DiabloWags said:

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McKeever's attorney plays the gender bias "victim" card.

https://www.ocregister.com/2022/06/25/attorney-alleges-uc-berkeley-coach-teri-mckeever-is-the-victim-of-gender-bias

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More importantly, the attorney makes the case for hostile environment condoned, i.e., Cal top brass had to know adn did nothing.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/06/25/attorney-alleges-uc-berkeley-coach-teri-mckeever-is-the-victim-of-gender-bias/

Polodad said:

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The strategies are getting more clear. The U is trying to minimize the cost to extricate and Teri is trying to maximize the cost to the U to end her tenure.

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Yup.

And at the end of the day there will not be a Women's Cal Swimming Program left.
Everyone will have hit the transfer portal.
This wont help Title IX compliance.

Polodad said:

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The strategies are getting more clear. The U is trying to minimize the cost to extricate and Teri is trying to maximize the cost to the U to end her tenure.

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Negotiate a settlement, pay it out, and move on.

dimitrig said:

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Polodad said:

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The strategies are getting more clear. The U is trying to minimize the cost to extricate and Teri is trying to maximize the cost to the U to end her tenure.

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Negotiate a settlement, pay it out, and move on.

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I would agree with you.

Unfortunately, given that there are Cal Athletic Staff involved in the allegations made by Cal Women's Swimmers, the investigation will continue by Munger, Tolles, & Tolles, SafeSport, and the University of California. Sadly, this is in damage control mode and the Cal Women's Swimming program has literally become collateral damage. It's twisting in the wind and more and more Cal swimmers are hitting the transfer portal.

stu said:

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If this drags on as long as the Yanni Hufnagel thing did with men's basketball it could take the whole program down. But as before we'd still have the A.D. who failed to deal with it.

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True.
And as I recall, that UC investigation took 7 months.

DiabloWags said:

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Polodad said:

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The strategies are getting more clear. The U is trying to minimize the cost to extricate and Teri is trying to maximize the cost to the U to end her tenure.

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Yup.



And at the end of the day there will not be a Women's Cal Swimming Program left.
Everyone will have hit the transfer portal.
This wont help Title IX compliance.

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I hope this isn't true. Competent management is needed right away.

DiabloWags said:

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stu said:

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If this drags on as long as the Yanni Hufnagel thing did with men's basketball it could take the whole program down. But as before we'd still have the A.D. who failed to deal with it.

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True.
And as I recall, that UC investigation took 7 months.

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That was with Mike Williams, I believe. You may not like Knowlton, but Williams was horrible-much, much worse than Knowlton on his best day.

coachdeke said:

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DiabloWags said:

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stu said:

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If this drags on as long as the Yanni Hufnagel thing did with men's basketball it could take the whole program down. But as before we'd still have the A.D. who failed to deal with it.

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True.
And as I recall, that UC investigation took 7 months.

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That was with Mike Williams, I believe. You may not like Knowlton, but Williams was horrible-much, much worse than Knowlton on his best day.

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I know who Mike Williams is.
He and I lived on the same all-male dorm floor in Ida Sproul our freshman year.

calumnus said:

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Polodad said:

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The strategies are getting more clear. The U is trying to minimize the cost to extricate and Teri is trying to maximize the cost to the U to end her tenure.

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That lawyer is vile. He denies nothing but defends using racist slurs and attacks the victims. McKeever is going scorched earth and taking the Iniversity down with her.

If we had a competent AD, we could have bought out her contract for $500k when there was a hint of this and sent her into an "early retirement." Now Cal will end up spending $millions on this with continuing bad press for the remainder of the year and the women's swim program will be destroyed, with potential lawsuits from past swimmers.

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The lawyer is doing their job. If Cal poobahs knew McKeever was abusive and did nothing about it, they should had paid her off a long time ago to make this go away. (And no way, they'd settle for $500k.)

Cal could settle any day, it just takes a LOT of money.

