Forgive me if I sound uninformed.

. Is the Spring WBB signing period the same as MBB (April 11 to April 16)?

. Are we in pusuit of anyone for the Spring signing period?

. We signed Forbes (All American, etc.) in the Fall signing period, right? Did we sign anyone else in the Fall? How tall is Forbes? Wing or Front court player?

. Next year, we are young and talented in the backcourt (except Asha who will be Senior). Our front court is talented when KA is healthy (thank you KA), but, I think they are almost all Seniors and Juniors.

. KA will be Senior next year. One would think we need to sign more 6'-4" or 6'-3" strong and talented front court players (yes, I know, they are hard to find). Remember, last year Cal was very good with KA in the line-up and very average when KA was on the bench (foul trouble or injury).

Any insight would be appreciated.

Go Bears!

Yes it's the same time period as men's basketball. Forbes is our only signee for 2018. There's been some speculation on this board about a potential transfer from Vanderbilt. If it happens, she'd have to sit out a year. Otherwise, the staff is working on the 2019 class. We have one commit, thus far, for that class - a guard from Oklahoma, Lauren Fields.

How tall is Forbes? G, W or C?

The same question about the potential transfer from Vandy?

Well, I am on a roll, so, how tall is the 2019 commit from OK,? PG or SG?

Go Bears!

The Vandy transfer announced several days ago she is going to USC

Darn it! USC desperately needed rebounding and they land her. I had Cal finishing above Troy next season but now I don't know...The Trojans lost three starters but they add Mariya Moore (20 points per game?). It is unbelievable how Gottlieb & Co fail to get these players! Her success rate is way below the" law of averages"

Cal could use a fourth post player to replace Penina Davidson. CJ West or Alaysia Styles will have to play major minutes each next season. Styles needs to get stronger and more physical. CJ needs to get in optimal shape because she will play 25-30 minutes. In the final game, when KA was out, West wore down in the 2nd half due to her heavy work load. I would have thought that Gottlieb would have at least grabbed a foreign post player. Most of the teams in the Pac 12 have foreign players on their respective rosters. If Anigwe cannot play next season, Cal will only have two post players on the team? Gottlieb is rolling the dice there. The Bears would have to play small ball with more minutes going to Jaelyn Brown (6-1) and Mackenzie Forbes (6-0) as rebounders.
GO BEARS!

Schroeder71 said:

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Darn it! USC desperately needed rebounding and they land her. I had Cal finishing above Troy next season but now I don't know...The Trojans lost three starters but they add Mariya Moore (20 points per game?). It is unbelievable how Gottlieb & Co fail to get these players! Her success rate is way below the" law of averages"

Cal could use a fourth post player to replace Penina Davidson. CJ West or Alaysia Styles will have to play major minutes each next season. Styles needs to get stronger and more physical. CJ needs to get in optimal shape because she will play 25-30 minutes. In the final game, when KA was out, West wore down in the 2nd half due to her heavy work load. I would have thought that Gottlieb would have at least grabbed a foreign post player. Most of the teams in the Pac 12 have foreign players on their respective rosters. If Anigwe cannot play next season, Cal will only have two post players on the team? Gottlieb is rolling the dice there. The Bears would have to play small ball with more minutes going to Jaelyn Brown (6-1) and Mackenzie Forbes (6-0) as rebounders.
GO BEARS!

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How is this Coach Gottlieb's fault in this particular case? The young woman from Vanderbilt is from Newbury Park in Ventura County. It's much closer from her parent's home to $C than it is to Cal so they will be able to watch their daughter play. She wanted to play closer to home for that very reason. Besides, she will have to sit out this year after transferring.

Your constant haranguing about Coach Gottlieb's recruiting is very tiresome particularly coming from someone who won't set foot in Haas Pavilion for a women's game. You have all the answers. Ever coached basketball?

Guess what? Penina Davidson is a foreign player. Likewise Chen Yue (Post player). And Sara Anastasieska (Australia) is too. Sara also transferred into Cal from Texas/San Antonio. Score one for Coach G.!!

Cal did not originally recruit Davidson. Tara Van de veer referred her to Gottlieb because there was not a scholarship available for her in Palo Alto. Chen Yue & Sara A are not primetime foreign recruits. bottomline:
Gottlieb has been outrecruited overseas by virtually every team in the conference. Do you really want me to name
all of the foreign recruits that started last year and/or will start this year? I met coach Gottlieb at the Mitty-BOD playoff game and she is a very likeable person.

GO BEARS!

Mariya Moore's sister plays at USC ...

And due to personality conflicts (no blame, just the way things are sometimes), LG couldn't have both the Moore sisters and Gabby Green/Cowling. I'm not sure if she "chose" the latter as much as they chose Cal -- and a bird in the hand ...

