With the recent news Bre is transferring to Rutgers (huge bummer) and the Sabrina sweepstakes still up in the air, I thought it was important to discuss depth next year and where Cal might look for transfers.

Cal is INSANELY strong in the post. I'm just not seeing a better post tandem (hands down FOY Anigwe and a healthy CJ West with both shoulders working next year) anywhere else. Chen will improve and add good depth. KC is looking stronger. We are strong on the wing... but... who are we looking at to add depth to the guard positions? If we had Jefflo and Canavaugh this season we might be 6-0. We need guards to help Asha and Gabby out. Ideas if we don't land Sabrina?

Future Depth Chart

Fr: Center CJ West 6'4
Fr. Wing Jaelyn Brown 6'1

So. PF/ Center Kristine Anigwe 6'4
So. PG Asha Thomas 5'4
So. W Ma'Ane Mosely 5'11
So. C Chen Yue 6'7

Jr. W Mikayla Cowling 6'1
Jr. W/4 Penina Davidson 6'3
Jr. G 6'2 Gabby Green 6'2

SR. W Courtney Range 6'3
Sr. PF KC Waters 6'1

I would go for the best US Frosh guard still out there or a European-Australian-or Canadian. AND a top Community College PG coming into our Junior class for balance. Sabrina could alleviate all this though.

longseeker;842616374 said:

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I would go for the best US Frosh guard still out there or a European-Australian-or Canadian. AND a top Community College PG coming into our Junior class for balance. Sabrina could alleviate all this though.

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So far we have confirmation Cal has offered 2017 G Kianna Smith but for this year it seems to be Sabrina or bust, pending any transfers

Side note- I just happened to look at ESPN 2016 rankings do you know Sabrina is the only one in at least the Top 20 that shows undeclared?! Wow!

We need shooters...a 3 point jugger knot!

We are running out of time, but I have been hoping for a mid-year transfer who might be eligible by mid-Winter next year. The way we acquired Brittany Shine. Doesn't have to be a superstar, but would need to be an acceptable back-up guard.

So whose opinion/advice does everyone believe regarding whether Sabrina chooses CAL? Clay or Moragabear?

3Cats4CAL;842618651 said:

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So whose opinion/advice does everyone believe regarding whether Sabrina chooses CAL? Clay or Moragabear?

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I am in the pessimist camp. I think for a local kid to want to come to Cal, you need at least a couple of the following factors:

1. You really value a Cal degree, including the future contacts it would provide if you want to reside in the Bay Area longer-term.
2. You bleed some Blue and Gold already having been around the university most of your life.
3. You figure you will probably eventually play a lot in some other city or overseas any way, so why not hang near your family for a few more years.
4. You really like the coaches, the style of play, and the players.

If you do fall into most of those categories, I don't see why you would drag things out any longer this way.

annarborbear;842618661 said:

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I am in the pessimist camp. I think for a local kid to want to come to Cal, you need at least a couple of the following factors:

1. You really value a Cal degree, including the future contacts it would provide if you want to reside in the Bay Area longer-term.
2. You bleed some Blue and Gold already having been around the university most of your life.
3. You figure you will probably eventually play a lot in some other city or overseas any way, so why not hang near your family for a few more years.
4. You really like the coaches, the style of play, and the players.

If you do fall into most of those categories, I don't see why you would drag things out any longer this way.

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I understand your points but if flip yourself back to a year ago, then you would have been pessimistic about Ivan Rabb coming to Cal too.
Its hard to know the mind of a 17/18 year old. The other thing to remember is that most of her peers are not making up their minds until April. For all any of us know, she is waiting to hear where her boyfriend is accepted, and will then make a decision accordingly. Or, more on the basketball theme, how the season plays out for her friend K. Anigwe, and what feedback she gets from her.....

