I understand there are 2 more players that may leave. Boyle has had highly regarded recruiting classes but two trips to the NIT even winning one seems to be under whelming.

Now the players jumping ship. Ouch.

This program costs the athletic department I believe 3 million a year. Doesn't appear we are getting a lot for that.

2 more players leave? The staff should be right behind them. This is inexcusable.

that Joanne had lost control of the team may have had more substance than most people thought at the time.

I hope she can turn it around, but if there are more defections it could spell trouble.

Anyone know how many years Joanne has left on her contract?

dfineguy;494302 said:

---

2 more players leave?

---

Unfortunately there must be some truth to this..cause this is the 2nd person (willtalk) to hint at this. Even if doesn't come true..the rumors can still be hurtful to the program.

Cal is not for everyone. You simply don't go after the most talented players. The successful coaches at Cal, Monty, Tedford, Clark, Augustus, McKeever, etc., all say there are kids they will not go after, and the most important criteria is the fit. I have heard each of the 5 coaches named above say this publicily. You need a fit and someone who can matriculate. The player can't be afraid of having to work hard in the class room. As a result, these programs have far less attrition, and have success. Its nice to think you can get a talented basketball player to change. And Boyle puts an amazing effort into making the players more well rounded people. The class JB inherited was full of players that wanted to achieve on the court and in the class room. They were driven (AGL wants to go to Harvard Law, Grief to be a coach, Hampton to teach, etc.). Only recruiting the best talent is not the recipe for succeeding at Cal. Its a recipe for dissention and transfers. My cousin (a college professor) had one of the women's bball players that transferred in his class at her new school. She didn't even bother to attend the final. Just gave-up. Who the f___ are we recruiting? Sorry for the :rant

wifeisafurd;494398 said:

---

Cal is not for everyone. You simply don't go after the most talented players. The successful coaches at Cal, Monty, Tedford, Clark, Augustus, McKeever, etc., all say there are kids they will not go after, and the most important criteria is the fit. I have heard each of the 5 coaches named above say this publicily. You need a fit and someone who can matriculate. The player can't be afraid of having to work hard in the class room. As a result, these programs have far less attrition, and have success. Its nice to think you can get a talented basketball player to change. And Boyle puts an amazing effort into making the players more well rounded people. The class JB inherited was full of players that wanted to achieve on the court and in the class room. They were driven (AGL wants to go to Harvard Law, Grief to be a coach, Hampton to teach, etc.). Only recruiting the best talent is not the recipe for succeeding at Cal. Its a recipe for dissention and transfers. My cousin (a college professor) had one of the women's bball players that transferred in his class at her new school. She didn't even bother to attend the final. Just gave-up. Who the f___ are we recruiting? Sorry for the :rant

---

This post may strike at the heart of the matter. Food for thought!

GldnBear71;494344 said:

---

that Joanne had lost control of the team may have had more substance than most people thought at the time.

---

To me, losing control of the team means that some of the players are no longer doing what the coaches ask. That did not happen this season.

So far, nothing in the postseason has been surprising. The departure of DeNesha Stallworth was disappointing but not surprising. If there are more departures, that wouldn't be surprising either. I may change my tune depending on the identity of other departures, if any.

Quote:

---

Anyone know how many years Joanne has left on her contract?

---

I think most people assume that [URL="http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/compensation/Salary%20item%2005.08%20--%20Boyle.pdf"][COLOR="Blue"]this proposed contract (pdf file)[/COLOR][/URL] was approved as written, in which case she has 3 years remaining.

wifeisafurd;494398 said:

---

Cal is not for everyone. You simply don't go after the most talented players. The successful coaches at Cal, Monty, Tedford, Clark, Augustus, McKeever, etc., all say there are kids they will not go after, and the most important criteria is the fit. I have heard each of the 5 coaches named above say this publicily. You need a fit and someone who can matriculate. The player can't be afraid of having to work hard in the class room. As a result, these programs have far less attrition, and have success. Its nice to think you can get a talented basketball player to change. And Boyle puts an amazing effort into making the players more well rounded people. The class JB inherited was full of players that wanted to achieve on the court and in the class room. They were driven (AGL wants to go to Harvard Law, Grief to be a coach, Hampton to teach, etc.). Only recruiting the best talent is not the recipe for succeeding at Cal. Its a recipe for dissention and transfers. My cousin (a college professor) had one of the women's bball players that transferred in his class at her new school. She didn't even bother to attend the final. Just gave-up. Who the f___ are we recruiting? Sorry for the :rant

---

Great post and an interesting perspective. Thanks.

