George Floyd - Chauvin TRIAL

13,259 Views | 122 Replies | Last: 12 mo ago by calbear93
LMK5
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dajo9 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.
Not in light of the video evidence. Watch it a few more times and let it sink in. Chauvin never checks on him. He's just hanging out there.
Once Floyd goes limp under him, he turns his attention to the crowd.
It finally ends when the EMT guy asks him to get off so he can take him away.
I can't imagine Chauvin would knowingly kill him like that, so I simply cannot fathom what happened in his mind. It simply clicked off for him. He ran a red light without seeing it, t-boned someone in the intersection. Ooops.
Except this is worse. People drive subconsciously ALL THE TIME.
We don't subconsciously arrest people. Or if he does, well... I just cannot fathom what happened in his brain. He F'd up big time and is going to jail as a result.


You give Chauvin a lot of leeway. When I see the video I see a power tripping cold blooded mentally present murderer.
In the video, it almost looks as if Chauvin keeps his knee on his neck because of the spectators.
The truth lies somewhere between CNN and Fox.
concordtom
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dajo9 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.
Not in light of the video evidence. Watch it a few more times and let it sink in. Chauvin never checks on him. He's just hanging out there.
Once Floyd goes limp under him, he turns his attention to the crowd.
It finally ends when the EMT guy asks him to get off so he can take him away.
I can't imagine Chauvin would knowingly kill him like that, so I simply cannot fathom what happened in his mind. It simply clicked off for him. He ran a red light without seeing it, t-boned someone in the intersection. Ooops.
Except this is worse. People drive subconsciously ALL THE TIME.
We don't subconsciously arrest people. Or if he does, well... I just cannot fathom what happened in his brain. He F'd up big time and is going to jail as a result.


You give Chauvin a lot of leeway. When I see the video I see a power tripping cold blooded mentally present murderer.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Trying to give him as much leeway as possible to come up with some rationalization of what happened.
The knee jerk reaction would be to throw him to the will of the mob, where he'd be torn apart like the Stanford tree at a halftime show in memorial stadium.
dajo9
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concordtom said:

dajo9 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.
Not in light of the video evidence. Watch it a few more times and let it sink in. Chauvin never checks on him. He's just hanging out there.
Once Floyd goes limp under him, he turns his attention to the crowd.
It finally ends when the EMT guy asks him to get off so he can take him away.
I can't imagine Chauvin would knowingly kill him like that, so I simply cannot fathom what happened in his mind. It simply clicked off for him. He ran a red light without seeing it, t-boned someone in the intersection. Ooops.
Except this is worse. People drive subconsciously ALL THE TIME.
We don't subconsciously arrest people. Or if he does, well... I just cannot fathom what happened in his brain. He F'd up big time and is going to jail as a result.


You give Chauvin a lot of leeway. When I see the video I see a power tripping cold blooded mentally present murderer.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Trying to give him as much leeway as possible to come up with some rationalization of what happened.
The knee jerk reaction would be to throw him to the will of the mob, where he'd be torn apart like the Stanford tree at a halftime show in memorial stadium.
My father was a criminal defense attorney. I asked him one time about systemic racism in the judicial system. He said, of course it's there. He would almost always get better plea offers from the prosecution for his white clients than his black clients because the assumption for white people was that it was a good person who got mixed up in a bad situation. He said, as a criminal defense attorney, "What am I supposed to do? Turn down a good offer for my white clients because it's not fair to my black clients?"
dajo9
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LMK5 said:

dajo9 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.
Not in light of the video evidence. Watch it a few more times and let it sink in. Chauvin never checks on him. He's just hanging out there.
Once Floyd goes limp under him, he turns his attention to the crowd.
It finally ends when the EMT guy asks him to get off so he can take him away.
I can't imagine Chauvin would knowingly kill him like that, so I simply cannot fathom what happened in his mind. It simply clicked off for him. He ran a red light without seeing it, t-boned someone in the intersection. Ooops.
Except this is worse. People drive subconsciously ALL THE TIME.
We don't subconsciously arrest people. Or if he does, well... I just cannot fathom what happened in his brain. He F'd up big time and is going to jail as a result.