DiabloWags said:

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coachdeke said:

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DiabloWags said:

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stu said:

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If this drags on as long as the Yanni Hufnagel thing did with men's basketball it could take the whole program down. But as before we'd still have the A.D. who failed to deal with it.

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True.
And as I recall, that UC investigation took 7 months.

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That was with Mike Williams, I believe. You may not like Knowlton, but Williams was horrible-much, much worse than Knowlton on his best day.

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I know who Mike Williams is.
He and I lived on the same all-male dorm floor in Ida Sproul our freshman year.

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coachdeke said:

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DiabloWags said:

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coachdeke said:

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DiabloWags said:

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stu said:

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If this drags on as long as the Yanni Hufnagel thing did with men's basketball it could take the whole program down. But as before we'd still have the A.D. who failed to deal with it.

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True.
And as I recall, that UC investigation took 7 months.

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That was with Mike Williams, I believe. You may not like Knowlton, but Williams was horrible-much, much worse than Knowlton on his best day.

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I know who Mike Williams is.
He and I lived on the same all-male dorm floor in Ida Sproul our freshman year.

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Super, we're the same year. I don't believe that was my point, I'm certainly glad you know who he is.

Big Dog said:

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The lawyer is doing their job. If Cal poobahs knew McKeever was abusive and did nothing about it, they should had paid her off a long time ago to make this go away. (And no way, they'd settle for $500k.)

Cal could settle any day, it just takes a LOT of money.

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This has already been discussed before on another thread in the growls forum.

Her contract does not entitle her to any BIG money, if the school decides to part ways with her.
She can be terminated without cause and her contract waives her right to a Skelly hearing.
The University is simply lining all of their ducks up in a row first, in typical traditional HR fashion.

You should also be aware of the fact that there is another investigating body involved called SafeSport.

SafeSport Investigating Teri McKeever After Abuse Allegations, per Report - Sports Illustrated

calumnus said:

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Big Dog said:

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calumnus said:

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Polodad said:

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The strategies are getting more clear. The U is trying to minimize the cost to extricate and Teri is trying to maximize the cost to the U to end her tenure.

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That lawyer is vile. He denies nothing but defends using racist slurs and attacks the victims. McKeever is going scorched earth and taking the Iniversity down with her.

If we had a competent AD, we could have bought out her contract for $500k when there was a hint of this and sent her into an "early retirement." Now Cal will end up spending $millions on this with continuing bad press for the remainder of the year and the women's swim program will be destroyed, with potential lawsuits from past swimmers.

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The lawyer is doing their job. If Cal poobahs knew McKeever was abusive and did nothing about it, they should had paid her off a long time ago to make this go away. (And no way, they'd settle for $500k.)

Cal could settle any day, it just takes a LOT of money.

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Why is McKeever entitled to more than Cal is obligated to pay her under her contract if fired without cause? Because she is allegedly abusive and racist she gets MORE money?

The big potential payouts are to the many swimmers who claim abuse, especially if Cal was negligent or worse, aware and complicit. I think that the lawyer is going scorched earth here, to get the $500k ASAP and avoid being fired for cause. Of course, maybe Cal overpays her, that would be typical, but would only anger the victims and open up Cal to more liability for the abuse.

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Go back and read your own earlier post.

Or read what calalumus posted: "Now Cal will end up spending $millions on this with continuing bad press for the remainder of the year and the women's swim program will be destroyed, with potential lawsuits from past swimmers."

To make this go away fast, it just cost money. Not saying its deserving but if you want fast to save the program -- and protect the not-so-innocent athletic department who enabled this abuse -- you gotta pay.

OTOH, drag out the investigation so Cal can fire for cause. MTO's fees will easily surpass a year or two of McKeever's salary. Recruits will go elsewhere. Current members will transfer.

It's was just that simple. Well actually, no longer simple since the claim is that the former Chancellor knew about this and did nothing so expect suits from former swimmers.

Big Dog said:

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To make this go away fast, it just cost money. Not saying its deserving but if you want fast to save the program -- and protect the not-so-innocent athletic department who enabled this abuse -- you gotta pay.

