Smart Move at Arizona

annarborbear
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I'm impressed with how the Arizona AD has structured the contract of Adia Barnes. Her five-year contract includes annual base pay of $235,000, with up to $100,000 in additional potential annual athletic performance bonuses (number of games won, etc.) and $22,000 in academic performance bonuses. In addition, Barnes future annual base pay can be increased by up to 15% per year, but only if she meets very high performance thresholds: 3% for a Conference Championship, 5% for a Sweet Sixteen, 8% for an Elite Eight, 10% for a Final Four, and 15% for a National Championship. Under this contract, Barnes will make approximately $400,000 if she wins a National Championship while also meeting academic performance standards. However, if she finishes 10th, she will get only $235,000.

When our new AD looks at the recruiting performance of coaches in the PAC12, Arizona also seems to be setting a new standard in that. While we have come empty on our own recent post recruits, Arizona's 2018 class includes three 4-5 star posts at 6'3", 6'4" and 6'6". They are also bringing in two other 4 star players (including the #7 wing in the country) as well as several transfers, including outstanding guard Aarion McDonald from Washington and Dominique McBryde, who was 14th in rebounding in the Big Ten as a sophomore at Purdue. (Per the Arizona fan board, at least two of Arizona's incoming top freshman post recruits also had Cal offers.)

In other recruiting news, Oregon State has added once again to its already sizeable front-line with a 2019 commitment from Taylor Jones, 6'3" post player from Texas and the ESPN #28th ranked player in the country. Stanford has also received a commitment from the #33 ranked player in the country, Francesca Belibi. Belibi is a 6'1" wing who is described by ESPN as super-athletic and who can dunk.

The recruiting stakes for 2019 are certainly rising, and we will really need to pick up a commitment from several top-rated post players this coming year.






SFCALBear72
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Well, she'll need to start producing on the court very soon. Entering her 3rd season at Arizona, Barnes is 20-40
(7-29 in conference play). Arizona finished 14-16 in the 2016-17 season largely because of Niya Butts' recruits (previous coach). Last season, the Wildcats were 6-24 (2-16 in conference).
annarborbear
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SFCALBear72 said:

Well, she'll need to start producing on the court very soon. Entering her 3rd season at Arizona, Barnes is 20-40
(7-29 in conference play). Arizona finished 14-16 in the 2016-17 season largely because of Niya Butts' recruits (previous coach). Last season, the Wildcats were 6-24 (2-16 in conference).
When you are taking over a disaster program, the record in the first two years is not very relevant. The name of the game is recruiting. Scott Rueck finished 10th and 11th in two of his first three years at Oregon State while he acquired the talent that he needed to develop to win. Barnes has a well-structured five year contract for that same reason.

Barnes was also asked in an interview if it was unfair to the existing players to bring in seven new talented people all at once. She said that you build a winning program by bringing in talent, and existing players have to up their own games in response.
stu
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annarborbear said:

When you are taking over a disaster program, the record in the first two years is not very relevant.

E.g. Cal men.
SFCALBear72
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annarborbear said:

SFCALBear72 said:

Well, she'll need to start producing on the court very soon. Entering her 3rd season at Arizona, Barnes is 20-40
(7-29 in conference play). Arizona finished 14-16 in the 2016-17 season largely because of Niya Butts' recruits (previous coach). Last season, the Wildcats were 6-24 (2-16 in conference).
When you are taking over a disaster program, the record in the first two years is not very relevant. The name of the game is recruiting. Scott Rueck finished 10th and 11th in two of his first three years at Oregon State while he acquired the talent that he needed to develop to win. Barnes has a well-structured five year contract for that same reason.

