Lindsay loves big players who can run, defend and rebound. Right? In fact her whole system depends on a rotation of bigs who can do these things with minimal drop off regardless of which ones are in the game. Last year, she had a rotation of Caldwell, Gray, Brandon, and Hartman. When Hartman didn't produce, she went to a rotation of the remaining three bigs. So, nearly the whole game Cal had two bigs on the floor. Sometimes that was a problem. Ideally, Lindsay's system will employ a rotation of four bigs. That will work this year with Brandon, Gray, Hartman/Range and Dunn. We'll have to see how Waters fits. The jury is out until we see her perform against Pac-12 level competition. So, we are good to go with Lindsay-Ball this season. But, what about next season when we lose Brandon? Well, in 2014- 2015 we can put Gray, Hartman, Dunn and Waters/Range into the bigs rotation. Ok. That looks good as long as Hartman gets it together. BUT, what about 2015-16? Our bigs will be Anigwe, Waters, Range and ?. Oh-Oh!

This is the point some of us are trying to make. If you want to be elite every year you MUST successfully recruit elite players at every position of need almost every year. Losing out on Drummer and Simon is a big deal. Does not matter how good our two recruits are, we still need bigs. Know what else? We also need another top level PG. We have failed to land one since getting Boyd. Losing Plum and Canada is huge. Now we must find a 2015 class recruit good enough to direct Lindsay-Ball as a freshman. I know some of you are thinking about Hind. I like Hind as a backup, but not sure she will be an elite level starter. Even if she is, we still need another talented PG in the program. Then there is the fact we need a reliable 3 point shooter. Didn't get one of those either.

Now, I know all the optimists are thinking we'll get our bigs in the 2015 class. Well, that's a great plan if there was a bunch of talented bigs like this year. Bigs who can make an impact as freshmen. Unfortunately, that is not the case. At least not in the Western USA. And, Lindsay has not been setting the world on fire recruiting outside the West Coast. That is why getting Anigwe is huge. But, if we want to play Lindsay-Ball at an elite level we need one to two more bigs in the 2015 class. Considering the pool of talent out there, that is a tall order. Actually, we are lucky there are some good PG's and shooters available.

So, appears to me that those fans concerned about our recruiting are spot on. However, I'm not sure their remedy is always spot on. Lindsay is committed to recruiting only elite players who fit her program. I respect that and that is how national champions are built. BUT, you got to land these athletes and you cannot afford to come up short. Going to Plan B players is not the answer. Instead, Lindsay has to evaluate her staff and her role in the recruiting process. Can this staff recruit consistently at the elite level? We really don't know yet. However, once the 2015 class is completed, we will know. Honestly, their backs are against the wall for the 2015 class and it is not a favorable talent pool they are fishing from. Let's see what our coaches can do with the situation.

Meanwhile, I will continue to remind all of you who think a strong Pac-12 is good for Cal, that the recruiting facts show it is a bad thing for Cal. If pucla had not made the NCAA's last year, there is an excellent chance Drummer and Canada would be Bears right now, regardless of their love for LA. There are practical reasons I root against Pac-12 teams. Heck, Furd built a great program as the only good team in the league. Every good Western player wanted to be a Furd. Soon, they had no problem attracting players from across the country due to their success on the court. For Lindsay and Cal to replicate Furd's success is a big mountain to climb under any circumstance. When you have to fight with healthy pucla, $C, UDumb and Furd programs for the best players, then it's really tough to do. As a donor, season ticket holder, and Cal basketball nut, I'm hoping Lindsay pulls it off.

---

+1

gocal, i agree with many of your pts particularly with respects to the bigs recruiting

but you way off re: pg recruiting...there is not a single elite pg in the united states & its territories that would come to cal in the 2013 & 2014 classes knowing that all american brittney boyd is leading the bears until the minute she graduates

cal never really had a chance at canada for that reason...and when hs kids give you their collegiate choice reasoning, they are gonna tell you they want to stay at home, ucla has their nursing major, etc, they are never gonna tell you that they aren't going to play back up to brittney

that's why hind was a great addition to the bears...coming from europe she had not watched boyd on tv & in person a bunch of times...she will be a good pg with experience (she can really shoot) but its likely that lindsey will sign an elite pg for 2015 who will start then

the curse of having an all american in any sport is that no elite hs kid playing the same position is gonna want to sit on the bench & wait their turn

I understand the reasoning with Boyd and PG playing time,,, but what about schools like UConn and Duke and Stanford etc who don't have any problem with continuously getting top/highly ranked recruits (Stanford also getting Ogumike and Samuelson clans) ???