Perhaps JB should talk to one or more of the coaches you mentioned to get a different perspective on recruiting student athletes (as opposed to players) to Cal.

wifeisafurd;494398 said:

---

Cal is not for everyone...

---

It may be a rant, but it's an intelligent rant, and I appreciate the lack of finger-pointing and rumor-mongering. Thanks!

P.S. I've always wondered what your wife thinks of your nom de board, if anything. (Is hers "spouseofabear"?)

wifeisafurd;494398 said:

---

... You need a fit and someone who can matriculate ... The class JB inherited was full of players that wanted to achieve on the court and in the class room. They were driven (AGL wants to go to Harvard Law, Grief to be a coach, Hampton to teach, etc.) ...

---

After the experiences with Lenita Sanford, Shawna-Lei Kuehu, and Kendra Calvin, it's not exactly a secret that Joanne Boyle has been willing to recruit players who have possible academic issues. If you talk to her, she'll tell you rather earnestly and convincingly that she wants to give these kids a chance even if the odds are a bit long.

That's an unusual set of examples that you chose to cite. Joanne has cited Lexi and Dev as examples of high school students that deserve a chance at Cal even if their background isn't that of a typical Cal admission. And I'm not sure why you talked about "The class JB inherited" and Lauren Greif, since Lauren was Joanne's first recruit.

Speaking of academics, the [URL="http://www.calbears.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/032911aaa.html"][COLOR="Blue"]2010-11 Pac-10 All-Academic team[/COLOR][/URL] was announced recently, with congratulations in order for Rachelle Federico and Layshia Clarendon. That honor is hardly a final authority on academic achievement, since academic freshmen aren't eligible, the player has to be a starter or "significant contributor", and GPA can be a reflection of the difficulty of a chosen major. But it's interesting to look back (by the way, I'm not making a distinction between 1st or 2nd team or honorable mention because any presence on the list means the student-athlete earned the required 3.0 GPA).

Caren Horstmeyer's recruits always had an outstanding record of making the All-Academic team ... until her final class (the one Joanne inherited). That class never earned a single All-Academic honor.

Joanne's recruits certainly haven't fared as well as Caren's earlier classes. The percentage of honors per year of eligibility doesn't look that bad until you realize that the overall years of eligibility have been artificially decreased by the number of players who left or never arrived.

Anyway, I appreciate your post, but since you raised this issue in the context of departures after the 2010-11 season, I hope people do NOT simply assume that academics are a factor in each case. That's especially true in a case (such as DeNesha's) where there are some real athletics-only issues that could have been the basis for the decision to leave.

I'm told she does not have kids she can coach. Person told me they were surprised she didn't take one of the opportunities she had to leave. Definitely sounds like a bad fit at Cal

WayneBear;494455 said:

---

After the experiences with Lenita Sanford, Shawna-Lei Kuehu, and Kendra Calvin, it's not exactly a secret that Joanne Boyle has been willing to recruit players who have possible academic issues. If you talk to her, she'll tell you rather earnestly and convincingly that she wants to give these kids a chance even if the odds are a bit long.

That's an unusual set of examples that you chose to cite. Joanne has cited Lexi and Dev as examples of high school students that deserve a chance at Cal even if their background isn't that of a typical Cal admission.

---

To be honest, your defense of Boyle is the post on the thread that makes me most concerned about Boyle. This sounds a heck of a lot like Braun who killed himself with that kind of recruiting. NOBODY deserves a chance at Cal. You earn a spot at Cal.