Barnes was also asked in an interview if it was unfair to the existing players to bring in seven new talented people all at once. She said that you build a winning program by bringing in talent, and existing players have to up their own games in response.
Sorry. I didn't realize you were now working PR for Arizona WBB. Hope you are happier supporting them than you are in "supporting" the Bears.
annarborbear
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SFCALBear72 said:

annarborbear said:

SFCALBear72 said:

Well, she'll need to start producing on the court very soon. Entering her 3rd season at Arizona, Barnes is 20-40
(7-29 in conference play). Arizona finished 14-16 in the 2016-17 season largely because of Niya Butts' recruits (previous coach). Last season, the Wildcats were 6-24 (2-16 in conference).
When you are taking over a disaster program, the record in the first two years is not very relevant. The name of the game is recruiting. Scott Rueck finished 10th and 11th in two of his first three years at Oregon State while he acquired the talent that he needed to develop to win. Barnes has a well-structured five year contract for that same reason.

Barnes was also asked in an interview if it was unfair to the existing players to bring in seven new talented people all at once. She said that you build a winning program by bringing in talent, and existing players have to up their own games in response.
Sorry. I didn't realize you were now working PR for Arizona WBB. Hope you are happier supporting them than you are in "supporting" the Bears.
When the league and its coaches up their games, we have to do the same. Two straight years without bringing in a post player is a recipe for heading down.

I also think that the fifth highest paid employee in the university should be subject to an incentive-based contract in order to earn that kind of money. A long-term guarantee without accountability for performance makes no sense.
SFCALBear72
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annarborbear said:

SFCALBear72 said:

annarborbear said:

SFCALBear72 said:

Well, she'll need to start producing on the court very soon. Entering her 3rd season at Arizona, Barnes is 20-40
(7-29 in conference play). Arizona finished 14-16 in the 2016-17 season largely because of Niya Butts' recruits (previous coach). Last season, the Wildcats were 6-24 (2-16 in conference).
When you are taking over a disaster program, the record in the first two years is not very relevant. The name of the game is recruiting. Scott Rueck finished 10th and 11th in two of his first three years at Oregon State while he acquired the talent that he needed to develop to win. Barnes has a well-structured five year contract for that same reason.

Barnes was also asked in an interview if it was unfair to the existing players to bring in seven new talented people all at once. She said that you build a winning program by bringing in talent, and existing players have to up their own games in response.
Sorry. I didn't realize you were now working PR for Arizona WBB. Hope you are happier supporting them than you are in "supporting" the Bears.
When the league and its coaches up their games, we have to do the same. Two straight years without bringing in a post player is a recipe for heading down.

I also think that the fifth highest paid employee in the university should be subject to an incentive-based contract in order to earn that kind of money. A long-term guarantee without accountability for performance makes no sense.
I'll wait until new AD Knowlton makes his assessment of the WBB program and its coaches before any further comments on the financial aspect.

So, if LG had brought in a post in the 2017 class, we'd have Anigwe, West, Yue and "unnamed post" on the bench. hmmmmmm. Would that have satisfied you? Or would the complaint then be that we needed more perimeter players (guards/wings)??

As you said, "the name of the game is recruiting". Let's wait to see what the 2019 class looks like. Shall we?
annarborbear
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I am also trusting Christ and Knowlton to make good fact-based decisions and to learn from mistakes of the past.

A good 17 post would have had plenty of minutes given Kristine's injuries, fouls and other problems. Our coaches also saw the need for posts in the current class, making offers to some of the same players that Arizona did. They just couldn't land them - which is what they do get paid for.
socaliganbear
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Prediction: If they win big, all this structure goes out the window and they pay well beyond the parameters of the contract to keep her. HC contracts don't really matter.

It's silly to think that she will make 400k a season after winning a National Championship.
SFCALBear72
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annarborbear said:

I am also trusting Christ and Knowlton to make good fact-based decisions and to learn from mistakes of the past.

A good 17 post would have had plenty of minutes given Kristine's injuries, fouls and other problems. Our coaches also saw the need for posts in the current class, making offers to some of the same players that Arizona did. They just couldn't land them - which is what they do get paid for.
Well, it also begs the question: what were these young women seeking in a college program? You'd think they'd be drawn to a winning program (Cal). Not necessarily. Maybe it was immediate and significant playing time which Arizona will likely give them as freshmen. Give these young women credit for having priorities...something a college coach can't often overcome without misleading them just to get them to sign.