I think Sabrina is out, that is why she opted to wait. So she could play her Senior year with peace of mind while playing in Cal's backyard. As a parent that is basketball savvy it would be tough to send your kid to play for LG if you value discipline. The word coming back from WNBA people is that Cal has talent but their players lack discipline. If you talk to coaches at the Mid Major level and team's that game plan against Cal, they feel they have an opportunity because of Cal's lack of discipline and game strategy. That filters back to AAU coaches and players that have played for those teams. Players talk to each other about environment good and bad. The culture is probably not quite suitable for a basketball player who wants to maximize their ability especially if they are not an elite athlete. Great players want to be able to respect their coach and have their coach hold them accountable even when it is tough discipline. They don't necessarily want to be friends. Young people don't necessarily liked to push but they respect those who really elevate their game. It's nice to see players get great stats but if they are not good teammates then a coach shouldn't allow themselves to be held hostage to performance. As a young coach I think LG will learn as players push the limit and they either compromise the team or they have to be forced to transfer. As a coach you really have to understand how to coach players you recruit especially when recruiting so many players from diverse environments. Growing young people should be the primary goal. I think a lot of people from outside question this with Cal. It is probably one of the key recruiting points that others use. Texas, Baylor, Oregon State, Stanford probably have a bit of advantage when recruiting players from a well-rounded background. I kind of noticed the differences with recent players that committed to those schools that had Cal on their list. Not to say that Cal can't improve perception or the perception is accurate. I think that if you watch Cal during warmups or pre-game it seems a bit loose in comparison to most solid teams. Details that other coaches and astute players notice throughout the totality of a game don't necessarily provide confidence that Cal strives to be sound in all aspects of the game. Texas A&M and SM both were physically tough teams and brought toughness to the game instilled by their coaches. I always compare approach of the game to the best like Gino A. If that is the bar how far from the Bar are you? It is not a secret why he dominates WBB, his teams are sound and they are tough. How do you instill that in your Team? I think most Parents who are involved with their Kid's recruitment look at he academic side and start with that Bar and work themselves down from that. How far down the totem is Cal from that and all things being equal what matters most? There is a lot of room for growth and this season might be a chance to make ground.

Grainger2874;842618757 said:

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I think Sabrina is out, that is why she opted to wait. So she could play her Senior year with peace of mind while playing in Cal's backyard. As a parent that is basketball savvy it would be tough to send your kid to play for LG if you value discipline. The word coming back from WNBA people is that Cal has talent but their players lack discipline. If you talk to coaches at the Mid Major level and team's that game plan against Cal, they feel they have an opportunity because of Cal's lack of discipline and game strategy. That filters back to AAU coaches and players that have played for those teams. Players talk to each other about environment good and bad. The culture is probably not quite suitable for a basketball player who wants to maximize their ability especially if they are not an elite athlete. Great players want to be able to respect their coach and have their coach hold them accountable even when it is tough discipline. They don't necessarily want to be friends. Young people don't necessarily liked to push but they respect those who really elevate their game. It's nice to see players get great stats but if they are not good teammates then a coach shouldn't allow themselves to be held hostage to performance. As a young coach I think LG will learn as players push the limit and they either compromise the team or they have to be forced to transfer. As a coach you really have to understand how to coach players you recruit especially when recruiting so many players from diverse environments. Growing young people should be the primary goal. I think a lot of people from outside question this with Cal. It is probably one of the key recruiting points that others use. Texas, Baylor, Oregon State, Stanford probably have a bit of advantage when recruiting players from a well-rounded background. I kind of noticed the differences with recent players that committed to those schools that had Cal on their list. Not to say that Cal can't improve perception or the perception is accurate. I think that if you watch Cal during warmups or pre-game it seems a bit loose in comparison to most solid teams. Details that other coaches and astute players notice throughout the totality of a game don't necessarily provide confidence that Cal strives to be sound in all aspects of the game. Texas A&M and SM both were physically tough teams and brought toughness to the game instilled by their coaches. I always compare approach of the game to the best like Gino A. If that is the bar how far from the Bar are you? It is not a secret why he dominates WBB, his teams are sound and they are tough. How do you instill that in your Team? I think most Parents who are involved with their Kid's recruitment look at he academic side and start with that Bar and work themselves down from that. How far down the totem is Cal from that and all things being equal what matters most? There is a lot of room for growth and this season might be a chance to make ground.