Now, when you compare somebody like Boyle to somebody like Tedford, it could very well be that the philosophy does not produce any difference in terms of the GPA's of students being recruited. But the attitude of "deserves a chance" like somehow their background wipes away their academic struggles vs. "finding a good fit" is tremendously different. In both cases, let's face it, the coach wants the kid because they are good at their sport. But the Tedford way is basically saying kids that leave the program don't do him any good and he needs kids that are willing to believably commit to doing what it takes to succeed in the classroom with all the help the staff can provide. The "deserves a chance" mantra seems to be more along the lines of "aw. no one has given this kid a chance in the classroom. Maybe if I do, just maybe they'll do something with it."

I'll reiterate - no one deserves a chance at Cal. Its not a charity. You sign those admissions forms, you make a commitment to do what it takes to succeed in the school. You don't do that, you go home. For most kids, that doesn't matter to anyone but themselves and their family. For these athletes, if the coaches want to succeed they better make sure those kids understand that commitment up front.

IMO, Cal doesn't need coaches that are trying to give kids chances.

WayneBear;494455 said:

---

After the experiences with Lenita Sanford, Shawna-Lei Kuehu, and Kendra Calvin, it's not exactly a secret that Joanne Boyle has been willing to recruit players who have possible academic issues. If you talk to her, she'll tell you rather earnestly and convincingly that she wants to give these kids a chance even if the odds are a bit long.

That's an unusual set of examples that you chose to cite. Joanne has cited Lexi and Dev as examples of high school students that deserve a chance at Cal even if their background isn't that of a typical Cal admission. And I'm not sure why you talked about "The class JB inherited" and Lauren Greif, since Lauren was Joanne's first recruit.

Speaking of academics, the [URL="http://www.calbears.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/032911aaa.html"][COLOR="Blue"]2010-11 Pac-10 All-Academic team[/COLOR][/URL] was announced recently, with congratulations in order for Rachelle Federico and Layshia Clarendon. That honor is hardly a final authority on academic achievement, since academic freshmen aren't eligible, the player has to be a starter or "significant contributor", and GPA can be a reflection of the difficulty of a chosen major. But it's interesting to look back (by the way, I'm not making a distinction between 1st or 2nd team or honorable mention because any presence on the list means the student-athlete earned the required 3.0 GPA).

Caren Horstmeyer's recruits always had an outstanding record of making the All-Academic team ... until her final class (the one Joanne inherited). That class never earned a single All-Academic honor.

Joanne's recruits certainly haven't fared as well as Caren's earlier classes. The percentage of honors per year of eligibility doesn't look that bad until you realize that the overall years of eligibility have been artificially decreased by the number of players who left or never arrived.

Anyway, I appreciate your post, but since you raised this issue in the context of departures after the 2010-11 season, I hope people do NOT simply assume that academics are a factor in each case. That's especially true in a case (such as DeNesha's) where there are some real athletics-only issues that could have been the basis for the decision to leave.

---

Grief was a Boyle recruit. A very heady player. Boyle came close on some big name palyers that first year, and Grief was somewhat an afterthought, but she was a great fit for Cal.

DS was a fit issue (also a topic), and not an academic issue. Not sure the academic honors for for one or two folks does much for me. I was very impressed with the charector of the players on the team that went to the Sweet 16. You only had to talk to them to get that sense.

Boyle takes more risks than any other Cal coach, and has a remarkable attrition rate for a program that often is very short-handed. I admire her courage, but Cal is an unusual place which requries a certain skills set, academic and otherwise.

OaktownBear;494600 said:

---

To be honest, your defense of Boyle is the post on the thread that makes me most concerned about Boyle.

---

My post was not a "defense" of Joanne Boyle. I merely wanted to bring up several facts on the topic that wifeisafurd was raising. In fact, by recounting what Joanne has said in the past (with which you may or may not have been familiar), my facts probably helped you make your point.

I don't think anyone who wants to defend Joanne would bring up the specific names of her earlier flame-outs (recruits who never even made it onto the official roster). For fans who follow the Cal WBB program closely, those 3 names evoke some unpleasant memories (with which you may or may not be familiar).