And of course, Mignon was younger, and at that time, was not considered, by anyone, to be as good as she turned out to be. So getting two players right now (Green and Cowling), as opposed to one now and one later (even if she could have gotten them), makes sense.

Again, it's not like coaches can just wave a magic wand and get whoever they want. The decision comes from the other side, from the players and families, and often the key factors are out of any coach's control.

If recruiting, and related performance, are not under the control of our coach, then we could definitely save money by going with someone less expensive.

annarborbear said:

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If recruiting, and related performance, are not under the control of our coach, then we could definitely save money by going with someone less expensive.

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Who is saying that they are not under her control? Blaming her for not getting Kayla Overbeck and/or Mariya Moore as transfers is ridiculous. Give the players some credit for having their own priorities. As is the blame for no noteworthy foreign players. What's next? No grad transfers? Each coach has recruiting priorities to create a bench of contributing players.

Recruiting is the sum total of the number and quality of student-athletes that decide to play for your school and your coaching staff. Anyone want to make a case that we are out-recruiting our other major opponents at this point?

ClayK said:

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Mariya Moore's sister plays at USC ...

And due to personality conflicts (no blame, just the way things are sometimes), LG couldn't have both the Moore sisters and Gabby Green/Cowling. I'm not sure if she "chose" the latter as much as they chose Cal -- and a bird in the hand ...

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IMO, I think a Cowling & Mariya was a possibility but not a Mariya & Green. I remember in their HS games there were lots of intensity between mariya and Green.

Other major sports at Cal disclose the names of all student-athletes to whom they have made scholarship offers. Cal women's basketball never does that. Why is that the case? Would be easier to assess our coaching staff's ultimate recruiting performance with that information.

annarborbear said:

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Recruiting is the sum total of the number and quality of student-athletes that decide to play for your school and your coaching staff. Anyone want to make a case that we are out-recruiting our other major opponents at this point?

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True up to a point ...

But another definition would be "the sum total and quality of student-athletes that decide to play for your school and your coaching staff available to your university."

For example, you wouldn't judge the Cal Poly SLO coach on the same standard as LG, nor could you judge LG on the same standard as Geno Auriemma.

The complication, of course, is that we really don't know what talent is "available" to Cal -- or, to put it another way, how many of the athletes who choose other Pac-12 or P5 schools seriously considered Cal. We can say "Oh, Lindsay should have recruited Katie Lou Samuelson," and count it as a failure that she didn't, or we can wonder whether KLS ever would have considered Cal.

And let's take Haley Jones, the prime NorCal recruit for next year. If she doesn't go to Cal, does the blame fall on Lindsay Gottlieb? I guess you could make that case, but if Jones goes to Stanford, say, she was looking at something different than Cal. If she goes to UConn, same thing, and so on down the line. One might say "Well, if she chooses LA, then Lindsay blew it," but what if Haley's dream was to live in Southern California (not saying it is, and I doubt that it is)? Or any other number of factors?

I understand your point. But if recruiting is merely the luck of the draw, then why not go with a volunteer coach instead of a $700,000 a year coach?

I see where Oregon has something like 4 or 5 players transferring.

They still have Ionescu, Cazorla, Hebard, Sabally, her sister, McGuire, and Boley so aren't worried I don'think.

I don't think they are worried at all. But there are some on this board who want us to give out all our scholarships. And when you do they transfer.

3Cats4CAL said:

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They still have Ionescu, Cazorla, Hebard, Sabally, her sister, McGuire, and Boley so aren't worried I don'think.

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I don't think they are too worried, but they do lose Bando to graduation. She usually leads the league in 3 pt shooting %. But the Ducks didn't lose a beat when she was injured the later part of the year.

Not every player works out. You have to expect some transfers, some injuries, and some people who are simply not as good as you had hoped. But that is why you need a good recruiting class year after year. At that point, survival of the fittest takes over. Looks like that is what is happening with the Oregon transfers. Especially since they have also had an important transfer in.

ClayK said:

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annarborbear said:

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Recruiting is the sum total of the number and quality of student-athletes that decide to play for your school and your coaching staff. Anyone want to make a case that we are out-recruiting our other major opponents at this point?

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True up to a point ...

But another definition would be "the sum total and quality of student-athletes that decide to play for your school and your coaching staff available to your university."

For example, you wouldn't judge the Cal Poly SLO coach on the same standard as LG, nor could you judge LG on the same standard as Geno Auriemma.

The complication, of course, is that we really don't know what talent is "available" to Cal -- or, to put it another way, how many of the athletes who choose other Pac-12 or P5 schools seriously considered Cal. We can say "Oh, Lindsay should have recruited Katie Lou Samuelson," and count it as a failure that she didn't, or we can wonder whether KLS ever would have considered Cal.