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Wow - posts on here about recruiting often involve loose arguments based on speculation (given that there is typically such little info out about wbb recruiting)... but you go on so long, you even contradict yourself!

I'm confused: most parents start with a focus on the academic side but are then going to choose schools like Oregon or Oregon State over Cal because their coaches have done such a better job teaching 'discipline,' and that (even with the academics not really being equal) is what matters most?' How many grads of those programs has discipline gotten to the WNBA recently?

really;842619044 said:

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Wow - posts on here about recruiting often involve loose arguments based on speculation (given that there is typically such little info out about wbb recruiting)... but you go on so long, you even contradict yourself!

I'm confused: most parents start with a focus on the academic side but are then going to choose schools like Oregon or Oregon State over Cal because their coaches have done such a better job teaching 'discipline,' and that (even with the academics not really being equal) is what matters most?' How many grads of those programs has discipline gotten to the WNBA recently?

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Good points. I would think for many players and parents, the fact that we have produced three recent WNBA first round draft picks, none of whom was projected as such out of high school, and all of whom grew up as people, graduated, and became responsible, high-functioning young adults while here under our coaches, would be a big positive.

By the way, Weisner shot 6-23 and Wiese had zero assists in a loss tonight to Tennessee. So the disciplined approach of the OSU coach may not be the answer to everything.

The point is not if they are wnba players, but are they sound players once they get there.
Also, it is creating a perception as a recruiting tool against CAL.

Grainger2874;842619186 said:

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The point is not if they are wnba players, but are they sound players once they get there.
Also, it is creating a perception as a recruiting tool against CAL.

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I totally don't understand what your getting at. Is this your own perception because I have not seen anything out there relating to your points. Evidence?

Just thoughts and arguments that might be used for not choosing Cal.
and also playing devils advocate in trying to understand why a recruit would choose Cal specifically
looking at the culture and environment that has been established thus far
during the LG.
The only coach I use as a standard is Gino Auriema.
I was just asking how far down the rung is LG.
Is Cal an elite school?
If not and they have Five star players then why not.
If Gino had the same players would they play much different?
What would be the difference? Would it be style, experience(skill)?
Does being able to coach and manage less than 10 players place a
cap on how effective a coach can be?
Just thoughts...Nothing to think too hard about or Combat.
When you watch The standard bearer for the sport play (UConn) and listen
to the interviews to me there is a huge gap between not just Cal
but other schools.
I try and get a gauge for how Cal would compete against the top five.
If you are recruit why Cal over a top 5 or 10 school?

I remember out team making it all the way to the Final Four a few years ago. All the players on that team seemed to understand and to do what was asked of them to fit together as a team. IMHO that's discipline and good coaching. Also IMHO coaches relating well to players on a personal level does not preclude teamwork and discipline.

I also believe reaching the level of our Final Four team takes some time. That team was heavy with seniors who had been key players for the previous 3 years, and there were no freshies to acclimate. Someone looking at our team from a distance might think we could be more disciplined, but should consider that out top 7 together have just 4 years of college experience.

I can understand the "undisciplined" comment when Boyd is used as the example. Non-the-less, she entered Cal as a good, but not great, high school player, and left as a number one choice. Plus, she graduated on-time from a top-tier university. And who aside from Boyd has been an "undisciplined" player? Layshia Clarendon? Give us a break.

And Gino won one of his recent championships playing six people. So having a lot of people on the roster may be frustrating occasionally, but how is numbers of the roster a significant measure of a coach? If you like transfers rather than graduating your people, by all means load up.

Geno has had his transfers. Namely Della donna. Transferred to Delaware. also, the number one player last year in high school just transferred from conn the 2nd semester.

My perception.

All Fair points.
You guys are correct.
Time will tell.
There are exceptions to the rule.