And while I will reiterate that the All-Academic team doesn't come close to providing much insight into what's going on with our players' academic lives, it is a starting point and I've previously taken note of the very significant drop-off in Cal's representation since Joanne arrived. Again, not a point that would be raised by someone who wants to defend Joanne's philosophy.

The issue of postseason departures is important to those of us who follow the program and are familiar with the individuals involved. I understand the desire to find some unifying theme for all the departures and no-shows, but there were in fact some very specific issues involved in each departure. And frankly, familiarity with those specific issues would probably make people more concerned about what's going on than any general discussion about giving kids chances.

I am a little confused on what knowledgeable people would really recommend at this point:

1. More players who might have a better shot at making an all academic team? Sounds like a great idea if they are available and we can attract them. I would never want to recruit anyone who is clearly not capable of getting nor highly motivated of obtaining a Cal degree. Winning is never worth wasting valuable academic space and opportunities.

2. Players who might be more coachable but perhaps less talented, at least on paper? Certainly takes a lot of work and perhaps luck to make the right decisions on personnel with that approach, but some coaches do it well.

3. Players who have already played in a structured system similar to Joanne's and who would respond better to her coaching style and personality, along with fewer players who would not fit this style? Again, you would have to recruit more carefully to your particular system, or change the system.

4. Some better shooters? Yes, please.

5. Fewer injury-prone players? If you can somehow be certain on that.

6. More natural leaders? All successfull teams do have players who are willing to take charge and make the overall team play better.

7. Some taller players? There really is quite a bit of parity in the women's game on the frontlines, with so many players of about the same size.

8. A different coach or system at this point? Do players leave or play poorly because they are feeling too many negative vibes? Is Joanne not capable of recruiting a team that does fit together as a group?

I look at this downyear as primarily due to injuries and with a pretty big mismatch of some player skills at some positions. We do have to get some shooters or coach some of these players up in that area, and we also need some people to develop a midrange game. Also, we were lacking a take-charge player and a real distributor at point guard, who must also shoot well enough to keep defenses honest. (Eliza, I still think you can develop into that player.)

Or do the departures and late season collapse instead mean that we really are going to have to just start over?

annarborbear;494683 said:

---

Or do the departures and late season collapse instead mean that we really are going to have to just start over?

---

Does "departures" in the plural include graduations, or are you expecting more transfers?

Regarding DeNesha, this Daily Cal article on her transfer mentions Kansas, Florida and Fresno State. None much like Cal.
http://www.dailycal.org/article/112553/stallworth_transferring_from_cal

stu;494688 said:

---

Does "departures" in the plural include graduations, or are you expecting more transfers?

Regarding DeNesha, this Daily Cal article on her transfer mentions Kansas, Florida and Fresno State. None much like Cal.
http://www.dailycal.org/article/112553/stallworth_transferring_from_cal

---

I was thinking more about the steady departures over the years. When you do have steady turnover, it does call into question your overall recruiting strategy, whatever that may be. However, I also do think there was enough negativity apparent on the court this year that at least one more departure would not be surprising.

one would think that she understands the type of student-athlete that fits at Cal. If she loses more starters or former McDonald's AAs, she should be terminated. How many programs have lost their top scorer for frosh/soph seasons to transfer?

Super Seven Class: reduced to 3 healthy & hopefully 4 w/ Brandon
_________________________________________________
Denesha Stallworth (transfer)
Elisa Pierre
Gennifer Brandon (medical redshirt)
Tierra Rogers (medical retirement)
Talia Caldwell
Laysia Clarendon
Brenna Heater (transfer)

The prior season Boyle lost three players to transfers: Casey Morris (starter for Texas Tech), Kelsey Adrian & Angelei Aguirre (both starters at UCSB)

The Cal program is a revolving door with three new players coming into the program while another trio is departing...No wonder that the team is perennially short on personnel.