And let's take Haley Jones, the prime NorCal recruit for next year. If she doesn't go to Cal, does the blame fall on Lindsay Gottlieb? I guess you could make that case, but if Jones goes to Stanford, say, she was looking at something different than Cal. If she goes to UConn, same thing, and so on down the line. One might say "Well, if she chooses LA, then Lindsay blew it," but what if Haley's dream was to live in Southern California (not saying it is, and I doubt that it is)? Or any other number of factors?

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Good laugh at this thread. LG actually has a lot of talent on that bench. Hoopgulz ratings:

5 starts: Chen, Smith, Forbes, Anigwe, Cowling, Green, Range

4 stars: Styles, Brown, Cayton, Cavanaugh, Waters

3 stars: West, Mosley, Thomas, Jeflo

I don't know what Davidson was rated, but if Tara wanted her, she has talent. Don't know if Sara A was ranked by anyone.

Even with the usual attrition, most collegiate coaches would kill to have this level of recruiting. LG is a good recruiter. The question is have these players and the team developed? Hard to say. Team wise they have been mostly upper tier, but not top tier, of an increasingly difficult conference. Cowling was drafted, Anigwe will be drafted in the first round, Range made a WNBA roster, and Gotlieb inherited several players from Boyle who play in the pros. Probably more individual success than team success currently. I honestly don't know that it can be said where the program is headed at this point. Its not like say football where you can say they are on an up, or volleyball which is on a down.

annarborbear said:

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Not every player works out. You have to expect some transfers, some injuries, and some people who are simply not as good as you had hoped. But that is why you need a good recruiting class year after year. At that point, survival of the fittest takes over. Looks like that is what is happening with the Oregon transfers. Especially since they have also had an important transfer in.

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Every one of those players who transferred probably wanted more playing time is my guess. With Saballys sister and that Notre Dame transfer, former Kentucky Gatorade POY Boley and a freshmen point guard Arizona Gatorade POY in Chavez at Oregon next year those bench players may have seen it coming. Kids want to play.

In our own situation, we have gone from a shortage of guards to now a shortage of front-line players. When something like that happens, whatever you are doing looks like it is not working.

annarborbear said:

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In our own situation, we have gone from a shortage of guards to now a shortage of front-line players. When something like that happens, whatever you are doing looks like it is not working.

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This, to a point, I agree with. If Cal stumbles back into the pack this year, and the recruiting is not dazzling, then there are clearly issues that need to be addressed.

But to take the point about volunteer coaches (hyperbole, of course, but cheaper coaches nonetheless), the head coach still needs to be able to a) attract the players that are available, b) help them improve, c) create a team-focused environment and d) coach well in games and practices. These are not simple tasks, and it's far from an exhaustive list of what a P5 head coach must do, and as in any profession, you are much more likely to get quality employees if your pay scale is at the upper end.

But then the question comes, is Lindsay earning her money? Is she attracting most of the players available to her? Does she help them improve once they arrive? Is there a team atmosphere? Is the team well-coached?

To take those in order, I would say that as far as I can tell, she's doing reasonably well in getting the players available to her. She's missed out on some locals by getting in the game late, but she wasn't the only one ... and nobody is perfect at this part of it.

But to me, the more serious questions revolve around what happens once the talent arrives. I'm not there at practice, I don't know the kids, etc., so all I can see is what everyone else sees, and it does seem the whole is somewhat less than the sum of its parts. Not a lot less, let me emphasize, but given the competition in the Pac-12, no potential advantages can remain undeveloped.

I'm hopeful that Lindsay can make it happen, and hopeful that the culture will change, but this is a business decided by the scoreboard, so hope can only go so far.

One step forward in accountability for the resources provided would be to release a list of all of the scholarship offers that have been made, as is done in football and men's basketball. Hopefully, this list will at least not be kept private from the new Athletic Director, who will need to look at the results as part of his own evaluation of the program.

Why are the basketball recruiting offers not made known ?

ClayK said:

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annarborbear said:

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In our own situation, we have gone from a shortage of guards to now a shortage of front-line players. When something like that happens, whatever you are doing looks like it is not working.

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This, to a point, I agree with. If Cal stumbles back into the pack this year, and the recruiting is not dazzling, then there are clearly issues that need to be addressed.

But to take the point about volunteer coaches (hyperbole, of course, but cheaper coaches nonetheless), the head coach still needs to be able to a) attract the players that are available, b) help them improve, c) create a team-focused environment and d) coach well in games and practices. These are not simple tasks, and it's far from an exhaustive list of what a P5 head coach must do, and as in any profession, you are much more likely to get quality employees if your pay scale is at the upper end.

But then the question comes, is Lindsay earning her money? Is she attracting most of the players available to her? Does she help them improve once they arrive? Is there a team atmosphere? Is the team well-coached?