You have this obsession with how they are being paid. Do you know what goes on behind the scenes in recruiting? Tough job.

I know that two Cal coaches were in Virginia on a recruiting trip about a month ago. I've no idea who they were looking at or talking to but I give them a lot of credit for the job they do. Tireless effort.
OBear073akaSMFan
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SFCALBear72 said:


I know that two Cal coaches were in Virginia on a recruiting trip about a month ago. I've no idea who they were looking at or talking to but I give them a lot of credit for the job they do. Tireless effort.
Could had been at the Boo Williams a Nike EYBL's tournament that was held on April 20-22 in Hampton, Virginia. My guess they were looking at many including Cal stars who was at the tournament.
SFCALBear72
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OBear073akaSMFan said:

SFCALBear72 said:


I know that two Cal coaches were in Virginia on a recruiting trip about a month ago. I've no idea who they were looking at or talking to but I give them a lot of credit for the job they do. Tireless effort.
Could had been at the Boo Williams a Nike EYBL's tournament that was held on April 20-22 in Hampton, Virginia. My guess they were looking at many including Cal stars who was at the tournament.
Thanks, OBear.
CalFanatic
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A class of Jackson, Osborne/Crocker, Fields and Miller would soothe some strong (and valid) nerves/anxiety on this board. Fingers crossed =)
SFCALBear72
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CalFanatic said:

A class of Jackson, Osborne/Crocker, Fields and Miller would soothe some strong (and valid) nerves/anxiety on this board. Fingers crossed =)
+1

How much drawing "power" do you think McKenzie Forbes has? In other words, her presence on the team makes recruits want to come play alongside her because they're familiar with her game, etc.? She just competed for a spot on USA Basketball U18 team over the weekend and was named an alternate.
ClayK
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Players look for a lot of things ...

Adia Barnes played overseas and in the WNBA and had a long broadcasting career, so she brings different perspective to the job, and along that line, has things to offer young players that other coaches don't. (For example, Barnes was Pac-12 Player of the Year as a power forward, but had to go overseas and transform her game to return to the WNBA as a small forward.)

Some players are happy to be on the bench on a winning team; some players are happy to start on a losing team. Some players love the idea of playing in a big conference; others like the idea of playing at a smaller school.

Recruiting, of course, relies a lot on charm -- and Barnes has that, by the way -- but also on realizing who you can get, and then going after them. For St. Mary's College, for example, to chase Angel Jackson would be a waste of effort for Paul Thomas; for LG, Jackson should be on the radar. But if it becomes clear that Jackson wants things that Cal can't offer (say, a serious shot at a national title, or a campus that's not crammed into urban life), then she has to cut bait and go after the next one on the list.

Of course, you never know ... and if Cal is in the hunt for Jackson, then effort must be expended. The worst thing is to be in the final three or two, and lose out for reasons beyond your control. And it happens all the time ...
OBear073akaSMFan
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ClayK said:


Of course, you never know ... and if Cal is in the hunt for Jackson, then effort must be expended. The worst thing is to be in the final three or two, and lose out for reasons beyond your control. And it happens all the time ...
That's why you need a plan B & C. We need to increase the pool size if A doesn't come through.
SFCALBear72
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There's a 6'5" freshman post at Long Beach State who's looking to transfer. Emma Merriweather from Buena Park. She was recruited by $C and Utah and others coming out of high school. She has a brother playing at Pacific.

She averaged 8.6 points and 6.4 rebounds per game last season. Also had 54 blocks. Long Beach State had a rough season. 8-23 (2-13 in conference).

Anybody familiar with her?
gipsonke
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Recruiting superstar April Phillips from LMU is now at Arizona, which should only bolster their future direction and success in the recruiting front.