I posted that I thought that she had lost control of the team when Boyle repeatedly stated (to paraphrase) that strategy wasn't the problem but sustaining forty minutes of effort was...Only Pierre, Brandon (as a frosh), Caldwell & Clarendon produced consistent effort among the regular playing rotation. Others would not hit the floor for a loose ball, jump for a rebound or hustle after the ball. Too bad Tierra Rogers had to prematurely retire because I got to witness her play at Sacred Heart Cathedral & she was an effort player, too!

It will interesting to see what happens...GO BEARS!

The primary problem with the WBB team are obvious: coaching. If you look at the teams, men and women, who have been successful in the NCAA tournament. Tall, short, young, old, fast, slow have all found ways to succeed because the coaches developed strategies to allow the players to succeed and because the coaches have convinced the players to believe in the system and themselves. JB recruits athletes, but fails to design for them and fails to "sell" them a system to succeed. I don't suggest JB doesn't know basketball strategy, but she clearly doesn't teach it well nor sell her strategy well. Commentators here say look at her record going to the NIT etc., that is not the proper measure. Look at the progress her teams and players make toward realizing their potential. Case in point, Mooch. Had JB recognized Mooch's abilities and contributions earlier (like when she was a freshman) perhaps she would have developed into a greater contributor as an upperclassman. My observation is that Mooch's skills were no better as a senior than as a freshman;only her confidence changed. Good coaches put players into positions to succeed and to bolster and develop confidence. Hopefully, JB will recognize her own shortcomings and get help to solve these problems.

WayneBear;494412 said:

---

To me, losing control of the team means that some of the players are no longer doing what the coaches ask. That did not happen this season.

---

There were several games this year when some of the players did not seem to be playing with very much intensity. This was particularly noticeable in a few of the games after the close loss to Arizona State. I don't think a coach has complete control of the team when some of the players are "phoning it in".

I'm willing to concede, however, that a coach may have limited options to use substitution as a motivating factor if the bench is short and/or there is a significant drop-off in talent.

Assuming there are no more departures we should have a deep enough bench next season that additional substitutions can be used as motivation. We'll see.

Schroeder71;494717 said:

---

Only Pierre, Brandon (as a frosh), Caldwell & Clarendon produced consistent effort among the regular playing rotation.

---

You seem to be defining "effort" as visible physical agitation. That's not how I would define effort.

How would I compare the individual effort on this team over the past season? Well, if you adjust for speed and fitness (i.e. don't give undue effort points for stamina or outrunning slower teammates OR give extra points to slower players who labor more visibly while running OR penalize players whose mobility is limited by injury), familiarity with the playbook (don't penalize players who stop or slow down in mid-play because they don't know where to go), tailoring of the offense (it's easier to stay in full motion when plays are built around you), AND include mental effort (don't penalize players who wisely wait for a play to develop and don't give extra points for aimless, purposeless movement), I would rate all the players as roughly equal EXCEPT for DeNesha's lack of persistence in establishing offensive position on the low block.

If you believe that there was a lack of sustained effort, that would apply to EVERYONE, most definitely including the ones you mentioned. On the other hand, if you want me to work from the premise that the coaching totally sucked and the players tried as hard as they could under the circumstances, then I would say that applied to EVERYONE, including DeNesha.

bearchamp;494761 said:

---

The primary problem with the WBB team are obvious: coaching. If you look at the teams, men and women, who have been successful in the NCAA tournament. Tall, short, young, old, fast, slow have all found ways to succeed because the coaches developed strategies to allow the players to succeed and because the coaches have convinced the players to believe in the system and themselves. JB recruits athletes, but fails to design for them and fails to "sell" them a system to succeed. I don't suggest JB doesn't know basketball strategy, but she clearly doesn't teach it well nor sell her strategy well. Commentators here say look at her record going to the NIT etc., that is not the proper measure. Look at the progress her teams and players make toward realizing their potential. Case in point, Mooch. Had JB recognized Mooch's abilities and contributions earlier (like when she was a freshman) perhaps she would have developed into a greater contributor as an upperclassman. My observation is that Mooch's skills were no better as a senior than as a freshman;only her confidence changed. Good coaches put players into positions to succeed and to bolster and develop confidence. Hopefully, JB will recognize her own shortcomings and get help to solve these problems.