The problem with not being able to manage depth?
Coaching skill??
It Can have a huge impact on the process of team building and recruiting.
With the loss of Jefflo and Bre and the lack of trust in KC the opportunity
to maximize the year is put in jeopardy.
KC has shown the ability on the court to play, why is there such lack of trust
in a player that has been in the program so long?

Grainger2874;842619245 said:

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The problem with not being able to manage depth?
Coaching skill??
It Can have a huge impact on the process of team building and recruiting.
With the loss of Jefflo and Bre and the lack of trust in KC the opportunity
to maximize the year is put in jeopardy.
KC has shown the ability on the court to play, why is there such lack of trust
in a player that has been in the program so long?

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We actually had good guard depth - five deep - before the two unexpected departures. When you are talking about using your number six and seventh players, if you have them, at the very best, you are probably looking at a local kid willing to sit on the bench just in case like Brittany Shine. Nice to have, and I would certainly like more local players who would get a chance for a degree. But it would not be someone who is going to win you a championship. In our Final Four year, we went eight deep in the rotation during the season, and then shortened it to seven during the tournament. No injuries that year, or we would have been home watching on TV. There are plenty of things on which to critique LG. But expecting her to have excellent 6th and 7th guards in place, just in case we need them, doesn't seem realistic.

In regard to KC, I do remain mystified. I have heard some things about her not fitting into the system. But she seems to do ok when they put her on the court. And we could definitely use some muscle on our front line this year.

In contrast, OSU has a bigger roster. But their coach seems to trust only six players who get almost all of the minutes, especially in big games.

Grainger2874;842619197 said:

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Just thoughts and arguments that might be used for not choosing Cal.
and also playing devils advocate in trying to understand why a recruit would choose Cal specifically
looking at the culture and environment that has been established thus far
during the LG.
The only coach I use as a standard is Gino Auriema.
I was just asking how far down the rung is LG.
Is Cal an elite school?
If not and they have Five star players then why not.
If Gino had the same players would they play much different?
What would be the difference? Would it be style, experience(skill)?
Does being able to coach and manage less than 10 players place a
cap on how effective a coach can be?
Just thoughts...Nothing to think too hard about or Combat.
When you watch The standard bearer for the sport play (UConn) and listen
to the interviews to me there is a huge gap between not just Cal
but other schools.
I try and get a gauge for how Cal would compete against the top five.
If you are recruit why Cal over a top 5 or 10 school?

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Ah -- so you were just imagining alternate recruiting theories (other than the hundred or so previously considered on this board) why recruits might not choose Cal, without thinking too hard about it?

And you didn't actually survey all the mid-major and aau coaches and WNBA 'people' cited in your opinion?... This comes as a great relief for Cal fans still holding out slim hopes in the Sabrina sweepstakes; though for purposes of future understandability, your posts could use a little more discipline.

Grainger2874;842619186 said:

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The point is not if they are wnba players, but are they sound players once they get there.
Also, it is creating a perception as a recruiting tool against CAL.

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Also used as recruiting tool throughout wbb history:

"that team has too many good players, there's not enough playing time"
"they've already won -- you can't be the one to put them on the map"
"they're a Nike school/they're not a Nike school"
"they're intolerant/will turn your daughter lesbian"

...just sayin'

Grainger2874;842619245 said:

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The problem with not being able to manage depth?
Coaching skill??
It Can have a huge impact on the process of team building and recruiting.
With the loss of Jefflo and Bre and the lack of trust in KC the opportunity
to maximize the year is put in jeopardy.
KC has shown the ability on the court to play, why is there such lack of trust
in a player that has been in the program so long?

---

Using Geno Auriemma as your sole standard is overly simplistic, and if you think the top reasons he's dominated wbb recently are because he gets his teams to play sound and tough, you're waaaaayyy off.