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That moment came and went awhile ago.

You must not have been paying attention to the transfer portal, where this program has already taken major body blows. Moreover, the interim head coach has literally no head coaching experience outside of one year at Dartmouth, during Covid.

Money is meaningless.
The damage has already been done.

Another recently former CAL female swimmer shares her experience with McKeever.

This time to Sports Illustrated.

Member of Cal women's swim team details Teri McKeever's 'abusive behavior' - Sports Illustrated

DiabloWags said:

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Another recently former CAL female swimmer shares her experience with McKeever.
This time to Sports Illustrated.

Member of Cal women's swim team details Teri McKeever's 'abusive behavior' - Sports Illustrated

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I either saw this essay posted elsewhere or somebody else had the identical take. This is a huge mess. I hope it gets resolved sooner rather than later for the program's sake.

There is no way McKeever comes back. The only way the U moved forward in any timeline that allows the swim program to begin to heal within 2 years is to negotiate a contract buyout and retirement within the next 3 months, do a national search and get a savior on board by December to start the rebuild with recruits hitting campus by Sept '23. I'll bet the Aquatics Fund principals will be pushing for that.

Hope so Polo Dad.

Once the season starts, I think it'll be difficult to get anyone that is currently coaching at the D1 college level to leave their school prior to NCAAs. So, April would be more realistic. Unless...they could get someone to coach temporarily - like Nort's son, Richard. That might be interesting.

IF we cannot get Carol Felton to return to Cal, I would LOVE it if we could get Pablo Morales. I thought he'd be the natural replacement for Richard Quick at Stanford. (Richard Quick = the former coach of Stanford women's swimming and diving team In other words, Pablo has coached college women since he began coaching at the college level.) But, this would be a way for Pablo to return to the Bay Area, and build a team from the bottom --> up - and that's something I think he may truly want to do. I mean, it's not THAT hard for a good coach to take over a top college program with the best swimmers in the country, and to be successful. However, I don't know how much gratification Pablo would get for doing something like that. (Maybe why he didn't return to Stanford when Quick left?) Whereas, if Pablo were to come coach the Bears, any future success the ladies experience would be directly attributable to his coaching. That's a challenge he may truly enjoy.

Plus, if Pablo were announced as the next Cal coach soon, I think there is a very good chance that several of the swimmers that have entered the portal may elect to stay at Cal.

SoCalie said:

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Once the season starts, I think it'll be difficult to get anyone that is currently coaching at the D1 college level to leave their school prior to NCAAs. So, April would be more realistic. Unless...they could get someone to coach temporarily - like Nort's son, Richard. That might be interesting.

IF we cannot get Carol Felton to return to Cal, I would LOVE it if we could get Pablo Morales. I thought he'd be the natural replacement for Richard Quick at Stanford. But, this would be a way for Pablo to return to the Bay Area, and build a team from the bottom --> up - and that's something I think he may truly want to do. I mean, it's not THAT hard for a good coach to take over a top college program with the best swimmers in the country, and to be successful. However, I don't know how much gratification Pablo would get for doing something like that. (Maybe why he didn't return to Stanford when Quick left?) Whereas, if Pablo were to come coach the Bears, any future success the ladies experience would be directly attributable to his coaching. That's a challenge he may truly enjoy.

Plus, if Pablo were announced as the next Cal coach soon, I think there is a very good chance that several of the swimmers that have entered the portal may elect to stay at Cal.

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No way Cal hires someone with xy chromosomes for this position.

A December hire would likely be the first asst at one of the top 5 programs, or an incredibly successful club coach. Not impossible at all.

I'm not so sure about the gender of the next coach. There are a lot of men successfully coaching women in this sport. Check out Stanford, Virginia, NC State. TMc was the exception among top programs in collegiate swimming.

Big Dog said:

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SoCalie said:

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Once the season starts, I think it'll be difficult to get anyone that is currently coaching at the D1 college level to leave their school prior to NCAAs. So, April would be more realistic. Unless...they could get someone to coach temporarily - like Nort's son, Richard. That might be interesting.