You give Chauvin a lot of leeway. When I see the video I see a power tripping cold blooded mentally present murderer.
In the video, it almost looks as if Chauvin keeps his knee on his neck because of the spectators.
That part of it would fall under the power tripping category
concordtom
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dajo9 said:

concordtom said:

dajo9 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.
Not in light of the video evidence. Watch it a few more times and let it sink in. Chauvin never checks on him. He's just hanging out there.
Once Floyd goes limp under him, he turns his attention to the crowd.
It finally ends when the EMT guy asks him to get off so he can take him away.
I can't imagine Chauvin would knowingly kill him like that, so I simply cannot fathom what happened in his mind. It simply clicked off for him. He ran a red light without seeing it, t-boned someone in the intersection. Ooops.
Except this is worse. People drive subconsciously ALL THE TIME.
We don't subconsciously arrest people. Or if he does, well... I just cannot fathom what happened in his brain. He F'd up big time and is going to jail as a result.


You give Chauvin a lot of leeway. When I see the video I see a power tripping cold blooded mentally present murderer.


That's exactly what I'm doing. Trying to give him as much leeway as possible to come up with some rationalization of what happened.
The knee jerk reaction would be to throw him to the will of the mob, where he'd be torn apart like the Stanford tree at a halftime show in memorial stadium.
My father was a criminal defense attorney. I asked him one time about systemic racism in the judicial system. He said, of course it's there. He would almost always get better plea offers from the prosecution for his white clients than his black clients because the assumption for white people was that it was a good person who got mixed up in a bad situation. He said, as a criminal defense attorney, "What am I supposed to do? Turn down a good offer for my white clients because it's not fair to my black clients?"



I hear ya.
If it was a black officer in uniform that did that to a white drug addict, I'd have the same response. I just can't fathom how people can be so cold to other humans.

But the story you tell us clear. We are quick to judge a black street criminal. Super-predators was a common and uncontroversial concept. We'd see the murder statistics in DC, Chicago, and watch cop shows on TV of good guys chasing bad guys.

I was texting my Trump loving cousin in TX this morning, telling him my hope for all this change coming to America. Social justice is still coming. As it always has been. I sent him Bob Dylan's song, which has to be the best worst song of all time.





HOPE.

concordtom
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I've begun watching this morning's trial from the YouTubeTV DVR (abcnews channel, since someone previously asked).

They have a worldwide lung specialist expert witness.
He is explaining how we breathe, physiologically - the muscles that expand the chest, the various airways, the effect of Chauvin and the 2nd cop pressing him into the pavement, the effect of arms behind back and pressed in toward the small of his back on his ability to breathe.

OMG. This is devastating for Chauvin.

I was driving around earlier and listening to Tom Sullivan on the radio. He's a conservative radio host.
He said he believed Chauvin used excessive force, but then his show veered into the possibility that just 1 juror might say "well, I don't know - he used drugs...". Sullivan seemed to get excited that the prosecution "made a HUGE mistake yesterday" regarding the introduction of drug use evidence yesterday. I was pissed. Like, you KNOW/BELIEVE Chauvin killed him, but you are going to cheer for a mistrial based on just 1 juror who has become confused. What a jerk. Typical conservative POS.

Well, to Tom Sullivan I say: "Tom, listen to the lung specialist, and then tell me if you are STILL going to spend the entirety of your show getting listeners to consider Floyd's criminal and unhealthy drug use."

Sullivan isn't doing the society any favors.

The jury is going to find Chauvin guilty!
BearlyCareAnymore
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hanky1 said:

OaktownBear said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.


No it doesn't

If 1 guy shoots a guy in the head, and a millisecond before he takes his dying breath another guy shoots him again killing him, the second is guilty of murder.

Even if drugs contributed to death, or a heart condition or any thing else, you take your victim as you find them.

Many people have been convicted of murder when people have had a heart attack during a robbery. You commit a crime you are responsible for the consequences.