Maybe you should ask how 'sound' his players were before he got them -- pretty sure at least Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson and Nurse were far sounder than any Cal recruit in the LG era. Then because they've stockpiled so much creme-de-la-creme talent (not just 5 star; there's a big difference), Geno has the luxury of sitting a Stewart or KLS if he thinks it might help, and still be virtually assured of reaching the final 4. And of course, having all that talent and the championship resume further allows UConn to get the best recruits without having to take as many risks on players that may not fit their system or style. ....Do you think if the programs' records and rosters were flipped, Breanna Stewart would have chosen to chase 4 championships at UConn over Cal just because she thought Geno would hold her more accountable??

Also, why does Geno have such a lack of trust in Saniya Chong, the 8th player on his depth chart (like KC, also 8th)? She's only playing a few more mpg than KC, even though UConn's avg victory margin is >40pts. For that matter, we never really saw a lot of trust (or offensive development) in Kiah Stokes either, who has a lot more talent than KC -- at least judging by her wnba ROY runner-up season.

To compare any school or coach to UConn and Geno simply isn't fair ... Geno's recruiting pitch to Katie Lou Samuelson (or anyone else he wants): "We'd love to have you come, but even if you don't, we're still winning championships."

No one else can say that. No one else has the same alumnae presence in the WNBA or on the National Team.

As Bill Walsh, the great 49er coach said, the first thing you have to do is win your league. Once you can do that, then worry about postseason. For Cal, that means Lindsey is competing against Cori Close and Kelly Graves and Charli Turner-Thorne -- that's the competition.

So let's take Sabrina as an example, then. If she were to go to UConn, that says little about LG or Cal. Same with Duke or Tennessee or Baylor. But if she goes to Oregon or Oregon State, then that's an issue -- and it seems those are her other two choices. At that point, she has to look hard at her program and the message she and her players send to potential recruits.

Obviously, you can't win them all, and obviously, there's more to recruiting than Sabrina Ionescu. Getting Anigwe is huge, because ASU would have loved to have her too. Getting players from LA is big too, but as I've mentioned, sometimes kids don't want to go to college close to home, and that's out of any coach's control.

Right now, the Cal recruiters should, and most likely are, focus on getting quality talent from the Pac-12 area to choose Cal over its conference rivals. They'll win some and lose some, but over time, the pattern will reveal itself.

really;842619418 said:

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Using Geno Auriemma as your sole standard is overly simplistic, and if you think the top reasons he's dominated wbb recently are because he gets his teams to play sound and tough, you're waaaaayyy off.

Maybe you should ask how 'sound' his players were before he got them -- pretty sure at least Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson and Nurse were far sounder than any Cal recruit in the LG era. Then because they've stockpiled so much creme-de-la-creme talent (not just 5 star; there's a big difference), Geno has the luxury of sitting a Stewart or KLS if he thinks it might help, and still be virtually assured of reaching the final 4. And of course, having all that talent and the championship resume further allows UConn to get the best recruits without having to take as many risks on players that may not fit their system or style. ....Do you think if the programs' records and rosters were flipped, Breanna Stewart would have chosen to chase 4 championships at UConn over Cal just because she thought Geno would hold her more accountable??

Also, why does Geno have such a lack of trust in Saniya Chong, the 8th player on his depth chart (like KC, also 8th)? She's only playing a few more mpg than KC, even though UConn's avg victory margin is >40pts. For that matter, we never really saw a lot of trust (or offensive development) in Kiah Stokes either, who has a lot more talent than KC -- at least judging by her wnba ROY runner-up season.

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The short synopsis of what your saying might be possibly like this. The best recruits knock on his door at times before he knocks on theirs? Therefore he has solid choices to choose from to start.

"So let's take Sabrina as an example, then. If she were to go to UConn, that says little about LG or Cal. Same with Duke or Tennessee or Baylor. But if she goes to Oregon or Oregon State, then that's an issue -- and it seems those are her other two choices. At that point, she has to look hard at her program and the message she and her players send to potential recruits."

So Clay, in your opinion what message does Lindsay and her players send to potential recruits? Losing a high-end local recruit like Sabrina will really sting. Plus, we really need her at Cal. Other than being in love with the sate of Oregon, I'd really appreciate some insight on why Sabrina is having a hard time committing to the local school that has been to the Final Four recently and could very well get there again with her help. What image is Cal projecting on the recruiting trail?