According to a bruin fan on their forum we are "bashing" Ms. Simon. Geeze, if this is considered bashing, he or she should look at the football forum:rollinglaugh:

Cal is not yet at the level of UConn, which is virtually guaranteed to be in the Final Four year in and year out. When that time comes kids won't worry about paying their dues, but now they do.

Everything said about point guards not wanting to play behind Brittany B also pertains to posts looking at Gennifer and Reshanda (as well as Justine and Kyra). I'm not at all surprised we got two top wings.

For those reasons I expect 2015 to be a banner year for points and posts, if we continue looking like an elite team this season.

From another thread:

3Cats4CAL;842222530 said:

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How come Boyle was able to recruit a big monster class ???

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The year they arrived we had three seniors (Alexis, Lauren, and Natasha), one junior (Mooch), and zero sophs, including zero bigs. Guaranteed playing time.

CalFanatic;842222553 said:

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According to a bruin fan on their forum we are "bashing" Ms. Simon. Geeze, if this is considered bashing, he or she should look at the football forum:rollinglaugh:

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Or search our men's basketball board for Garret Sim and De'End Parker, or more recently Marcus Lee. All of us were sore about Lee choosing Kentucky.

Shocky1;842222500 said:

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gocal, i agree with many of your pts particularly with respects to the bigs recruiting

but you way off re: pg recruiting...there is not a single elite pg in the united states & its territories that would come to cal in the 2013 & 2014 classes knowing that all american brittney boyd is leading the bears until the minute she graduates

cal never really had a chance at canada for that reason...and when hs kids give you their collegiate choice reasoning, they are gonna tell you they want to stay at home, ucla has their nursing major, etc, they are never gonna tell you that they aren't going to play back up to brittney

that's why hind was a great addition to the bears...coming from europe she had not watched boyd on tv & in person a bunch of times...she will be a good pg with experience (she can really shoot) but its likely that lindsey will sign an elite pg for 2015 who will start then

the curse of having an all american in any sport is that no elite hs kid playing the same position is gonna want to sit on the bench & wait their turn

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Shocky, I totally respect your insight on MBB. However, Canada was much closer to being a Bear than you think. Her reason for not coming to Cal had nothing to do with Boyd. Those who hang out over here know I have that from the best possible source. This is not my opinion. Regardless, we must now get an elite PG in the 2015 class. I like Hind but I'm not ready to count on her as our FinalFour starting PG.

GOCAL73;842222603 said:

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Shocky, I totally respect your insight on MBB. However, Canada was much closer to being a Bear than you think. Her reason for not coming to Cal had nothing to do with Boyd. Those who hang out over here know I have that from the best possible source. This is not my opinion. Regardless, we must now get an elite PG in the 2015 class. I like Hind but I'm not ready to count on her as our FinalFour starting PG.

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ok, what were canada's factors? the staying close to home, the nursing major, etc?

has an elite recruit in any sport ever said publicly that they don't want to sit on the bench behind an all American?

Shocky1;842222609 said:

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ok, what were canada's factors? the staying close to home, the nursing major, etc?

has an elite recruit in any sport ever said publicly that they don't want to sit on the bench behind an all American?

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I actually think we already have our point guards for the next period of time. Green is playing an outstanding point game for St. Mary's. She is really fast, and can shoot over and prevent shots by any PG. And Jefflo is already playing some point and will get better. Both can shoot from the field and from the line as well as dish and defend. They will both be combo guards who complement each other. Hind will be a back-up PG for these two, and a very good one.

One more point to note: There are only 2 players in the ESPN Top 60 for 2015 who are from the West Coast and who are over 6'3". We just got one of them.

I guess I am in the minority. But I am really celebrating the three players we just obtained, and view this a huge step on the future journey toward being a top program. We have only one Final Four in our entire history, and are now recruiting players who can take us back to another.

annarborbear;842222635 said:

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I guess I am in the minority. But I am really celebrating the three players we just obtained

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Well, you're in a minority of at least two -- I'm thrilled

Quote:

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There are only 2 players in the ESPN Top 60 for 2015 who are from the West Coast

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That's tough for other West Coast teams, but I'm expecting us to recruit successfully beyond our region now.

Concern and second guessing a coach/staff that just took the team to the Final 4?
Plenty of room for you on the football board. For my money, you get a hoop team to the magical land, you get a pass. I like that I can kind of sit back and see how it all shakes down.
I'm not against discussion, its all part of the deal on the BI boards. But, if there is any place to be wearing Blue and Gold glasses, and drinking the Oski kool-aid, its here.
Can we now blast McKeever for not getting the number 1 swimming recruiting class?