What has anyone done or said to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Floyd died from Chauvin's knee rather than the lethal dose of Speedball he had flowing through his veins ?


Testimony from doctor today:

He identified four main reasons why Floyd died: the handcuffs and the street acting as a "vise;" Chauvin's left knee on his neck; Floyd's prone position; and Chauvin's right knee on Floyd's back, arm and side. Combined, these limited Floyd's ability to expand his lungs and narrowed his hypopharynx, a part of the throat that air passes through.
Floyd's preexisting health conditions and drug use were not relevant to his death, Tobin said.
"A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died," he said.



okaydo
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SBGold
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There are not though per the medical expert
concordtom
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OaktownBear said:

hanky1 said:

OaktownBear said:

hanky1 said:

concordtom said:

hanky1 said:

He had a lethal dose of Speedball mixture in him per the coroner.

Floyd would be alive if not for the drugs.

Floyd would also be alive if the cop didn't kneel on him.

Both statements can be true.
But which was more causative?
No doubt in my mind, Chauvin bears the vast majority of blame. No question.


You are probably right, but the standard is reasonable doubt. Do the drugs create reasonable doubt? Probably.


No it doesn't

If 1 guy shoots a guy in the head, and a millisecond before he takes his dying breath another guy shoots him again killing him, the second is guilty of murder.

Even if drugs contributed to death, or a heart condition or any thing else, you take your victim as you find them.

Many people have been convicted of murder when people have had a heart attack during a robbery. You commit a crime you are responsible for the consequences.


What has anyone done or said to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Floyd died from Chauvin's knee rather than the lethal dose of Speedball he had flowing through his veins ?


Testimony from doctor today:

He identified four main reasons why Floyd died: the handcuffs and the street acting as a "vise;" Chauvin's left knee on his neck; Floyd's prone position; and Chauvin's right knee on Floyd's back, arm and side. Combined, these limited Floyd's ability to expand his lungs and narrowed his hypopharynx, a part of the throat that air passes through.
Floyd's preexisting health conditions and drug use were not relevant to his death, Tobin said.
"A healthy person subjected to what Mr. Floyd was subjected to would have died," he said.






Bingo!
The explanation of effect of body weight crushing down making it hard to catch a breath was quite clear to me.

Have you ever scored a game winning soccer goal late in a playoff game and been mobbed by a dog pile of 20 fraternity brothers in celebration? I have!! It was glorious for about 10 seconds, but quickly ended with "I can't breathe!" The weight was crushing me, and I was reminded of that listening to him explain how the chest needs to expand to get air in.

I'm now listening to defense attorney try and put Floyd's clogged arteries on trial. Thankfully, he's moved on to new areas (drugs) to put those things on trial. I'm hoping the lung doctor will shoot that angle down just as quickly.

The longer this trial goes on, the more incensed I become.

Plus, I just saw video of a black man who was taking out the trash at his home in LA was approached and suddenly arrested.

White people like me have gone through decades of life having no clue. Amen for becoming aware.
concordtom
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I love this guy's Q&A demeanor, flow, smile:



His pace, the way he forms the questions is like he's talking to the jury and saying:
"I'm going to take you on a journey along this trail. Follow me."
LMK5
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What is the demographic makeup of the jury?
The truth lies somewhere between CNN and Fox.
bearister
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LMK5 said:

What is the demographic makeup of the jury?


I'm only concerned about the common sense makeup. No intent to kill required in any of the counts charged. Chauvin is a bad cop that was on a track to end up like this. He better go down.*


*He was bat guano crazy as a bouncer too. I observed an OPD psycho cop once and predicted his destiny. He murdered his wife. Life in prison.
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bearister
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Chauvin trial leaves cities across America on edge - Axios


https://www.axios.com/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-cities-reaction-637ac89a-dd5b-45a5-8f1b-cfc87e97aa34.html
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BearForce2
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concordtom
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Closing arguments.

This Defense Attorney sucks.
If I'm representative of the jury today - paying attention to prosecutor and zzzzzz to the defense.

Chauvin is going down.
concordtom
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I've joked in the past how my high school papers used to be double spaced with large handwriting. This had the effect of making it look like I was writing more than I was.