---

I have been reluctant to draw that conclusion, but you do make some excellent points. This next year should be enough to reach a final conclusion. Hopefully, the results and approach will change.

it is simply not fair to put blame of any sort on the recruitment of Tierra Rogers where the issue of redshirt or retirement due to injuries is concerned. Tierra's heart condition was impossible to foresee.

That leaves injury to one player (Gennifer). Injury to one player in a given season does not indicate a trend.

Schroeder71;494717 said:

---

Boyle is a Duke product as player & coach, so one would think that she understands the type of student-athlete that fits at Cal. If she loses more starters or former McDonald's AAs, she should be terminated. How many programs have lost their top scorer for frosh/soph seasons to transfer?

Super Seven Class: reduced to 3 healthy & hopefully 4 w/ Brandon
_________________________________________________
Denesha Stallworth (transfer)
Elisa Pierre
Gennifer Brandon (medical redshirt)
Tierra Rogers (medical retirement)
Talia Caldwell
Laysia Clarendon
Brenna Heater (transfer)

The prior season Boyle lost three players to transfers: Casey Morris (starter for Texas Tech), Kelsey Adrian & Angelei Aguirre (both starters at UCSB)

The Cal program is a revolving door with three new players coming into the program while another trio is departing...No wonder that the team is perennially short on personnel.

It will interesting to see what happens...GO BEARS!

---

The steady stream of transfers is a much greater concern IMO.

GldnBear71;494814 said:

---

There were several games this year when some of the players did not seem to be playing with very much intensity. This was particularly noticeable in a few of the games after the close loss to Arizona State. I don't think a coach has complete control of the team when some of the players are "phoning it in".

---

Sorry, I didn't see your post when I was typing the post on effort. Otherwise I would have mentioned your point.

I agree that the team seemed to fall apart after the ASU loss. But I didn't see it as a lack of effort. Immediately after the ASU game, the team came home for the Washington homestand. I was watching the team closely during pregame warmups and the start of the game to see if there was some carryover or a sense that they had given up on the season. The team looked fine and then Washington opened with a display of outside shooting that the Huskies hadn't shown all year. The coaches and players both seemed stunned and discouraged, and it was as close to an in-game mental and emotional breakdown as I've ever seen at Cal. But the physical effort was still there.

Then the next game, they had the WSU game in relative command and were playing OK and then the Cougars came back late and just outscored us at the end. It was like a car race where you led all the way and then got passed on the final turn without a chance to respond. I don't think the team could quite believe what happened. Again I didn't see that game or the subsequent tailspin as a lack of effort, but more like a team that had suddenly lost its confidence.

We may be saying the same thing in different ways, but I just don't want casual fans to compare the past season to other situations where a coach truly has lost control and suffered a player revolt or mental walkout. Our breakdown was a lot more subtle than that.

Fragile competitiveness is a hallmark of a lack of confidence in abilities and the system. The late season collapses make the point. Once the team encountered adversity, they stood around and watched Layshia dribble until she shot. Obviously, Layshia lacked confidence in her teammates or JB failed to require her to engage her teammates. For several years the "system" has been to watch and see if someone with extraordinary skills could save the day. One can understand why effort is less or appears less when the player's role is to stand and watch as no pass will be forthcoming. Even for DS, why work if the ball never is where it should be? Again, coaches solve these poblems.

Genykologist;494808 said:

---

Was anybody else foolish enough to offer her $500K a year? Maybe it's as simple as Cal being the only school willing to vastly overpay a coach in a non-revenue sport.

---

Joanne's current contract was a re-negotiation of her original contract, and was made in response to what was believed to be a comparable offer from Florida and a higher offer from Duke.

stu;494688 said:

---

Does "departures" in the plural include graduations, or are you expecting more transfers?