Really elite players don't worry about playing behind anybody because they expect to be better than the incumbent from day one. On the men's side, Kentucky goes after the very best and they are not intimidated from competing for time. At Cal, the same can be seen in water polo and swimming.

It was no surprise on the club circuit that the westies stayed home in 2014. In fact they all would have preferred it but there were too many at similar positions. I do t buy that this means certain programs will continue to get recruits because of this class, a lot more is involved that most of us would not know about. But my general feeling from the club vibe is that Stanford in particular may not get as much as they used to.

If you listen carefully to what Kristen says in her interview, she telegraphs exactly why she chose USC. She wanted to sign with Cal (hence the lovely words she had to say about Lindsay and the Cal family, she had no similar praise for USC). Her parents on the other hand felt strongly about her staying close to home. Unfortunately, it looks like Kristen fell victim to an antiquated rule that requires a parent sign the LOI if you are under 21 years of age. Her parents refused to sign an LOI that said Cal and it appears Kristen simply got tired of fighting about it. Reading between the lines, her twitter also appears to telegraph the struggle that was taking place leading up to signing day. Sad story and a big loss for Cal. Kristen may be slightly undersized, but has some of the best footwork I've ever seen on a post player. The rule should really be changed so that kids can sign on their own once they've reached 18. . . Obviously, parents should play a major role in any kids decision making process, but they shouldn't have total veto power. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you're old enough to choose what college you'd like to attend!

Wow! I suppose one could always forego the LOI and enroll in the fall ...

bearfan02;842226128 said:

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If you listen carefully to what Kristen says in her interview, she telegraphs exactly why she chose USC. She wanted to sign with Cal (hence the lovely words she had to say about Lindsay and the Cal family, she had no similar praise for USC). Her parents on the other hand felt strongly about her staying close to home. Unfortunately, it looks like Kristen fell victim to an antiquated rule that requires a parent sign the LOI if you are under 21 years of age. Her parents refused to sign an LOI that said Cal and it appears Kristen simply got tired of fighting about it. Reading between the lines, her twitter also appears to telegraph the struggle that was taking place leading up to signing day. Sad story and a big loss for Cal. Kristen may be slightly undersized, but has some of the best footwork I've ever seen on a post player. The rule should really be changed so that kids can sign on their own once they've reached 18. . . Obviously, parents should play a major role in any kids decision making process, but they shouldn't have total veto power. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you're old enough to choose what college you'd like to attend!

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Pretty much same story with Canada. Don't get parents who dictate where their kids go to school, assuming finances are not an issue. Seems incredibly selfish and shortsighted.

bearfan02;842226128 said:

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If you listen carefully to what Kristen says in her interview, she telegraphs exactly why she chose USC. She wanted to sign with Cal (hence the lovely words she had to say about Lindsay and the Cal family, she had no similar praise for USC). Her parents on the other hand felt strongly about her staying close to home. Unfortunately, it looks like Kristen fell victim to an antiquated rule that requires a parent sign the LOI if you are under 21 years of age. Her parents refused to sign an LOI that said Cal and it appears Kristen simply got tired of fighting about it. Reading between the lines, her twitter also appears to telegraph the struggle that was taking place leading up to signing day. Sad story and a big loss for Cal. Kristen may be slightly undersized, but has some of the best footwork I've ever seen on a post player. The rule should really be changed so that kids can sign on their own once they've reached 18. . . Obviously, parents should play a major role in any kids decision making process, but they shouldn't have total veto power. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you're old enough to choose what college you'd like to attend!

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Wow! When I read this I couldn't believe it so I went and looked it up one the NCAA site. It's true. I'm not even sure if this is legal, but an 18 year old would have to break with her family and sue to overturn it. So far none has. And it's too bad it hasn't happened. Because no one has, the rule will stand until one student-athlete feels strongly enough to break with family and free 18 year old student athletes in the future.

I hope this all works out for Ms. Simon, but the chances are that there will be unhappiness in the family, discontent on the team and trouble down the line for all involved. I would hope and expect that Cal would NEVER put itself in the position of Cynthia Cooper and the USC athletic department in a travesty like this. Oddly enough, it appears that after a student fulfills the NLI by attending the university they signed with, they are a free agent at 19.

Having parents who exercise this kind of control is a recipe for disaster and 500 miles is not far enough for the staff to avoid detrimental parental interference with a program. Though the rule is real, I hope the disagreement was mild and not a veto of the student's wishes. For everyone concerned, I wish the best. But LG&Co. may have dodged a bullet if it went down the way Bearfan02 surmises.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/nli/nli/frequently+asked+questions/index.html

Go to Signing the NLI after clicking on FAQ's and look under Parent or Legal Guardian's Signature. I'm just appalled.