This defense closing argument reminds me of that.
Saying of bunch of blather.
My worst college classroom lecturers were like this. ZZZZZZZZ.

Not cogent. Just words.
concordtom
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concordtom
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Chauvin faces three charges:
1) second-degree unintentional murder,
2) third-degree murder and
3) second-degree manslaughter. Here's what you need to know about the charges and what prosecutors must prove in order to convict Chauvin.



1) What is second-degree unintentional murder?

For a conviction of second-degree unintentional murder, the state's prosecutors will have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him. This is the most serious charge and carries a presumed sentence in this case of 10 34 years to 15 years, according to state sentencing guidelines.

The cause of Floyd's death is likely to be a major focus of the trial. Expect the defense to question Floyd's overall health and try to claim that he was already compromised before Chauvin put his knee on his neck. Prosecutors are likely to assert that Floyd would still be alive if the former officer hadn't pinned his neck to the ground for about nine minutes. There will almost certainly be much discussion about Floyd's drug use and underlying health conditions.

What will not be an issue: whether Chauvin intended to kill Floyd. None of the charges require prosecutors to prove the former officer was trying to kill him.


2) What is third-degree murder?

Initially, Chauvin faced an additional charge of third-degree murder, but Cahill dismissed that charge and denied a request from the prosecution to reinstate it. The Minnesota Court of Appeals ruled Friday that the judge was wrong to refuse reinstating the third-degree murder charge and sent the case back to Cahill for consideration. After the Minnesota Supreme Court declined to consider an appeal from the defense, Cahill reinstated the charge Thursday. It also carries a presumptive sentence in this case of 10 34 years to 15 years, according to state sentencing guidelines.

Third-degree murder requires prosecutors to prove that someone caused the death of another "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." Legal experts note that the definition of "depraved mind" is murky as is the legal line between "depraved mind" and the "culpable negligence" standard for manslaughter.

Historically, third-degree murder has been used to prosecute drug dealers who sold deadly products but weren't planning to kill specific individuals. But in 2019, former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor was convicted of third-degree murder in the death of Justine Ruszczyk Damond after she called 911 to report a possible sexual assault in progress in the alley near her house. Noor fatally shot Damond from the passenger seat of a squad car, firing across his partner, who had been driving. The state Court of Appeals narrowly upheld his conviction, and the state Supreme Court will hear the case in June. Noor is currently serving a 10-year sentence. He is the only police officer ever to be convicted of murder for an on-duty incident in Minnesota.

Explaining his decision to reinstate the third-degree murder charge Thursday, Cahill noted that the Noor ruling established a legal precedent that "murder in the third degree applies even if the person's intent and acts are directed at a single person," and therefore the charge could be applicable to the Chauvin case.


3) What is second-degree manslaughter?

In order to convict Chauvin of second-degree manslaughter, prosecutors will need to show beyond a reasonable doubt that he was "culpably negligent" and took an "unreasonable risk" with Floyd's life when he restrained him and that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great harm. Prosecutors do not have to prove that Chauvin's actions intended to cause Floyd's death, only that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great bodily harm. This charge carries a presumptive sentence of 41-57 months.

What protections do police officers have related to use of force while on duty?
Jurors have to determine only whether Chauvin is guilty or not guilty on the two charges filed against him. But during the trial, jurors will hear about special protections state law gives to police officers, allowing them to use force that a "reasonable peace officer in the same situation would believe to be necessary." The state will have to prove that the force Chauvin used was unreasonable under the circumstances.

Under state law, police officers can use deadly force in the line of duty in several circumstances: if it is necessary to protect the officer or another from death or great bodily harm; or to capture or arrest someone the officer believes committed a felony while using or threatening force; or to arrest someone who has committed a felony and is at risk of causing death or great bodily harm to others.