Regarding DeNesha, this Daily Cal article on her transfer mentions Kansas, Florida and Fresno State. None much like Cal.
http://www.dailycal.org/article/112553/stallworth_transferring_from_cal

---

An added idea: If the Coach could be convinced of the importance of this for DeNesha, I wonder if the family could approach her about a redshirt year instead of a transfer at this point. This is a very young kid about to make an irrevocably life-altering decision. A year off might give her time to sort out her future direction in life while also working quietly on her game without pressure. If things go well for the team and for her, all parties could then look at her situation again after the next year. She might also learn more in working through adversity than she will ever learn in Kansas or Fresno, if those are her options. And she can always go to Kansas or Fresno after a redshirt year if nothing has changed. This presumes that our real ultimate priority is still seeing that our kids get a Cal degree and succeed with their lives. Although I don't know much about her and her situation, and maybe living far away from home for awhile is what she really needs.

bearchamp;494761 said:

---

Case in point, Mooch. Had JB recognized Mooch's abilities and contributions earlier (like when she was a freshman) perhaps she would have developed into a greater contributor as an upperclassman. My observation is that Mooch's skills were no better as a senior than as a freshman;only her confidence changed. Good coaches put players into positions to succeed and to bolster and develop confidence

---

Rachelle started playing basketball at a late age and was recruited on a hunch that she might be a late bloomer. If you had really watched her as a freshman, you would have seen a player who was not even close to being ready to play in the Pac-10. Her play on both ends of the court was far too slow and passive to attribute solely to a lack of confidence. The only thing she could do adequately was shoot from the outside, and even then her motion was too slow to think of using her as a designated shooter (not that there ever has been such a role under Joanne). If a player had the slightest potential to develop, you would have at least seen a glimmer of hope in the open practice, summer league, or garbage time, but Rachelle looked like a lost cause thru the start of her junior year. I say this as one of her many fans who wanted to see signs of progress and saw none.

Rachelle's progress (and occasional lack thereof) in her junior and senior years was discussed in [URL="http://bearinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41463"][COLOR="Blue"]this previous thread[/COLOR][/URL]. As for progress, her passing and defense were far, far better at the end of her career than at the beginning, to a degree that could not be attributed solely to confidence. I attribute her progress to hard work and yes, coaching.

Anyway, while Rachelle is a horrible example to use, I do agree that Joanne does not tailor her system to put all of her players in the best position to succeed.

2 more key transfers. I have the names but dont want to publish if it doesnt happen

Virginia

I suggest that you (and everyone) stop the rumor-mongering and wait for the facts.

diva1;494890 said:

---

2 more key transfers. I have the names but dont want to publish if it doesnt happen

---

annarborbear;494847 said:

---

maybe living far away from home for awhile is what she really needs.

---

I can't speak for DeNesha (or Casey) and I wasn't an athlete, but at age 18 getting away from home was exactly what I needed. And what home needed.

So what that you know of 2 potential transfers? Big whoop. Do you keep posting these hints and rumor-mongering to make yourself look "in-the-know?" I don't personally care about the rumors; if you aren't going to tell us who they are (and I certainly hope you don't!) then don't bring it up. At least E_Culb's question about DeNesha before it was confirmed was an informational question, or posed as one, anyway. Give me a break. How does this rumor-mongering do anything but make a bad situation that much worse?

its not rumour mongering, it is a problem in the program, women's team fans are so funny, never want to admit when there is a problem.

Notice I did NOT say that there wasn't something wrong with the program. I'd just rather read posts that don't seem to be designed to show off the poster's knowledge or fan the flames. Notice I DID say "making a bad situation worse," so I think I acknowledged that this is a bad situation. I'm sorry, but I think it's a bit inappropriate to post rumors. You have mentioned more than once that you know of potential transfers, almost as if you enjoy taunting. Saying it once was enough, we get the point. Your continued emphasis and cryptic mentioning of this seems more designed to call attention to yourself than to the problem(s).

I think we all know that our problem with transfers is both a situational issue and a systemic problem with the program, whether that be Joanne or her staff or her recruiting or any of the other ideas floated around on this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if 1, if not 2, other players left, so, yes, I do fully acknowledge that something's going on.