IF we cannot get Carol Felton to return to Cal, I would LOVE it if we could get Pablo Morales. I thought he'd be the natural replacement for Richard Quick at Stanford. But, this would be a way for Pablo to return to the Bay Area, and build a team from the bottom --> up - and that's something I think he may truly want to do. I mean, it's not THAT hard for a good coach to take over a top college program with the best swimmers in the country, and to be successful. However, I don't know how much gratification Pablo would get for doing something like that. (Maybe why he didn't return to Stanford when Quick left?) Whereas, if Pablo were to come coach the Bears, any future success the ladies experience would be directly attributable to his coaching. That's a challenge he may truly enjoy.

Plus, if Pablo were announced as the next Cal coach soon, I think there is a very good chance that several of the swimmers that have entered the portal may elect to stay at Cal.

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No way Cal hires someone with xy chromosomes for this position.

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Are you saying that with inside perspective or just an opinion regarding how Cal athletics operates?

coachdeke said:

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Big Dog said:

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SoCalie said:

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Once the season starts, I think it'll be difficult to get anyone that is currently coaching at the D1 college level to leave their school prior to NCAAs. So, April would be more realistic. Unless...they could get someone to coach temporarily - like Nort's son, Richard. That might be interesting.

IF we cannot get Carol Felton to return to Cal, I would LOVE it if we could get Pablo Morales. I thought he'd be the natural replacement for Richard Quick at Stanford. But, this would be a way for Pablo to return to the Bay Area, and build a team from the bottom --> up - and that's something I think he may truly want to do. I mean, it's not THAT hard for a good coach to take over a top college program with the best swimmers in the country, and to be successful. However, I don't know how much gratification Pablo would get for doing something like that. (Maybe why he didn't return to Stanford when Quick left?) Whereas, if Pablo were to come coach the Bears, any future success the ladies experience would be directly attributable to his coaching. That's a challenge he may truly enjoy.

Plus, if Pablo were announced as the next Cal coach soon, I think there is a very good chance that several of the swimmers that have entered the portal may elect to stay at Cal.

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No way Cal hires someone with xy chromosomes for this position.

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Are you saying that with inside perspective or just an opinion regarding how Cal athletics operates?

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No, no inside info. Just observant of current trends; diversity is the name of the game in higher ed today, and replacing a female coach with a guy makes no sense.

Big Dog said:

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SoCalie said:

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Once the season starts, I think it'll be difficult to get anyone that is currently coaching at the D1 college level to leave their school prior to NCAAs. So, April would be more realistic. Unless...they could get someone to coach temporarily - like Nort's son, Richard. That might be interesting.

IF we cannot get Carol Felton to return to Cal, I would LOVE it if we could get Pablo Morales. I thought he'd be the natural replacement for Richard Quick at Stanford. But, this would be a way for Pablo to return to the Bay Area, and build a team from the bottom --> up - and that's something I think he may truly want to do. I mean, it's not THAT hard for a good coach to take over a top college program with the best swimmers in the country, and to be successful. However, I don't know how much gratification Pablo would get for doing something like that. (Maybe why he didn't return to Stanford when Quick left?) Whereas, if Pablo were to come coach the Bears, any future success the ladies experience would be directly attributable to his coaching. That's a challenge he may truly enjoy.

Plus, if Pablo were announced as the next Cal coach soon, I think there is a very good chance that several of the swimmers that have entered the portal may elect to stay at Cal.

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No way Cal hires someone with xy chromosomes for this position.

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What if we hire a female for Men's hoop coach to balance it out?

Ccajon2 said:

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Big Dog said:

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SoCalie said:

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Once the season starts, I think it'll be difficult to get anyone that is currently coaching at the D1 college level to leave their school prior to NCAAs. So, April would be more realistic. Unless...they could get someone to coach temporarily - like Nort's son, Richard. That might be interesting.