GOCAL73;842619479 said:

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"So let's take Sabrina as an example, then. If she were to go to UConn, that says little about LG or Cal. Same with Duke or Tennessee or Baylor. But if she goes to Oregon or Oregon State, then that's an issue -- and it seems those are her other two choices. At that point, she has to look hard at her program and the message she and her players send to potential recruits."

So Clay, in your opinion what message does Lindsay and her players send to potential recruits? Losing a high-end local recruit like Sabrina will really sting. Plus, we really need her at Cal. Other than being in love with the sate of Oregon, I'd really appreciate some insight on why Sabrina is having a hard time committing to the local school that has been to the Final Four recently and could very well get their again with her help. What image is Cal projecting on the recruiting trail?

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I would like to know too. How common is it to lose a local recruit and how many other sites are saying the same thing? It would be interesting to take the top ten recruits from prospect nation and chart out the distance that recruit is from home verses the nearest upper tier schools in their area. It would take some doing but would be an interesting project.

I think the approach to take is to not look at what message LG is sending to recruits but rather what are the recruits seeing from other schools. I don't imply others are doing something dirty or tricky but what is the comparison during visits. As I mentioned in another post there was video by another (recruit?) showing an official Oregon official visit. What caught me on this is immediately recognizing Sabrina in three shots from what I can see.

What they did was combine all the official visits into one weekend. Now this video of course is heavy on Oregon arrogance (your gag reflex will kick in, ughh!) but it shows what Sabrina experienced from what I call the dark side of the force.
Here is the you tube link if I can link correctly:
[video=youtube;zCPkkB7b8uU][/video]

GOLDEN;842619510 said:

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I would like to know too. How common is it to lose a local recruit and how many other sites are saying the same thing? It would be interesting to take the top ten recruits from prospect nation and chart out the distance that recruit is from home verses the nearest upper tier schools in their area. It would take some doing but would be an interesting project.

I think the approach to take is to not look at what message LG is sending to recruits but rather what are the recruits seeing from other schools. I don't imply others are doing something dirty or tricky but what is the comparison during visits. As I mentioned in another post there was video by another (recruit?) showing an official Oregon official visit. What caught me on this is immediately recognizing Sabrina in three shots from what I can see.

What they did was combine all the official visits into one weekend. Now this video of course is heavy on Oregon arrogance (your gag reflex will kick in, ughh!) but it shows what Sabrina experienced from what I call the dark side of the force.
Here is the you tube link if I can link correctly:
[video=youtube;zCPkkB7b8uU][/video]

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The obviously cheated. They brought her in on a rare day the sun was shining.

Found! The Affluenza kid that violated his probation.

orindabear74;842619577 said:

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Found! The Affluenza kid that violated his probation.

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one of many affluenza kid YTs..
[video=youtube;KpdoERohqbo][/video]

Kristine Anigwe did not go to Arizona or Arizona State. Reshanda Gray did not go to UCLA or USC.

As has been mentioned too many times, some kids don't want to stay close to home. Some kids do. That's out of the recruiters' control.

So if Sabrina goes to Oregon State, say, that may or may not say anything about Cal's recruiting. It does, however, help Oregon State and hurt Cal a lot more than if she went to Nebraska, say.

Watching that Oregon video there, it looks like a wildly different place. With the country music soundtrack and that rural looking setting, compared to Cal in the Bay area that might as well be a different planet. If someone is into that, they aren't going to be into Cal and vice verse. It just looks so culturally different. I think about the places I would have chosen if Cal hadn't worked out and none of those options were anywhere in Rural, Square State. That sounds like hell to me. Hopefully that sounds like hell to Sabrina too.

Former St.Mary's star/#46 espn ranked G Brijanee Moore is averaging 14 PPG in her Freshman year at Central Arizona. Was her issues.... academic? Would be someone to keep your eyes on as potential transfer if she gets everything sorted out.

Definitely academic. And maybe some other things.