To take those in order, I would say that as far as I can tell, she's doing reasonably well in getting the players available to her. She's missed out on some locals by getting in the game late, but she wasn't the only one ... and nobody is perfect at this part of it.

But to me, the more serious questions revolve around what happens once the talent arrives. I'm not there at practice, I don't know the kids, etc., so all I can see is what everyone else sees, and it does seem the whole is somewhat less than the sum of its parts. Not a lot less, let me emphasize, but given the competition in the Pac-12, no potential advantages can remain undeveloped.

I'm hopeful that Lindsay can make it happen, and hopeful that the culture will change, but this is a business decided by the scoreboard, so hope can only go so far.

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Very PC. I believe your answers to your own questions are: no, probably, no, no, no. If so, I believe most will agree with you.

Some may disagree on the question about team atmosphere. Some believe that the team atmosphere is good, but that is very deceptive. LG admitted two years ago that she lost the team and she nearly lost the team last year and this year as well. She plays favorites and that is very destructive.

I would love a new coaching staff at Cal. The lack of player development at Cal is painfully obvious. It would also be nice to feel like our game coaching can hang with the rest of the Pac 12. There are just so many good coaching staffs in this league but Cal is not one of them. As a season ticket holder and donor, I expect more from this program and our well compensated coaching staff. Some new coaching blood would be most welcome and encouraging! Just don't know if Cal politics will allow it to happen without something drastic like a team revolt.

I have the same feeling that the league is passing Cal by...Just a few years ago, the Bears were in the top half and competitive with everyone in the Pac 12. Now Cal cannot compete on a consistent basis with Oregon, Oregon State, ASU (swept us), UCLA or Stanford. Actually the Bears have played isolated good games vs the Bruins & the Cardinal. Last season Cal had a respectable season but the two prior seasons were abysmal and an embarrassment. Kristina Anigwe, Cal's All-American 6-4 post, graduates after next season so the Bears had better land a bigtime post player or at least Haley Jones. Otherwise, there's a high probability that Cal will tumble to the bottom of the heap quickly. GO BEARS!

I believe it is an issue that Cal has not been more successful having had Anigwe and the assembly of talent she's had around her. I don't see how that pattern will change in Kristine's senior season.

puget sound cal fan said:

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I believe it is an issue that Cal has not been more successful having had Anigwe and the assembly of talent she's had around her. I don't see how that pattern will change in Kristine's senior season.

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That was the general feeling I had when they went from 13-5 to 4-14. But they improved to 6-12 and now 11-7 so maybe there is hope. This year it seemed like the other players stepped up more when Anigwe was out (foul problems, suspension, injury). It would be nice if they were part of the regular offense when Anigwe is in.

GATC said:

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puget sound cal fan said:

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I believe it is an issue that Cal has not been more successful having had Anigwe and the assembly of talent she's had around her. I don't see how that pattern will change in Kristine's senior season.

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That was the general feeling I had when they went from 13-5 to 4-14. But they improved to 6-12 and now 11-7 so maybe there is hope. This year it seemed like the other players stepped up more when Anigwe was out (foul problems, suspension, injury). It would be nice if they were part of the regular offense when Anigwe is in.

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I think you'll see different dynamics this coming season with Mi'Cole Cayton and McKenzie Forbes added to the rotation. Hopefully they'll speed up the offense and fast break quite a bit more. I think CJ West has proven herself as has Kianna Smith. Alaysia Styles will need to step up and be more of a force on the court.

Guards and Wings are covered on the roster, I agree. The priority for the Bears should be reloading talent on the front court.

Schroeder71 said:

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I have the same feeling that the league is passing Cal by...Just a few years ago, the Bears were in the top half and competitive with everyone in the Pac 12. Now Cal cannot compete on a consistent basis with Oregon, Oregon State, ASU (swept us), UCLA or Stanford. Actually the Bears have played isolated good games vs the Bruins & the Cardinal. Last season Cal had a respectable season but the two prior seasons were abysmal and an embarrassment. Kristina Anigwe, Cal's All-American 6-4 post, graduates after next season so the Bears had better land a bigtime post player or at least Haley Jones. Otherwise, there's a high probability that Cal will tumble to the bottom of the heap quickly. GO BEARS!

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I've been thinking about your comments, GoCAL73's comments as well as ClayK's comments as I watched the Spring Game saturday. The "Spring Game" would have been more entertaining if it was played as a real game, but I could really appreciate what Wilcox is doing. He is developing a program with top notch assistants and staff, teaching relevant skills to the smallest details, and recruiting players with the attitude and drive and the love for football. He is developing a culture that has the right values and is team oriented. He is doing what I had hoped LG would do, As S71 says, the league is passing Cal by as other teams have hired good coaches.