Something not right with the state of this program

9,262 Views | 50 Replies | Last: 15 yr ago by ckgruffbear
wifeisafurd
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annarborbear;494683 said:

I am a little confused on what knowledgeable people would really recommend at this point:

1. More players who might have a better shot at making an all academic team? Sounds like a great idea if they are available and we can attract them. I would never want to recruit anyone who is clearly not capable of getting nor highly motivated of obtaining a Cal degree. Winning is never worth wasting valuable academic space and opportunities.

2. Players who might be more coachable but perhaps less talented, at least on paper? Certainly takes a lot of work and perhaps luck to make the right decisions on personnel with that approach, but some coaches do it well.

3. Players who have already played in a structured system similar to Joanne's and who would respond better to her coaching style and personality, along with fewer players who would not fit this style? Again, you would have to recruit more carefully to your particular system, or change the system.

4. Some better shooters? Yes, please.

5. Fewer injury-prone players? If you can somehow be certain on that.

6. More natural leaders? All successfull teams do have players who are willing to take charge and make the overall team play better.

7. Some taller players? There really is quite a bit of parity in the women's game on the frontlines, with so many players of about the same size.

8. A different coach or system at this point? Do players leave or play poorly because they are feeling too many negative vibes? Is Joanne not capable of recruiting a team that does fit together as a group?

I look at this downyear as primarily due to injuries and with a pretty big mismatch of some player skills at some positions. We do have to get some shooters or coach some of these players up in that area, and we also need some people to develop a midrange game. Also, we were lacking a take-charge player and a real distributor at point guard, who must also shoot well enough to keep defenses honest. (Eliza, I still think you can develop into that player.)

Or do the departures and late season collapse instead mean that we really are going to have to just start over?


More role players, more players likely to matriculate w/o problems, smarter players, players with charector, players that fit Cal more, and yes, more coachable players. I actually think this next class has more of these elements. The problem is not with Boyd, she knows how to coach, and she has a strong staff. Gettign a lot of AAs is not always the cure-all. People look at the talent and just assume the team should automatically win. When the UCLA radio guy keeps going on that you have better talent than any other team in the conference as his team is up by twenty plus...
wifeisafurd
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drunkoski;494643 said:

tedford recruits players with questionable academics as well. obviously on a smaller team things are magnified, but it's a question of how we motivate them when they get here rather than turning down talented and maybe academically challenged applicants.


yes, he has one or two academic "stretches" each year - in a class of 20 or more. And the recruit better bring something else to the table, like overcoming a bad family situation, etc. He will not recruit guys that are not a fit, have bad charector, etc. At least not that he can ascertain. So no Price, no matter how much he wanted to play for Cal or how well he ended-up playing for UCLA. JT doesn't always get it perfect, but look at how small footballs attrition is versus WBB.
Schroeder71
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I was simply listing the sensational seven recruit class & giving current status to show attrition. Three or four remain of six top caliber recruits, then. If you really read my comments, I stated that Tierra Rogers would have been a non-stop hustle type of player. I guess that you could compliment the headcoach for recruiting her.
GO BEARS!
E_CULB
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wifeisafurd;494919 said:

Gettign a lot of AAs is not always the cure-all. People look at the talent and just assume the team should automatically win. When the UCLA radio guy keeps going on that you have better talent than any other team in the conference as his team is up by twenty plus...


I think this is really key. Look at Tennesse and UCONN ( I know the creme right) But Summitt has like 12 top 100 players and hasnt been to the FF in what 3 years where as Geno goes out and gets the players that "Fit" his system. (and granted they are still top 100) But everyone is not like from the top25 list.
wifeisafurd
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Boyle does have a style of play. Tough defense, defense number 1, movement defenses, fast break off defense, and slow it down and in and out on offense (which worked with AGL). Now you recruit that style. If your players don't want to play that style of defense, you have a problem in your recruiting. If you don't have shooters for your in and out offense, you have a recruiting problem. If you don't have kids who matriculate, for academic or fit reasons, you have a recruting program. If you never have a bench because of transfers, you have a recruiting problem.

From everything I have seen, Boyle knows what she is doing in terms of the x's and o's, and trying to teach life lessons to kids who are not always from the most privledged backgrounds. And her staff is very proven. Hoover and Smith have major pedigrees, and are considered top assistants. Morrison is extremely popular with players. If you don't have kids that are buying what you are selling, you have a recruiting problem. Now everything isn't all about recruiting, but its a starting point.