She recruited my daughter and she's a fantastic lady who genuinely has a love for the student athletes as well as Women's basketball.
willtalk
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Granted various aspects of recruiting are out of a coaches control, but contracts given to coaches are. I believe that is what the main theme of this tread was supposed to be about. Recruiting was just a related side subject. The author of this thread was using Arizona as an example to how contracts can and should be structured as opposed to the one given to the Cal women's coach, that provided job security for the coach without conditions. The thread issue is related to contracts not the effectiveness of Cal womens recruiting.
ClayK
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If Adia Barnes wins a national title, she gets $400,000? When Kim Mulkey, Geno and others are guaranteed $1 million plus?

Of course, Arizona isn't going to win the national title, but lowballing coaches is not the way to build a successful program. You get what you pay for in almost every aspect of life, and though sometimes you can get lucky, hiring a new employee for less than the going rate in your industry generally means you're getting an employee who won't be as good as employees for other companies -- and having below-average employees is generally not a good way to grow a business.

My example would be Arizona's women's basketball, which has never paid the going rate for women's coaches, and has the record to show for it.
annarborbear
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iIf Mulkey and Geno start finishing 10th, 7th and 5th in their conferences, instead of contending for national championships, I doubt that they will be rewarded with lucrative, guaranteed long-term contract extensions. Especially if their fan attendance becomes average and their programs lose over $3 million per year. I will continue to advocate for establishing greater performance accountability for the University's fifth highest paid employee.
ClayK
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It will be interesting to see how Knowlton deals with women's basketball down the road.

I can't see him eating more than one year of LG's contract, which means she's here through 2019-20. I doubt he would even pay that much to have her not coach in 2021 unless the team completely collapses, which seems unlikely.

So there's really no way to hold her accountable until the end of the 2020 season, it seems to me -- and given that men's basketball needs some serious attention, and football is of course No. 1, I'm pretty sure she's going to have time to prove herself without too much pressure.
wbbilluminati
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deleted (wrong thread)
GATC
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annarborbear said:

iIf Mulkey and Geno start finishing 10th, 7th and 5th in their conferences, instead of contending for national championships, I doubt that they will be rewarded with lucrative, guaranteed long-term contract extensions. Especially if their fan attendance becomes average and their programs lose over $3 million per year. I will continue to advocate for establishing greater performance accountability for the University's fifth highest paid employee.
It is amazing to think that LG is just starting her 3 year contract extension that she got 2 years ago.

I think some people were upset when LG getting a lucrative contract extension because the team was coming off the worst season in recent memory (4-14, 10th in conference and 1 win above last place) and there was 2 seasons remaining on her contract.

Months before LG got her extension Mike gave Sonny Dykes an extension for a few years to help recruiting and it had a rollover clause that would extend automatically if the team wins at least 7 games and had an APR >980. Presumably Mike gave LG an extension as a vote of confidence and to help recruiting after the disastrous year.

As far a the financials, I thought Women's Basketball lost around $1M a few years ago and had the biggest loss of any department. Since revenues probably hasn't changed it appears that expenses have.

I hope that this season is as good as some people here think. We need a good season to help recruiting.


annarborbear
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I doubt that Mike Williams came up with the contract extension idea on his own, especially including a large guaranteed salary increase. LG and her agent no doubt came up with it, and Williams went along.

The appropriate response, particularly at a public institution, should have been: "$700 grand a year sounds great, but I have to tie it to a top three finish each year, both on the floor and in recruiting. And if you win a national championship, we'll bump it to $1 million and build a statue of you outside of Haas. However, if you finish seventh or fifth, there has to be a substantial reduction at risk, and I also need an option to cancel the extension if performance continues to fall short".

If LG chose to leave instead, we could have hired a young coach like Barnes at Arizona, and ended up with pretty much the same results we have seen since. Or LG could have risen to the challenge, and accepted the accountability.
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