IF we cannot get Carol Felton to return to Cal, I would LOVE it if we could get Pablo Morales. I thought he'd be the natural replacement for Richard Quick at Stanford. But, this would be a way for Pablo to return to the Bay Area, and build a team from the bottom --> up - and that's something I think he may truly want to do. I mean, it's not THAT hard for a good coach to take over a top college program with the best swimmers in the country, and to be successful. However, I don't know how much gratification Pablo would get for doing something like that. (Maybe why he didn't return to Stanford when Quick left?) Whereas, if Pablo were to come coach the Bears, any future success the ladies experience would be directly attributable to his coaching. That's a challenge he may truly enjoy.

Plus, if Pablo were announced as the next Cal coach soon, I think there is a very good chance that several of the swimmers that have entered the portal may elect to stay at Cal.

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No way Cal hires someone with xy chromosomes for this position.

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What if we hire a female for Men's hoop coach to balance it out?

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I'm all for it. Anyone but the current coach.

Ccajon2 said:

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What if we hire a female for Men's hoop coach to balance it out?

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Please!

I think Cal will (or should) hire the best coach out there, and someone with the pedigree and name recognition to retain some of the swimmers that are currently in the portal, recruit top age group swimmers and return the team to the top 3, year in and year out. THAT is Pablo. Carol would be my first choice. But, if she turns the job down, it'd be Pablo next. And, I don't think that gender will, or should, have anything to do with it. (Besides, there are far more male swim coaches out there than female.)

SoCalie said:

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I think Cal will (or should) hire the best coach out there, and someone with the pedigree and name recognition to retain some of the swimmers that are currently in the portal, recruit top age group swimmers and return the team to the top 3, year in and year out. THAT is Pablo. Carol would be my first choice. But, if she turns the job down, it'd be Pablo next. And, I don't think that gender will, or should, have anything to do with it. (Besides, there are far more male swim coaches out there than female.)

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This may be moot. With the Pac blowing up, all sports may look different tomorrow, and teh money to pay a name coach may no longer be there. In fact, the Pac may no longer be a Power conference after midnight. And there goes the big bucks.

December is in the middle to the season for both college and USS swimming.

As for College --> December - the middle of the season, only months away from Pac-12s and NCAAs - would be a very strange time for the Cal team to all of the sudden get a new coach. It's just not the time to bring in someone new. There are too many adjustments that the swimmers would need to make, and the potential downside of the timing is much greater than any potential upside. It's just not something a swim team would do. You bring in the new coach for the start of the new season, in the fall - - or, after NCAA's, in April (which is, technically, the start of the next/long course season.)

Similarly, if Cal wants to bring in a top USS coach, they could, and should, do so this fall. December/the middle of the USS season would also be a very strange time for a USS coach to leave their team, as well. August/early September, prior to the start of the next USS season, OR in the spring (after the spring USS championship meets) would be ideal for a USS coach, as well.

The timing of the seasons are the same for college teams and USS teams.

I could see Cal hiring a local USS coach to sort of help 'shepherd' the team until they hire the permanent coach. In that case, I'd imagine Nort's son would be very high on their list of candidates. And, he could coach the Cal women and still coach his USS group later in the afternoon.

Of course, this is assuming the university wants to minimize the damage to the women's team, and get them back to the top 5 asap.

Otherwise, it wouldn't matter who they hire.

Big Dog said:

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SoCalie said:

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I think Cal will (or should) hire the best coach out there, and someone with the pedigree and name recognition to retain some of the swimmers that are currently in the portal, recruit top age group swimmers and return the team to the top 3, year in and year out. THAT is Pablo. Carol would be my first choice. But, if she turns the job down, it'd be Pablo next. And, I don't think that gender will, or should, have anything to do with it. (Besides, there are far more male swim coaches out there than female.)

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This may be moot. With the Pac blowing up, all sports may look different tomorrow, and teh money to pay a name coach may no longer be there. In fact, the Pac may no longer be a Power conference after midnight. And there goes the big bucks.

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I'm pretty sure all aquatics are self-sustaining at this point.