(What charges are the other officers present during Floyd's death facing?
Three other Minneapolis officers who were present during the encounter with Floyd J. Alexander Kueng, Thomas Lane and Tou Thao each face two charges: aiding and abetting both second-degree unintentional murder and second-degree manslaughter. On those charges, prosecutors will need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the three intentionally aided, advised, hired, counseled or conspired with Chauvin. If prosecutors fail to convict Chauvin, the case against the other officers becomes tougher to prove.)
BearForce2
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Laura Coates (CNN legal analyst)
concordtom
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BearForce2 said:



Laura Coates (CNN legal analyst)
Well, yeah. She's right.
It's been a disaster for Chauvin.
(Maybe you haven't been watching and just want to try and rip on anything CNN.)
bearister
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The basic defense approach: When you can't justify the killing just claim your client didn't kill him.
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bearister
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Question: Is Libby Schaaf telling the OPD to stand down as White Black Bloc practitioners openly hammer out windows of businesses (many of them Black owned) and squirt and light accelerant....or is it the OPD choosing to stand down?

Windows smashed, fires set and no arrests following Oakland protest against police brutality


https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/Windows-smashed-fires-set-and-no-arrests-16108877.php
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfchronicle.com/local/amp/Windows-smashed-fires-set-and-no-arrests-16108877.php
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BearForce2
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BearForce2
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BearForce2
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cbbass1
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BearForce2 said:


IF Chauvin's conviction is overturned on appeal, then clearly ANY conviction (or acquittal) that was commented on by ANY public figure can be overturned on appeal as well.

Be careful what you wish for.
cbbass1
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BearForce2 said:


And the problem is....?

"Stay in the streets" = exercising 1st Amendment right to peacefully assemble for the redress of grievances

"Fighting for Justice" = This is a problem?? Who's against Justice?
concordtom
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Verdict has been reached. Will be read sometime between 1:30 and 2:30 PM today.
Not a hung jury.
He's going to be found guilty, will be carried away by the bailiff, and the defense team will say they are appealing based upon the Damned Democrats who biased the jury.

FoxNews will be blaming everything on Democrats.

Stay tuned for BearForce, Hanky, et al, to post those cranks here.

Maxine Waters did it, based upon what I read above.
concordtom
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/24/us/derek-chauvin-stabbed-prison-george-floyd/index.html

Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer who was convicted in the 2020 murder of George Floyd, was stabbed Friday in a federal prison in Arizona, the office of Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison has confirmed.

The attorney general's office, which prosecuted Chauvin in the Floyd case, said early Saturday that it was notified of the assault and told Chauvin is in stable condition.

"I am sad to hear that Derek Chauvin was the target of violence," Ellison said, according to the statement provided to CNN. "He was duly convicted of his crimes and, like any incarcerated individual, he should be able to serve his sentence without fear of retaliation or violence."

Minneapolis agrees to policing plan overhaul forged after George Floyd's killing
"An incarcerated individual" was assaulted at the Federal Correctional Institution in Tucson at approximately 12:30 p.m., the Bureau of Prisons said Friday.

"Responding employees initiated life-saving measures for one incarcerated individual," and that person was transferred to a hospital for treatment, the bureau said in a release. "No employees were injured during the incident," the release said.

The stabbing was first reported by The Associated Press and then The New York Times.

Chauvin was assaulted at the medium-security prison while serving two concurrent sentences in Floyd's murder.

In April 2021, Chauvin was convicted on state charges of second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. He was sentenced to 22 and a half years in prison. Months later, Chauvin pleaded guilty to federal charges of depriving Floyd of his civil rights and was sentenced to 21 years in prison.
going4roses
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Ex cops should have separate prisons imo unless the crimes were against women or child /SA
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
bearister
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I'd say he joined a long line of jailbirds that were set up: Jeffrey Dahmer, Whitey Bulger, Father John Geoghan, etc.
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concordtom
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it's messed up. prison should be able to protect.

Whitey Bulger was killed
Ted Kazinsky and Epstein committed suicide - or did they?
bearister
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Regarding Epstein, tRump was a Lolita Express aficionado, and as POTUS had the most to lose if Epstein got chatty. The Clintons were has beens at the time of his death.
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bear2034
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"Thank you George Floyd for sacrificing your life for justice." ??
 
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