Other comment: all is not lost. Claredon is going to be an excellent player, Stallworth is being repalced by a very good looking frosh, the next class looks promising, Sherbert seems like a good fit (watch her be a transfer and I look stupid), and Bradon and Caldwell seem to match-up to Boyle's style. Caldwell has the type of academic pedigree which should work well with Cal (again, I look stupid if she transfers). If Pierre could improve her shot, she also is a good match for Boyle's system. Her defense is excellent.

As to our posters: seems to me everyone wants WBB to succeed and is frustrated by the lack of progress. I really don't see anyone trying to be overly negative, but just voicing concerns as to why the program has underachieved recently, despite good coaching and talent.
wifeisafurd
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BearBint;494430 said:

It may be a rant, but it's an intelligent rant, and I appreciate the lack of finger-pointing and rumor-mongering. Thanks!

P.S. I've always wondered what your wife thinks of your nom de board, if anything. (Is hers "spouseofabear"?)


Is "hubbybear" She just uses her name, and is amused by the entire Bear Insider (and related sports sites) phenom. Tahoe and I often refer to our wives as BI widows.
wifeisafurd
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GldnBear71;494814 said:

There were several games this year when some of the players did not seem to be playing with very much intensity. This was particularly noticeable in a few of the games after the close loss to Arizona State. I don't think a coach has complete control of the team when some of the players are "phoning it in".

I'm willing to concede, however, that a coach may have limited options to use substitution as a motivating factor if the bench is short and/or there is a significant drop-off in talent.

Assuming there are no more departures we should have a deep enough bench next season that additional substitutions can be used as motivation. We'll see.


Very on point IMO. Also, very succiently said.
OBear073akaSMFan
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+1 very good post without slamming the head coach, coaches, and players!
BearBint
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WayneBear;494838 said:

...Again I didn't see that game or the subsequent tailspin as a lack of effort, but more like a team that had suddenly lost its confidence.

We may be saying the same thing in different ways, but I just don't want casual fans to compare the past season to other situations where a coach truly has lost control and suffered a player revolt or mental walkout. Our breakdown was a lot more subtle than that.


WayneBear, I find your take very plausible. I've seen lack of confidence work this way with this age group in other situations. (I've also seen sudden spurts of confidence produce seeming miracles.) I hope that with more experience, Joanne and her staff and players will learn how to deal with these fluctuations.
BearBint
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wifeisafurd;494973 said:

Is "hubbybear" She just uses her name, and is amused by the entire Bear Insider (and related sports sites) phenom. Tahoe and I often refer to our wives as BI widows.


Ah, yes--BearBloke is familiar with that syndrome. He has been a devoted Cal WBB fan for at least 14 years, but his eyes do glaze over a bit when I report the latest B.I. or Swish Appeal communiques.
GldnBear71
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Naw, S71, I know what you're saying.
The attrition has indeed been unusually high. Players leaving for reasons other than playing time are of a particular concern. It's one thing for an athlete to get recruited over and leave when faced with riding the pine. But an athlete who can't cut it academically should have been screened out in the recruiting process; and if too many athletes leave because of conflicts with the coaches, you eventually have to look at the coaches.
OBear073akaSMFan
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Schroeder71;494717 said:

one would think that she understands the type of student-athlete that fits at Cal. If she loses more starters or former McDonald's AAs, she should be terminated. How many programs have lost their top scorer for frosh/soph seasons to transfer?

Super Seven Class: reduced to 3 healthy & hopefully 4 w/ Brandon
_________________________________________________
Denesha Stallworth (transfer)
Elisa Pierre
Gennifer Brandon (medical redshirt)
Tierra Rogers (medical retirement)
Talia Caldwell
Laysia Clarendon
Brenna Heater (transfer)?



In the case of Brenna the last we heard from her was that she loss interest in BB. I found this article which is about a year after she left. However dodn't know if she has since had a change of mind.

http://www.dailytidings.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100320/SPORTS/3200316
puget sound cal fan
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I agree that the lack of depth hampered the Bears last season, and the confidence of young players may have been severely tested during the season. My concern is the suggestion that player departures may be the result of some fundamental unaddressed issues between Boyle and her players.
ckgruffbear
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puget sound cal fan;495427 said:

I agree that the lack of depth hampered the Bears last season, and the confidence of young players may have been severely tested during the season. My concern is the suggestion that player departures may be the result of some fundamental unaddressed issues between Boyle and her players.


i agree. and furthermore, what message does Cal send to future recruits and their families when the lone player representing Cal on the All Pac-10 team leaves? i think the buck stops with the coach. i am tired of all of the excuses. enough is enough.
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